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Member
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Location: Sherman,Texas | Everyone has been saying it came without a radio, but this picture shows a pushbutton radio with the two control knobs.
click on picture for a better view
aepowell
Edited by aepowell 2007-06-23 1:30 AM
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Expert
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Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | Maybe they removed the antenna/mirror(s) to get a form fit on the styrolene?
Shoot, maybe the holes were there & I didn't look close enough.....
Edited by 1959Fury 2007-06-23 1:52 AM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5139
 
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | My thought has been that possibly the antennas were dealer installed back then and Miss Belvie had not got it yet.......................................5%............... | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Nah, Steve, when you ordered/bought a car with a radio, the antenna was provided at no additional cost!
Many radios were retrofitted by dealerships, onto cars that were delivered without them.
As the car was placed inside a (virtually worthless, as it turned out) vinyl-type bag, it makes sense that the antenna would have been LOWERED, into the fender cavity; but, to have been removed, from the car does not make sense; especially since the car was expected to be un-earthed in perfect condition. The antenna could, then, have been pulled-back-up, into position, and re-secured to the fender, using the base/hardware that could have been stored in the glovebox.
SO, does anyone have any pics which would clearly show the large antenna mounting-hole, on the passenger's side fender?
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Expert
Posts: 2308
Location: The Bat Cave, Fairborn, OH | Apparently the car did have a radio, but there's no sign of an antenna; not even a mounting hole for one on the right fender which is the normal location for one. A mystery!
Edited by 58 DESOTOS RULE 2007-06-23 4:14 PM
 (1957 Plymouth R-F Antenna.jpg)
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 1957 Plymouth R-F Antenna.jpg (42KB - 138 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | I saw the radio but it didnt even occur to me that the antenna was missing. Funny so many people said it was a delete car when it is fairly obvious on the dash. | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | WELL, the fact that it has a radio, but NOT an antenna implies that the radio was ADDED-on, at the dealership, and/or by Tulsarama Committee, after the car was built.
Unfortunately, the motto for all Mopes is :"Never say Never", about anything, but, if it ain't got no antennae, it (probably) was built without the radio-
option.
The car's Broadcast Sheet (right; go find THAT, in the car!) and its factory IBM Card photocopy will confirm precisely what OEM equipment the car had, when it left the factory.
I wonder if Tulsarama has a record of its VIN ???
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Here is another shot from the Original Burial... No Antenna
 (Miss Belvy.jpg)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | HI, CLIVE!!! You home now?????
back-on-thread: my position shall have to remain that, failing the existence of an antenna, the car was not oEM built with a radio.
a LOT tougher question to debate, is on a car that is "coded" NOT to have had an OEM radio, but which "now" has (had) a radio be installed in it.
There were a lot of Dodges built without the radio option.
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | I guess we'll never know.
Maybe it was ordered with an antenna delete! LOL! | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Doug, it IS a knowable answer!
The IBM card-copy, and, maybe, the car's purchase doc's (if Tulsarama can find them lololol) will tell the story about the OEM build of the car.
What IS interesting, is who, and when it was, decided to install the radio, in the dash.
I think that someone may have had a brain-storm, late-on, to install the radio, as a gift to the future, or, maybe, the dealer was in the process of retro-fitting a radio to the car (an otherwize manual brakes/steering/2-barrel motor "stripper"car????) when it was selected to be Mess Belvidere, so, the dealer didn't bother to install an antenna?.....NAH.
I like the "Gift to the Future" theory.
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Expert
Posts: 4044
Location: Connecticut | The car was ordered with a radio. It would make sense to include an antenna, BUT that antenna would not be installed. Why ? Too much of a risk that it would snap off during delivery. Antenna came in a package with mounting instructions and template. Dealership would install when the car arrived from the factory.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Exactamundo, Ron, except that the fender would be drilled (or, pre-drilled) at the factory, for the radio installation.
No way did the individual dealerships drill through fresh paint, on the fenders, on all the cars which were to receive antennae.
On my literature, here, I don't recall reading anything about how it was expected that a dealership was to install the entire radio antenna system.
IN FACT, on my Dodge, & I'm sure, on/for PLY's, there is a SMALL, screwed-closed access hole, where the antenna was 'fished' into the inner fender, at the factory.
The Power antenna cars have a different, long-oval access hole, to accommodate the motor mechanism.
I can send you pics of no-radio-option cars (no such thing as "radio-delete") which have a welded-shut access door.
It would be good to see what the passenger's side inner fender looks like, and, the IBM card will dispell the issue as to whether this car left the factory with a radio, or not.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | And, dammit, there was no sign of an antenna in the car's trunk, IIRC---even the BEER cans didn't completely dissolve, inside the trunk.
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Expert 5K+
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | I got to agree with Ron- he said what I tried to earlier post. The factory installed the radio- it was up to the dealer to install a plain antenna or a power antenna or dual rear antennas. I don't know about plymouth, but I have seen Chrysler antennas mounted on the drivers side too....................................5%.................. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 709
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | Hehe, I knew I have seen a radio there, despite the condition of the dash and the claim in other thread , that there was no radio :D Thanks for documenting what I was not 100% sure I see there.
I have also read about antennas being mounted low to the side of a fender,in vertical position. in the space between door gap and wheel arch, but don't know if it was used in USA at all. | |
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Member
Posts: 33
| IMB Card?
Can anybody please explain to me what this card is?
Is this a card that is avaible to see what my 1957 Belvedere that was built in Evansville was equipped with?
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Expert
Posts: 1918
Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | An IBM card is like a punch card that tells, by code, what features are on the car it's attached to, Thor.
"UnrestoredBelvedere" has the original IBM cards for his nearly finished 1959 Fury 4 door sedan posted in his thread within the "Members Rides" folder thusly:
Edited by 1959Fury 2007-06-24 5:02 AM
 (IBM1.jpg)
 (IBM2.jpg)
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IBM1.jpg (46KB - 150 downloads)
IBM2.jpg (46KB - 146 downloads)
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Posts: 3951
Location: Bama | Some strange stuff about that car. Dual exhaust and no mirrors. When I think about the radio deal, I'd bet it was a delete car and people said it needs a radio in it. Just to let 2007 Tulsans know that '57 Tulsans had radios  | |
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Member
Posts: 33
| Thanks for the information about the card. I guess this card that have been in my car, have been gone for many years now. Is there any copies saved by Chrysler or the Plymouth assembly plants?
Thor | |
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Expert
Posts: 2308
Location: The Bat Cave, Fairborn, OH | I believe there is a chance you might be able to get a copy of the IBM punch card from Chrysler but you will have to have the VIN number and you will have to prove to Chrysler that you own it - and there will be a charge - about $40 USD I've heard. I haven't done it myself but some of the others who post regularly have done so and they can probably tell you who you have to write to. I think the service is offered through the WPC Museum. If you do a Google search you can probably bring up the web site. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 612
Location: Kingston Springs , TN | I've sent for the build record on my car. It costs 45 bucks and you do have to prove you're the owner, by sending them a copy of your title. In return they'll send you a copy of your IBM card and a fact sheet on your vehicle, listing whatever info they still possess, such as build and delivery dates, delivery dealer, colors etc. Here's the site where you can get the info:
http://www.chryslerheritage.com/pg904.htm
Mike
Edited by My57Saratoga 2007-06-24 10:30 AM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | YEARS ago, I acquired quite a few IBM cards, on various D500's & D501's , back when you COULD get one, by merely referencing a VIN, and paying $15.00 each. I've also swapped IBM copies, and in-house factory literature with a couple D-500-1 fanatics.
The quality of the photocopy, itself, is usually quite poor, and, you almost have to know what you're looking for, to understand all
of the fine-print, on them; but, the major-option-items (like a radio) are relatively easy to find.
I agree with Larry, that the radio-addition may have been an after-thought, by the dealer, or by Tulsarama.
One of the newspaper accounts, I've just read states that the reason a large can of gasoline was included, in the
car, was due to the possibility that there might not have been gasoline-powered cars, IN 2007!!!
ALSO: doesn't the fender's antenna-base-opening have a small notched "keyway" , on it, so that the antenna-base "slots"
into the keyway, and the antenna is thus prevented from rotating around, on the fender?
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | I think you are right about the keyway on the antenna. My car didn't have a radio, and my Dad put one in around 1982 or so. He just used a parts store antenna, but the correct looking hole I have seen in J/Y cars had a slot on one side to "clock" the antenna. | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, Brian, so, it would be a TAD-tough, to expect every dealership, to drill into a freshly painted fender, and, to create that
mounting hole-notch, for an antenna installation.
SEE? THIS is the sort of assembly-detail that I had been hoping to confirm, on the car!
I really had wanted to see how the OEM trunk-finish, and undercarriage, appeared!
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | One of the nicest things, that I've seen, in a letter accompanying the IBM Build Card copy, is the Historical Society informing
you of the identity of your car's selling-dealership.
That info is encoded on the Paint/Trim plate, but the actual long-list of dealership-codings had been thought to have been lost
at the H.S., but, a few years ago, it was apparently located.
The factory can NOT decypher the Paint/Trim plates, directly; they only provide you with the IBM card copy, and leave it
up to you to do your own data-research, on it.
Still, if you have any special-model car, the IBM card copy will confirm its provenance.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Altho it was my initial impression, that it was a no-radio car, and pointed out the lack of an antenna, no less an authority
than Jim Benjaminson ("Benji") PM'ed me, to confirm that the car did not have a radio in it, and what anyone is looking
at, on the dash, is a block-off plate.
Jim did say that it was his experience that a dealership WAS to have hole-sawed-and-notched-out a fender (or, the rear deck,
for dual antennae) and to have installed the antenna system.
This car, for whatever reason (probably due to the economics of providing a car, to Tulsa that would be stuck into the ground
for 50 years) had very few options.
One-such, which Jim could not confirm, was whether it was built with a TorqueFlite, or PowerFlite trannie.
Anyone know, for certain, about its transmission status?
Altho I see no clear-evidence of the existence of the large Carter 4barrel carb, sticking out, from under the air cleaner,
Jim is not convinced that it didn't have the big-carb, and not a 2-barrel guy.
Also, Jim states that dual exhaust pipes WERE an option, on either the 2, or on the 4, barrel carb set-ups, so,
the fact that this car DOES have dual-pipes does not confirm its carburetor status.
Is that correct, JIM?
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Veteran
Posts: 101
Location: Walhalla, ND | O.K. guys - history lesson time. Back in the late 50's items such as radios, heaters, etc., were all optional. They were installed AT THE DEALERSHIP and not the factory. My Dad was service manager for a local dealership and installed many radios, etc. As late as 1966 I worked a summer for the local Plymouth dealer - by that time the cars came with the radio in-dash but you had to drill the hole for the antennae(s). You got a paper template with the package that showed you where to locate the hole, then you got out your trusty Black & Decker and made holes in someone's brand new car so he could listen to the radio while taking Momma to church on Sunday! Outside mirrors were the same story -
drill the holes and mount them. I haven't had time to study my photos of the dash taken in Tulsa so its quite possible the car had the radio installed but the antennae had never been installed.....it might be laying in all that gunk in the trunk for all we know! | |
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Expert
Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | I would think it has the TorqueFlite. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
Location: Walhalla, ND | I've studied my photos of the interior and I simply can't tell if the car has a radio or not. If anyone has any photos clearly showing the radio, please post them! I did find the following item in "Tulsa People" magazine - "Sticker Shocking -
When it rolled off the assembly line, the 1957 Plymouth Belvedere boasted a 301 cubic inch V8 engine with 215 horsepower, push-button TorqueFlite automatic transmission and a single four-barrel carburetor. Factory options inlcuded a push-button radio, dual exhaust, twin rear antennas, dual outside rearview mirrors, tinted glass, whitewall tires, full-wheel discs, a clock, a deluxe steering wheel, push-button power windows, a rear seat speaker and chrome bumper wing guards. Sticker price, $2,324".
I am assuming someone did a little research to put that list together - the car obviously doesn't have dual rear antennas, dual outside rearview mirrors and bumper wing guards. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1918
Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | Nix on the windows as well. The manual cranks are clearly visible in the interior pics I've seen.
Speaking of the windows, who's bright idea was it to leave them cracked down a bit at the burial? | |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5139
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | Benji - 2007-07-02 7:55 PM
O.K. guys - history lesson time. Back in the late 50's items such as radios, heaters, etc., were all optional. They were installed AT THE DEALERSHIP and not the factory. My Dad was service manager for a local dealership and installed many radios, etc. As late as 1966 I worked a summer for the local Plymouth dealer - by that time the cars came with the radio in-dash but you had to drill the hole for the antennae(s). You got a paper template with the package that showed you where to locate the hole, then you got out your trusty Black & Decker and made holes in someone's brand new car so he could listen to the radio while taking Momma to church on Sunday! Outside mirrors were the same story -
drill the holes and mount them. I haven't had time to study my photos of the dash taken in Tulsa so its quite possible the car had the radio installed but the antennae had never been installed.....it might be laying in all that gunk in the trunk for all we know! Now who was it that brought this up earlier??? OH yes---it was ME!!!  .......................5%............. | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I still don't see the remains of a 4-barrel carb, on what's left of the engine, either. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 709
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | Yes, I know, I probably don't have the right to say anything probably, as I never seen Miss Belvedere in person, or any '57 Plymouth at all. All I do, is flicking the pictures until the arrows in image browser end, and go back.
But that line about the Tulsa's Belvedere having a push-button radio made me think. The left piece of image comes from a Belvedere sedan that was sold on e-bay and I have saved the pictures (my main source). The right is an interior shot of Miss Belvedere that I've found posted by someone here on FL Home forum.
Anyway - to me, there are clearly all the pushbuttons left, forming a nice, visible line of brown blocks, sticking out of the correct area of the dash, (above something, what can be the completely mudded tuning dial) still waiting to be pulled out, programmed , and used by the happy 2007 Chosen One.
Edited by FinFan 2007-07-03 4:10 AM
 (Miss_belvedere_radio.jpg)
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Miss_belvedere_radio.jpg (195KB - 137 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 3951
Location: Bama | That is the very rare radio delete plate with pushbuttons. | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | THANX, James; it certainly looks as though there is a radio-unit, in Ms. Belvie.
Jim Benjaminson states that it was the receiving dealership's responsibility to install the antenna system, on cars that were
built, with radios.
There are clearly, no holes put into the fender, by the dealership, or the factory, and there was no antenna/cable system
removed from the car.
So, given that a radio-unit was installed in the car, by the time that it was buried, the questions still remain, as to whether
the radio-unit is OEM, or whether it was installed (by the dealership, probably) as a "Gift to the Future", to show that cars
had radios in the 50's.
Please recall that one of the reasons that there was a supply of DX gas, placed into the trunk, was due to the Tulsarama
Folks not being convinced that cars would still operate, on gasoline, in 2007.
BTW, another factual inaccuracy, on the option-listing, above, is the fact that it did have plain-glass, all around it; no tinted windows.
But, again; the factory's IBM Build Card copy WILL divulge-all, regarding the car's OEM equipment.
It will ALSO confirm whether the car was special-ordered (stripper) by Tulsa, or was built for general-supply purposes, or
whether the dealership actually ordered that the car be built and shipped to the dealership (for general on-stock purposes).
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Expert
Posts: 2308
Location: The Bat Cave, Fairborn, OH | I would say Fin Fan's before and after pix definitively answered the question as to whether Miss Belvedere came with an AM radio. I saw the car in person and I took some pictures that proved to me that it did have a radio. I never had a doubt about that. I guess the dealership never got around to installing the antenna. Maybe they left it on the front seat(!) to be installed by the lucky winner in 2007.   Someone ought to send away to Chrysler Historical for Miss Belvedere's IBM card as another poster mentioned. Maybe we'll know the real low-down of what equipment the car had and what we lost because the people who buried the car in 1957 didn't install proper drains in the vault.  | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | At the very-least, one would have to have the VIN of the car; years ago, the H.S, would provide IBM copies to any interested person, regardless of vehicle ownership.
Recently (read: Deadler), the H.S. reportedly requires an imagage of the VIN plate, or some such declaration/proof of ownership, AND $45.00, to have them copy the micro-fische record, & to send you a nice cover letter, telling you of the car's receiving dealership, and some other info.
The car's eventual owner could probably be easily induced to obtain that record, from the H.S. .
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 709
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | I'm very glad that I was able to help :D :D :D it's an honour to do something for better knowing this one special Plymouth. As a future historian I'm very content that I managed to steal one secret from the past and reveal it to common profit. | |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | OK , Just back home from Spain, Had to take the Wife and Kids for 7 Days to make up for my and Charlie,s Trip to Tulsa,, So i am Late Joining the Party...
Here is a Shot of the Top of the Engine...
 (100_2286.JPG)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | It Looks to have a Torqueflite Fitted, The bottom Button Appears Small as if it is the 2
 (100_2292.JPG)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Here is my Radio Picture
 (100_2281.JPG)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Any one Else get the Picture of the Interior Roof... Must of been a AIR Pocket in there, As parts of it are GREAT Condition....
 (100_2293.JPG)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 709
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | I agree, the bottom button of the selector is fully visible from this angle, Powerflite's "L" would be cut. BTW,just think : she went down the vault with all the buttons clean and the descriptions visible. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | http://bacooper.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album... RADIO
http://bacooper.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album... TORQUEFLITE
http://bacooper.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album... TWO BARRELL (see vacuum line)
Any questions? | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah; I got one: the car sure is covered by that brownish mud-stuff.
I wonder what the composition was, of the water-and-dirt , that got THRU the concrete, and gunnite !!!!
It certainly aoppears that a significant amount of "dirt" was transported thru/into the vault!
One might imagine that relatively clean water might have percolated through the vault, but, judging from the "dirt" that
is everywhere in/on the car, I'm wondering if the river-FLOODING, which happened at least once, during the 50 years,
might not be responsible for much, or all(?) of the water/dirt damage, to the car?????
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | A lot of that red stuff is rust. How do I know? The "samples" I (ahem) gathered off the car are magnetic. That means metal, which means rust. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2011
Location: Ballwin, Missouri | OK, Who is going to Volunteer to crawl in there and stick his head up under the
dash to see if there is actually a radio in there or just an open hole behind the
buttons and knobs?????
Edited by RoyalGate 2007-07-07 4:21 PM
 (Radio or No Radio.jpg)
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | If I could I would. | |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | If all you Guys chip in and pay for my Flights, I will Gladly Volunteer............. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 406
Location: Voss,Norway | Hi there guys.
I back from my trip around the states and i will say that i was really great meeting you all in Tulsa!!!!!!!!!
Just a question regarding miss belvederes carb.
If she got a four barrel carb wouldnt she have the hang down type of air cleaner?
Kjell
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | It's a TWO BARELL!! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 406
Location: Voss,Norway | Thats what i tought.
Thanks Brian.
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Member
Posts: 7
| Weird about the radio mystery. As far as I know the mounting locations would have been trunk 'whip' , antennas, or the conventional front fender spot as already pointed out.
There is one other possible location; embedded into the windshield glass. I'm not an expert really on MoPar, but I know on my Chevelle the antennas are imbedded into the front windshield. Almost invisible really unless you look closely at the glass, then you will see three thin metallic strips sandwiched in between the glass spanning a good portion of the windshield. The Chevelle is the 70 model year, so it's feesible I guess that this could have been a viable option thirteen years prior spanning the Detroit lines.
Edited by winter_deltron 2007-07-24 8:41 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Chrysler didn't put the antenna in the front glass that I am aware of. No company did in the fifties at all, generic motors included. | |
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Member
Posts: 7
| Somewhere around 1970 must have been the first use of windshield antennas (on GM A bodies anyway)...
I was half expecting the brand loyalist remark, then thought 'nah, I'm not going to receive that due to brand alone; after all, the bottom line is it's a full framed domestic which is all that should really matter. More importantly, 'Generic' motors has taken the global sales lead back away from Toyota last I heard. I'd be just as pleased if it had been Chrsler. So consider me more of a domestic car guy as opposed to a 'brand' loyalist...Which is what we need more of, and which is why I'm here. I have just as much respect for a Fury as I do a Chevelle. I don't see the MoPar owner as a rival of some sort. There's too many import loyalists, or bureaucrats that would like to see both the Chevelle and the Plymouth restricted to our driveways. Those are the real rivals when it comes to this hobby.
Glad that's out of the way. | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Todd, welcome aboard; most die-hard MoPar mavens do tend to have chips on our shoulders (myself included), based upon a lot
of factors, like NASCAR skewing its rules, to favor Ford & Ch**y (there, I said them!) , media bias against Chrysler, the list goes on..
This thread is about how the car came to have a non-operative radio unit be installed in it, but, having no antenna-drillings on it,
when it was buried.
GM was the first company to install integral dual-wire (for FM reception, particularly) antennas, in their windshields, sometime around 1970.
A lot of us, here, probably DO regard GM & Ford, as being rivals (unless we're talking about other "common competitors".
This discussion probably deserves its own indeperndent thread:
"How come we-all don't love Chevies, too"? Can't we-all just, get-along"???
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Fine then, I will!! | |
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Expert
Posts: 3951
Location: Bama | The thing about it is this.. The foreign cars are now made in the US. I heard chebbies were being made in Mexico. True or not? The US has sold all of its ports? I just heard last night that most all toll roads are owned by foreigners? Is this true? Is the US bent over and waiting for the big one or what?
Tulsa Belvy has a radio, I'll bet it doesn't work. | |
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Regular
Posts: 82
| Yeah it's true Larry. I heard some rich Saudi family bought the Port of Miami which has the local folks nervous. That's what's wrong with this country, as long as there are enough zeros in the check they would sell Washigton D.C. to Osama Bin Laden.
Doug | |
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Member
Posts: 7
| Well, thanks for the welcome d5.
...and yes., the Belvedere is a great interest to me....But I just have to address a few points here (being as diplomatic as possible). Lawrence as far as Mexico and Toyota goes, consider this; GM (the big three in particular) has supported our country by paying some of the largest corporate taxes in America. The non-American car companies choose some of the poorest areas of the country and then negotiate with the state and local governments to receive “sweetheart” tax deals or threaten to take their much needed jobs elsewhere. If the big three were given the same “deals, Mexico wouldn't even factor in.
They have tooled up, supported, and helped this country win two world wars (which side did Toyota support?). If necessary, and I hope it never is, they will help us win another one. Will the Toyota Corporation do the same?
For every vehicle General Motors sells a little more than 9 jobs in the US are supported (ABC World News Tonight, May 2005). Why is this? Because GM still uses more AMERICAN MADE parts in their vehicles than the non-american car companies do. In fact, it is the Japanese Auto Manufacturing Associations (which Toyota is a member of) position to use as many parts as possible from other countries (Detroit Auto News).
GM is the second largest provider of health insurance in this country. If you live in this country, chances are you know someone who works directly for the big three or for a company who supplies parts for their vehicles.
Consider those simple points Lawrence.
To d5 about NASCAR skewing it's rules, you're talking about the Daytona's/Superbird's of over thirty years ago I'm guessing? I would rank that up there as part myth as well. It was practically even really between the Ford's and MoPar's in the 1970 'aerowar' season. GM wasn't even a factory supporter during that. The Ford was running a Hemi as well (even the LS6 from GM has a sort of 'semi-hemi' design to the cylinder heads.)
The first use of a restrictor plate was in 71 on a winged car believe it or not (sitting on a small block MoPar intake.) The main reason for eliminating the winged cars was safety concerns, and as obvious with the Superbirds/Daytona's -- Not to have the factories introducing exotic designs such as that. They wanted to keep NASCAR looking like NASCAR in other words.
As far as rules 'skewing' in NACSAR goes. Again, you're focusing on the wrong manufacturer. Look to Toyota instead, essentially creating a carbon copy of an American push rod just in order to compete with it....And as far as Chrysler goes, out of all of the big three; they are official listed as a as a GERMAN-AMERICAN COMPANY now. Essentially killing off Plymouth just because they didn't want a 'stodgy' image associated with them on the global market. Or what they perceived as one. I don't agree with a lot of Chryslers actions (or those paying the bills to keep it alive) -- I was hurt really when they dropped Plymouth. I've had my share of Plymouths as well, and am a huge fan of Plymouth.
I would have just as soon had a RoadRunner, or even a Challenger...But the price was right for the Chevelle at the time, that's what motivated me to purchase it, not brand loyalty.
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Expert
Posts: 3951
Location: Bama | Todd, consider this. If certain American companies use other nations to build their stuff(GM), do they still pay Americans Healthcare? During the 2 World Wars, were there more employees of the big 3 or less than there are now. Factor in wage increase and car increase and I think you are full of crap.
Miss Belvedere's radio looked bad. | |
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Member
Posts: 7
| Lawrence you're missing the point. Let's not forget about all of the retirees that are still receiving pensions, and health care. There's quite a few of those. As far as employees go during the two world wars; the factories were going at a fever pitch, most every capable American assumed a role to aid in the effort. So you tell me, do you honestly believe (factoring in robotics responsible for the majority of the welding involved nowadays)...Do you honestly believe that there are more bodies on the lines today than there were during war production times in the 40's?
Get your crap together.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | Hey Lawrence Me thinks you have your hands full with Winter Deltron, and welcome aboard to our kool little world.
Jimmy | |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Oh, yeah; no OEM radio, huh.... | |
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Regular
Posts: 82
| It's possible that the Tulsarama people ordered the car with no antenna or mirrors to get a good seal with the cosmoline and the bag(which we now know was useless). How many folks believe that Miss Belvedere will come out of Ultra One's tank with a sunroof? She'll be unique as I don't know of any other 57 Plymie with one of those.
Doug | |
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