Re: history question (Warning - Long Rresponse)

[Bob Fortson <bobt1885@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

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So Neal   ..........any MORE questions ?

Thanks Bill...I printed out for future  bets and trivial pursuit use !

Bob Fortson  (still need 63 Ply. park brake release knob assembly and wire )
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Watson" <wwatson5@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: history question (Warning - Long Rresponse)


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Chrysler was the successor to the Chalmers and Maxwell companies, the
Maxwell becoming the Chrysler 4 for 1926 and then Plymouth for 1929.  The
Plymouth was originally a subsidiary of Chrysler - the Plymouth Motor
Corporation.  The last Plymouth was built in 2000.  For some pre-Chrysler
history :

The Maxwell started as the Maxwell-Briscoe Motor Co., in 1904.  In 1909 it
became part of the United States Motor Company which also bought up
Alden-Sampson.trucks, Sampson 35 cars, Stoddard-Dayton and Stoddard-Knight,
Brush (noted for its wooden axles), Courier (subsidiary of Stoddard-Dayton),
and Columbia (electric, gasoline and Knight-engined vehicles)

Except for Maxwell and Brush, the United States Motor Company owned a group
of money-losing companies with antiquated plants and machinery producing
outdated vehicles.  The USMCo went into receivership on September 12, 1912.
Sampson's Highland Park plant was taken over by Maxwell.

Standard Motor Co. was formed on December 31, 1912, and acquired the name
and assets of the Maxwell-Briscoe firm.  After merging with the Flanders
Motor Company in early 1913, the firm became Maxwell Motor Company.  Maxwell
production soared and the company signed an agreement to build Maxwell cars
at the Chalmers plant on Jefferson Avenue, Detroit.

The Chalmers company was formed in 1905 to build a car designed by Roy D.
Chapin and Howard E. Coffin (both formerly with Olds).  E.R. Thomas of
Buffalo, NY backed the venture, Thomas-Detroit Co., Detroit..  Sales were
slow and Hugh Chalmers brought in to head the company in 1908, which became
Chalmers-Detroit Motor Co.. That same year Chapin and Coffin design a
smaller car but Chalmers was unable to build it.  With financial backing
provided by J.L.Hudson, a relative of one of the Hudson engineers, the
Hudson Motor Car Company was established.

Hudson builds a new assembly plant just across the street on Jefferson
Avenue from the Chalmers plant.   Hudson and Chalmers then go their separate
ways.

The post-WWI recession hit Maxwell and Chalmers hard - Chalmers, whose sales
were never enough to fully utilize the Jefferson plant, goes into
receivership while Maxwell has an oversupply of cars.  Maxwell sales dropped
due to problems with back axle housing breaking and loose gas tanks.
Maxwell buys Chalmers for $2 million and renames the Chalmers firm,.
Chalmers Motor Car Company.

Walter P. Chrysler, in the middle of pulling Willys-Overland from the brink,
was brought in to save Maxwell and Chalmers.  Rear axles on Maxwell cars
were braced and prices lowered, bringing in $5 profit per car. With an
improved produced, sales of the Good Maxwell, as the ads claim, increase.
In 1923 Walter Chrysler and associates gain control of Maxwell, with the
company becoming the Maxwell Motor Corporation.

Production of the new 1924 Chrysler Model B begins at the Jefferson Avenue
plant, a couple months after Chalmers production ceases.    The company also
acquires the Detroit operation of the American Body Company (Kercheval
Avenue body plant) and the Pekins Wood Products Co. of Helena, Arkansas.
The Chrysler Model A was an aborted project for the Willys Corporation in
1921.  The car, and the Elizabeth, NJ, assembly plant, were purchased by
W.C.Durant at an auction.  Zeder, Breer, and Skelton work with Durant to
bring the car to production as the Flint for 1923.

On June 26, 1925 the Maxwell Motor Corporation becomes the Chrysler Motor
Corporation.    The last Maxwell is built at that time and becomes the
Chrysler Four for 1926.   By 1928 the sales of the Chrysler car are handled
by the Chrysler Sales Corporation, a subsidiary of Chrysler Corporation.

DeSoto was created by Chrysler in the summer of 1928 (1929 model year) as a
subsidiary of Chrysler - DeSoto Motor Corporation.   The DeSoto was
originally priced just above the Plymouth, with the Plymouth having
4-cylinder engines and DeSoto sixes and eights (1930-32).   In 1933 the
DeSoto moved upscale becoming a lower-priced Chrysler.   The last DeSoto car
built in Canada was for 1960, while Detroit built DeSoto cars for the U.S.
briefly for 1961.

An export-based DeSoto car based on the Plymouth appeared for 1938 and was
built through 1961.  Called the Diplomat after World War II, it was
based on the Dodge Dart for 1960 and 1961.  South Africa built a Dodge
Adventurer based on the Dodge Dart 440 for 1962.   In 1939 a line of DeSoto
trucks for export markets was introduced.   Not sure when the last
Detroit-built DeSoto truck was built, but the former Chrysler of Turkey
still builds DeSoto trucks.  South Africa also sold leftover 1961 Dodge
Lancer sedans as the DeSoto Rebel in 1963.

As the same time as the Plymouth and DeSoto were created, Chrysler formed
the Fargo Motor Corporation to produce trucks for Plymouth and DeSoto
dealers.  The Fargo truck, using Plymouth and DeSoto engines, lasted less
than two years when company focus was changed to export markets.  During the
early 1930's the Fargo name was also used on Plymouth cars for government
and export sales.   In 1933 Chrysler began building Fargo trucks for export
sales separate from Plymouth and Dodge and in 1936 Chrysler of Canada began
building Fargo trucks for Canadian Plymouth-Chrysler dealers.  Although the
Fargo truck disappeared from Canadian showrooms at the end of the 1972 model
year, the nameplate lasted until 1987 for Detroit-built export trucks.   The
Fargo name is still used by the former Chrysler of Turkey.

Dodge Brothers began building cars in 1914.    The two brothers died in 1920
and their widows sold the firm to a New York banking group in 1923.    By
1926 the banking group wanted to get out of the auto business and sell DB
while the price was high to make a good profit.  Chrysler was in the market
for a company that had its own foundry and forge, something Chrysler needed
if it was to expand.  Thus Chrysler and the bank began their discussions.
In July 1928 the Dodge
Brothers company became the Dodge Brothers Motor Corporation, a subsidiary
of Chrysler Corporation.  The Dodge, by 1927, had risen in price and was now
priced into the lower-priced Chrysler market.  In 1933 the Dodge six began
sharing bodies and parts with the Plymouth and moved into the price class
just above Plymouth.  In effect, Dodge and DeSoto swapped markets.

The Dodge Brothers line became just Dodge with the 1931 models.  At that
time Dodge was building some models for export, basically small bore
versions of their six cylinder models.  In 1932 Dodge built the DM four, a
Plymouth with a Dodge grille, for export.  They were all built at the
Plymouth plant on Lynch Road.  In 1935 Dodge offered a line of Dodge cars
based on the Plymouth for export, two years after Chrysler of Canada offered
them for the Canadian market.   This line of Dodges, called Kingsway after
WWII, was replaced by the Dodge Dart in 1960.

Another firm connected with DB was the Graham Brothers Motor Company   GB
had begun building trucks based on the Ford Model T chassis at the end of
World War I, but soon switched to Dodge Brothers, eventually signing an
agreement whereby GB trucks would be sold through DB dealers.  In 1925 DB
purchased  Graham Brothers Motor Company, and the three Graham brothers
became part of the management team at DB. Graham Brothers Motor Co. had
plants in Evansville, Indiana and Stockton, California.

When the banking group began making major efforts to sell off DB, the
brothers Graham decided to move on.  They did not have the financial backing
to buy DB.
Instead they bought the Paige-Detroit Motor Co., which became the
Graham-Paige Motor Corporation.  The G-P assembly plant on Warren Avenue was
sold to Chrysler in 1947, first becoming the DeSoto body plant and from 1959
through 1961 the Imperial assembly plant.  Although G-P got out of the auto
business in 1947, the company is still around - it is now known as the
Madison Square Garden Corporation.

After Chrysler bought Dodge Brothers, they continued building Graham
Brothers trucks until the end of 1928.  For 1929, the Graham Brothers truck
became
the Dodge Brothers truck.

Around 1934 all the subsidiary corporations became divisions - Plymouth
Division, Dodge Division, DeSoto Division, Chrysler Sales Division and Fargo
Division.  In Canada the same subsidiaries had been formed, but with "of
Canada, Limited" on the end.  In 1933 all those corporations were wound up
and replaced by two divisions : Dodge-DeSoto Divison and Plymouth-Chrysler
Division.  With the introduction of the Fargo truck in 1936, it became the
Plymouth-Chrysler-Fargo Division.

And we get into the American Motors side of the story, with the AMC line
being produced by Chrysler until December 1987.  The new Renault-designed
Eagle Premier  production began about that time.  The Eagle was the only
American car, that I know of, that had no models that were "American" as all
models were either built or designed outside the U.S.A.  The Premier and
Vision were built in Canada, the Medallion in France, the Vista and 2000 in
Japan and Thailand while the Talon was assembled in the U.S. with Japanese
parts. Which is why the Eagle Talon and Plymouth Laser VINs started with "4"
and not "1".

The other AMC-related namplates, including acquisitions :
American Motors : Rambler (1957-1969), AMC (1966-1988)
Nash-Kelvinator :   Rambler (1902-1913),  Jeffery (1914-1917); Nash
(1917-1957); LaFayette (1920-1924), Ajax (1926), LaFayette (1934-1936).
Hudson : Hudson (1909-1957), Essex (1919-1933), Terraplane (1933-1937)
Willys : Overland (1903-1927), Willys-Knight (1914-1933), Willys
(1920-1921), Whippet (1927-1930) Falcon-Knight (1927-1928), Willys
(1930-1955, trucks to 1963), Jeep trucks (1963-date)
Willys - acquisitions :  Stearns/Stearns-Knight (1898-1930),
Russell/Russell-Knight (1905-1916), Garford (1907-1914), Edwards-Knight
(1913-1914), Sterling-Knight (1923-1925).
Kaiser-Frazer :  Kaiser (1947-1955), Frazer (1947-1951), Henry J (1951-1954)
Graham-Paige : Paige (1908-1928), Jewett (1923-1926), Graham-Paige
(1928-1930), Graham (1930-1941)



Bill
Vancouver, BC




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert neal zimmerman" <northwestweirdo@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: history question



Heres one for Bill-
   I assume in the beginning Dodge, Plymouth , Chrysler and DeSoto were
   all autonomous companies, yes or no?
      At what point did Chrysler take them all under its wing? To
      become the  "CHRYSLER CORPORATION"
      Were there any  other divisions of Chrysler that got lost along
      the way like Desoto ( and now Plymouth)?
    Just a wonderin'
     Neal Zimmerman, Eugene Oregon

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