Steve,
With all due respect, your use of the word “hate” about members of this Club sharing concerns of government intrusion is misplaced and inaccurate. The article I posted is a warning to Club members that our right to pursuit of happiness is being seriously threatened. We are all car people here. Yes, the future holds promise for new technologies, electric cars etc., but that is not the reason we are in this club and on this forum. From our Constitution:
“The Club exists to collect and publish information on these vehicles, to encourage enjoyment of these vehicles, and to hold meetings and events to further benefit these vehicles.”
I live in California and I deal with the challenges of one sided politics here. Vicki and I have deep roots that are not easily severed so as to provide an easy exit from the state. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Like the canary in the coalmine, or the frog in the hot water feeling the heat before it kills him, this forum provides a means of sharing with fellow members that our enjoyment of these vehicles is being seriously threatened. What happens in California has a way of traveling eastward, good and bad.
I very much appreciate your input and contacts you have with CARB members. Sharing information gleaned from your phone conversations with CARB members is appreciated, but I live by the adage “trust but verify”. If you choose to call that “hate speech” that is your right. It does not however, alleviate my concerns, or verify my trust that the ability to use, operate and enjoy the use of my 300G as more than a static display is not threatened.
300LY,
Bob Jasinski
Danville, CA
Bob Jasinski
331 La Questa Dr.
Danville, CA 94526
925-831-9727 home
925-366-0035 cell
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of rob bohuslav
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 11:04 AM
To: Steve <saforwardlook@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx>; Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx>; Bob Jasinski <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Bad news
"I strongly doubt that any specific vehicle technology will be banned in the market,....."
On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:33 AM Steve <saforwardlook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
To my knowledge John, the performance vehicles you have highlighted have not been outlawed. Yes, the California ARB is promoting a movement to more climate friendly vehicles through the use of renewable fuels such as electric vehicles with a goal of electricity production from wide scale use of mostly renewable energy in the future. Renewable energy mostly means reliance on increased solar and windmill based technologies with other such means being available in the more distant future more than likely such as fuel cells powered by hydrogen that many manufacturers are pursuing for the more distant future. Gasoline vehicles didn't replace the horse and buggy all at once either - it took time.
Also the performance vehicles you highlight will be eclipsed in the not too distant future because incredible performance is much more easily achieved by EVs with one or more electric motors that deliver performance that is unbelievable if you have ever experienced it such as in the Tesla model S Plaids. New battery technologies are being worked on at present such as solid state ones that will be much cheaper, durable and more quickly charged as technology improves. I strongly doubt that any specific vehicle technology will be banned in the market, rather improvement in propulsion sources will over time obsolete them instead as happened at the last turn of the century.
On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 6:22 PM John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 7:02 PM Steve <saforwardlook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Nick for your balanced reply - I did just get off the phone with my contacts at the Air Resources Board and the purpose of the study remains the same - to get a better idea of the contribution of older cars to the overall air quality in this state and to possibly take more of the older vehicles out of our Smog Check program as the State has done in the past. Many Smog Check stations in the state are also getting out of the dynamometer emission testing business and will now only test cars with OBD II systems that are model year 2000 and later and are all equipped with OBD II. All cars built before 2000 model year with or without OBDII still have to pass a dynamometer test, and those owners are now having a harder time to even find a station that will do the testing. Those stations don't want the hassle of keeping their dynamometers well maintained and the emission measurement equipment also maintained which means using calibration gasses that are up to date and their emission analyzers also well maintained. They make much more money on 2000 and newer vehicles where all they need is to check the OBD II system for faults and if there are none, they pass and make a $50 or higher profit in just a couple of minutes with no dynamometer emission related use at all in their shops anymore.
The other input I received from the person I talked with that is higher up in the organization is that decisions to implement "No Drive" zones are typically made by cities themselves, not the Air Resources Board and that many times even those decisions might well be targeted at reducing traffic congestion in those zones - for example, the city of Santa Monica was considering such a restriction to reduce the traffic congestion there when beach goers and diners at restaurants on the ocean piers are big draws to that city but such a restriction was never implemented.
Yes, the ARB was the leader in implementing ever increasing improvements in tailpipe emissions from new cars and was able to take that lead because under President Reagan, there was a carve out in vehicle emissions for newer vehicles in California to adopt stricter emission standards than the other states because of their much more polluted cities than the rest of the nation - usually the Federal EPA adopted California tailpipe emissions standards about 4 years after California led the way. The air in California has been very clean such that complaints about smog are virtually non-existent for years now. The ARB technical staff was comprised of top notch engineers that came from the top colleges in the nation and also with ex-auto industry engineers as well. The technology present on today's most modern vehicles has their fingerprints all over them.
What is it about the Dodge Charger and Challenger Hellcats, for example, that you find so terrible wherein the precise fuel control, good efficiency (in terms of miles per gallon) for the power they put out don't you like??? And given these relatively sophisticated technologies now in use that perform so well also are very clean in terms of tailpipe emissions and relatively easy to diagnose with the help of OBDII and standardized vehicle connectors that help technicians to diagnose any problems within those vehicles. OBD II was invented by the ARB alone with no input from EPA and that was not an easy job since the auto industry fought like Hell to not allow it to be implemented but ultimately lost. The auto industry hated that regulation because in order to keep the check engine lights off and not turn customers away, they had to make more durable cars and that cost them some money. But now we have many vehicles that can go 200K miles before being retired and not 100K as was the norm. What is so evil about that?
I find all this hate misplaced towards that agency since their leadership and grasp of engineering technology and staff that used the same modeling sources that the auto industry sources used themselves to develop precise models of engineering improvements before developing and implementing them and setting new vehicle requirements for both emissions and powertrain efficiency and performance.that owners would appreciate as well.
Personally, it seems folks these days find it easy to hate rather than rationalize and study the real facts before making their minds up about matters based on misleading or false information that seems to be thrown at us non stop these days.
Steve Albu
On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 12:08 PM Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Don't panic!
CARB does these studies from time to time and each time they find that collector cars contribute so little to pollution in the state that no action is necessary. This is totally separate from having emission free zones in cities.
They are actually planning to roll back the biennial emissions testing for older vehicles. Currently vehicles that are 1975 and older are not subject to the smog testing. That will change to a newer year. At one point it was supposed to automatically change each year.
The difference this year with the CARB study is that social media has turned this into a freak out session through the classic car community, encouraging owners not to respond to the study. They know how many classic cars are registered in the state, if you don't tell them how many miles you drive them, they can, and will, assume that you are driving them more than you are.
Nick
On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 8:12 AM Bob Jasinski <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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While I agree with all the great things you said about OBDII and the technology in the modern Gen III Hemi equipped modern cars that make clean power with good mileage and little polution, it still didn't stop the bureaucrats from outlawing these wonderful ICE products.
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