Re: ammeter bypass/ Wiring Circuit

Hi Neal! Thanks for sharing your concerns. Fortunately I studied Electronic Technology in HS ( 4 yr special program) so I am very familar with 'Old Cars' Electrical circuitry, which is very basic and was essentially unchanged from the1920s & 1930s. As a side note, until 1960, despite thex1950sxsheet metal changes, most manufacturers were using frames & running gear designs of the 1930s, except for lowering the floorboards and giving us 'Transmission Humps & driveshaft tube upside down Us in the rear. My 1936 Packard 120B Straight 8 Coupe ( rare, 5 left of 4000 of 70000 made) has,a totally flat floor- front & rear.

Generally, Most manufacturers took the full output of the Electrical/Charging system and ran that fat wire directly to the ammeter, then from the ammeter to a fuse box for sub component Electrical distribution. This is the basic ammeter circuit.

Now on Aircraft, Some manufacturers ( Rockwell for one) used a 'shunt' circuit, which parallel the main Generator/ Alternator output and fed that amperage to the ammeter as they didn't want full charging amperage in the dash/ instrument. Aircraft circuits rarely use fuses, they use popping circuit breakers, as a Safety issue.

On my 61 Lancer, which has Chryslers early alternator but separate voltage regulator, Chrysler actually used two 30 amp click off circuit breakers, one in the wiper motor circuit and the other in the rear glass window. MOTOR circuit.

In tracing the history of my A100 pickup, which when I bought it, had a totally fried wiring harness- Engine Doghouse to under dash - & probably the reason it sat in the farmers field ( had lots of mud underneath).

Unerappingvthe factory Electrical tape & then stripping every burnt wire from every other burnt wire, ( 3 weeks) I found the source if the Electrical fire:

There was a 'subharness' of 2 wires, with a +/- plug feeding same. These wire came from the Alternator ( on the engine in the Doghouse) of the Slant 6 up to the Voltage Regulator, which was ( factory stupidly) mounted next to the fuse box + input wire - from the ammeter in the dash instrument cluster. Then the 2nd wire from the Voltage Regulator ( in that sub circuit) went back to the Akternator field wire - back on the Alternator of course mounted to the Engine. The Electrical fire problem originated because the Voltage Regulator wire Shorted behind the dash atcthexFuse Box and took a GROUND path BACK THRU THE ENTIRE FAT HARNESS to the Engine in the Doghouse.

The Voltage Regulator should have been mounted ( as I did adjacent to the Alternator IN THE DOGHOUSE).

I Share all this to say, The Alternator + output Wire needs to be WELL INSULATED AND mounted ( with insulators)securely AWAY from any other wires and any other places it could Short to Ground...

Now- This Alternator output wire feeds one side of the Ammeter. Note how the Factort ring terminal is additionally insulated at the ammeter gauge connection terminal. Also it needs to be securely 'Pathed' away from the dash metal and is usually rubber grommeted thru the firewall.

Now as to a Voltage gauge- Basic connections are:

1- Any battery + ( easy to tap Cigarette lighter +) AND

2- Voltmeter to Ground. Make a good Dash connection. I drill a small hole and use a tiny screw & nut with 'internal star washers- on both sides of a well crimped Ring terminal thus keeping the new under dash Voltmeter circuit TOTALLY INDEPENDENT of any other circuits.

Many modern cars use the same fuse for multiple components. Cheap.

Our 96 Caravan for example, stupidly has Wipers, Power Door locks and power seat adjustments motor on same fuse. The15mph doorblock trigger screwed up and kept locking us out. Can't leave fuse out because then you don't have wipers. My suggestion on our old cars IF you have to renew any Electrical circuitry is create an INDEPENDENT CIRCUIT.

I added under dash lights, backup lights, & extra 12v sockets ( for cell phone charging) to my 63 Dart. All on Seperate INDEPENDENT Circuits. Each individually fused.

Hope this helps. Feel free to call me 410-302-3930

Sherman

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 11:21 PM neal zimmerman <neal.zimmerman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

OK so I am still not grasping this.Please remember I don't really know what I am doing , I have zip in electrical skills so please talk to me like I am an idiot.
If I do the bypass , ala MAD, then I have a dead gauge in my dash. Not the happiest thought .
1 ) How can I still have an ammeter?
A) Can I  somehow use the factory ammeter safely? How/where would I do this?
B) Or maybe just an aftermarket one? And how/where would I wire this in? Nothing digital.

2) If I want to additionally run a voltmeter, how /where does that get wired in? I want to run a traditional voltmeter, nothing digital

PS- I have all new M&H wiring harnesses.
Neal

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 8:03 AM Jim Jablonski <groovinjim@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Gary, I wish I had a nickel for every time someone asked why I have a “Ford” starter relay in my trunk!

😃

Sent from Jim’s iPhone

On Friday, August 20, 2021, 7:02 PM, glpavlovich@xxxxxxx wrote:
I agree Jim. I read a great deal of electrical information from Mark at MAD Electrical and he is right on target with helpful remedies to the weak links in our system. I incorporated his recommendations along with battery relocation to the trunk & remote solenoid so the starter wire is only hot during cranking (every “touch” that starter terminal while working on the chassis components and have it arc?)…as well as relays, fusible links, SXL wiring (crimped/soldered/Polyolefin heat shrinked…) distribution terminals and the like. Also used redundant grounds with a ground terminal block in the engine bay…used 1 – 0 double-jacketed fine strand welding cable in rear & up front for a complete grounding “loop.”   Mark is always willing to take calls to help all of “us” with improving our Mopar wiring.
Gary Pavlovich

From: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Jim Jablonski
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 3:12 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: ammeter bypass

The two concepts introduced by Mark at MAD are not myths:

- “Thermal Runaway” from resistance is real. Ask anyone in Michigan who drove a Mopar back in the day as a daily driver in the winter with heater, wipers, lights, etc. going. Burned out bulkhead terminals were a rite of passage
- The introduction of relays to avoid running voltage in real time throughout the chassis was a design improvement that eventually all manufacturers went to - Mopar was just remarkably late to this party despite their obvious innovations in many other areas

Now, can you keep your old cruiser 100 stock? Of course. But if you add power circuits and / or want to generally upgrade your system, eliminating the amp gauge and heavy power wire would be job 1.

Just my opinion, of course.

Jim

Sent from Jim’s iPhone
On Friday, August 20, 2021, 11:45 AM, neal zimmerman <neal.zimmerman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Wondering how many of you have done this? I have read the MAD electrical article a few times, but then surfing around on the internet some people say it's all bunk, or it's not necessary on the early mopars.
I don't know what to make of it anymore.
Neal ZImmerman, Eugene oregon
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Please address private email -- email of interest to only one person -- directly to that person. That is, email your parts/car transactions and negotiations, as well as other personal messages, only to the intended recipient. Do not just press "reply" and send your email to everyone using the general '62-'65 Clubhouse public email address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine-tune the content signal to Mopar topic. Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
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1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
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1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
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