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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Buffalo, NY | I don't know if anyone else saw the show tonight but I decided to tune in as it was recorded the week prior to tulsarama and thought it would be nice to see what their plans were etc etc. I think I have been duped into this reality TV thing for sure. Boyd's wife decides she doesn't like Liz..an apparent new girl who appeared to be highly motivated etc etc..Also makes Boyd's wife look like roadkill in my opinion so what happens...He fires the poor kid for no real reason...then they have their "emergency" meeting when they find out the Vault was full of water. Dwayne says under his breath (the cars a peice of s**t) they laugh and Boyd pretends to care. I'll never watch the show again... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | Yes as I have stated before. I drove by his trailor down in Tulsa and yelled over to him as he looked up I yelled to him again "You suck boyd" and slowly drove away I have been trying to let you all down easy he wouldn't know what a real hot rod was if one ran him over LOL
Jimmy |
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Expert
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Location: Blythewood, SC | Gee, I can't wait to see what happens next week! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 750
Location: kansas city, mo. | i agree with the b.s. way the firing was handled. the girl was a nice person and seemed interested and able, but what dwayne said about the belvedere was right on in reality. he is who he is and much of it is for camera i'm sure. i still like the show and will continue to watch even though i don't see any reality in it except for the hot rods. what we see is only an hour of hundreds of hours of tape so obviously there is a lot we do not see that would probably make more sense of things. notice the old hemi in the 32 ford? what would these professed Ch**y and ford monkeys do without the old mopar hemis to upgrade their hot rods? prolly throw a small block Ch**y in and forget it! by the way, is there anything more mundane than a small block Ch**y? gosh they're boring! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 303
Location: P la P, Man | My beef is the same as with all these type of shows. If I wanted to see people scramble to meet meaningless deadlines, and listen to their territorial interpersonal conflicts; I could go in to work. :P...........My uncle has the right idea: watch with the sound off. - Rob |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | It would seem that when people have nothing, and are doing cars, they tend to be "Normal"...
Then, let them get "Big time money makers", and they all go straight to hell...
I rememeber when Boyd was building cars for the average Joe, then this "Big time" thing hit, and he divorces his wife of how many years?, marry's some young chick that's CLEARLY in it for the money, and generally becomes an A$$HOLE!
Boyd SUCKS! |
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Expert
Posts: 2100
Location: Idaho - where men are men and spuds are spuds | It's really no different than all the other silly shows on TV. If you watch the first and last few minutes, you pretty much get the gist of the whole show without all the nonsense. Or better yet, DON'T WATCH AT ALL! You'll feel alot better too. |
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Regular
Posts: 75
Location: Vancouver/Canada | The sad part of the show is that it's geared to be a soap opera, not a show on building cars. In reality, most "car guys" would rather be under a car, with crud falling in their face & oil dripping down their arm, than watching some show about how mass amounts of money + ridiculous timelines = a thrown-together car, with numerous short cuts, and a miserable, high-turnover crew. Yeah, it looks as though Boyd's wife(#2) has elected herself to vice-president status. A guy like Dwayne would last, at best, a couple of days - I'm a shipyard steelworker - before someone buried a wrench in his head. Will I still watch the show? Of course, a car nut is a car nut & I need my weekly fix. Too bad they don't spend enough time, on any one aspect of a build, to allow the viewers to actually learn something though. That's why I prefer Kevin Tetz - "Trucks" - as he always makes the effort to teach something.
Mike
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | Just wanted to mention boyd SUCKS And Gene Winfield Rules always remeber the true masters of the craft. Winfield, Barris, Bailon, Hines, Peirce, C. Rogers true craftsman of the real art of cars along with Ed Roth and Starbrid, and least we forget Von Dutch aka "The flying Dutchman" and so many true men of our culture.
Jimmy |
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Veteran
Posts: 273
Location: Los Angeles, Ca | Help me out, guys. and honestly, I'm not trying to defend anyone here. but why does he suck? Is it because he likes the non mopar stuff? Is it because he commercializes hot rodding? Both? other? The fact is he's made a healthy living off of this. He's made many cars. love them or hate them, he's realized his dreams and made them come true. I would love to make lots of money off of building cars, winning awards, becomming honored in the hot rodders hall of fame, etc. He may be arrogant and unfriendly (as witnessed in Tulsa and on TV), but he has accomplished a lot.
Just wondering. I'm NOT trying to ruffle feathers...
Edited by tuske427 2007-09-05 2:22 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...Sorry, Brendon; but, could you repeat your (second-to-) last sentence, again, for me? |
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Expert
Posts: 2244
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | You pose a good question, about Coddington.
He is having a car show, this Saturday, at his place in La Habra, Calif.
I have my car entered, (the 59).
Maybe I will get to meet him, and find out, for myself, what kind of a guy He is.
I took the entry form , a picture of the car, and the $35 for the show, to his place , in person,
yesterday, (Tuesday , Sept 4th).
I didn't see any mopars at his place, but that is not unusual, I never see any at John Force's facility either, except those entered in the show, and the last Show, a bunch of Dodges, won trophies, even thou the show was sponsored by the "Corvette Club".
If you get the chance you may want to drop by Saturday, the show runs from 9am till 2, and you still could get your car entered, My fins would love some company of "Her Kind"
If you wish to enter your car, it has to be entered by tomorrow, Sept 6.
Email me and I will give you a fone number to call, should you be interested.
By for Now
Gary Yorba Linda |
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | if you want to see a good car show watch overhaulin.they actually do a nice restoration in 7 days.They usually try to keep the car stock.
CHIP FOOSE RULES
BOYD CODDINGTON DROOLS |
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Expert
Posts: 2244
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Thanks, I will watch for that show.
I have never seen Coddingtons show, either.
I like to watch, "My Classic Car"
They did 4 of Aivar's cars on there.
His 58 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible yea it has a Hemi
His 1959 Black Fury Plymouth--maybe a Sport Fury, will hafta look,
His 1960 Red Dodge Phoenix Convertible
and His 1960 Dodge Matador 2 door hardtop, Blue |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | plymouth - 2007-09-05 7:49 PM
if you want to see a good car show watch overhaulin.they actually do a nice restoration in 7 days.They usually try to keep the car stock.
CHIP FOOSE RULES
BOYD CODDINGTON DROOLS
EXCEPT for those darn pimp wheels Chip seems to think all cars need to have a good look, it's not a bad show...
7 day resto? Not a chance...At any given time, there are about 50 people workin' on that car...A friend who owns a Mieneke muffler shop here went to see a taping, and said they couldn't even see the car for the amount of people workin' on it...Hell, if i had 50 people workin' on my '58, It would be done in 7 days too.... |
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Expert
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Location: McComb, Mississippi | you are right about those pimp wheels.i cant stand them. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | Brendon the reason for me haveing such a dislike for that bone head is because, the cars they make at his shop are boydsters not hot rods the show's name is so misleading. A true hot rod was nothing more than what a poor sap like me could dream up and build out of parts you either found, stole, or could save up for. Yes maybe he is makeing money doing something he may have an interest in. But you will not see him ever turn a wrench unless it is scripted that way he has now real mechanical talents that I have ever known of. I wont bore every body with the dozens of for instances If you want to see some real hot rodz check out http://www.hotrodhappenings.com/Gallery-Show-Hunnertcarpileup101406...
Jimmy I plan on being there with my 59 this year |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7400
Location: northern germany | all this talk about him here forced me to watch his show. to me he is the incarnation of an anti hotrodder. in one show he watched old films showing 50s hot rods/dragracing. i wonder what he thought when he saw REAL hotrods and if he noticed a difference between these cars and the gay looking crap he builds. i can't believe they call him the king of hotrods. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, who made Budweiser the "king" of beers??????? (self-promotion, and the 'Big-Lie', which ultimately gains acceptance).
It is instructive to look at 1950's Budweiser advertising, as it is very laid-back, and suburban-leisure, in its styling; nothing like
the energy/activity/excitement with which it promotes-associates itself, today.
It's former advertising slogan was :"Where there's Bud, there's life".----they shoulda said "leisure/inactivity".....
Pre-"Marlboro Man" advertising is interesting; you didn't see the male character, only a hand, having Navy-flyer's-wings
tatttooed onto the back of it, holding a smoldering cancer-stick.
Meanwhile, back to the Boydster........
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Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!
Posts: 5358
Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK) | I Haave atched American Hotrod for some time now, even though my spouse hates it, only because I don''t want to watch the garbage on the commercail channels or the other garbage channels on cable.It appears that all of the qualified help that Coddington has had have all left him, or he's run 'em off. Yeh, it''s another form of soap opera, fer shure. but ocasionally they do some peice of work worth watchin. I'd rather watch the 'ole timers build a chopped/channeled '31 tudor on "Monster Garage", or the chopped 54 chebbie that was done there. but Overhaulin has to beat anything done on coddington's floors, hands down, even if it takes 45-50 people working 16 hour days. They would do that show a favor if they replaced the toothy "A.J." with something more pleasing to the eyes who actually knows something about cars. Guess one person's idea of eye candy is what counts on tv. |
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Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Watch American Body Shop on Comedy Central. Thats real hotrodding. |
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Don't forget to watch tonight! This should be the Tulsa episode. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 397
Location: McHenry Illinois | Hey, I saw myself and the wife about 13 minutes into the show tonight. It looks as if the cameraman was panning the audience from atop the stage when we all were standing in front of Miss Belvedere after Boyd and crew did the unvieling . I'll have to try and catch it again tonight.
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Veteran
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Location: Los Angeles, Ca | moparjimmy - 2007-09-05 10:02 PM
Brendon the reason for me haveing such a dislike for that bone head is because, the cars they make at his shop are boydsters not hot rods the show's name is so misleading. A true hot rod was nothing more than what a poor sap like me could dream up and build out of parts you either found, stole, or could save up for. Yes maybe he is makeing money doing something he may have an interest in. But you will not see him ever turn a wrench unless it is scripted that way he has now real mechanical talents that I have ever known of. I wont bore every body with the dozens of for instances If you want to see some real hot rodz check out http://www.hotrodhappenings.com/Gallery-Show-Hunnertcarpileup101406...
Jimmy I plan on being there with my 59 this year
Hey Jimmy:
I appreciate your input. Again, I'm not trying to defend him and I won't refer him as the king of Hot Rods, either. (reminds me of Howard Stern's self titling claim of being the king of multimedia) Some people make complaints without any real reason to back it up. So it makes me wonder why people complain. I'm glad to hear some replies.
To me- it seems that guys like him are part of the evolution of hot rodding. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but if you look at the history of hot rodding it started out like how you described. guys at home using what they could find to make improvements. looks, performance, etc. then, folks start making speed parts. Vic Edelbrock, ed Iskendarian, etc and end up making a good business out of it. more people follow suit and next thing you know it's a full fledged industry for speed parts. From there it leads to shops building cars. Boyd, like many others, is just part of the whole picture. but, he has notoriety for having a tv show. no different than those OC choppers guys who build bikes in the motorcycle industry. Or Bob villa building houses... Many people do these things, many people out there who have real talent receive little to no recognition, but there are whose few who, whether it's through connections, money, or dumb luck, get to have tv shows.
I wish I knew about this car show in so cal. I would bring my car there to see if he'd look at it this time (those who were at Tulsa may remember him driving by in a golf cart our row of cars looking the other way during the judging car show on Saturday, June 16th. It felt like, to me, that a bunch of our cars were overlooked that day. who knows..)
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Expert
Posts: 2244
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | The car show is tomorrow, Saturday, Sept 8, from 9am to 2 pm.
It is in La Habra California, probably a half hour drive or less from LA.
The address is 811 East Lambert Road, La Habra.
The Phone number is (562) 691-8215, ask for Kirsten
Fax is (562) 697-1046
Kirsten's email is
kirsten.i@boydcoddington.com
Edited by 1959Dodge 2007-09-07 7:35 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | I saw a bunch of FL people on the broadcast! Deewayne came accross as the jerk he is. He has to learn that you don't have to be an a$$ to get ahead. It's a shame that he was treated like a god instead of a goon when he was there. I still like Floyd Cotterpin's crew, just not him or Deewayne and Jo-Tox.
(Lord help me that post looks like it's from Neil or Can-Man!) |
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Expert
Posts: 2244
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | what is the name of the jerk that made the tasteless remarks about the Plymouths?
I will be at Coddington;s tomorrow, and I will serve him up a "Knuckle Sandwich"
Thanks |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7807
Location: Williams California | Yep. Duane came across as the jerk that he is. Pretty maddening if you ask me. ---John |
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Member
Posts: 11
| What is the name of the episode with the Tulsa Plymouth? I missed it and the next one on is called Boneville Racer 1, is this the right one?
Thanks,
Jeff |
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Corvette 3 I think? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 303
Location: P la P, Man | Yeah, '59 Corvette 3. Here's an episode list: http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?tvobjectid=195675&more=u... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The show was on last nite; but someone posted too late, on the Daily List Server, for me to"catch" the moc-umentary-segment.
When I turned to the show, some guy was kissing Boyd's ass, about some nasty old- curvette project. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hey: you don't have to puussyy-foot around the word ASS, any more!
Edited by d500neil 2007-09-07 3:30 PM
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Veteran
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Location: Tampa, FL | d500neil - 2007-09-07 3:26 PM
The show was on last nite; but someone posted too late, on the Daily List Server, for me to"catch" the moc-umentary-segment.
When I turned to the show, some guy was kissing Boyd's ass, about some nasty old- curvette project.
It would have just pissed you off anyway, Duane with his "It was junk when it went in the ground" comment. I suppose he figures a 57 Ch**y would have better in the same situation. At least the other guys on the show didn't dis the car like he did. |
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Member
Posts: 19
Location: Belmont, CA | just AVOID THE BOYD |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Well i Missed it All... But basically you are saying Duane is as Much as a T0sser as Boyd. And Loves to lick Boyds Ass at any given Opportunity..
I didn,t miss much then !!!!!!!!!!!11 |
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Veteran
Posts: 273
Location: Los Angeles, Ca | 1959Dodge - 2007-09-07 4:31 AM
The car show is tomorrow, Saturday, Sept 8, from 9am to 2 pm.
It is in La Habra California, probably a half hour drive or less from LA.
The address is 811 East Lambert Road, La Habra.
The Phone number is (562) 691-8215, ask for Kirsten
Fax is (562) 697-1046
Kirsten's email is
kirsten.i@boydcoddington.com
thank you. Unfortunately, I already have plans tomorrow and can't make it. Good luck at the show. |
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Expert
Posts: 3951
Location: Bama | d500neil - 2007-09-06 2:32 PM Well, who made Budweiser the "king" of beers??????? (self-promotion, and the 'Big-Lie', which ultimately gains acceptance). It is instructive to look at 1950's Budweiser advertising, as it is very laid-back, and suburban-leisure, in its styling; nothing like the energy/activity/excitement with which it promotes-associates itself, today. It's former advertising slogan was :"Where there's Bud, there's life".----they shoulda said "leisure/inactivity"..... Pre-"Marlboro Man" advertising is interesting; you didn't see the male character, only a hand, having Navy-flyer's-wings tatttooed onto the back of it, holding a smoldering cancer-stick. Meanwhile, back to the Boydster........ And where are all those old "TOYYYYOTAS!!!" these days? With the"I have 157,000 miles on my Toyota".. I see more 70's 80's American cars than I do yota. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Well, my mother has a 1991 Toyota truck with over 300,000 miles on it, and GET THIS, SHE GOT 142,000 MILES OUT OF THE ORIGINAL TIRES!!!
I was told that the dealer who sold her the truck (Oak Ridge Toyota), here in Lynchburg Va, KEPT those tires for a display in the dealership....
I also got a Subaru, with 430,000 miles on the original engine! Yes, the oil press. looks like a tacometer, but it still runs!
OK, I'm though thread hijacking.........Back to the Douchebag, Boyd......... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 397
Location: McHenry Illinois | spikemike - 2007-09-07 2:39 PM
d500neil - 2007-09-07 3:26 PM
The show was on last nite; but someone posted too late, on the Daily List Server, for me to"catch" the moc-umentary-segment.
When I turned to the show, some guy was kissing Boyd's ass, about some nasty old- curvette project.
It would have just pissed you off anyway, Duane with his "It was junk when it went in the ground" comment. I suppose he figures a 57 Ch**y would have better in the same situation. At least the other guys on the show didn't dis the car like he did.
Yeah, what was up with Duane? Every time he was on camera he was rippin' on the Belvie. I mean even if he isn't a Mopar fan, he should have kept his opinions to himself. What an a$$hole!!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | That ASS duane must have been inbread with his aunt/sister and his uncle/brother. Just a sad attempt at getting some face time to bad he showed what a tard monkey really looks like and boyd still SUCKS.
On a much KOOLER note did any body see Brain Cooper's hated truck in the Nov. issue of MoPar Muscle page 86. Hey Brain do you still hate your Truck man cause I dig it dude Congrates.
Jimmy |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7400
Location: northern germany | i only watched 4 episodes of american hotrod. in germany this show is probably a couple of years behind, but i hated this a**hole dwaine instantly, the other guys seem to be ok and they seem to hate boyd too. in one episode a customer asks boyd to build a period correct 50S hotrod (!) but boyd is trying to make a boydster out of it. his crew is complaining about that and they are trying to build a 50s hotrod the way the customer wants it. this a**hole dwaine (i call him boyds pet) is constantly running to boyds office complaining they don't make it they way he (boyd) wants it. now i know he made that comments about the tulsa plymouth i hate him even more. in one episode he wears a shirt with a print saying "cars suck" with a large bike on it. that makes sense. boyds only friend is an a**hole who hates cars. thats why he likes boyd and his "creations". |
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | i first started disliking the show when boyd fired the young guy back in january.i forgot his name but i thought that guy was trying really hard to impress boyd and what does boyd do,fires the poor boy!!! |
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Expert
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Location: Blythewood, SC | moparjimmy - 2007-09-08 2:07 AM
That ASS duane must have been inbread with his aunt/sister and his uncle/brother. Just a sad attempt at getting some face time to bad he showed what a tard monkey really looks like and boyd still SUCKS.
On a much KOOLER note did any body see Brain Cooper's hated truck in the Nov. issue of MoPar Muscle page 86. Hey Brain do you still hate your Truck man cause I dig it dude Congrates.
Jimmy
Thanks Jimmy. I'm starting to calm down about the truck now. The motor is back from the machine shop and I am addressing some old issues ( stripped bolt holes on the oil pan rails and the header bolt holes) before I start re-assembly. I think I will eventually calm down, but if the right stack of money comes along to make me break even on it, it's gone! Once I hear that basically open exhaust again I may change my mind. We'll see.
Boyd sucks. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Brian, what-exactly happened to/with your truck, (now that you can speak about it, again?) enroute to Tulsaville? |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500neil - 2007-09-10 9:28 PM
Brian, what-exactly happened to/with your truck, (now that you can speak about it, again?) enroute to Tulsaville?
There you Go.. Brian suggests he is starting to come to terms with Life with the Truck again,, And you go wanting him to Reminise the Horrors of the Road Trip to Tulsa,, If you really wanted to upset him, All you had to say was Rear End and U-Haul.... LOL |
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Expert
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Location: Blythewood, SC | AAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE HORROR!!!!!!!! GOTTA SELL!! GOTTA SELL!!!!
Edited by 57plymouth 2007-09-10 5:11 PM
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Expert
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Location: Blythewood, SC | http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15146&...
Dat's the whole story Neil. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...but, but, but: that's the SHORT version!
What REALLY happened? |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500neil - 2007-09-10 10:30 PM
...but, but, but: that's the SHORT version!
What REALLY happened?
That IS the Short VERSION... I can remember the Beginning of that Story having a LOT More Words when he First Arrived in T-Town,, The Fs and Bs made it a Better Version ....
LOL |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Thatsawhat I sed....
btw, I went back & looked @ Brain's Messy Belvie pics, & you know what?
There's a lot of good usable parts still on her!
Once Ultra 1 gets done, deflowering her, the lucky-family (Chinese meal joke) can just go ahead & part her out!
Almost all the rubber & plastic & stainless parts look to be fine, like the heater housing, and brake/accelerator pedals, tail lamps
and trim pieces.
btw(ii) , the battery had black colored battery caps, and I wonder if the correct battery-top-style is being re-popped, now?
Think that the battery might hold a charge? The battery cables are probably corroded, inside the rubber core; otherwize,
they look to be fine.
Meanwhile: back to the Boydster, & why he is so beloved, by all........
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7400
Location: northern germany |
Meanwhile: back to the Boydster, & why he is so beloved, by all........
just look at one of his creatures, the "chezoom" once a 57 Ch**y. we should be happy this ... isn't into mopars. hopefully the tulsa plymouth didn't gave him any wrong ideas....
Edited by 1960fury 2007-09-10 7:22 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | HEY DID I MENTION BOYD SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dauanes ass
Jimmy and we all RULE |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | Hey I just wanted to see if any one went to that show at the monkey boys had and if anyone got to tell them how embare assed they all should be. But they wouldn't understand that anyway. And exactly why is it called American HotRod when they dont know what one of them looks like? Just a thought from some nut that knows boyd cotfishington SUCKS. Sorry to give it a sticky but I felt an obligation. :o)
Jimmy |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ..You got this thread all.....STICKY ?????? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 370
Location: Mishawaka, IN. | Hey Neil sorry about that those things just happen now and again. I hope some got in boyds ear or maybe his fat headed eyeballs. If boyd wants to see real hot rods, oh never mind he dont we all know that. Hey boyd sucks my call out for today. LOL
Jimmy |
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