RE: [Chrysler300] Drivability Problems Related To Ethanol?

[<john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

How's this for confusing the issue-
I was unaware that Ethanol raises octane, but I believe it is a moot point.

 

If one pump says 94, and the other says 93, then the one with 94 on it has higher octane, regardless of the amount of Ethanol.

 

If there is new gas with 10% ethanol blend, and it is rated at 93 octane, then that means it was probably about 90 octane when they added the 10% blend that brought it up to 93.  That is still less than 94, so I would think it would still not run better with more advance.  The octane number is the octane number, no matter what the blend.

 

If 10% Ethanol added to 93 octane gas upped the octane to 95 or 96, you could bet that the company selling the product would advertise it as 95 or 96 octane and charge for it!

 

I always set my timing by 'ear' anyway.

Set the timing with your normal choice of fuel, and then go for a drive at part throttle up a slight incline.  If you hear pinging/predetonation, then retard the timing and take another test drive.  If you hear no pinging, then advance the timing and take another test drive.  

The most advance you can get without hearing the dreaded pinging is going to give you the best performance.  It has been my experience that this is always the case, no matter what the octane or blend of fuel.  The best performance is always when the timing is as far advanced as you can get it without the pinging.

In general, the higher the octane, the more advance the motor will take before the pinging starts.

 

I have also been told that the best timing can be measured with a vacuum gauge, and usually occurs when you achieve maximum vacuum at idle, but I have not tried that method, although it may get you in the ballpark before you use the 'ear' method. 

 

This is all based on a normal engine without modifications like water or Nitrous injection, supercharging, turbocharging, etc.

 

I'd really appreciate hearing if this is somehow flawed theory, because I've been doing my tune-ups this way for (gulp!) decades (since the 60's when I couldn't afford a timing light in my teens).  How did I get so old???

 

John

 

PS- setting the valves/lifters on a slant six can be done quite nicely with a matchbook cover, too. :-)

 

 

 

 

________________________________

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony Rinaldi
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:01 AM
To: Ray Jones
Cc: Ray Jones; Chrysler 300 Club
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Drivability Problems Related To Ethanol?

 

You may not believe that ethanol raises octane, but that is what they say it
does.

Ethanol (ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol): Typically fermented from grain. An
octane 
enhancer added at a rate of up to 10 percent in gasoline. Will increase
octane 
2.5 to 3.0 numbers at 10 percent concentration. Ethanol is a fuel
oxygenate.

Source:
http://www.nwicc.cc.ia.us/pages/continuing/business/ethanol/glossary.htm <http://www.nwicc.cc.ia.us/pages/continuing/business/ethanol/glossary.htm> 

You all may be missing the point, no matter who the manufacturer is, the new
gas is blended with up to 10% ethanol.

When we use it, it seems that we may be missing an important point when
setting up our cars for hot weather.

Maybe our cars will run better with the timing ADVANCED to match up with the
more volatile ethanol mixed in.

My car definitely runs better that way, in hot weather, and with 93
whatever. This is at idle and at higher speeds.

Tony

From: Ray Jones <hurst300@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:hurst300%40voltage.net> >
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:29:30 -0500
To: Tony Rinaldi <awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:awrdoc%40yahoo.com> >
Cc: Ray Jones <hurst300@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:hurst300%40arkansas.net> >, Chrysler 300 Club
<Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Drivability Problems Related To Ethanol?

Tony and all;
I'm sorry, I don't believe that the alcohol raises the octane. If it
did, it would be Sunoco 95 or something.
It does burn hotter, which is why alcohol fueled engines have
everything in the combustion chamber chromed, to withstand the heat. It
doesn't help gas much tho.
Bottom line is that when you burn anything you get X amount of BTU's
out of a given amount of fuel. And when you cut the Gas by 10% by
adding Ethanol, you cut the octane, period.
We are paying more for less and having to buy more to go the same
distance, period.
So, in our high performance engines, we just aren't getting the power
(BTU's) we once did. It's just that simple.
You must compensate for the crap we are getting, being sold as gas.
I'm sure this will start arguments, but you can't get out more than you
put in, basic physics.
Ray

On Aug 19, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Tony Rinaldi wrote:

I asked the question from many people:

Why do I have to advance the spark with this new lower octane fuel?

Did not get a reasonable answer, until I asked Thomas White from
Whitehall
Restoration (Hopkinton, MA) when I met him at Carlisle last summer.

He said that the increased alcohol had higher octane and was more
volatile.
The new gas burns hotter in hot weather and would do the opposite in
cold
weather.

So, there it is. Maybe if your car is running like crap, in hot
weather,
when it never happened before:

ADVANCE the timing??

You all play nice now.

Regards,
Tony Rinaldi

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