[Chrysler300] RE: Holding up F&R
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[Chrysler300] RE: Holding up F&R

Hi Rich,


I distinctly remember reading somewhere that Kiekoffer (sp) put ?Imperial
wheels? with large bolt pattern on the race cars, so he either swapped whole
rear axles with center section, (or had some inner axles made for 8 ¾). Or
rewelded center section of wheel which I doubt . Interesting trivia ,some 55
expert may know about what they did. The thing I read mentioned the
advantages of the larger bolt pattern and I think wider base on rim. Whole
wheel is much beefier in photo. . 


This was important stuff as GM center sections on chevy fell apart. A joke
really. The differential pinions on chev through 58 at least would strip, I
think there are only two, and the axles bend, causing wobble, and seal leaks
onto brakes  and wheel bearing issues ---Carl was right on top of that stuff
for sure. I would have put in whole Imperial unit if it were me. Interesting
that Chrysler thought (? Some?) Imperials needed that 9 + one; so that is
not correct, what was up earlier, on ?regular? Imperial ? ; not sure how
that big wheel info fits with info below which seems to say Imperial too,
was 8 3/4 in 55,56 . ( which makes sense) Did it still have big bolt pattern
wheels? Maybe Carl used earlier Imperial, or limo / truck/ HD / export


While on that, I noticed in the Leno thing (really well done by Bob, hard to
do that , live TV ad hoc?been there) he mentioned larger brakes with/ reason
for  61 15 ? wheels, which I do not think is right? We had 12? drums 57-61,
maybe 62 , irrespective of wheel diameter ? But as he said,  the slotted
hubcaps had to help, something I did not realize before. And wider 2.5?
shoes /drums at times . And in 57,8,9 they did have those fiberglass air
ducts pointing at the brakes, a legacy of still fresh in mind 55,56 issues??
as I believe Carl had added  ducting or something to ? back  brakes. On my
recent C resto, we had to fabricate those front air ducts out of metal,  as
fiberglass had disintegrated.  


I have a 60 Buick 225 convert 401 v8, only GM car I really like.  Virgil
could have designed that!. It has those beautiful finned aluminum brake
drums, 12x3; it stops on a dime . Racing does ?improve the breed? .The
comment of our 300 being lighter than a hellcat is wild stuff. All we need
is that engine to beat a hellcat.


Was 8 ¾ new for 55? Might be an important part of the 300 story? 8.25 would
not have made it. 


From: Rich Barber [mailto:c300@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 3:03 AM
To: 'John Grady'; 'Ron Waters'; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Holding up F&R


Diff?s:  The good book (?55 Chrysler Service Manual) shows 8.25? in
Windsor?s, except T&C wagons, 8.75? in NY, 300, Imp, Windsor T&C wagons; and
9.62? in Crown Imp, only.


Brakes:  Windsor?s, NY?s, 300?s & Imperials all had 12? drums with 2? wide
shoes.  All these had 1 1/8? bore wheel cylinders but MC bore varied.  Crown
Imps had disc brakes F&R.


If beneficial to racing and acceptable under NASCAR rules, Carl might have
used Crown Imp rear axles but I don?t recall this being the case in ?55-?56.
I do recall reading that he used Crown Imp brakes on his earlier
Pan-American race Saratoga?s and Lincoln front spindles/knuckles on the
?55-?56 cars as the Lincolns were stronger.  It looks like the front discs
would bolt right on but require wheels with a larger bolt circle.  I also
read that braking was not a high priority as was only really needed in track
emergencies, pit stops and at the end after the victory lap.  


In the front suspension, everything looks about the same across the board
except Imp, Crown Imp and all wagons have a little beefier lower control arm
connections (0.12?/0.20? longer pivot bars & lower outer pins).  These were
not shared on the C-300 although the C-300 springs and shocks were stiffer.
An astute and competitive crew chief would have known these small
differences and acted accordingly.  I doubt tech inspection would have
checked or cared.  I believe the cars were allowed a lot of freedom of wheel
and tire size and even multiple shocks.


BTW, the Crown Imps and C-300?s both had 7-leaf rear springs.



Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA


From: John Grady [mailto:jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 10:48 AM
To: 'Rich Barber' <c300@xxxxxxx>; 'Ron Waters' <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Pinion & Axle seals


Interesting stuff Rich/ Ron . When did the 8 3/4 start up? Great axle
design. And kept getting better. The race 55 or 56 used Imperial stuff I
think. Or some did?or did 300 come with it, kind of implied here?  I thought
it was the Imperial wheels they were after, 5 on 5 or 5.5? stronger. I did
not know the axle ring gear was bigger too, if used? 


I never understood how the Dana ?build it all inside ? design won,  like
Dana 44, or 60, over the 9? Ford (? or 8 ¾ Mopar ) removable ?Chuck? ; Just
seems like a way better way to do that, let alone the Dana ?spreaders? ?
Early Olds was supposed to be very good too ,although I know nothing about
them. Rumor in early fifties was same as GMC truck 


Are 9 5/8 of Chrysler mfg, or third party? 8.25 is marginal in  a big car,
imho. Any relationship to later slant six 8.25 ? (My 67 Dart has that) .
9.25 in later Chrysler pick up  trucks kind of a dog, home of the dodge
clunk. AMC 20 even worse. (now a dana #, in JEEPS ) ; side hearings die at


Seals generally are standard mechanical part items, best place to go is seal
co , with the number stamped right on it ; most have interchange list. I am
partial to SKF,  class outfit, re : data on line. National Seal too 


From:  <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [
<mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of 'Rich Barber'  <mailto:c300@xxxxxxx> c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 6:28 PM
To: 'Ron Waters';  <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Chrysler300] Pinion & Axle seals



My recollection is that there are two different pinion shaft diameters


The ?55-?58 Parts Manual shows the parts numbers below for the front oil
(pinion shaft) seals.  The pinion shafts get progressively larger and the
tightening torque on the flange nut is 240 ft-lbf for the 8.25? gear set vs
250 ft-lbf for the 8 ¾? & 9 5/8? gear sets.  It might be helpful to the
parts-person to indicate the seal for your 300 is also the same one for a
NY, Imperial or a wagon.


663602:  ?55-56 Windsor, except Estate Wagon or ?56 with Power Package
(4-bbl?) 8 ¼? ring gear

1404504:  ?55-?56 Windsor wagon, NY, C-300 & Imperial, ?56 Windsor with
Power Package (4-bbl?)  8 ¾? ring gear

587541: ?55 Crown Imperial (with 9 5/8? ring gear).  Who knew?  Truck diff?


Axle seals are the same across the board for Chrysler sedans with different
seals for wagons and Imperials.  Thicker axles?


Application data is complete for ?55-56 but some is missing for ?57-58 in
this October ?57 manual update.


Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA


From:  <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [
<mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of 'Ron Waters'  <mailto:ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 12:31 PM
To:  <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Rear Pinion Seal



Something that has helped me in the past is being able to provide the
original Chrysler part number. Advance Auto, NAPA, etc has been able to plug
in that number and cross reference it to currently available parts.



----- Original Message ----- 

From:  <mailto:Jonathan.Peabody@xxxxxxx%20[Chrysler300]> Jonathan Peabody
Jonathan.Peabody@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] 

To:  <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 12:11 PM

Subject: [Chrysler300] Rear Pinion Seal


Hello Everyone,

The rear pinion seal took a crap on my 55, so I took the easy way out and
ordered the ?correct? seal from Rock Auto.  Turns out it?s not the right
part and other online stores like Advance and Auto Zone also sell the same
wrong seal (#7216).  The seal had a number of 6845 and the mechanic I had do
it couldn?t get that from anyone.  I called NAPA and they had nothing listed
for a 55 300 at all, but they did end up ordering the seal for a 55 Imperial
and low and behold it?s the correct seal #21336.  The good news is that the
mechanic charged me $100 out the door.  My Dad thought that was pricey, but
he wasn?t the one that was going to be doing the work?  Just sharing in case
lightning strikes twice.  

Hopefully I will see some of you at Carlisle next week.  My Dad and I will
be on the show field. 


Jonathan Peabody

VCA Animal Hospitals

Regional Operations Director MA02

Cell 412-951-0445

eFax 310-979-2435




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted by: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

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