I hope my comments weren't taken out of context. While part of that
younger generation, my cars see road time. Two years in a row I've driven
the 1 of 4Champagne Gold 300C 800 miles round trip to Carlisle. This past
year I put around 1k miles on the 1 of 3 sunburst yellow 300F. I'm
finishing up a 59 NY convertible now, one of nine known to exist and will put it
on the road as well. The only reason I carried a trailer to Carlisle this
year was I wanted to bring more cars than we could drive lol. Brought
Dad's G, my cinnamon G, the C and the F. I picked up an E last year that
needs a little work but will be on the road soon. Most of the times if you
see my cars on a trailer, call the police, they've been stolen haha. The
exception is wanting to show off more than 1. I think these are amazing
cars, I'm truly in love with them. I love telling the stories about them
to my generation. The goal is to open up a forward look museum in my home
town next year, we'll see how it goes.
Mike McCandless
In a message dated 1/25/2017 6:11:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Yes, for me, I'd much rather own/drive a much less expensive clone or
non-original example of a rare car than the real thing. (Maybe that's why
I have a Sport instead of an 'L') The only reason for that is I couldn't
justify all the extra money I'd have to shell out, merely to have
correct parts/options as related to the VIN. There is
often literally no difference other than numbers and most people, even
serious enthusiasts, can't tell the difference. I enjoy cars because
I like their lines and shape, how they perform, and how I feel when I'm behind
the wheel. A car is the sum of all of its parts, it doesn't matter to me when
and where the parts were assembled, only that they were assembled.
John, I like to drive my cars as much as possible and fully intend to wear
mine out myself rather than someone else....I get it too!
Ryan Hill
From: John Grady
<jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: January-25-17 2:12
PM
To: 'Ryan Hill'; 'Rich Barber'; 'Mike Mccandless'
Cc:
kboonstra@xxxxxxxxxxxx; 'John Holst';
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Gooding
Auction Result
You make a very good point
Ryan, about certain motives in the hobby centered around going mainly for the
most money, latest trend, not the car. I never cared what it was worth,
just liked the car--- fixed up nicely is part of that . But now you get
afraid to drive a 300F convert, in case some loser kid keys it etc
I was fixing an F tach, a few
months back, broken glass front (!!??) pointer deranged and loose,
picked up somewhere many years ago . Inside the MOPAR tach part box (replaced?
) I found a a very sad 2 page note (!!) about a guy in Nevada telling
“whoever fixes this” that he had parked his letter car at a service station
for tune up and brakes , to be done next day, ---overnight someone broke into
it and broke every piece of glass and all the dash parts with a hammer. That
kind of thing starts when someone with no grey matter at all gets
envious of a nice car. It really really made me sad. Note was 30+ years old.
Still bothers me.
So , say you have 300F convert
for 100k, and another one with a 440 / 727 in it for 80. Saved 20 k is how I
look at it. But for museum, you need the good original one. To park forever? I
read once of an East Coast guy who had done a perfect 300D , he started
thinking one day that “someone else is going to drive my car around, not
me,(!!!) after all my years of work on it!!” he got in it and went to
California. Paint got chipped etc. I get it. Have not done it…yet.
From:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Ryan Hill ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent:
Wednesday, January 25, 2017 4:36 PM
To: Rich Barber; Mike
Mccandless
Cc: kboonstra@xxxxxxxxxxxx; John Holst;
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Gooding
Auction Result
There a
few things I can say about this with some certainty:
- Nobody knows what the next big
car craze is going to be (barn finds, restored, modified, vintage,
foreign.....)
- Nobody knows if Millennials and
future generations will ever develop the interest and see
cars, particularly classic cars, the way we see
them and want to preserve them in their stock form as many of us
have.
- I think that originality and
over the top factory accurate restorations are in most cases driven by
the quest to achieve the highest value. If the tide changed and owners
saw equal or greater value being the new normal for modified
(personalized) one-of-a kind vehicles I don't think many would hesitate
and build a modified car instead.
- If there is no real demand to
own a letter series car in the future, the prices will continue to drop.
When prices drop, there may be renewed interest but don't be surprised if
those once shining examples of originality end up being modified to the
taste of it's owner or to ensure the safety of it's occupants.
- Mike - These cars are already
being collected as art, fortunately we're still able to drive them as well.
Personally, I'll install an electric motor and a battery before
I turn my cars into an artifact.
Ryan
Hill
I couldn't disagree
more. I'm heavy into the auction scene. When it comes to 300 and forward
look era cars, they still draw excellent money. Citing modified cars as going
for higher, is in regard to muscle cars. However original restored cars
go for a big premium. That's why a 383 original restored cuda went for well
over 100k while hemi clones went for half.
None of the forward
look cars at BJ went under their current real value. The 300C at BJ had quite
a few cosmetic issues and still went for 105 all in. If you try to cite the 59
imperial, the car went fro 1/7th the investment. That never happens in forward
look original restorations.
I'm the younger
generation, in my 30's, there are some of us that love these cars and want to
continue the tradition. Cars will be collected as art by future generations,
not as vehicles to drive. That said, originality will trump
modification.
My point,
exactly. I deeply respect the concept of individuals valuing
originality of rare cars but that value is increasingly unlikely to be the
best from a financial standpoint--in the short term, at least. I still
shudder at slammed, chromed, flamed and supercharged versions of classic
letter cars while recognizing that personalizing automobiles has been going
on for a long time, is a big business, may allow for a safer, more
comfortable relic and is always up to the owner—unless the car can be
classified as a National Historic Treasure and receive
protection.
My loaded 300K ram
convertible was shipped to the John T. Fisher dealership in Memphis in
January of 1964. I have no access to early ownership documents so am
assuming it might have been someone famous such as a country music star
(Elvis?), moonshiner or stock-car racer that bought it. From the
internet: “In
1968, Fisher ran a very successful car dealership. Elvis Presley was among
the customers he sold cars to, but he didn't just cater to the wealthy.”
I created a window
sticker for the car based on Cuzzin’ Gil’s analysis and it toted up a
sticker price of almost $6200. Must have been an interesting person
that bought that Roman Red beauty so many years ago. I’m trying hard
to keep it stock and am really appreciating its simplicity today as I face a
big bucks bill to recalibrate a seat-belt sensor in our
Hemi-Rango.
Rich
Barber
Brentwood,
CA
From:
Keith Boonstra [mailto:kboonstra.zeegroup@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 7:13 PM
To: Rich Barber
<c300@xxxxxxx>
Cc: John Holst
<jholst@xxxxxxxxx>; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:
Re: [Chrysler300] Gooding Auction Result
My observation from watching several hours of B-J
auctions over the past week is that bone-stock originality of all cars - and
trucks - from our era is no longer prized as it once was. Modification for
driving comfort, safety, and updated appearance actually seemed to carry a
considerable premium in the market this time, almost without exception. If
it was tastefully done, mods seemed to bother the bidders not at all. Even
the TV commentators would often be heard to make note of alterations and
comment, "No harm there".
Perhaps it was not a correct perception, but it even
seemed to me there was a line of demarcation in bid prices that had
beautiful as-original cars generally falling under $50K, and nicely done
mild-to-wild modifieds typically reaching over that $50K mark - sometimes by
a huge amount. Bidders also seemed to be reaching for anything that would
set the car on the block in some prominence over its fellow production-line
peers. A history of famous name ownership perhaps - such as the Bob Lutz
claim of this C300 - or a record of gaining racing laurels as this one again
claimed. What commanded the excitement and the dollars of the bidders
in the B-J auction was a singularity that made a car stand where its
comparatives could not. And sometimes it was a high degree of customization
that appealed.
The times they are a-changin'. Somebody ought to write
a song by that name. When I first became interested in the hobby, true
automotive survivorship was the only thing we knew and prized. Then around
thirty years ago - maybe more - folks started creating "as new" show cars,
even from junk yard relics, right down to the inspection stampings. There
was no shame at all - even pride - in having a trailer queen that was not
allowed to have its tires soiled. When I first met up with the 300 Cub
folks, it honestly surprised me that members relished driving their 300s all
over the country - and even beating on them. They said they enjoyed that and
fixing them more than keeping them as ready as possible for a concours. That
was new to me then, but I have to say its been a lot more fun to treat my
old-timers that way - including my C. As long as there is water to clean
them up again, and parts and friends to fix them, I'll keep on enjoying the
pleasure of hitting the road with these oldies - until the day my kids sneak
my license out of my wallet and shred it.
So in a way what we are seeing at the auctions is an
extension of what we in the 300 Club have long felt about our old Brutes. We
want to hit the road and enjoy these old cars while we still can. And like
us, other owners are now looking for eye candy, comfort, convenience, and
reliability in their old-car driving experience. They will even pay what
premium it takes to buy the road-worthiness of a modern
drivetrain.
The ranks of we old folks who are able, and know how,
to fool with these relics of ours are thinning now. If it takes this turn to
modernization to preserve the interest of yet another generation in the
hobby, before the self-drivers give us the boot from our roads, I'm all for
its happening. The alternative can only be internment in somebody's museum
until .......what?
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 7:40 PM, 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Think what it
might have sold for if left completely ’55 stock?? Anyway, this
rising tide should lift all boats (and beasts).
Rich
Barber
Brentwood,
CA
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