1958 Dodge 2 door California HWY PATROL Complete car $8,000. 361 cu.in. motor with 2-4 barrel carburetor, manifold (stock), Body very little rust in floor. Needs 2 tail lites. VERY RARE CAR Few of a kind. (Plus I have a 1959 Dodge 4door sedan $1000.00). Call me for more info @ (951) 201-6339
Posted 2009-03-06 7:45 PM (#166009 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
OK; just got off da-fone with the nice-guy seller, Norm.
he's going to send me, to post here, a bunch of detail pics, including the P/T plate, BUT, for anyone having 80 'loose'
$100-bills, lying around, this is a car that you should go get, ASAP.
Altho I haven't seen the P/T plate, I'm convinced that it's a real Super-D pursuit car.
The BUMMER is that the Certified 150mph speedo was liberated from the car a long time ago, and some other malfeasors
purloined the dual AFB's right after Norm bought it, for $7.5K, three years ago.
The car, after being discharged from CHP service, was taken to El Paso(!), where it was covered-stored, for 30 years.
After that, it was taken to Roswell, NM (!!!---check out THAT location, on your Google-Earth) , where Norm bought it, and
transported it to SanBerdoo County, CA
Norm has 20+ cars, and is going to be getting 4 more, including a 40-Merc(?) and an English taxi, from Vegas(!),. and a
Crosley Hotshot, too.
The only other FWDLK he's got is that 1959 Coronet 4-dr sedan, that is intact and which is reportedly a wonderful parts
car, and, a restoration project.---for $1K; that's a world-class bargain.
BTW, this 58 does have the CHP-specific high-mounted rear view mirror, 6-leaf springs, HD T/bars, and all of the CHP
equipment mounting holes (but none of the cop-car electronic stuff).
One of Norm's friends reportedly just bought a Super D500 Hemi engine, complete. I'm trying to find out if it's a vintage
56 or a 57 iteration.
Norm's friendy, and says that he's been getting a LOT of telephone calls from the various car-ads that he's posted, on
Craigslist.
And, Gary, my wallet should be a couple-thou(+) lighter, sometime next week, with a new trannie installed in Horrie.
Posted 2009-03-22 3:49 PM (#167984 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
Well, this car is the real-deal.
Nice to see that at least one, and probably, many-all(?) of the CHP pursuits were built in L.A. .
That's the 'good' news.
L.A. P/T plates are notoriously bereft of a lot of neat info, like D500 provenance, and other things.
About all that this P/T confirms is that this car is a 1958 Coronet 2-dr V/8 Sedan model, with a left outside mirror
on it, which was Scheduled to have been built o.o.a. 1/2/58, which had the Ivory/black interior and a Special Order
999 paint job, apparently in the CHP motif (which appears to be the "64", under the "SP" column).
I've asked the seller to send me some pics of the car's 6 leaf springs (actually: 5 1/2, but, that counts as being six leafs).
One MAJOR disappointment, however, is seeing that the passenger's side exhaust manifold does not have the rear carb
choke's heat-transfer-tube's cast-in 'boss' , on it.
Unless the L.A. (police) Super-D's had some other means of transferring initial exhaust heat to the primary carb, then this car
was built as a single-4 D500, and not a Super D500.
I'll send Clive a pic of what I'm talking about, to post here.
ALTHOUGH....if this car merely had had one AFB carb on it, I wonder why anyone would have been inspired
to liberate that single carb & intake; usually, it's the dual-carbs which get to be removed from the cars.
Posted 2009-03-22 10:51 PM (#168041 - in reply to #168040) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
Jeez, that car has really been picked clean of a lot of the neat stuff! After seeing the photos, that price seems ultra super sky high! What is the inverted U mount for? The one located behind the grille, in front of the (missing) radiator and the (missing) fan...
Posted 2009-03-23 3:32 AM (#168051 - in reply to #168042) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Regular
Posts: 67
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Hi, This is for Neil, I went and took some shots of my 58 Coronet 2 door post D500. I saved this car from Montana about 4 years ago. It has 37,000 mile on it, options include a power seat, brakes and radio. I have just purchased some NOS glass for this car. Perhaps Neil can decode and tell us all. I have also included some shots of 1/2 my collection. I am 35 years old and currently have about 25 Forwardlook cars with about 10 others including a 59 Parklane convertible.
I have a 59 D500 Police engine also shots included, good for reference if someone is restoring a D500 Car. Notice it is a metallic green engine with silver Water pump and accessories, Red Valve covers. I have only seen one other car that has been correct in this fashion all other ML code 383 in books etc have been silver like a Desoto engine.
Easy to build a cone with a Desoto ML code engine but this is not correct.
Nic
Posted 2009-03-23 3:46 AM (#168052 - in reply to #168042) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Regular
Posts: 67
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Hi, This is for Neil, I went and took some shots of my 58 Coronet 2 door post D500. I saved this car from Montana about 4 years ago. It has 37,000 mile on it, options include a power seat, brakes and radio. I have just purchased some NOS glass for this car. Perhaps Neil can decode and tell us all. I have also included some shots of 1/2 my collection. I am 35 years old and currently have about 25 Forwardlook cars with about 10 others including a 59 Parklane convertible.
I have a 59 D500 Police engine also shots included, good for reference if someone is restoring a D500 Car. Notice it is a metallic green engine with silver Water pump and accessories, Red Valve covers. I have only seen one other car that has been correct in this fashion all other ML code 383 in books etc have been silver like a Desoto engine.
Easy to build a cone with a Desoto ML code engine but this is not correct.
Nic
Posted 2009-03-23 9:28 PM (#168140 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
Hello Nic & Mike; I was outta town, very-gainfully employed, today.
Wow; incredible collection, Nic.
Shoulda checked, first, but I see you didn't post your car's Paint/Trim Plate over on the Fender Tag board,
so, I'll go have a look at it.
But first, Mike, that is the correct steering wheel and horn ring for the cop-car Dodges; really
one of the few pure cop-car items still on this car.
That bracket-guy on it obviously held some sort of cop-paraphernalia on it, altho I don't think
that it might have held the siren, but, that would be a good location for it (well out of the
direct ear-shot of the driver).
Cop cars did get all-stripped out, except for spotlights and rear view mirrors, and engines, when
they were brought out of service and sold to the public.
Now, back to Nic's car:
In no particular order: You got a single-4 D500 engine, in a Coronet 2-dr sedan (that's the "331" BDY
code) which looks like it was scheduled to have been built o.o.a. 12/28(?)/57, so, it's a
relatively-sorta early model year built car.
I can't see, on your pic, what the color-coding is, but all-silver would be 1KKK.
The interior color has me fooled, as I've got a "122" TRM code assigned for a Custom Royal convertible
with the notation :'bronze/gold', which I also don't understand.
Is your car, which has the standard Coronet interior "blue" colored????
If so, I'll amend my records, asap.
Now, for the other goodies on it: in no order, again: all Solex glass, with a tinted windshield,
Car Service (meaning the car was prepped for a possible factory drive-away (the Broadcast Sheet
and/or IBM card copy will confirm its probable owner-drive-away status); power SEAT (in a
Coro 2-dr sedan?--yes....); power brakes and Torqueflite trannie, "Convenience Group" of optional
equipment (foam rear seat [again, in a CORO 2-dr sedan!], variable speed wipers, Jiffy Jet,
hand brake, map, glove box and trunk lights, and a vanity mirror); and the "Radio Group" ( radio, heater,
back up lights, day/nite mirror, and LT o.s. rear view mirror.)
There could be a lot of other OEM options, but these are the only ones which the P/T plate confirms.
BTW, your 59 D500 engine is/was a real single-4 engine, at least, as confirmed by its
passenger's side exhaust manifold, which does not have the rear-carb manifold-heat-tube
mounting boss on it, as shown in the other pic that Clive posted up above here.
That unique exhaust manifold was used in 1958-1959, on the Super-D's and on the other
dual-carb models, and it/they are VERY rare, and is an easy way, at a glance, to confirm whether
or not a dual-carb Dodge might be a real Super-D, or a real Fury/300/Adventurer, too .
That dual-carb manifold, to a knowledgeable buyer, may be worth $2,000.00. The driver's
side exhaust manifold is the same, for all models. It's the passenger's side guy, which
is extremely valuable.
BTW (ii) : what is your 58's engine's stamping-number (on the flat area, under the distributor)?
That's a NICE, very well optioned 2-dr sedan (D500) there, Nic!
Posted 2009-03-24 1:58 AM (#168179 - in reply to #166001) Subject: RE: 1958 Dodge CHP
Regular
Posts: 67
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Hi Neil, Thanks for the prompt response to the posting.
Response to your questions :
Colour is a sandy gold colour, Interior is coronet gold with silver inserts. It is standard coronet as I had a 58 2 door hardtop with the same interior. The horn ring in this car appears to be painted, is that correct also it does not have the knights head. I have a Custom Royal horn ring that is plated with the head. I would light to repaint the ring to factory if that is correct? You input would be appreciated.
As for Dual quads I picked up a set off Craigslist last year for my 58 Fury 350 car
for $175.00 complete with carbs, they are still out there. I also found a L350 engine in New Zealand under a house for NZD $400.00 complete with reground crank and new bearings etc.
I will not be going to my factory until tomorrow but the code on the engine will be L360. I also have quite a few of these engines that I have saved for different projects.
I have found a 57 Custom Royal convertible less engine, can you tell from the P.T code if the car was a 325 Poly or Hemi. I ring the guy once a week but he hasn't confirmed a price, you know you have to play the game!!
I also have in my collection a factory right hand drive 58 Dodge Custom Royal 4 door sedan. I will take some shots of the tags to see if you can tell me where the car was assembled and the options etc.
Posted 2009-03-24 11:06 AM (#168204 - in reply to #168179) Subject: RE: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
Nic, that is a terrific collection and a really neat '58 Dodge D500 Club Sedan! I think your paint is "sand metallic" like Chris Hullinger's Beige / Sand two-door hardtop. Memory is fading, but I think Beige is code M and Sand is code N (or vice versa). Yours should be 1MMM or 1NNN - I can't read the code either.
Of course, it is rare to have the D500 and a power seat in your car. Either option is pretty rare, but put together in a Club Sedan is very special.
Neil - on the CHP steering wheel, I wonder why they would do that on a CHP cruiser? That steering wheel was unavailable in any regular-order '58 Dodge. I think that wheel and ring was the base set up for Plymouth Plaza and (maybe) Savoy, correct? Certainly not available in a Belvedere.
Posted 2009-03-24 9:46 PM (#168277 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
OK; Nic; so my file notes regarding "122" being bronze/gold is correct; kinda weird that I had a "Custom Royal"
convertible registered as having that code; that convertible 'must' have actually been a CORONET convertible, as the Coronet
convertible and the Coro 2-dr sedan, would both have the 'standard' interior, with the straight-backed seats.
A sandy-gold color would have the PNT code : "Z".....is that what your car has?
Yeah, a Coronet would have a silver(?) painted horn ring, while the Roy's & CRL's had the chromed guys.
Nic, If you can, you should make every effort to try to remove/obtain the passenger's side exhaust manifold, for that 2-4 set up
that you've scored, as you'll need it, to run the heat-line from it, to the rear carb's choke.
Yes, I can confirm whether a 57 Dodge (or 58-60, for that matter) was a D500, or not, from its P/T plate.
All I can say, about that Dodge police horn ring (and steering wheel???) is that it was apparently used for generic-cop usage.
This same horn ring (and steering wheel, IIRC) was used on that '57 Missouri Highway patrol car, that was recently
discussed on this Craigslist Board, too.
This is funny: I've got a few episodes of Highway patrol on VHS, at home, so I went back and looked to see what kinds of
2-dr sedans that they were 'running'.
Turns out (duh), that they were using just white-doored black 2-dr sedans, some of which were D500's.
The show's cars had 14" wheels (with full OEM wheelcovers; not the required 15" ers, with 1956 Dog Dish hubcaps), a LOW-mounted
rear view mirror, NO outside rear view mirrors (the CHP, annd others, installed the miirrors up-close, on the doors, by the vent windows).
The cars do have the (dummy, for sure) quarter panel whip-antenna, a single parcel-shelf hazard-light, and dual spotlights.
But, and I looked for this, too: the steering wheels have the standard-looking OEM horn rings, and not the
cop-car horn ring (and steering wheel).
That was sure a blood thirsty bunch of cops; not afraid to use their guns, and they always inflicted fatal gun shot injuries,
and with the last scene always showing B. Crawford walking casually away, toward his patrol car, from the obviously, and
bloodlessly-dead perp , left lying on the ground, behind him.
Posted 2009-03-25 3:33 AM (#168296 - in reply to #166001) Subject: RE: 1958 Dodge CHP
Regular
Posts: 67
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
The Paint code is 1NNN and I am sure that the instrument cluster, glovebox and steering wheel horn ring were all painted white. This car has not been played with at all. This is the first time I have seen this.
Posted 2009-03-25 6:49 PM (#168353 - in reply to #168341) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
So what do you think of the value of that CHP car? My gut instinct, as it sits, is about $1,500 to maybe $3,500. It is a really neat car if it is all complete. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
Posted 2009-03-25 6:58 PM (#168356 - in reply to #168353) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
We-all have to take the current market-economy into consideration, and the general demand for tangible-things,
as compared to the desire to hold on to liquid assets.
The seller needs cash more than he does the physical retention of the car.
This particular car would make an interesting and worthy restoration hobby project. The extent to which the restorer
is able to make a monetary profit on its restoration depends on how well and accurately the car is restored, and depends
on how much restoration work that its owner can provide, which he would not need to subcontract, to other 'shops'.
Posted 2009-03-25 10:29 PM (#168372 - in reply to #168353) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: Parts Unknown
Lancer Mike - 2009-03-26 3:49 PM
So what do you think of the value of that CHP car? My gut instinct, as it sits, is about $1,500 to maybe $3,500. It is a really neat car if it is all complete. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
*********************************
I have offered my 66 Coronet police cruiser for $1500 now for two years with no takers. It is a complete, very original 39,000 mile car. The interior looks like it has never been sat in. Muscle car era vehicles arguably have a higher demand than fins. What does that tell us ?
**********************************
There will be some very hard to find / expensive parts to find just to make this car whole again. I would consider it at $1500 as is, but anything more and other options seem more attractive.
Posted 2009-03-26 12:22 AM (#168381 - in reply to #168372) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
Doc, I appreciate your estimate. The only reason I even threw out $3,500 is because I just don't know the police car market. It is a speciality market and I just don't know how crazy some of these people are. However, you know this sub-market and if you lean toward the $1,500 end of the range - I think his $8,000+ price is way out of the ballpark.
You just never know, someone may fork over that much, but I would say $1,500 is more in line with how the car sits today.
Posted 2009-03-26 2:17 AM (#168392 - in reply to #168381) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: Parts Unknown
Well, that is just what I am saying, .... with as much critical mass as is missing, it is hardly much more than just a plain jane civilian 2S. All that missing stuff will represent the bulk of your restoration troubles. I would expect a correct D-Q system and a D-500 emblem to cost double the $1500, at least ..... AND be a real hassle in finding. When the starting "hulk" costs eight large, the starting point with all parts there and accounted for is going to be staggering .... THEN the restoration costs begin !
Posted 2009-03-26 4:19 PM (#168444 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
Brent, I'm not convinced that this car had two 4-barrels on it, originally, based upon its passenger side exhaust manifold.
Cop-parts finding probably won't be as difficult as scoring 1958 DeSoto parts--oh, so you do know where to find those parts?
So do the cop-car club members....
This car definitely has some considerable intrinsic value as being X-CHP, over that of any other similar 2-dr sedan.
A generalized Craigslist posting may not expose the car to its properly interested buyers; the only reason that it's here is
because someone put its listing on this Board. I'd never have known about its existence, otherwise.
The car is worth whatever an interested buyer wants to pay for it. It may well be worth $7K to a dedicated cop-car restorer.
Posted 2009-03-27 12:50 AM (#168499 - in reply to #168444) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: Parts Unknown
Neil,
Methinks your everpresent argumentative nature suggests you are a closet case attorney or something.
Naturally, someone, somewhere, could possibly do something that would break from generalities. No one can argue that.
Just speaking from experience ..... I used to have a wrecking yard with nothing but finned cars .... I sold parts to all sorts and some groups were notorious pains in the axx for squeezing blood out of a nickel. Studebaker guys come to mind as being horrible mizers and wasters of a seller's time. I have also noticed the same in regards to the cop car group. Just a bunch of tire kicking whiners who want everything for nothing. That has just been my experience. Do they know where parts are ? Some might. My experience is that they are not near the tight organization we Forward Lookers are.
Just some generalities and personal experiences.
I agree, the CHP provenance is a major plus. Even as a single four, it would be a hoot to have a car like this. If it were a hardtop, it would be downright irresistable ..... hard to beat that slippery roofline on your car !
Posted 2009-03-27 4:26 PM (#168543 - in reply to #168526) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
I enjoy seeing restored police cars fromt the '30's, '40's, and '50's, but I would be very careful about buying any police vehicle. My general impression is that these cars were thoroughly abused when new (if they are anything like their modern-day counterparts). Police departments routinely auction away their retired vehicles and I don't think I would ever buy one of those. Maybe state police take more care of their cars?
Posted 2009-03-27 6:31 PM (#168549 - in reply to #168543) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: Parts Unknown
Arguing and argumentative are two different things. I am only poking fun at your taking the contrary position often.
As for cop cars being abused ... if you are going to go all the way through a car, does it really matter how worn out it is ? Sheesh, .... my car had no floors left. I had to replace the bottom 6" of the cowl ! Abuse by driver or abuse by neglect ..... mine was simply subjected to a life in NY and WI and retired at ten years old to sit under a pile of boxes ! This CHP car we are talking about looks "pristine" by comparison.
Posted 2009-03-27 7:46 PM (#168559 - in reply to #168549) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
Mike, that's what "restoration" is all about!----repairing and fixing-up the car, to its in-service condition.
I'd rather buy an honest #4 - #3 car, than a newly-minted #1 car, if I didn't already have complete faith in the
restorer's ability to do all the necessary mechanical renovations, besides having merely made the car LOOK pretty.
That's a major part of the attraction of Police Cars: the fact that they were special built, to withstand some hazardous duty service, and, that they were not created to live a pampered life, like a lot of civilian convertibles were
treated, sitting there, in their heated garages....
Posted 2009-03-28 4:04 PM (#168625 - in reply to #168587) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
The ("Certified") speedometer is a real non-issue, as it can be installed at any time, in a matter of minutes,
once it may be discovered, or, after a speedo-face might be custom-painted, with those words appearing on it.
The only tough parts to find would be the headliner material, and they are available, albeit probably in miscellaneous
pieces, from several wrecking yards, and, the intake/carb(s), which will be expensive but not impossible to find,
especially if this car were built as a single-4, and not a Super-D .
This car represents a great hobby-opportunity for someone, or a business opportunity for someone who can do
a lot of the work, himself, quickly, and who may have ready-contacts within the well-established cop-car universe .
Posted 2009-03-30 6:44 PM (#168818 - in reply to #168625) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
This is a two door sedan, so the headliner material should be fabric, correct? The hardtops had the hard board headliner which is difficult to replace.
I have never seen a 150 mph speedometer for a 1957-1958 Dodge - does anyone have a picture?
Posted 2009-03-30 11:05 PM (#168858 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Member
Posts: 48
Reference the bracket shown in the front behind the grill...........that was for the outside radio speaker so the officers could hear the calls while out of the car. As a matter of "routine" officers did not call in every stop........only if there was cause for concerne. Regarding the steering wheel............CHP specs called for a 360 degree horn ring in order to activate the siren while driving and or in pursuit. I know this car. Personally, I think it was the one that was used in the Motor Trend article in '58 that was equipped with 2-4s and, apparently, an actual CHP car. I would find it un likely that the CHP purchased all their vehicles with 2-4s as the specs at the time specified single 4bbl. Rare car indeed...........especially if it was the actual car used for testing in the mag.
Posted 2009-03-30 11:25 PM (#168861 - in reply to #168858) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
Good information, Jerry - maybe Neil can get that article and post a few pictures. I remember seeing photographs of the Missouri Highway Patrol cars. It sounds like California required the 360 wheel, but maybe other law enforcement agencies did not.
Posted 2009-03-31 8:50 AM (#168879 - in reply to #168052) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Expert
Posts: 1480
Location: Australia
SportSuburban - 2009-03-23 3:46 AM
Hi, This is for Neil, I went and took some shots of my 58 Coronet 2 door post D500. I saved this car from Montana about 4 years ago. It has 37,000 mile on it, options include a power seat, brakes and radio. I have just purchased some NOS glass for this car. Perhaps Neil can decode and tell us all. I have also included some shots of 1/2 my collection. I am 35 years old and currently have about 25 Forwardlook cars with about 10 others including a 59 Parklane convertible.
I have a 59 D500 Police engine also shots included, good for reference if someone is restoring a D500 Car. Notice it is a metallic green engine with silver Water pump and accessories, Red Valve covers. I have only seen one other car that has been correct in this fashion all other ML code 383 in books etc have been silver like a Desoto engine.
Easy to build a cone with a Desoto ML code engine but this is not correct.
Nic
oh, i adore '59 mercurys... parklane- top of the range and all... very nice! adriana
my suburban has its rear view mirror mounted at the top in between the sun visors for some reason, just like the dodge cop car has... maybe oscar is actually a cop car? a 225 slant six cop car, oh how lovely... lol
Posted 2009-03-31 3:30 PM (#168896 - in reply to #168879) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
That M/T issue is very well known, in part because there is a photo of the silver/blue(?) CRL 4-dr in a small photo of it
on the cover.
There is a really fine road test article on the CHP & the D500, and another one on how the CHP selected/tested its
prospective pursuit cars.
Jerry, as there were a lot of identical 58 pursuits created, I wonder whether/how this-here car might somehow have been the
article-test-car.
BUT, you failed to mention one thing that might be consistent with this car's possibly having served as a "PR"-mobile:
Unless this car got a rear-end repaint/touch-up, it doesn't appear to have a Unit-Number showing on its decklid area---
unless the CHP routinely removed that number, when a car got retired from active service.
Posted 2009-03-31 3:36 PM (#168897 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
Adriana; your car's top-mounted rear view mirror may be very-valuable, to a cop car restorer!
E.G.: it wasn't posted on this thread, but Clive sorta-recently posted a photo of a 1957 (clone, apparently) "CHP
pursuit" , which is/was lacking certain CHP-specific details (like: 15" wheels!) , including its having had a low-mounted
rear view mirror on it, instead of the high-mounted rear view mirror.
Posted 2009-03-31 11:09 PM (#168938 - in reply to #166001) Subject: RE: 1958 Dodge CHP
Member
Posts: 48
Neil...............I tend to agree with you re: a PR car. I know that, back in the day, "special" equipment was given to the CHP for test purposes. Hard to tell....the MT car may have been for PR but then put into service. Remember, back then commanders (Captains, lieutenants) drove black and whites for use as home retention. (before they were issued unmarked cars in the mid 70s) If you were a commander back then wouldn't you one of those for your use only? I remember when the Camaros first came out......area commanders drove them until they got tired of them. Re the "special equipment"...........Ford Motor Company pulled 5 70 Mercs from the fleet, installed experimental NASCAR engines in them and when the units reached 75,000 miles, then the NASCAR engines were pulled by FoMoCo and the original 428 installed and the car auctioned to the public. FoMoCo also put the 4.6 engine in some test CHP cars (auto theft) before the engine was introduced to the public. Problem was.....those units had to go to the dealer every 1,000 miles to download the computers. Test cars are a pain. Constant documentation. Officers tire of that quickly once the novelty wears off. Newest test cars..........Dodge Magnums w/the hemi. They will be assigned to selected areas in the state to compile data. Along the same line......bear in mind that Motor Transport/Sacramento is not in love with the idea of switching to Dodge as, for many years, they have had the same cars to equip (Crown Vics). That's one of the reasons the Dodge is being "tested". I had talked to Norm (58 Dodge guy) at length lasy year when he tried to sell it to me. It would be a daunting project and you would really have to love it for the history and uniqueness (like me) BUT I have too many other projects and, like many other, think he wants way too much money for it.
Posted 2009-04-01 1:27 AM (#168947 - in reply to #168938) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Expert
Posts: 1480
Location: Australia
oh i was only joking actually... i dont know whether my rear view mirror is factory mounted or if the original owner did it... ill have to take some pics... cheers adriana
Posted 2009-04-01 3:59 PM (#168986 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
Jerry, last May, for our annual Mule Days celebration, there was a PR-Charger on display; it was all-white, with custom
'CHP'-lettering on it; had the 3.8 engine in it, however.
What leads you to believe that Norm's car might not have been a regular service vehicle (that fact that it DID survive?)
I'm really curious as to whether it had one, or both, carbs on it.
If the car had been built in Detroit, the P/T plate would have confirmed its D500 status. Its passenger-side exhaust manifold
(or, at least, the manifold that's on it NOW) is one of the single-carb variety; maybe the guy who removed the intake/carb(s)
also, astutely, replaced the dual-carb manifold with the single-carb unit that's on it, now.
Adriana: please show us your car's high-mounted mirror---lotsa detail, please.
Posted 2009-04-01 5:04 PM (#168997 - in reply to #168986) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Member
Posts: 48
Neil......yes, probably the fact that it did survive. When I talked to Norm I asked him several of the obvious re : the spotlights, screw holes under the dash and holes in the package tray. In the photo it shows where the whip antenna was mounted........unusual.... unless it was placed in service. When I saw the original photo last year it showed the engine w/a dual 4bbl manifold but no carburetors. In the absence of any definitive documentation as to VIN , etc.....we can only guess whether it was really in service. These are just my opinions based on research and past experiences. In 1958 I was 15 years old.......I didn't REALLY know CHP until I got my drivers license. After many cites and "brushes" with the law I figured "why fight 'em......join 'em!!" My 56 Coronet...........all body work done, all necessary equipment except the r/side spotlight mount bracket. Can't find one. Before you guys kill me......I cloned a 55 DeSoto hemi to look like a 315 Dodge. The original engine (poly) and trans was MIA anyway and, after all, these cars were made to drive, enjoy and have fun. I'm satisfied that, back in the day, this was a real CHP unit. Too many telltale signs.
Posted 2009-04-02 5:08 PM (#169113 - in reply to #166001) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca
Now, that's a good question!
The 57 D501 race cars carried the heavier-duty 1956 Imperial wheel spindles on them, which provided 9/16" studs, on 5.5" circle
diameters (the same size as installed the 1956 D-500-1 race cars).
The 1956 standard 15" wheels had 1/2" studs on 4.5" circle diameters.
The standard 1957 14" wheels also carried the 4.5" circle diameters, so, the standard 1956 1/2"/4.5" wheels will bolt
up to the 1957 wheel spindles.
Now, for the brake shoe-assemblies, the 1957 D501 AMA Specifications sheets state that the brake linings were 12.6 x 2.5 x .20 "
so, those were obviously larger than a 14" wheel could accommodate.
The largest brake shoe that the 14" wheels could handle was 12 x 2.5 x .20" linings.
SO, it is logical that the 1957 PD-cars, with the 15" wheel option, which were mated to the standard-Dodge wheel spindles, also had the same 12.6 x 2.5 x .20 brake shoes, that the D501/1956 D-500-1 had on them, ALTHOUGH, they COULD have had only the standard 1956 15" brake shoes on them, which were 11.5 x 2 x .20" .
The standard 1956 Dodge wheel size was 15 x 5" . The standard '56 D500 wheel was 15 x 5.5" and the '56 D-500-1 wheel was 15 x 6.5" (same wheel as used on the 1957 D501).
The question then becomes: can a 1956 5.5 inch wide standard (D500) wheel accommodate the bad-boy
12.6 x 2.5 x .20 brake shoes/linings ?
Both linings were 2.5" wide.
So, the 1957-1958 15 " wheel Cop Car brake linings were probably the 12.6 x 2.5 x .20" , but, they could have been the lesser 11.5 x 2 x .20" guys (altho the latter appears to be highly unlikely, for HD-usage)
Posted 2009-05-03 12:09 AM (#172623 - in reply to #169113) Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge CHP
Location: The Mile High City
It is back on the list. This time he says it is complete? Maybe he found a bunch of the parts that were missing???? This deal doesn't pass the smell test.