Re: [Chrysler300] Strut / Torsion bars
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Re: [Chrysler300] Strut / Torsion bars





The other thing you can do is tailor behavior with springs / bars - in the 70's, race cars with sway bars typically were adjustable maybe 5 settings via different hole position in arm part of bar. On a road course you tailored behavior for track - different springs and bar settings for individual track. Too much understeer, stiffen rear, too much oversteer stiffen front (grossly oversimplified, but you get the idea).

Cant say about the B, long before my race time. But American cars in general were set up to understeer - safety thought = in too fast, back off and now it steers. But if you were a pro driver, you might want to stiffen rear to reduce understeer (or if you could not do that, put a front bar in and soften front spring rate) or some drivers actually preferred a slight oversteer condition - but it was all based on combination of Engineering calculations and driver seat of the pants in early days and how much the driver liked to hang the rear end out - some were actually fast that way - but i always found the best drivers were those who could go fast without losing traction.

On 6/21/2016 1:29 PM, John Grady wrote:

So forget rear sway bar, on these cars, is your takeaway? Pretty stiff already,  in that sense,  in rear. Nice explanation, thank you, Edward .

 

I have in the past arbitrarily added a leaf to rear spring , but do not go fast around corners..fast around corner in a 300?  Well, not really.  If stiff is  good , more stiffer is better was school of thought. Maybe not so smart move

 

Did NACAR B have rear bar?

 

I once had an AMG 500SL (stick!) gray market car, ~ 85, it had “all the amg stuff” sway bars and links,  big tires etc etc I came roaring around an exit ramp off 495 at about 70, 3rd gear, lifted throttle prepatory to braking, azz came right around like 180 degrees in seconds., tires bounced off curb, mostly injured dignity. And new shorts.  I’ll take stock MB, thank you.

 

From: EMills_ATC [mailto:millserat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:53 AM
To: Rich Barber; 'Bob Merritt'; 'John Grady'; charlies@xxxxxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Strut / Torsion bars

 

OK - so Torsional stiffness Torque/Rotation = KG/L where K = Pi/2 x (Radius)4 ---- (Thats radius to 4th power or squared twice - cant seem to make superscripts work) and G is a constant for steel and Rotation is in radians.

But all you want to know is difference in stiffness, so take G as a constant and just look at difference in R4th/L

And since L is constant here at 40 in, difference in stiffness is simply (.505)4 / (.495)4 or 1.08329 - translated 8.3% difference in stiffness between 300 Sport (or Newport Sedan / Conv, etc.) at 0.99 and H at 1.01

H vs New Yorker 12.8% stiffer

H vs Newport wagon 17.5% stiffer

And by the way, to convert to stiffness you need distance from center of rod to centerline of tire - if you want absolutes, need to go thru more calcs incl dealing with G Shear Modulus and radians.

But unless you are playing with different wheel offsets (going to aftermarket wheels - moving out increases moment arm and increases torsion which effectively "softens" car spring rate - moving in effectively "stiffens" but you get interference) or changing hub dimensions (such as may be if changing to disc brakes, etc).

PS - If you are also playing with Anti-sway bars on front only, it would not be unusual to soften spring rate if increasing sway bar stiffness on that end - otherwise you would need to play with back of car to keep handling balance (oversteer / understeer).

For example, if you add a rear sway bar to a car that did not originally have one, and you do nothing else (no change to rear spring rate or better front bar increase in stiffness to balance handling), be prepared for rear end to come around fast in a hard turn - potentially severe oversteer condition. (Personal experience, lesson learned)

 

Edward Mills Antique Tractors 1930-1960 Antique Cars 1960-1985

On 6/20/2016 1:45 PM, 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] wrote:

 

HD suspension may have been an option on all ’62 Chryslers and included the thicker torsion bars which were standard on the H.

 

Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Bob Merritt' bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:24 AM
To: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; charlies@xxxxxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re[2]: [Chrysler300] Strut / Torsion bars

 

 

AMA specs for 1962.

 

Newport Sedan, hardtop, convertible: torsion bar 40.0" x .99" diameter

 

Newport station wagon: torsion bar 40.0" x .97" diameter

 

Sport 300: torsion bar 40.0" x .99" diameter

 

300H: torsion bar 40.0" x 1.01" diameter

 

New Yorker: torsion bar 40.0" x .98" diameter

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Sent: 6/20/2016 1:12:32 PM

Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Strut / Torsion bars

 

 

To my knowledge the strut rods do not flex or bend or twist at all, they just move a bit in the rubber, to allow the suspension to move up and down , while locating suspension  arm / spindle fore and aft. so that thickness is a non issue. (axial loads only); rubber durometer might change that fore and aft stiffness but not much and only of value for that kind of (rare) loads? —in case you hit a very deep pothole.  ; I do not understand the torsion bars at all. It should be the other way around., stock ? The 300 should be thicker, as  that is (factory) stiffer ; maybe 300 were swapped to smaller in the past? Any chance those numbers are inverted? Or 300 sport was really a very soft car compared to 300H ; which may be true. Interesting info, that is for sure.

 

But I do not know the factory 300H specs. Others will…

 

Why would a Newport be sprung stiffer than a sport?

 

 

See listings of aftermarket / MOPAR performance torsion bars for B and E bodies, as a rough reference? Thicker bars = stiffer suspension , mostly, usually related to holding up heavier engines too. . Might or might not like that impact on ride . ( I like stiffer) but------Not like it is a  race car, screaming around corners on a  NASCAR track? IMHO

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of charlies@xxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 9:55 AM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Chrysler300] Strut / Torsion bars

 






Hi Group,

Last year I installed a factory sway bar on my 62 Sport. In discussion with Dave Dumais at the MaCunngie meet, he said that it was likely that the strut rods on the doner (Newport) car were likely larger dia. Upon inspection, I found that this was indeed true. My current strut rods measure approx. .015 smaller than the Newport.

Also, a measurement of the torsion bars also reveals a difference. My Sport measures approx. 970 dia. and the Newport at approx 1.010 dia. 

So the question is - Would it be worthwhile to swap out these parts to my Sport. I guess I'm wondering what difference, if any, would I notice in ride quality / handling. 

Thanks, Charlie in Ottawa

 

 






 




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Posted by: Edward Mills Antique Tractors <millserAT@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>


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