RE: [Chrysler300] Pointless

["Carl cbilter@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Rich et. al.   -  
RamK is same setup as J.  I have a Pertronix 1382 in my J since 2010  (Pertronix II???).   1382 is the model for dual point dizzys.  I don’t know anyone else currently running a Perrronix in a J so it may be the only one, IDK.   It works great.   I wrote this up in detail back in 2010-11 but will summarize again.  

As John said nothing better than the stock distributor and that it the advantage of the Pertronix if you don’t like messing with points (I don’t).   It works fine with a stock coil (just check the impedance).  Yes, you leave the ballast resistor in the circuit.   The Pertronix seems “forgiving” and works over a wide voltage range.   It’s a rather simple device actually.   I spoke with the tech guys at Pertronix back in 2010 and covered all this stuff with them.  Most Pertronix failures are the result of DIY guys like us screwing up the installation.  The only thing non-stock looking is the extra power wire from the distributor.   No, you don’t need a spare.  We drive modern Mopars  which are totally electronically controlled and don’t worry about breaking down.  And for all I know they probably have cheap Chinese capacitors somewhere in the PCM or TCM.    Maybe I’m living on the edge, but I worry more about some other 55+ year old part failing than the electronic ignition..  

Vacuum advance is retained.  J/RamK doesn’t have huge amount of vacuum advance in stock curve.    Dwell is different.  Performance is no better than points, but no maintenance.  Timing will be altered dramatically, needs to be reset, may require moving all the plug wires one tower over (I had to do that).  Wiring diagram comes with the kit or look online. 

Mopar Performance, previously Direct Connection, used to be good (have no idea about current products), but you have ugly non stock control box and no tach drive.  I started using the Direct Connection electronic ignition in 1983.  Never a failure.  Had that unit on an Imperial from 1983 to 2012 no issues whatsoever.  The only failure I had once was from a cheap aftermarket Mopar control unit.  

Carl B.  


From: John Grady jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 5:35 AM
To: Rich Barber
Cc: mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx; mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Pointless

  
Rich , very good questions. On some cars( F I know)  the ignition / accessory power goes dead when cranking and the only power feed to ignition is the ballast jump wire . (Trying to unload battery during crank ) . If you connect that wire together to ignition wire for some electronic  thing it will try to power Whole car  through that wire by back feeding the whole accessory / ignition circuit . Ignition Switch contact —and that wire ( S2) not made  for 30 + A will fry eventually . If you hook like stock , you can blow your new electronic switch ( or maybe not) as current will be very high ( 2x normal) with no ballast  R during crank .. That is ok with points. ( hotter start spark) The correct answer is a relay driven by that start wire that transfers electronic ignition source power to 12v hot during start and  returns it to ignition power after .  Doing “something else “ is a cobbled up thing

..after market stuff in general not designed for that start circuit arrangement . Another reason to stay stock .  
 I do not see how anyone can “rebuild “ a vacuum advance .. it is crimped solid . all around . Someone like Philbin May have old stock cans, but rubber is old too , but that is better than a torn one. Why I was chasing a new in production one to adapt to iron 300 distributor . . 
I know the 300 iron distributor is for sure a better device than any aftermarket thing . The problem is the skill needed to set up right — and not  add a ball of tape to flex wires etc , and mis adjust dwell  or dual Point overlap . Or put in a nice Chinese intermittent aluminum capacitor. The ball bearing mount of the vacuum Motion in those keeps the gaps correct as vacuum works . Unlike later ones.  I am not sure what aftermarket has for that , or what advance curve you get — .you do not know either . Probably SB Chevy .  Plug wires need ohmmeter check . 40 k ohms or less and ngk iridium plugs . Check capacitor with analog meter ( dvm useless)   It should swing up and return to infinity on 100k scale . As stated earlier all the 140 mph records and all the 56 racing wins were with points. And factory curves. The problem is then -rather obviously - not the points, it is skill to get it right with good parts. It is not as easy as it looks. You introduce a  3 rd party thing and it’s own problems , but may work ok too . That is ok . Important — Use the coil they tell you to . Not low ohm or high output. Electronic spark performance ( non CD) is Not better  than points ,— but  maybe far less subject to foibles of a “golden screwdriver “ mechanic  that is  not a  golden screwdriver at all —- . ... or else it would be working right. As it did in 56 .  Imho  . 

Electronic eliminates the skill variable , a good thing for Chrysler and GM . And owners. 

By the way not against electronic ( to me hot setup is 4 pin HEI no ballast , GM 90’s truck EI coil and later mopar reluctor distributor )   . Just hate to see a great thing engineering wise like the stock 300 dual point distributor panned . I love the thing , as an engineer . Beautiful . 
Sent from my iPhone not by choice 

On 20 Jun 2019, at 8:20 pm, 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It would be helpful if someone in the know would answer these questions:
• What is the difference between Pertronics I, II and III? 
• Which is most appropriate for our 413's (with & without rams)?
• Is it necessary or advisable to replace the coil?  
• If so, is there a specification for the new coil?
• Is the start/run configuration including the ballast resistor retained or modified?
• Is the vacuum advance retained?
• Is it advisable to carry a spare?
• Is there a Pertronics wiring diagram available online?
 
Separate issue:  Can vacuum advance cans be rebuilt?  If so, who does it?
 
Rich Barber
Brentwood, CA
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of 'mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx' mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:36 AM
To: mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] New Electronic Distributor - Without Points - 413
 
I have no idea if the Ebay sample is of good quality, but my recent experiences with Pertronix units suggest to me that it's an excellent conversion if your distributor is in good condition.  The unit enables you to retain all of the original appearance except that there will be 2 wires from the coil to the distributor instead of only one.
  In the past I've heard of some reliability issues with those for some applications, but I believe that those problems (if they existed) have been appropriately addressed.
  In any case I do recommend that you replace the vacuum advance diaphragm if it is more than 8 years old.  It's not a lot of fun to dig deep enough to do distributor work on most of our 300s.  I converted my '55 12 years ago (also a 12volt electrical conversion) using a MOPAR conventional electronic system that included a distributor from a 318 engine (slightly modified for hemi instal), an added ballast resistor, and the ignition electronic control unit all removed from a 70s vintage Dodge pickup..  It has been trouble-free for me for 30k miles, but because of the simplicity of the Pertronix system that is what I would use if I were doing the conversion today.
 
---------------mg
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Posted by: Carl <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx>
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