Re: [Chrysler300] paint

[Ronald Kurtz <mark6268@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello, everyone:

As some of you already know, I am now completing a frame-off restoration of my '64 Newport convertible as a lessons-learned project for the upcoming restoration of E #292. I used a variety of hardener/reducer/finish formulas (acrylic enamel system) to achieve the original finish applied to the firewall, inner fenders, radiator support, under hood and trunk lid, door jambs, etc. The exterior coat was matched to this formula. Looks good.

I hope to bring this car to the June club meet in Mass.

Best,

Ron Kurtz

E #292

 

From: Ryan Hill <ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] paintamel

 

When I painted my '65 300 several years back I did alot of the paint work myself using modern single stage enamel. I've painted several cars myself with single stage enamels and find them relatively easy to mix and spray and they give a very factory look in terms of depth and sheen. (Something I am generally after when I'm restoring a car)   It's important to consider what you want your car to look like when it's complete. Are you wanting it to look absolutely factory correct or to you want it to gleam? It's difficult to get a 'factory' look from a two stage system because you do get a glossy deeper finish. Add to that, many 'restorations' (using the term loosely) often end up getting color sanded and polished as well, you really can't call it a restoration at that point, in my opinion it's more customization. It's not a bad thing to utilize modern technology and techniques to make a cars paint appear nicer, protect better, and potentially last longer; but for a purist, it just may not look right. Along the same lines, if we want to keep these cars correct we'd also skimp on the chrome, not worry about the fit of body panels, overlook poorly finished leaded seams, and install mild steel exhaust systems that would rust out every three years as well.     To get back on point, after having conversations with several experienced painters in recent years I've discovered two stage systems are generally much easier to apply with good results than single stage systems; they're more forgiving and require less skill/experience to acheive great results (dummy proof essentially). The problem arises when a painter who is used to applying a particular product or system tries to use another, such as a single stage. If they haven't got alot of experience with it, they'll be learning (or relearning) to paint on your car. The key is to ensure the painter spraying your car is an expert with the product, equipment, and environment they're working in, that they understand exactly what it is you're wanting in terms of color, shine, performance, etc.,  and that they'll stand behind their work if the result is unsatisfactory.     Ryan Hill  

To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxFrom: ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxxDate: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 10:44:30 -0500Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] paint 



Hi Andy -

 

IMHO, the link applies to all commercial bodyshops, from the 'fast and furious' refinishers to restoration shops to hot rod painters that use three-stage paint.

 

If we're talking about what is correct for letter cars, the shop manual mentions 'baked super enamel' which is unavailable now and was unavailable back in the day. It was only used by the factory when the car was initially painted. So, IMHO, the next best thing is to simulate the look of BSE. An experienced painter should be able to do this thru learned 'tricks' such as adding a bit of color to the final clear coat in a two-stage paint job. Also, lightly buffing the clear coat will give it a nice shine, but it won't make it look a mile deep, as you would see on a corvette.

 

Shops should be able to spray either a single stage or two stage paint. When I had my Plymouth painted, my shop, which does collision as well as restoration work, discussed the advantages and disadvantages of each. They were willing to do either one. In terms of technique, I don't see where there would be a major difference between spraying a single vs. two stage paint. BTW, any shop worth its salt will order fresh paint + supplies for your expensive paint job.

 

For the water-based paints, there may be some differences in application technique. It is the responsibility of the shop to keep up on the latest technology. The owner of my shop regularly attends classes to keep up to date. As for the results, they should look the same as solvent-based paints.

 

Ron,

in somewhat frosty Hartford

----- Original Message -----

From: Andy Mikonis

To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 1:00 AM

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] paint

Ron, that link pertains to "customizers and aftermarket manufacturers" and shops in the "repair and refinish segment" (hi Mike!) who have to be "fast" and "economical." This does not address what paint is appropriate for a 50s/60s Chrysler. Obviously 100% of working body shops today have been working with modern two-stage paints for 20+ years. Every day. Hopefully they are good at it. Most are probably not even set up for single stage paint anymore. And if they are not then they are out of practice shooting it and may not have the supporting chemicals on hand. In which case shooting a car in a single stage is going to be extra expense and hassle for them. So if you bring your 50s/60s Chrysler to a shop like that they are going to try to talk you into the modern paint they are using. I'm with Jett here. Go with an appropriate paint type that looks right. One suggestion: try a shop that also paints commercial trucks, they should be set up for and be practiced with single stage.

Andy M

300 editor

In frosty Chicago

On Dec 12, 2013, at 6:25 PM, "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

>My friend did not store his car the first winter in a "temperature controlled environment" as he did not know he was supposed to.

>He was told that the freezing and thawing temperatures during the winter here in Pennsylvania caused condensation under the paint.

 

IMHO, this is pure BS.

 

Paint delamination can be caused by such factors as incompatible base coat/clear coat, insufficient dry times (probably what happened here) or lack of knowledge of how to work with the new technology. It is NOT caused by storing a car outside or by freezing/thawing temps.

 

Instead of blaming 'wacko-environmentalists', it may be worth reading up on the subject. Here's a good place to start:

http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2012/14/how-waterborne-paint-is-changing-the-auto-industry

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Miklas

To: LUCKYL46@xxxxxxx ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 10:58 PM

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] paint

A friend of mine had his 1965 "A990" Plymouth restored in California 2 years ago. This last year he had to have all the paint stripped off and the car repainted. The car had been painted with the California "eco-paint"/water-paint. My friend did not store his car the first winter in a "temperature controlled environment" as he did not know he was supposed to. The California paint lifted off in chunks over the whole car. He was told that the freezing and thawing temperatures during the winter here in Pennsylvania caused condensation under the paint. The car had to be stripped to bare metal. To add insult to injury, Pennsylvania has adopted this same California enviro-nonsense. My friend had to ship his car to North Carolina to have it re-done with real paint.

 

I'm no expert - just relaying an incidence. Two different body shops concurred that this problem was "possible". I see you are in New York which has the same weather conditions.

 

Jeff Miklas

From: LUCKYL46@xxxxxxx

Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 7:35 AM

To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [Chrysler300] paint

HI GANG. BEEN THINKING OF GETING MY 62 SPORT CONVT. PAINTED, ANYONE KNOW ABOUT  WATER BASE PAINT. ITS NOT A LAW YET IN NY SO I DONT HAVE TO USE IT. ANY PROWS OR CONS.  THANKS  JOE LUCIANO   HOWARD BEACH NY

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