Re: [Chrysler300] Bill Korbel's 300G at Russo Steele

My take on the current market for our letter cars is as follows.

First, one very low auction sale doesn't portend the entire market dropping out. Sometimes it's simply a case of inadequate publicity, resulting in an insufficient number of bidders to achieve a true market value. That is one of the big dangers of a no reserve auction, and is kind of a dream for some people (myself included)--being in the right place at the right time, and getting just a killer deal. I imagine there are many enthusiasts as well as investors/dealers out there who would have gladly paid more than what the car sold for, but just weren't aware of the auction, or didn't bother following it because they assumed such a nice car would get bid up well beyond where it stopped.

That said, there does appear to be a little softening in the market from what I can tell. However, just like most investments, whether it is real estate, gold, stocks or collectibles, the market tends to move up and down. If you're in it because you love the cars, that really doesn't matter much, because the enjoyment comes from the owning--not whether you made a profit or took a loss on selling, or what the car is worth "on paper." On the other hand, if your primary interest is investing, then I guess you have to time your buying and selling, and predict which way the market is going, and whether it will reverse direction.

But, I wouldn't be too quick to assume just because on the surface it appears many people who admire the letter cars may be aging, the demand will eventually dry up. Think about how many new millionaires there are every year--people with the means to spend whatever they want on a collectible which interests them. Surely some of them think a cool, fast, luxurious car from the fifties or sixties is what they would like to own, especially if it is somewhat exclusive due to the rarity. And, the supply is not going to go up appreciably. Maybe a few more cars will be restored, but with such limited production numbers, there can't be but so many. And, as the cost of restoration continues to increase, that is likely to put upward pressure on the price. In my opinion, a car as unique and interesting as a letter car is always going be desirable, and there will always be a demand, but a limited supply, so they will always be valuable.

How valuable, of course, is anybody's guess, which gets back to market timing, investment opportunities, etc. I think for most of us, it's more important to just have fun owning, driving, showing the car or just admiring it in your garage or working on it, than worrying about its present value, which is very likely to change.

Just my 4 cents.

Shannon Steele

300 F convertible still under restoration

On Aug 23, 2014, at 2:58 PM, "Ray Jones 1970hurst@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Guys, there is another elephant in the room here. I have observed over too many decades how the "Collecting" bug works.

When I was a young Hot Rodder, There were many "Old Folks" who had Model T's and A's.
the Generation behind them collected the 30's and 40's cars.
As time when on, the T and A's were being sold as the owners aged out of the hobby and the prices kept coming down.

The 30's and 40's were being made into street rods at an increasingly rate.
My 1st car was a 1933 Chevy Coupe. Next was a 1949 Ford Coupe, then Mercury Convertibles. Later my pride and joy was a 1932 Ford 5 window coupe, chopped, channeled, "Z"ed and sectioned. Weighed 1850 # and had a 850 # 331 Hemi in it and was serious Bad Ass.

Tastes change over the years, I came to the 300's @ 36 years old and have only had Chrysler products in my small stable since.

Point being. like the songs says "Ya gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em"
The only way these treasures of ours will bring any real big money is if there are still people who really love them and have gotten to the stage of life to be able to afford them. that group is getting smaller and smaller, so the value goes down.

So, while we hate to let our "babies" go, for many, now's the time to move them to a new owner, while there are still some who want them.

Mena is having it's annual Rod Run this week end and there are more and more "Rat Rods" in attendance, More and more are liking them, since you can do what you want with what you have on hand and quickly drive an eye-catahcr.

Ray in Hot Mena

On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Michael Moore mmoore8425@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I have a friend who had always been a nut about Lamborghini's. Like all enthusiasts, he became an expert and a huge source of knowledge. In 1986 he said he could do better by using investment money which was in bond funds, take advantage of his Lambo knowledge, and invest in Lamborghinis. Said he could have more fun also. I was impressed with his first buy which was one of only 7 built which were all steel, and neither the owner nor his widow realized it. He inadvertently discovered it when he thoughtlessly used his bondo checking magnet. He bought that car for $25K, spent $25K on the engine and wheels, and sold it a few years later for $400K. That was the first I had run across a serious investor/ hobbyist.

Mike Moore
300H

On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm wondering when this whole cars-as-investments thing started. Late 80s maybe ?

Folks that are in this hobby to make money are gonna 'take a bath' when they try to sell, unless they can find a buyer that still thinks cars are worth the kind of money that they were getting five or six years ago. On the other hand, us hobbyists, whose goals were to restore a car to its former glory and not worry about whether they can make a buck, will not give it much thought.

Ron

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Moore mmoore8425@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Bill Korbel's 300G at Russo Steele

Ron,
Ron Carrini on “Chasing Classic Cars” (Speedvision) has been saying muscle cars are down in the market from their former highs. He is shedding his muscle cars bought for investment.

Mike Moore
300H
On Aug 23, 2014, at 7:00 AM, 'Ron Waters' ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>
> IMHO, Ryan is 'spot on' with his post.
>
> Billy's car was a prime example of a 300G. Yet it didn't attract the interest that you'd expect. Letter cars that I've observed on ebay and in other auctions are not being bid up to the levels that we've seen in the past. My unscientific observation is that the market is softening. From my perspective, this is a good thing, as prices may get more reasonable for us collectors/hobbyists.
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Hill
> To: christopher ; pffkllc@xxxxxxx ; ron300C waters ; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 4:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Bill Korbel's 300G at Russo Steele
>
> Christopher, a car is worth what the market at that time will bear I'm afraid, whether you want to hear it or not. We have the advantage of the internet now that's transformed the car hobby in many ways. This club and others do a great job of promoting our cars and getting the word out to those that are willing to listen. I grew up with Chryslers, I was brought home from the hospital after birth in my father's '65 300 Sport in 1970. (It ended up becoming my first car at the age of 15) If my father and grandfather drove GM or Ford I might have never developed an interest in Chryslers, most of my friends in high school made fun of me for wanting to wrench on my 300….but I did it anyway.
>
> My point, we like what we like and I don't know that future generations are going to like our 300's as much as we do, at least not enough to pay the kind of money that has been thrown around in the recent past. We need to remember also that just because a couple guys with fat wallets and big egos get into a pissing contest at an auction and run the price up on a car, it doesn't mean that there are many more lined up behind them ready to do the same over every other similar car. The same is true on the other end of the spectrum, if nobody in the room or within reach of your advertising is interested in paying much for your car, you won't get much for your car. I figure once all the high rollers have bought up the nice stock at inflated prices, they can either sell (trade) to one another or sell the car at a loss to someone with lesser financial means.
>
> As for the Gull-wing and Healy examples, production numbers really mean very little when it comes to value in my opinion. Price is always largely about supply vs demand, in this case as a ratio of potential interested buyers to vehicles available for sale. If you can increase the interest you will increase the price as long as the supply doesn't increase……it often does when owners see their cars rising in value and want to cash in.
>
> Ryan Hill
>
> To: ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx; pffkllc@xxxxxxx; ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 11:28:10 +1000
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Bill Korbel's 300G at Russo Steele
>
>
>
> Ryan & others - saw this as it too cold o/side on Sat morn here, and I came back inside, and felt a reply/thought was needed
>
> Ryan raises a good point re old cars owned by lots of people getting older, and young nowadays maybe not as into old cars.
>
> But against that is my just posted question - how many good/correct early 300s are there today?
>
> On auction results over the last few months, it seems a mid 50s Gullwing Mercedes is now a million dollar car. OK how many 'factory correct '57 -60 300s are there in the world today versus Gullwings - my guess is there might be more WAY MORE Gullwings.
> Take early 60s Austin Healey - other day there were 140 for sale in the UK at around $100,000 - one hundred and forty !!! OK maybe there is only one Healey buyer left in the UK, and there is s current glut. But how is a Healey worth more than a perfect 300C of 300F - AND THAT BEFORE TRY FINDING 5 perfect 300Cs, Fs etc??!
> (I have my dad's Healey, so I am not knocking them/Healeys)
>
> The money and the buyers are out there - we just have you get our 300ly act together better. Especially if there are not big numbers of good/correct 300s out there - are there maybe only 50-100 restored/correct ones of each early year?! Or what numbers?!
>
> I have a '62 XKE Jag - there were a sensation when released in 1961 - because of 140mph performance, plus handling - and their looks were amazing
> But guess what - a 1957 300C Chrysler has near all this 4 years before - just in a bigger car. But wow you drive a well sorted 300C, and it is just as must an eye opener re how fast and competent it was as the later E Type that stunned the World. US Auto writer Tom McCahill was I think stunned at how good those early 300s were - and he was no fool/mug?!!
>
> I have owned over 100 collector/other good performance cars - my (mainly orig mechanically) 57 300C and XKE roadster are amazing cars for their day, and even today stand tall, are just so good a package versus cars that buyers pay way higher stupid prices for. People rubbish the orig brakes, but my stock 300C will lock/slide the wheels no worries despite the best modern 235 75 15 radials, so brakes were not that bad. And mine are the same linings on the car when I bought it 35 yrs ago!!
> And it runs hard, with that so good auto, that new front suspension - they were the whole package, just like an XKE with radials still is today.
> They (the true 300s) are cars worthy of good prices, so please do not say they are at their best prices ever/now - only reason that will happen is if we do not let others know how good they really are/were, or just say 'sell em off cheap' !??
>
> going outside again now, turning PC off - over to others, hope you got nicer driving weather than here today,
>
> Christopher
>
> To: pffkllc@xxxxxxx; ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 17:39:34 -0700
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Bill Korbel's 300G at Russo Steele
>
>
>
> I'm afraid we'll all have to face it that the upcoming generations just aren't interested in most of these cars we hold so dear. As time goes by there are fewer and fewer people out there looking for these brutes (and others) and at the same time we're increasing the number of quality cars by restoring them. Supply and Demand......the supply is rising and fro what i see the demand is dropping (especially when people who are genuinely interested in owning these cars are hit with the sticker shock of 60 - 200k as an asking price)
>
> If you own these cars as investments, I'd say it's time to sell. If you own them because you love them, keep your foot down on the right pedal and enjoy yourself.
>
> Ryan Hill
>
> To: ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:57:25 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Bill Korbel's 300G at Russo Steele
>
>
>
> A non-reserve car is only worth what the bidders at the auction are willing to pay. It could be that there were only two potential bidders, and one of them wasn't that interested in the car. Had there been 5 active bidders, it might have gone a lot higher. It does, however, point out the risk in putting your car up for auction without a reserve price.
>
> Pete Fitch
>
> In a message dated 8/22/2014 8:35:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>
>
> Is this indicative of a slumping car market ? This was a #1 car. Hagerty website says that a #1 300G is worth about 95K.
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lssimon lssimon@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
> To: Don Warnaar ; Gloria Moon ; Bob Jasinski ; 'Larry Jett' ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Bill Korbel's 300G at Russo Steele
>
> I just went onto the web site of the auctioneer that sold the car in Monterey, CA. It sold for $60,600. There was no reserve on the car at auction.
>
> Steve Simon
> 300 G
>
>
>
> In a message dated 08/21/14 10:01:48 Pacific Daylight Time, Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>
>
> That award was a crowning moment for Billy. I can still picture the big beaming smile on his face as the award was announced. He was just thrilled. Little did we know that he would not be around all that much longer. Glad to have known him and also his father who attended many meets many years ago.
>
> Don Warnaar
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 'Gloria Moon' agmoon@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
> To: Bob Jasinski ; 'Larry Jett' ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300G at Russo Steele
>
>
>
> The Russo-Steele site shows the VIN for the car is 8413 159853. That was Billy Korbel's "Lady G" which took all kinds of prizes at the Lake George meet in 2011. Billy died shortly after the meet. His sister said she had never seen him any happier than he was that night. Everyone at the meet was pretty pleased about it too.
>
> Billy joined the club in 1985. I think he bought the G shortly thereafter and had it fitted with hand controls. Somewhere there's a photograph of Billy, in his wheelchair, with his feather duster tending to his "Lady G."
>
> I hope the next owner cares for it as much as he did.
> 300ly,
> Gloria Moon
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>

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Posted by: Michael Moore <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx>
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