Ron,
I cannot change the full length of the wire unless I want to unwrap the entire left side of the dash harness. I will use a “J hook” splice on each wire, solder them and slide heat shrink (two layers) over the splice.
Since I need about 6 inches of wire, I was thinking of using an inline fuse for the splice. Yes, I would have to take the drivers side kick panel off to get at it if it blew. But we are just talking about the rear window.
The breaker obviously did not do its job. The thing I do not like about these kind of auto re-setting breakers is that wires can still fry as this did. The breaker just keeps opening and closing and the wire keeps shorting and shorting.
I suspect that once it got hot enough to create an OPEN on the circuit that the breaker then went back to a normal state as the door switch still worked even with the wires fried.
There is a 4-inch-long burn mark on the insulation on the kick panel and it came very close to the cardboard that holds the door windlace. If that cardboard had gone up the car may have gone with it.
That is why slow blow fuses down stream of the automotive breakers are not a bad idea. I may breadboard some of the auto breakers and try different slow blow fuses and see if I can come up with a good combination that will not blow too
quick but if it takes a repeated hit it will.
On the question of the door switch I was referring to the modern aftermarket replacements that are for the 1960’s Chryslers or an actual NOS unit.
James
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Ron Waters
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 14:23
To: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} RE: splice point 300K window power feed
James –
#1 – No. Circuit breaker should do the job. Also, if fuse blows for whatever reason, you’ll have to remove door panel to replace it. Where were you intending to install
the fuse ?
#1A – Replace full length of wire. Don’t splice.
#2 – Did you supply a photo of the melted door light (A-post?) switch ? Either way, use an original. Don’t jury-rig.
Just my 2 cents.
Ron
From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2023 4:27 PM
To: Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>; 'John Grady' <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: 'Chrysler 300 List Server' <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} RE: splice point 300K window power feed
Back to the point guys….
What do you think about:
- Use an inline fuse on one or all three wires to the left rear window, since I have to splice in new wire no matter what.
- Since the back edge of the door light switch is also melted, I do not know if it was the chicken or the egg that started this mess, do I replace with an NOS switch or use one of the
modern replacements?
I plan in using some split tube from the “T” in the main harness back to into the driver’s side rear window cavity and then I get around to pulling the rug I will do the same down the passenger wide as well.
Speaking of windows, the passenger door gearbox is screwed up. It has a kludge repair as the mounting bosses are broken. I need to find one that is in excellent condition.
James
LOL.
Where there is temperature fluctuation or exposure to the elements, duct tape doesn’t stand a chance. It will shred or get gummy. Not good. But to keep a rubber conduit
(bicycle tube in this case) from opening up in a dark area where temperatures are relatively constant, it does the job.
Ron
Hi Ron ,
I thought it was for chevy guys to fix valve cover leaks and leaks around windshield . I stand corrected ! Why silver .
They sell white duct tape now too !
When I used it on ducts or insulation on pipes it soon unsticks , unwinds and turns to a yellow dust where glue was .
So building codes now won’t allow it .. on ducts ( bath vents) . They
sell a fancy metal faced tape for that use now with all the approvals , inspectors look for it . Has to be metal duct too , no more of those fragile 6$ white plastic spiral hoses you used to see on dryers . Same rules apply there .
Anyway the shiny chrome look of that is just made for the Honda guys with big soup can exhaust , — fixes minor body rust and holds soup can on .
Try real 33 tape , not junk,,you will be amazed . But all these flexible tapes are no better against sharp edges than the wire insulation is , but hard plastic flex tube is better , ought to ride on high part
of convolution , protect the wires and looks ok . Probably why they made it convoluted instead of smooth ? adds 1/8” space to sharp edge? .
Hey John –
Yes, duct tape. I found that it will stick better to the tube rubber (and to itself) than other tape I have used. I wrap it around the circumference at about three
inch intervals. So, yes, there *is* a good use for duct tape ! 😊
Ron
it is not a hole at all , it is a big punched out opening in sheet metal into the body cavity , 4-8” across , but it has a sharp edge all around hole from punching .
That is what is sneaky, it looks ok no problem , plenty of room , but wires will rest on the very sharp edge .
why you need a sleeve like convoluted tubing . Why OEM use that stuff now on new cars . And already slit, it snaps solidly over .
Hey , Ron , come on !!! Duct tape ? arrgh
You should find in any good Auto parts store, Rubber grommets. Or in an old lumber or hardware store.
Look for those stacks of drawers with small items in them, Grommets of all sizes, to fit any hole are available.
Cut through the grommet and work around the harness and into the hole.
Hi ,
that failure of a wire crossing into the inner spaces of our body sheet metal over a sharp punched factory edge has taken out an F harness and a G harness in my personal experience .. the whole harness in that case.. all of it- !
as the heavy feed wire to the breakers located in drivers kick panel is unfused battery power .Large wire 10 or 12 of course it is the one all by itself that matters and shorts out ! Twice in two different cars Harness melts under dash
and out to starter relay a fused together mess.
This is really a major design fault , in all our cars . And restorers sometimes do not position the few added factory sleeves ( in the case of these F and G ) on the wire correctly so as to protect the vinyl wire covering , at the sharp
place , but they slide down the wire . They also crumble , not good stuff .
All that aside , when restoring our cars , anyplace you see a wire or bundle passing in or out of a body cavity , put a piece of that convoluted plastic tubing with a slit down the side ( see Waytek web site for good stuff , high temp
has blue or grey stripe on it )-/ or ebay for low price and ok when not under hood .) You need 1/2 / 3/8 and 3/4 . cheap .
The very sharp edge will over time due to vibration cut into the vinyl wire , soon a dead short .Use real scotch 33 tape to hold in place . Other “ electrical tape” is junk turns into gummy mess .
You don’t need added fuses , the breaker works , for all the wires ( or car would have burned ) but the cure really is to protect any wire crossing a sharp edge into body cavity . Power seat feed has this issue too .
Another cure but not preventative is a fusible link from Ford cars at the main car power take off connection to battery at start relay .
There are two sizes of those use larger one, just in case a major wire shorts , especially ammeter area .
Good thing you found this …
.
Hi Ron,
I sent a follow up response, and it went into a black hole…
I pulled the kick panel and found a set of fried wires. I also noted the base of the wire going into the door light switch was a melted mess, but it was still working as was all
but one of the other three windows.
The breaker is there and is working but it is upstream. It probably tripped until the wire melted. I also probably had a small voltage drain as well.
The wires run from the breaker out to each of the individual switches other than the drivers master switch. The melt down happened between the three wires and the steel webbing
in the kick panel. An abrasion failure?
I will have to splice in some new wire. Perhaps I will splice in three inline fuses.
James
James –
While I can’t speak for a 64 Chrysler, I know that on my 55 (Desoto) and 59 (Dodge), both power window cars,
there are circuit breakers behind the kick panel to prevent a shorted wire from turning into something more serious. Did someone remove or bypass those on your car ? What does the power window schematic show ?
Ron
Well,
I found the problem quick. As soon as I removed the left kick panel. I could see burned fiberglass.
It looks like the door switch shorted out and the three wires to the rear for the local window switches fried. Or it may be that the three wires to the local window switches fried,
and the metal got so hot that the wire to the door switch melted and grounded.
In any event, I may consider splicing these wires with some in-line fuses and replacing the door jam switch with a new one.
I do wonder if this was a mechanical abrasion issue, a door jam issue or a wire overload issue. Perhaps I should put in a new 30 am breaker or change it to a fuse…
In any event a fun mess.
James
Anyone know off hand the location of the W-2, W-3, W-4 splice point on the window lifts?
My driver’s side rear switch will not work at the window. The master at the driver’s door works fine. I checked the switch, and it is fine. The center feed to the switch is dead.
That wire on the schematic looks like a factory furnace splice someplace. It is after the circuit breaker. Before I go hunting for it, I am hoping someone can tell me where it is
to save me some time. It is also possible that all three of the wires are ring terminals onto the circuit breaker, but I have not gone hunting yet.
All the other switches are fine. I am assuming a wire problem someplace.
Thanks, James
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