RE: [Chrysler300] Transmission Drain Back Information/Bruce Toelle

I think it is almost normal and inevitable that it will drain back, say over a winter. .

It is the external seal work, and quality, ---at throttle position input shaft and shift cable—exactly as Don V said ,--- that determines leak to outside world or not, and how much. . I would not pull apart a trans over pursuit of ‘fixing “ this. You may cause a lot more harm than good in the process. And chances of stopping drain back itself is almost zero. It is zero. How can anyone possibly determine which of 20 possible causes where air slowly got into internal transmission lines , and thus caused it?

Maybe some kind of taller close fitting bushing and better seal rings (viton?, two stacked?? ) can be designed as a retro kit to better keep it in. would have to be done at rebuild? Sealing the shift cable jacket (Gary Goers kit) is job 1, new throttle seal of good stuff job two; ----And, then see where it is getting out? By looking at oil stains?

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 4:32 PM
To: 'Jack Boyle'; 'mark love'
Cc: 'Charles Schoendorf'; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Transmission Drain Back Information/Bruce Toelle

That seems to be the same process I went through. You may have to settle for a 90%+ solution. If drip is inevitable, just pan it and enjoy it.

I always admire a dripless vehicle of any age or brand. Our ’99 4.0 Wrangler with A/T is starting to drip but our ’05 Hemi-rango is still tidy.

Side note: Long-time “INT” officer and “INC” member Bruce Toelle and his lovely wife Maryann are back in their home in Santa Rosa. His neighborhood was not damaged in the fire. They have sold their home there and will be moving permanently to their home in FL soon. They have sold their 300’s.

New address:

BRUCE AND MARYANN TOELLE

48 SAN LUIS OBISPO

FORT PIERCE FL 34951-2815

Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA (Cool, crisp, sunny and trees are already starting to bud out—before they have lost all their leaves.)

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Jack Boyle' jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 8:08 AM
To: 'mark love' <marklove@xxxxxx>; 'Rich Barber' <c300@xxxxxxx>
Cc: 'Charles Schoendorf' <cschoend@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Transmission Drain Back Information

I also have a seeping Powerflite in my C300. I can drive it all summer with no problems or loss of fluid. Then I lose a quart of fluid into the pan on the floor over the winter.

I had a vintage car mechanic attempt to fix the leak(s) but he miss diagnosed it, according to my father anyway. He was a Chrysler dealership mechanic from 1950 to 61 and independent shop from 61 to 68. The mechanic said it was worn shafts, valves, seals, etc. My dad said torque converter seals – according to the symptoms anyway. The mechanic has agreed to re-fix it at no R & R cost, just parts.

So it’s off to the torque converter rebuilder? …next winter.

…Jack

Jack Boyle

(913) 544 4650

Enjoying the same C-300 since 1967

IMG_0623 small

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of mark love marklove@xxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 8:36 AM
To: Rich Barber
Cc: Charles Schoendorf; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Transmission Drain Back Information

Ditto from Don Verity.

Hi Mark,
Same problem, later 727 too. There really is no real solution other than to make sure the seals are good, drive the car, or put a pan under it while parked. These are not new "sealed for life" cars. They are old, and had these problems for a long time. Unless it is pouring out the front seal while it's running, it's not that big of a problem.
Don

On Dec 4, 2017, at 6:43 PM, Rich Barber <c300@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Absolutely does apply. Same basic reason, same messy results—probably some different mechanism internally but worn and aged sealing surfaces would be the likely culprit. Our ’55 Powerflite was like a black hole, into which pour money, to stop leaking. Shoulda boxed it up and sent it to Don. My Fluid Mechanics professor stated the First Law of Hydraulics: Hydraulic Systems Leak.

Rich Barber

Brentwood CA

From: <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Schoendorf <mailto:cschoend@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> cschoend@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 4:56 PM
To: <mailto:marklove@xxxxxx> marklove@xxxxxx
Cc: <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Transmission Drain Back Information

Thanks Mark. Do you, or does Don or anyone out there know if the same applies to Powerflite ?

Chuck

On Dec 4, 2017, at 11:40 AM, <mailto:marklove@xxxxxx> marklove@xxxxxx [Chrysler300] < <mailto:Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Good Morning; we were reading about transmission leaks over the last couple of weeks. I contacted Don Verity of the 300 Club International to help in the discussion. He is the 'go to' guy on this stuff. Having now read it, I have some work to do on mine. Happy tails.

Hi Mark,

On Torqueflite Drain Back.

What is actually draining back is the torque converter. What happens is that the converter holds about 2 thirds of the fluid in the transmission. That equals about 4 quarts above the center line of the converter. This is quite a lot of weight pushing down. All transmissions have a vent to allow for expansion and contraction of the fluid as it heat up and cools off. Any place that air or oil can leak through a seal, will allow the converter to slowly try and equalize it's level. There are numerous places on the trans where air can leak by, including the pump gears (to much clearance), drive sleeve seal, input shaft seals, regulator valve body, and stator support seal. The transmission case eventually gets over filled, and fluid try's to find it's way out wherever it can. This usually ends up being the kick down shaft seal, or the shift cable. The shaft seal is not very big, and shaft is constantly moving back and forth with throttle position. To compound things, the shaft goes through a bore in the valve body that usually gets loose with age. This causes the shaft to egg out the seal over time. The best way to keep the fluid where it belongs and to make the seal last longer, is to first make sure the steel washer is on top of the seal under the kick down lever. This washer helps to keep dust and dirt out of the seal. Also make sure there is minimum up and down play in the shaft when you tighten the clamp bolt. Pulling up lightly on the shaft while tightening the bolt will keep play to a minimum and help keep the shaft stable, just make sure it does not bind through it's range of travel. The shift cable O-ring can leak, and also the casing itself, if it is damaged. The oil pan is usually not a problem if the gasket surface is straight, and a quality gasket it used. I never use any sealer on the gasket, and torque to 12-13 foot pounds. With a cork gasket I use less, usually around 10-11. The main way to combat drain back of coarse, is to drive the car regularly.

Don

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Posted by: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

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