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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
  
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | This is for The DOC, As he set the Challenge.. LOL
The Description and INFO is Very Vague..
http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/files/12240500/12240996.html
Year: 1958
Make: Dodge
Model: Custom Royal Convertible
Vehicle Location: SUMMERLAND , BR
Description:
1958 Dodge Custom Royal convertible,
Gas fuel,
Exterior: Red,
Interior: Red,
Power Steering, Power Brakes, Power Mirrors, Tinted Windows, 1 Owner, Garage Kept, Non Smoker Good car. Top handmade.Only 6 cars of this type! Call for Price.
Located in SUMMERLAND, BRITISH C0V0H.
Contact Ralph at 250-404-0121 for more information.
View The Rest Of This Seller's Inventory:
http://www.nmsell.com (opens in new window)
 (356.jpg)
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 356.jpg (14KB - 73 downloads)
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Location: The Mile High City | This one already sold to Max in Austria (a site member) and is on it's way. Max set me a few photos of this spectacularly restored Dodge -
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 01.JPG)
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 02.JPG)
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 03.JPG)
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 04.JPG)
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 05.JPG)
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 06.JPG)
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 08.JPG)
 (Maxim Red and Silver convertible 07.JPG)
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Maxim Red and Silver convertible 01.JPG (83KB - 89 downloads)
Maxim Red and Silver convertible 02.JPG (80KB - 81 downloads)
Maxim Red and Silver convertible 03.JPG (109KB - 79 downloads)
Maxim Red and Silver convertible 04.JPG (88KB - 77 downloads)
Maxim Red and Silver convertible 05.JPG (117KB - 72 downloads)
Maxim Red and Silver convertible 06.JPG (76KB - 84 downloads)
Maxim Red and Silver convertible 08.JPG (87KB - 89 downloads)
Maxim Red and Silver convertible 07.JPG (107KB - 80 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | that one is already mine:)) |
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Expert
Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Hi Max, Very nice Dodge you have bought. Look a very nice renovaiting and I like the colors red/silver/gray metalic. |
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Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | Thank you! the wheels are not corect and exaust pipes are custom... but it is nice, the rest is all original. |
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | WOW! And I thought that black 59 on eBay was tops! You have the best looking Dodge of any year in the world, IMO. The colors and styling are to die for. I would love to see some more photos when you get it, possibly larger ones, love to make that the desktop photo on my computer. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | I love the color combination! This car was in my home province of British Columbia, ( BC ), but nowhere near me, that I would have ever seen this car. The 58 Custom Royal seats were upholstered nicer than the 59s, IMHO. The 58 cloth sections were pleated, with a vinyl button in the backrest section, and outlined with silver mylar vinyl welting. The 59s were much plainer for some reason. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I was waiting for Lancer-Mike to come in, here, but, since he hasn't: unless this is a "999" special order
paint scheme, the "Deluxe Two Tone" scheme of Silver Metallic-over Crimson (it would appear as PNT code
3KPP) was not a factory-standard available color-option, and, whatever black cloth is in its interior, it is not
1958 Dodge Custom Royal material.
Now, as far as it's being a real D500: let's see the rest of the P/T plate.
Also, those little 'dooies' on the seat backs for some reason, don't look quite right-shaped/sized,
to me....gotta go check on them....
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-08 8:20 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3069
Location: Scotland | here is the brochure interior pic,super car though
 (dod58bch.jpg)
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dod58bch.jpg (226KB - 92 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 3069
Location: Scotland | and a '58 from Sweden that looks re-done differently too
 (2009FalunCruisingDge58conv.jpg)
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2009FalunCruisingDge58conv.jpg (178KB - 131 downloads)
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Location: The Mile High City | I suppose I am a bit cautious here - Max, a member of the site, bought the car and it is being shipped to Austria right now to join his collection. For my own purposes, it would be interesting to see the identification plate on this car, but until Max asks to know all the details, I am content to say that this is a very beautiful '58 Dodge convertible and I hope he enjoys it - I know I would.
I have been looking at pictures of '58 Dodges since before I knew what the internet was and I don't believe I have ever seen this car. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Does this car have a lift kit under it ? 
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Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | The '58 has original springs which have been rebuilt and original torsion bars in front. Definitely has no lift kit . |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: Pau, S-W France | And another CR convertible !! From France, 1st owner Charles Aznavour (french singer). Speedo in kmh. Non original colors.
 (cust-royal (6) [].JPG)
 (cust-royal (8) [].JPG)
 (cust-royal (3) [].JPG)
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cust-royal (6) [].JPG (241KB - 75 downloads)
cust-royal (8) [].JPG (177KB - 129 downloads)
cust-royal (3) [].JPG (167KB - 96 downloads)
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Location: Parts Unknown | parat11 - 2010-03-10 7:14 AM
The '58 has original springs which have been rebuilt and original torsion bars in front. Definitely has no lift kit .
*********************************
I suspect it is 4WD. Sits WAY too high ! 
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Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-03-09 10:23 AM
parat11 - 2010-03-10 7:14 AM
The '58 has original springs which have been rebuilt and original torsion bars in front. Definitely has no lift kit .
*********************************
I suspect it is 4WD. Sits WAY too high !
NO WAY !!! CRANK DEM BARS UP ! ! ! ! WHOO ! 
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| Good God, Neil, you would find fault with a solid gold ingot! First you knock the fuel lines on the black '59 Convert and now the colors and interior of this gorgeous '58 Convert! Enough already....we get it that nothing can pass the "Neil" test and it is growing increasingly OLD!!! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hello, Jim; long-time; no-bitching.
Checked my 1958 Ross Roy last night, and the only two color combinations for Crimson are Ebony and Eggshell.
The only two combinations for Silver (metallic) are Navy and Charcoal.
The Paint/Trim plate (and the Broadcast Sheet and/or its IBM card copy) will confirm the car's D500 status; since
it's carrying only one carb in it, it may well be a real single-4 model.
The IBM card copy will also confirm the car's OEM engine-stamping-number on it, too.
I would be surprised if this car was originally red; the firewall is red (a good sign, however) but the engine compartment
(and the trunk area) have had considerable 'renovations' be done to them, and the interior was obviously extensively redone
(there should be a distinctive seat-beading treatment installed in the sheet vinyl in the rear seat back, too, as well as its having
the wrong upholstery cloth be installed in it) so, this car was probably in relatively poor physical condition, before it was 'renovated'
and, the renovator apparently did not know or care about the car's correctness or originality.
But, oh yeah, it does look real pretty.
BTW, the Ross Roy data 'books', in 1958, cost $17.30, which would be something like $175.00, today.
They've held their value, over the years.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-09 3:16 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Pau, S-W France | d500neil - 2010-03-09 9:07 PM
The only two combinations for Silver (metallic) are Navy and Charcoal.
Like the french one !!!
Here are two pics before restoring.
 (58CRL-orig1 [800x600].jpg)
 (58CRL-orig3 [800x600].jpg)
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58CRL-orig1 [800x600].jpg (95KB - 73 downloads)
58CRL-orig3 [800x600].jpg (75KB - 83 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That's sweet; Philippe, you wouldn't have access to this car's P/T info, wouldja?
You can PM me with it, if you'd like.
It's somewhat ironic that you say "before restoration", because nowadays people and
collectors are (finally!) appreciating ORIGINAL 'surviving' cars !!--and this car
certainly looks to be a worthy Surviving example.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-09 4:08 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Pau, S-W France | d500neil - 2010-03-09 9:17 PM
That's sweet; Philippe, you wouldn't have access to this car's P/T info, wouldja?
I'll try in the next weeks as my friend doesn't live near my home ... |
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Location: The Mile High City | The French car has what I consider to be the correct seat buttons for a 1958 Custom Royal. The advertisement and Max's car have what appear to be very similar buttons. I have never seen others like them. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike, IIRC, that prototype 58 CR vert has the 1957-style (front-mounted) dashboard rear view mirror in it.
It may well have prototype seat upholstery buttons on it, too.
Have you, or ANYONE, ever seen a radio escutcheon-plate like this French car has on it?
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-09 3:37 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | carjock - 2010-03-09 11:16 AM
Good God, Neil, you would find fault with a solid gold ingot! First you knock the fuel lines on the black '59 Convert and now the colors and interior of this gorgeous '58 Convert! Enough already....we get it that nothing can pass the "Neil" test and it is growing increasingly OLD!!!
I agree its a beautiful car, but IMHO Neil is only giving this information to spread the knowlege around, and I appreciate that. We all benefit when we learn. Things I also noticed on the car are the incorrectness of the seat buttons and the fact that they should be "drawn in" to the cloth somewhat, and cloth itself is wrong, but close. BUT it is a beautiful car, and I would love to own it. My first car was a 58 CRL 2 door HT. My own present car is certainly not showroom correct in some areas and I freely admit its discrepancies. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Phil: ALSO ask him to check up-behind the glove box; he may just be in for a PLEASANT surprise....
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Thanks, Ian; we also may learn something about the 'history' of that unique radio escutcheon, which certainly
looks to fit the dashboard perfectly, and which appears to resemble closely the texture of the dash inserts.
BOTH the blue and the Charcoal verts seem to have that same escutcheon in them.
The blue vert shows the seat buttons to have a chrome-surround to them.
They are recessed into the seat because they are tied-back into the seat frame; altho they can and
do spin around, as seen in the back seat of the vert.
In MT's review of a 57 CR sedan D500, the article says that its seat-button was "torn off by an infuriated tester"
into whose back, the seat button was digging...apparently because it was not sufficiently recessed into the seat back.
The red convertible's occupants might experience a similar occurrence.
A 'funny' thing, about 58 CRL seat cloth, especially in black, is that it is readily available, either from Original Auto Interiors,
but, especially from SMS; it ain't rare, like the 57 CRL convertible cloth is.
When Bob Schmidt was restoring 57 Heaven's (1957, duh-) CRL vert, he 'had' to use the 57 CRL hardtop cloth in it, because
the correct vert-cloth had not been loomed-up by SMS (yet).
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-09 4:11 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Pau, S-W France | d500neil - 2010-03-09 9:35 PM
Have you, or ANYONE, ever seen a radio escutcheon-plate like this French car has on it?
The radio isn't the original radio but a "european" NOVAK radio . I think that the US radio was removed when the car was imported and replaced with a LW / MW radio. At this time the US radio hasn't LW but these waves lenghts were used in Europe.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/novak_b_495.html
Edited by Phil_the_frenchie 2010-03-09 4:53 PM
 (novak radio.jpg)
 (escut.jpg)
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novak radio.jpg (44KB - 72 downloads)
escut.jpg (46KB - 84 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | The upholstery in the blue convert is identical, color combination black & white, to my origial 58 CRL 2 door hardtop, back in 1974. |
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| Sigh, yes you guys do a great service to the vast number of FL purists out there (all 12 of them?) who actually give a s**t about the trivial bulls**t that you bring up. Any of us, and suspect that even includes Neil, would give his left one to own a car this nice. Stick to your ID plate decoding and leave people's craftmanship alone, unless only you can do better. The prices and interest in these cars speak for themselves..it must really make you feel superior to know more than the average stupid collector! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | carjock - 2010-03-09 3:39 PM
Sigh, yes you guys do a great service to the vast number of FL purists out there (all 12 of them?) who actually give a s**t about the trivial bulls**t that you bring up. Any of us, and suspect that even includes Neil, would give his left one to own a car this nice. Stick to your ID plate decoding and leave people's craftmanship alone, unless only you can do better. The prices and interest in these cars speak for themselves..it must really make you feel superior to know more than the average stupid collector!
I still maintain that there is NOTHING wrong with knowing what is correct, and incorrect for a particular year/ make / model, and if guys like Neil have the knowledge then I say share it. He didn't call the car a piece of crap - just pointed out what was not correct - and there is nothing wrong with that. Neither Neil, nor myself are purists - the car is beautiful, and as I stated I would love to own it. There just happen to be some people who like to know how a car was built, what's correct, what's not, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing that knowledge. Neil's maybe a little dry on the posts so maybe all of us can lighten up a bit on this. It's not worth the negative comments. And Neil, maybe offer a little praise on the car before you point out the discrepancies !
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Dry is good; the car, any car, will have its appearance be posted by its seller as an inducement to having someone buy
the car from him.
The car's photos don't show (necessarily) any orange peel, or paint runs, or corners-cut in any of the body-work or in the
mechanical aspects of it.
We only know what the seller cares to show us about the car.
A seller tries to present his object in the best manner available to him.
If I happen to recognize that there are any defects or deficiencies in the presentation, and/or description, of a 4-sale car,
I will point it/them out.
The fact that Jim comes on here and whines about a 4-sale car's 'renovation'--- I like that word, as it differs from 'restoration'---
being criticised speaks more to his point of view, in apparently being interested in DECEIVING potential buyers about a car's true
condition, than my point of view, in informing any potential buyers or restorers about renovation problems or issues that exist
on a 4-sale car.
This message board is VERY different from our Members Rides message board.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-09 9:01 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Philippe, that Novak radio is another of the Export-specific features, like the km-speedometer, and the heavy duty
suspensions.
Kool.....hmmm: were Novaks installed in the Export Furys, too?
And, Ian; yes, in 1958 the Custom Royal convertibles and hardtops shared 'this' upholstery.
In '57, the CRL vert cloth was (...called the) "Gotham Texture"--which was also used in the Custom
Sierra wagons.
The '57 hardtop cloth (looking like a herringbone pattern) was called "Staccato".
I forget what this 58 Custom Royal (or, the '58 Custom Sierra wagon) upholstery cloth was called.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-09 9:13 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | carjock - 2010-03-10 3:39 PM
Sigh, yes you guys do a great service to the vast number of FL purists out there (all 12 of them?) who actually give a s**t about the trivial bulls**t that you bring up. Any of us, and suspect that even includes Neil, would give his left one to own a car this nice. Stick to your ID plate decoding and leave people's craftmanship alone, unless only you can do better. The prices and interest in these cars speak for themselves..it must really make you feel superior to know more than the average stupid collector!
*************************************************************
For the conservative you claim to be, you sure do employ the classic leftist practice of shutting down those of a different opinion.
My car is not stock. Even Neil's car is not stock. Where do you get the idea this kind of discussion is some sort of direct "trespass"
against the hobby ? .... and more importantly, why do you feel compelled to appoint yourself the guy who combats such free speech ?
If you have another angle to voice, let it out ! But don't ask others to shut up. That is what the left does.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 852
Location: Etters Pa | So,
Just where in the above posts did anyone ask for the so-called purist, experts opinions on the condition on this fine car?
This is the exact reason this site has lost many many many very knowledgeable people in the last five years!
I know it has been a good while since I wasted my time posting any internet car finds that I have stumbled across while surfing the web or other classifides and it be a cold day in hell before I post any more of the ones I do find !
Edited by BHWINC 2010-03-10 7:24 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Who needs to ask ?
You (or anyone) else is free to comment on these cars in any way you see fit. You like the custom Margitrol handrails ?
Or the special dio-pepsum jibber-jabs ? Great, ... no one is keeping you from chatting it up. But to tell other people who
have invested much time and effort in educating themselves on how a factory long ago built things down to the smallest
detail that they shut up ? Your comparison is flawed ! No one is keeping YOU from expressing your opinions about the
car/s. Instead, you choose to express your opinion about OTHERS' on the list. This is a bullying tactic, plain and simple.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 852
Location: Etters Pa | and just where was anyone bullied ?, other than man that posted a few pictures of a very nice car he spent his hard earned $$$ on purchasing.
only to be torn down down by the so called experts..... Again nowhere did I read where he asked for anyones opinions.
Dance around the issue all you chose! |
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| Oh, I guess there are 3 of you now? I don't need to defend my statements of how sick this nitpicking makes me to anyone...yes, I can leave the site which I have done for the most part. But those of you who insist on pointing out your unsubstantiated opinions on what's "not right" about some innocent seller's car is sickening. And don't give me that tired old line that you're just trying to protect the poor "uninformed" buyers! Anyone buying a car like these two do not need advice about the correct bend radius on a carburetor fuel line. I will certainly go away and quit bothering you guys (especially you, Doc) but call your posts what they really are....trying to impress others with your mastery of all things FL! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I had a moment of clarity, not to say an epiphany, yesterday, which explains (to me) why Jim, and maybe others,
are so offended by the pointing-out of renovation defects and deficiencies and mis-representations about a car that
is being advertised 4-sale.
Jim is associating with the cars' SELLERS, in effect saying : "DON'T pay any attention to the details involved in the car's
presentation, look only at its colors and shiny-ness".
I, and maybe others, associate with a car's potential BUYERS, and do say : " LOOK beyond the car's colors and shiny-ness
to understand what the renovator has actually done to this car."
E.G.: was the subject car originally, EVEN, a convertible, or the same model as it is presented to be, or having the OEM
performance-equipment on it, or is it painted in its OEM colors, and/or how well is its interior rendered?
All of the above considerations have a bearing on a car's true market value.
And, then, there is the un-knowable mechanical condition of the car, but, if a lot of 'liberties' have been taken in the
car's renovation, and/or in its presentation, a logical conclusion may be drawn regarding the car's mechanical repair
work quality.
Many sellers play a game of mis-representation on their cars, under the auspice of Buyer-Beware.
Well, I am here to assist the buyers in understanding what it is that they may be interested in buying.
As S. McQueen said : "You work your side of the street, I'll work mine."
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 636
| d500neil - 2010-03-09 9:04 PM
I forget what this 58 Custom Royal (or, the '58 Custom Sierra wagon) upholstery cloth was called.
I call it "52 swizzle stick pick up".
Sparky
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DSCF4132a.jpg (51KB - 79 downloads)
IMG_4367a.jpg (75KB - 69 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 210
Location: San Diego, CA | That car is indeed beautiful. Congratulations to the buyer. I would LOVE to have it. Also, thank you to the ‘nitpickers’. This board is more then just a place to come and bicker about nonsense….it is a resource. A resource that will hopefully be around long after the rest of us have gone to that great Mopar dealer in the sky (year of that dealer is your choice). Something someone can come and visit years from now when they are restoring their car and have some information on what may or may not be original. There are no detailed books on these cars. I also own a ’66 Corvette and I can find out what the correct bolts are by just pulling down a book from my shelf, full of production line photos and more showing every detail. For my Chrysler, if I have to replace or repair and item, why not try and get it ‘correct’? I need to do it anyway. Does someone know how the fuel line should look? Share away!
I dare say there are a few more then 12 people who are interested in what is ‘correct’…..correct being what came from the factory and not meaning the ‘in-correct’ is wrong….just not the way it was from the factory. Why is this a problem? I posted my car on here and things were pointed out. So what? The car, or cars, speak for themselves regarding their beauty and all of us who own one are fortunate. Having folks her who take the time to point out what is ‘correct’ is another element of our good fortune.
Thank you to all who contribute….and not so much of a thank you to all those that complain when folks do…..
Again, beautiful car! I love the color combo...correct or not.
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Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | Posted 2010-03-10 2:32 PM (#213213 - in reply to #212965)
Subject: Re: 1958 Dodge Custom Royal Convertible in SUMMERLAND , BR
I had a moment of clarity, not to say an epiphany, yesterday, which explains (to me) why Jim, and maybe others,
are so offended by the pointing-out of renovation defects and deficiencies and mis-representations about a car that
is being advertised 4-sale.
Hello,
may i ask your opinion, what is the market value of 59 black "super d500" from ebay?
Edited by parat11 2010-03-10 3:51 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Max -
I would start with $132,700 and subtract what the eBay fees would have been had the reserve been met. That would probably be the least he would take at this point. Unless there was evidence of monkey business with the bidding, the fairest thing to do might be to split what the eBay fees would have been. I wouldn't see any reason for you to contribute more than half.
PS. Jim - stay and have fun. What would the Hatfields be without the McCoys?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-03-10 6:18 PM
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| I come by once in a while just to stir things up a bit Remember, I collected FL cars for over 30 years and know a hell of a lot about them...I'm the one that told Neil about the right exhaust manifold on a '59 Super D500 being different than the standard D500. I am able to judge a lot of what is said here and some of it is just guesses or hypothesis but taken as gospel. Thats what I don't like. But I never try to correct anyone as I don't think it is necessary to challenge someone's opinion. Mopar 380 is the best authority on this site in my opinion...he knows FL cars very well and is a gentleman about it. I will stop by from time to time, but I'm completely out of the FL cars now. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Well, .... Jimbo
No one is telling you to leave or shut the F!CK up. Something I cannot say you oblige others on this list with.
If you choose to leave, that will be on you.
I have known you a long, long time, and it hasn't been since we met up again on this site that I ever saw this harsh
intolerance towards others, especially about pointing out how the factory did it. For the life of me, I do not under-
stand how you make the jump to thinking anyone is saying stuff is BAD by pointing out what deviates from factory
original .... that just simply is not the case.
I would dearly love to own this car. It is stunning just as it sits. It has also had a lot of attention and money spent
on it making it different than it would have come from the factory. I bought my car like this ..... looked good, but really
needed a lot to be solid and fixed right. Still, I was happy to get it and have never regretted buying it as is. This Dodge
is likely a similar case, ...maybe not as bad, but still not how the factory would have done it. Why does this matter ?
Because doing it non-factory is as arbitrary and random as an owner's creativity (or lack thereof) ... so getting it
NON-factory "correct" is also totally arbitrary and random. The only original route to be documented is just that, the
original factory method. All other methods get kicked around here too .... disc brakes, 440 conversions, you name it !
You don't hear anybody cutting them down. Well, actually, I have seen it here. But you know, I have seen far more
supportive tech help and good will than those times when someone gets "a boot" for something done "in bad taste".
But getting back to this whole resource thing, ..... Like you, I am an old dog in this kennel. I doubt there is anyone
who knows more about my car than I do after all these years. I did not require hunting down resources to learn which
bolt was used for the tranny mount to the frame. After looking at thirty 58 Fireflites, I pretty much had it nailed down,
... but you can't just go look at them in wrecking yards like you could in 1980, so these resources of knowledge are
becoming more cerebral than physical. But for the greenhorn FL fan, this kind of resource is invaluable. Why
the hell do you want to shut it down ? It just doesn't make sense. My car will be far from factory stock in several ways.
That is MY choice. Still, I WANT to know what is the factory original method. One logic is not mutually exclusive of the
other. No one has to listen to Neil, myself, or anyone else on this board. They can take the info or leave it. But at least
it is out there !
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2010-03-10 10:10 PM
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| Doc, as usual you have written a book and totally missed the point. But that is OK....as someone said above, this "car critic corner" is what has driven most of us old timers away. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Who is missing the point ?
One group advocates free speech.
The other advocates telling the other to shut up.
Simple as that.
WHAT, exactly is this point I am missing ?
Go ahead, ... Give me one more chance to hear your argument for what you are doing. Be sure not to miss
explaining how you are NOT telling others to shut up... or that it is somehow justified, Oh yeah, ... and let's
pretend I have "special needs" and write REAL slow so I can understand how you are doing something other than
what I described.
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| Right on! You've got me figured out right down to the special needs. I DO love being analyzed. More, please! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Not to kick an already deceased farm animal, again, but a car advertised for SALE is a part of a business transaction,
where the seller makes certain representations and depictions regarding what he is trying to sell, and how much
MONEY he is trying to receive from that transaction.
How much MONEY he receives depends upon the rarity and the desirability and the originality of the object at hand.
Why don't (recognized) counterfeit objects receive as much value and purchase payment as do original objects?
Why would someone object to the pointing out of non-original/non-correct components of an object which is being
mis-represented (either innocently, or not) by its seller?
This 4-sale message board is not a Car Show (see: Member's Rides for that) ; it's a 2-dimensional Barrett-Jackson
event---but, at least, at the B-J you might hear the engine idle and can sit in the car and check out its clock and
radio's operation.
All we know about a car, here, is what (current-) color(s) it may have, and how pretty-shiny it might be, plus, its
seller's representations about his ownership/renovation history of it.
This is a PERFECT venue (as James states, above) for the rational discussion of what is original or correct for a particular
car, in regards to what its SELLER is claiming, about its condition, and in regards to what the fair market value may be
for that car.
This message board can provide for extensive sidebar discussions, as the original-thread concerns itself only with one-car's
potential sale.
So, in response to Jame's request for information about how an OEM fuel line should look, I'm going to send a pic to Sir Clive
for posting here, showing a factory-promotional photo for the high-falutin 300E, which will show how seemingly careless was
the bending/forming of the fuel lines on our cars.
As far as Max's inquiry into the fair market value of the black CRL convertible that has been renovated into appearing to be
a Super D500, its market value depends upon the education and/or the desire of a buyer to understand, to overlook, or NOT
to be informed of,.... the fact that that car is not an OEM Super D500, which, also, does not appear to have its OEM colors/trim ( I forget
what-all's been done to it).....in regards to the availability of other similar, or, original examples of the car.
Its purchase decision and negotiation depends upon the knowledge and the motivation of the two parties involved.
Stupid money -vs- Uninformed money -vs- Smart money.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-11 5:19 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Also, in Re: the subject 58 CRL vert, at hand, I'll bet (only a little!) that the car may have been OEM Charcoal/Silver,
(like Philippe's example, above here) based upon the fact that it's got silver on its rear end, now, because Charcoal
was only one, of two, available 2nd-colors, combined along with Silver (the other being a VERY pretty "Navy").
Keeping the existing Silver would have been a logical decision for the car's renovator.
If the car were OEM Crimson, keeping that color would have been a no-brainer, but, the second-color could only have been
either Eggshell or Ebony---both of which are very attractive and complementary shades, which probably would have been
retained on the car, by its renovator.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-11 4:50 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Posted for NEIL D500
..........
.This is a factory promotional photo.
Check out how the factory bent up its fuel line.
This example is similar to the appearance of the OEM single-carbs'
fuel lines, which look to have been bent by hand, too.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Thanks, Clive; also note that this car has the Level Aire air-suspension system installed in it.
That's its cute little air compressor sitting 'up' there.
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Rebels-59 Coronet - 2010-03-11 8:12 PM
Posted for NEIL D500
..........
.This is a factory promotional photo.
Check out how the factory bent up its fuel line.
This example is similar to the appearance of the OEM single-carbs'
fuel lines, which look to have been bent by hand, too.
Posted it again as New Page Started to Above Quote.
Edited by Rebels-59 Coronet 2010-03-11 5:09 PM
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Posts: 4043
Location: Connecticut | I agree with Dr. D's somewhat lengthy post above. This site and the companion listserver are the 'go to' sources for someone wanting to know what is/was correct for their cars. Also note that the values in so-called Gold Books, Black Books, Old Car Price Guides, etc., are based on correctly restored cars. So when someone want to know 'What's it Worth?', they need to keep this in mind. Ron
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Location: Parts Unknown | carjock - 2010-03-12 10:20 AM
Right on! You've got me figured out right down to the special needs. I DO love being analyzed. More, please!
*******************************************
How's this for analysis:
I am becoming convinced you do not read the posts and just fire off emotional responses.
I said it was ME we were pretending had special needs, not YOU. Go back and read it again.
I have a fair amount of training in reading people and "interrogation tactics". No real rocket
science on this interface. I'd just like to see you own your sh!t instead of deflecting it off.
*cheers*
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| What a pro! So you're both reading me and interrogating me? I don't think I've ever heard you mention that you were a trained law-enforcement professional before? (except like in every other post?) Brent, you're a good guy who is making a mountain out of a molehill...just chill out a little and ignore those of us who like to add a little spice back into this once highly enjoyable sight. I'll fade away soon and pop up again at another time to annoy you somemore! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Time for the meds line, Amigo. 
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Posts: 2100
Location: Idaho - where men are men and spuds are spuds | HA! What all you folks are missing, and what my brother forgot to tell you, is that his friend, Obama, has appointed HIM the FL Czar. L L
Edited by Mope R. Geezer 2010-03-13 2:40 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I thought that R. Limbaugh had done that. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Mope R. Geezer - 2010-03-14 11:24 AM
HA! What all you folks are missing, and what my brother forgot to tell you, is that his friend, Obama, has appointed HIM the FL Czar. LL
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Methinks we'll call him "Socialist Jim", Opinion Czar. He can put the squelch to all commentary besides his own. NLAA
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! |
Methinks we'll call him "Socialist Jim", Opinion Czar. He can put the squelch to all commentary besides his own. NLAA
Well it would be better than Neils long and drawn out bashing of other peoples cars. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Excuse me: ..... long and drawn out bashing of FOR SALE cars , that are being mis-represented, to potential buyers.
Restoration advise that is not accepted apparently can make a person feel guilty and defensive, apparently, though.
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Location: Parts Unknown | OK, .... This would be "bashing" : This car is totally f!cked, ... what a piece of sh!t, ... blah, blah, blah ....
What I see in Neil's posts (amongst others') is an informed and IMPERSONAL commentary on how a given car has been
modified from original OR what areas might be of concern for potential work. This is hardly bashing.
I suspect this is just another case of our current society rushing to "victimhood" as a way of feeling important. The reality
is that our grandparents would just tell such thinkers to quit sniveling and get back to work. Where has my America gone ?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Nah, Brent; Aaron is trying to take a cheap shot at me, because I had the temerity to advise him how our
cars' undercarriages were OEM-finished.
Aaron's car was on a rotisserie, so that a correct finishing of its floor pan would have been a relatively simple procedure,
with the lower body color being oversprayed onto the gray primer/sealer.
As far as a correct restoration is concerned, a durable gray finish-color could be applied, over a primer/sealer, to replicate
the appearance of the OEM primer, and then the body-color can be applied at right-angles to the car, to replicate the
painters' overspraying, when they painted the car's lower areas.
The appearance of this procedure IS very attractive, due to the contrasting colors involved; but, Aaron wanted to do what uninformed renovators do, which is just apply the finish color all over the floor pan.
He did not appreciate my advice, and, apparently holds some sort of grudge about being informed how the factory finish
should look, on a floor pan.
Cars that are OEM undercoated have the mastic be applied directly over the above finish, so, it is never seen, and, OEM
non-undercoated cars had the OEM-oversprayed appearance quickly disappear, with/from normal daily usage of the cars.
I have photos of several surviving FWDLK cars showing the correct undercarriage appearance, and serious B/E body
restorers have long known how to replicate their similar cars' undercarriage appearance.
That's the back story, here, with Aaron.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-14 5:30 PM
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | Uh No cheap shot just what I read on this forum. It's ok Doc I wont't poke fun at your boy anymore. Is'nt legal in your state doc for you two to tie the not?
As for you Neil we have no "story" I posted some stuff on my car and you do want you do in every post bring out your car nerdness and rip on peoples stuff. One can only imagine how perfect your car is to the factory standards---If not it just makes you a big ass HYPOCRITE.
We all know how well the OEM undercarriages hold up my bad for wanting my car to last. I should have left it to rust the rest of the way into the ground then to make such a debacle of it |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 60 Plymouth - 2010-03-15 4:27 PM
It's ok Doc I wont't poke fun at your boy anymore. Is'nt legal in your state doc for you two to tie the not?
**************************
Neil is too old for my tastes, Snookums .... but you sure look fine in that tight pair of jeans.
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-03-14 9:48 PM
60 Plymouth - 2010-03-15 4:27 PM
It's ok Doc I wont't poke fun at your boy anymore. Is'nt legal in your state doc for you two to tie the not?
**************************
Neil is too old for my tastes, Snookums .... but you sure look fine in that tight pair of jeans.
That must be the cop in ya talkin like that |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Nah, .... Dukeboy just told me you have a real pretty mouth.
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Location: Big pimpin' | Oh, now ya'll gotta bring ME in it??
IMO, Neil is a perfectionist that gets on everybody's d@mn nerves...I have no problem taking "Shots" at him, cause he has no problem taking shots at others in the form of shots at their cars....Sorry Neil, but I see right through what you guys are doing...Offering information to "Potential" buyers? Why not let these "Potential buyers" ASK FOR YOUR HELP before you offer it? If they are stupid enough to "buy it now" without asking questions first, then that's on them...NOT YOU..If I speak ANYTHING "Christine", or god forbid a 440 here, I along with anybody else gets chastized, but yet, I can see the purists say whatever they feel about "Factory Correct" and no one says anything....Brent, You have to understand that While most of your long, drawn out, posts may make sense to some, I get the jist of it, then reply in my own "Call it like I see it" way...Aaron, you know you was wrong for Not restoring your car to the level of Dr. Bishop's standards.....You should scrap the entire car cause someone might be lurking here and think that painting without proper oversray is the correct way of doing things...I'm just offering this for the "Potential Builders" you understand right?
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-15 7:51 AM
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | I know Duke but ya know the only one who will see that is snakes and dead groundhogs and Neil and the Doc can decide which they are.
Doc I am sure your mouth is alot prettier when ya got your teeth out --old man |
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Location: Etters Pa | Shame on any of you folks that improve the cars over what the factory put out!
I guess we should not fix any of the sorry assed workmanship that came with the cars off the assembly line..
Rest assured, I will be sure to reproduce the piss poor panel alignment and factory water leaks as well! |
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Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Man, this has gotten bitter.
Everyone comes here for their own reasons. I'm building a custom Chrysler and don't give a crap about factory overspray on the floorpans, but I'm also not going to get sensitive when Neil tells me the way the factory did it. Neil evaluates the fuel line routing on every underhood picture he finds, and Brent points out the disjointed styling everytime a 1959 Mopar is discussed. That's okay, that's just what they do. Just like Chaney wants a 440 in every car and Aaron wants shiny body-colored floors, we all come here with our own experiences and perspective.
I actually appreciate the knowledge that is used to 'critique' these cars because documentation on FL cars is rare and we don't have many opportunities to see examples, good or bad, that tell us the proper way to restore them. Younger people that are just now getting into the hobby don't have access to the information that some of you guys that have dealt with these cars for 30-50 years have. So maybe we should have another forum that is specific to restorations. Just a thought, since the way we are 'spreading the word' today in the For Sale forums seems to be stepping on toes.
As for car that is the topic of discussion, that might be the sexiest FL Dodge I've ever seen. Bring it down about three inches and it would be perfect. Oops, there I go critiquing it. Okay, time to get off the soapbox- |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 57burb - 2010-03-16 7:41 AM
Man, this has gotten bitter.
Everyone comes here for their own reasons. I'm building a custom Chrysler and don't give a crap about factory overspray on the floorpans, but I'm also not going to get sensitive when Neil tells me the way the factory did it. Neil evaluates the fuel line routing on every underhood picture he finds, and Brent points out the disjointed styling everytime a 1959 Mopar is discussed. That's okay, that's just what they do. Just like Chaney wants a 440 in every car and Aaron wants shiny body-colored floors, we all come here with our own experiences and perspective.
I actually appreciate the knowledge that is used to 'critique' these cars because documentation on FL cars is rare and we don't have many opportunities to see examples, good or bad, that tell us the proper way to restore them. Younger people that are just now getting into the hobby don't have access to the information that some of you guys that have dealt with these cars for 30-50 years have. So maybe we should have another forum that is specific to restorations. Just a thought, since the way we are 'spreading the word' today in the For Sale forums seems to be stepping on toes.
As for car that is the topic of discussion, that might be the sexiest FL Dodge I've ever seen. Bring it down about three inches and it would be perfect. Oops, there I go critiquing it. Okay, time to get off the soapbox-
****************************************
Perzackly!
My car isn't stock, ... so why is Jim insisting I am some tyrannical "purist" ?
My only beef is some people here telling others to shut up. That just isn't right.
I choose to do my car the way I please and STILL appreciate Neil's (or anyone else's) input on how
the factory did it. There is no insult or slam there ... just good info that I get to choose if I follow or
not.
This reminds me of the old adage about a woman asking her husband "Do these pants make me look fat?"
If she had a big old butt, it would not be the pants making it look that way, now would it ? But the joke is
that the poor guy is doomed to the doghouse, no matter what he answers, even if the truth is "Honey, you
got a big, fat butt !"
The factory did it a certain way. That is the fact of this matter. Whether WE choose to "bulk up" or what "pants"
we put on our car is OUR choice, but it does not change the fact of what is factory original, and most importantly,
nowhere in the commentary is value assigned except by the listener/reader who (in this case) is taking a statement
of fact as a personal slap-down. As if Neil could give a rip about what some guy halfway across the country does with the
underside of his car ! No, .. I think he just offers it as general information and we are all free to take it or leave it.
Same with my rants about design. Someone loves 59's ? Good for them ! But to deny the clash of design elements
is like arguing that white is actually black. Or those pants make the Nancy Reagan look like Doctor Phil. Nothing on
Earth is going to make me look like Kim Kardashian, and for me to argue that I do is simply denial of the obvious. But
to get bent with people that point out the obvious is lunacy on MY part.
None of this is personal, guys. Not from Neil, not from Duke, not from me. None of us has dead-stock cars. None of us claims to
hold court over anyone. Neil is a hard study on overspray and fuel line bending, Duke advocates liberal 440 usage, I like to talk about
design. We just offer insight/comment on things we know a little about and everyone else is free to take it or leave it.
No need to get so serious or personal.
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Location: Big pimpin' | Here again you guys have missed the point....I don't care if you like Neils advice or not, I used to reply to every thread with something like "Dump a 440 in it", or "Christine is the best F. Look car".....I could stand here and claim that I'm only repeating this so the "Newbies" can understand about Christine and the mighty 440....You all didn't see things like that now did you?? All I got was the same thing I'm exclaiming right now....Yes, We know Neil loves to critique cars, WE ALREADY GOT THAT PART, and quit repeating it over and over....You ALL know I love the mighty 440, WE ALL GOT THAT, and I was repeadedly "Attacked" for saying it every other time I posted on an engine thread....Some on this board can REPEAT over and over about how something isn't correct, or something should be done better to factory specs and everybody defends it, but let me Repeat something about hot rodding with a D@MN 440 and I get a ration of Sh*t over it every time....To borrow some of your own words There Doc..."I only offer the 440 as a viable solution to those Newbies that want it..They can take it or leave it"....Watch what happens when I post about a 440 or CHRISTINE again.....
You all didn't like it when I offered the 440 time and time again and you didn't like hearing in every other thread about a certain red and white Plymouth either....Well, GUESS WHAT???? Some here don't like having a "Purist" comment made about their ride, or EVERY FREAKIN' one that is posted here in the for sale section either.....Keep that sh*t to yourself, unless ASKED! Everybody here knows Neil is the Sh8T on restorations and the numbers game, so that's what PM'S ARE FOR....
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-15 12:28 PM
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | I am not bitter it just gets old that every car is torn apart by a select few. Give it a break. There is lots of cars I see on here that I think are ugly or junk but I dont post about it.
Neil is like a broken record, everytime you see his posts its gonna be whats wrong with the car or what could be done to make it correct. I am all for bouncing ideas off people but not for pushing my agenda time and time again.
Duke I am scared to post the pics of the fueline I put in saturday 3/8 was stock right??? |
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Location: Big pimpin' | Well, That would depend on if it was a Factory "Sonoramic" Car or not There Aaron...
Nah, post away brutha from anutha mutha....I have no problem enjoying your progress pics....
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-15 5:16 PM
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| Doc Desoto quote:
Doc Desoto quote: "So why is Jim isisting that I am some sort of tyrannical "purist"? Doc, I hate to break it to you....my little "poke" at purists had nothing to do with you at all. I don't consider you a purist..but I have certainly come to learn that you simply must have the last word and that it has to be done in no less than 1000 words. My god man, give it a rest. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Sorry I've missed all the fun, but, it's nice to get caught up with the festivities, again!
Chaney, you and I got no issues, cause you've always been an up-front rodder; nothing to debate about that,
and I respect your opinion and attitude, and you've never taken cheap shots at me.
I made the mistake, initially, of thinking that Aaron might be a rational person, and appreciate some timely and
practical advise about protecting his car's undercarriage from corrosion, while making it appear to be still OEM .
He didn't, and hit the fan.
All anyone has to do is read my post on his Member's Rides thread, and his response to it, to form your
own conclusions about who is hysterically over-reacting, and cheap shot-ing whom.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...Can't we all just...get along ?
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Location: Big pimpin' | Neil, I can respect what you are saying, but you just stated my point....Aaron just was VERBAL about it...Most here feel that way, but either don't have the balls to say it out loud, or just "Don't want to create waves"....Sooner or later, you will run up on another that is verbal about you trying to "Help" him see the OEM side of things....JUST like me trying to help some 276 Cu. IN. HEMI folks see the light of day that they are waisting their time with such a small engine simply to be in the same arena as the "Real" HEMI folks..426 Cu. In. and up...
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-15 8:29 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...See the 'OEM' side---is that like "The Dark Side"...lolol!
And neiner-neiner-neiner cheap shots are not the same thing as discussing or
debating the merits of installing a dual master cylinder, or disc brakes, or
installing a built 440 instead of overhauling the OEM 273 engine....
Since I'm a 'broken-record', I guess that means that my position on a seller's trying
to mislead potential buyers.... has been heard.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-15 8:35 PM
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Location: Big pimpin' | Neil, you have 8114 Posts....Not ALL of those are Taken as "Friendly"....Remember that and you won't have this happen again.... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Have WHAT happen again---cheap shots? |
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Location: Big pimpin' | People Blasting you for "Offering" your "OEM help"....Not everybody wants these cars EXACTLY like Exner and the factory put 'em together...Yes, you WILL get "Cheap shots" again sooner or later...Trying to help you see the light here buddy....Just like I saw the light with the 440 thing.....I hope you are as smart as you seem.....
I know you mean no harm, but you are like that guy at the car show who doesn't own a car, but yet critiques everybody's car...
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-15 8:45 PM
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Location: Colorado | 57burb - 2010-03-15 8:41 AM Man, this has gotten bitter. Everyone comes here for their own reasons. I'm building a custom Chrysler and don't give a crap about factory overspray on the floorpans, but I'm also not going to get sensitive when Neil tells me the way the factory did it. Neil evaluates the fuel line routing on every underhood picture he finds, and Brent points out the disjointed styling everytime a 1959 Mopar is discussed. That's okay, that's just what they do. Just like Chaney wants a 440 in every car and Aaron wants shiny body-colored floors, we all come here with our own experiences and perspective. I actually appreciate the knowledge that is used to 'critique' these cars because documentation on FL cars is rare and we don't have many opportunities to see examples, good or bad, that tell us the proper way to restore them. Younger people that are just now getting into the hobby don't have access to the information that some of you guys that have dealt with these cars for 30-50 years have. So maybe we should have another forum that is specific to restorations. Just a thought, since the way we are 'spreading the word' today in the For Sale forums seems to be stepping on toes. As for car that is the topic of discussion, that might be the sexiest FL Dodge I've ever seen. Bring it down about three inches and it would be perfect. Oops, there I go critiquing it. Okay, time to get off the soapbox- Well said. You guys all bring a wealth of knowledge to the sport and I have called both Neil and Chaney for guidance in the past and will proabably need some help in the future. It's a public forum, if you post information, pictures or opinions you should expect varying feedback good, bad or indifferent. If you can't handle that, don't post or participate in public forums. I probably said to much. Cheers brothers! I do love the 58 Dodge, great looking car! Enjoy! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...but, the difference between your car show example guy, and me, is that I DO own a/that car, and I have researched
these cars since 1980; I'm not sharp-shooting or BS'ing anyone.
What you're getting at, is the guy who comes up and says something "definitive" that you know is not correct; that AIN'T
me; maybe someone does not want to hear about what is correct; that's fine, say so, but, don't shoot the messenger, and
I think that most people DO appreciate learning something about their car-----maybe that's what that HAMB or Moparts websites
are for---hot rodders, and I say that in a nice way, because I appreciate reading your first-hand insight and points of view.
...that's how we ALL can learn something!
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-15 9:29 PM
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | Ok, Aaron; if you're just going to 'rod' your car, then restoring its appearance to OEM would be just extra-effort, and who
would ever want to do THAT thing, anyway?
Neil lets see it looks like you took the first cheap shot -I lack the effort to do my car right--WTF is that not a cheap ass shot.
Again if you have modified your car in anyway and I me anyway you are a BIG ASS HYPOCRITE!!!!
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Location: Big pimpin' | d500neil - 2010-03-15 9:19 PM
...but, the difference between your car show example guy, and me, is that I DO own a/that car, and I have researched
these cars since 1980; I'm not sharp-shooting or BS'ing anyone.And this gives you the right to critique peoples hard work?
Just because it may be true, makes none the less as*holish
What you're getting at, is the guy who comes up and says something "definitive" that you know is not correct; I don't know if he's correct or not and don't care. You missed the point AGAIN. It isn't the point of being correct, it's the point he never shoulda opened his mouth in the first place that AIN'T
me;Wanna bet? maybe someone does not want to hear about what is correct; that's fine, say so, but, don't shoot the messenger,Hide behind all the reasons you want Neil, I think you just get yer rocks off critiquing others sh*t cause in some way it makes you feel better.. and
I think that most people DO appreciate learning something about their car--If they want to know, I'm sure they'd ask you...---maybe that's what that HAMB or Moparts websites
are for---hot rodders,And this site isn't??hmm, I thought this site was for ALL F. Lookers?...I see now it isn't nessesarily... and I say that in a nice way, because I appreciate reading your first-hand insight and points of view.
...that's how we ALL can learn something!
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Location: Parts Unknown | I spent all day kicking this thread around in my head, trying to get another angle on it.
Given what has been posted since this morning, it seems my thinking today ran the same
way. I can readily identify with the disdain for the high falootin' types who seem arrogant in
their liberal nose-in-the-air commentary about others' cars. The example I relate to was in
being treated like some cretin by a number of guys in the 300 Club because I was "wasting
my time" with a "parts car" (a nice champagne and charcoal 57 NY'er coupe) when I first got
into Forward Look cars. At the time, the 300 boys were the only game in town for FL Mopar
knowledge, and these guys were real pompous jerks. I spent many years "out in the woods
alone" on the FL frontier rather than be belittled.
Is this close to your argument ?
I cannot speak to interface between others in the past, but I would submit that from my
experience, Der Vedder, Ronbo, and a host of others are a large reason why I am on this forum
and I have never taken their commentary on cars as a smack-down on the car OR the owner ...
just simple statements about condition, work to be done, or factory methods ... the very reason
I come to this site. So it seems preposterous that some here are asking them to shut up, and I am
moved to ask why some feel these comments are directly treading on them and get defensive ?
As stated above, I have experienced the snubbing by high falootin' snobs, so I *think* I am
getting what you are driving at, but I don't think they are the same thing.
Maybe it is BECAUSE I came onto this old car scene when fins were considered the WORST, UGLIEST
cars ever made AND got treated like sh!t by both the public and established hobbyists that this bickering
seems benign and laughable by comparison. I am PROUD to own and drive such an ugly f!cking car. I
was proud to do it in 1978, and I am proud to do it now. I knew I had the golden key to the crapper back
then, and now that the rest of the world suddenly thinks I have a six figure hunk of sh!t, it just shows I
was right all along. We all own ugly hunks of sh!t, ... I know, no one missed a chance to tell me what
a hunk of sh!t was. If we weren't all smart enough to know the difference, we would not be here. We
have a lot more in common in the bigger picture than not. I would suggest when the feelings of being
stepped on creep in to remember this. We are all on the same team. A small team trying to save some
neat stuff against many adversaries.
Go team!
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | I am so wonderful , but you all won't know it unless i lose my humility for a while. Recently there has been some disquised shots at me not only in this thread, but in other recent postings. You know who you are. Anyways, I am so proud of me by biting my tongue and keeping my thoughts to myself- for the good of the forum.. A piece of advice from "Mad Magazine" that stuck in my little mind----
" Oh what gift the gift giver would give us- to see ourselves as others see us"
And that goes for EVERYBODY ! ........................MO |
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Location: Big pimpin' | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-03-16 12:45 AM
Is this close to your argument ?
I cannot speak to interface between others in the past, but I would submit that from my
experience, Der Vedder, Ronbo, and a host of others are a large reason why I am on this forum
and I have never taken their commentary on cars as a smack-down on the car OR the owner ...
just simple statements about condition, work to be done, or factory methods ... the very reason
I come to this site. So it seems preposterous that some here are asking them to shut up, and I am
moved to ask why some feel these comments are directly treading on them and get defensive ?
Go team!
:)
Doc., Please tell me you took the blinders off...One would have to be completely blind not to see the direct hit Aaron took from Neil calling it "Helping him understand the OEM way of overspray"...
You might not take offense to something like this here or at a car show, but I've seen guys swallow their teeth for it at shows and what not...To cut apart someones hard work on a public forum not only is it arrogant, it is selfish, pompass, and down right degrading I don't care what "Label" you put on it trying to cover it up...
I realize full and well I'm not on my own in this way of thinking, but we aren't in the chat room where people feel comfortable speaking their minds... so Aaron and I are all alone out here...I for one will stand up and finally say what many are thinking as I don't give a f**k how many people think Neil is the best thing since sliced bread.. There are just as many that think the opposite, but are just affraid to post it here for fear of a huge arguement......
It's obvious we are all NOT on the same "Team" here Brent.. Some would have me stop with the Christine and 440 thing, while they defend The Purist thing....What's good for the goose, is good for the gander...
There is a time and place for everything and to try and turn the F. Look into a site full of old, grumpy, worn down, set in their ways, old purist guys is Not very prudent to trying to gain newer members... Some have stated this...Nobody wants to come on this forum and post pics of their pride and joy, only to see Neil, Ronbo, Or whoever cut it to shreds hiding behind that BULLs**t line about "Helping" the owners, or "Potential buyers" when The person Never had ANY intention of SELLING????See the purist way of thinking can't be held behind closed doors. Then, they can't get to EVERYBODY, only themselves...It's no fun critiquing the cars among themselves.....Someone is gonna get BOTH their feelings stepped on by this, I don't care who you are..The purist way of thinking will get to everybody, they just haven't posted the remark that hits YOUR button yet...When they do, you will feel the same way...
SO, like I've stated before if someone wants to know what's wrong with their car, I'm ALMOST POSITIVE THEY WILL ASK YOU, if they don't know it already....Bottom line? If the "Christine" thing has gotten old, so has the "purist" thing....
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-16 12:10 PM
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Location: Etters Pa | Duke.
I'ts not just you a Arron on this vent, reread the posts. You two are just a week late in joining the rumble. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Well, Duke ... I catch your drift, ... and I must have missed the offending "instructional" post a la Der Vedder
(or just passed it off as irrelevant to my interests).
I guess my point here is that the world is a tough place. You gotta have thick skin and not wear your heart
on your sleeve. I liken it to - if you are going to do something, be able to back it up with sound reasoning and
to Dracu with everyone else.
I have given you a sh!tload of pokes about 440's and Christine, but I always used a smiley icon and did my
best to make it clear I was goober in doing it. In other words, not personal and just having fun. You got kinda
bristly at first, but I think we get it about teasing and not taking ourselves too seriously anymore, no ? I can tell
you that you are whacked for liking Christine, and you call me a stuffy old douchebag and we both laugh about it.
I think you should be able to say whatever you feel about these cars as long as you keep it in a personally respectful
manner. Go ahead and rant about 440's .... it is what you are known for and part of your character on this site. I
might find it a bit tedious at times, but who the f!ck am I to tell you what you can and cannot say ? Bring it on and let
your colors show, ....... just like I would say that about Der Vedder & Co. .... it all adds up to a well rounded info-
rmational resource site. But the respect thing cuts both ways, and if some people are going to get personal in their
critiques, then that is stepping over the line too. I suspect both sides could do well to take a couple steps back and
look at how they might lower the flame level and still allow free speech.
This site would be sorely poorer without all this good input.
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Location: Big pimpin' | I'm not gonna pretend I haven't actually learned some things from both the Hot Rodders as well as the Purists here, but opening a thread on the discussion of how the fuel lines on a D-500, or Golden Commando Should be bent/run is one thing, but to use someone's pride and joy to make your point is gonna step on some toes....I took it upon myself to "Quit with the 440 thing" and I would only hope that "Others" would do the same for this forum as I had in this respect...This is all we are asking...If the shoe was on the other foot with every car posted being cut to shreds on how it shoulda been hot rodded, I'm sure the roles would be reversed... |
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | Preach on Duke!!!! I can tell ya right now Doc I am the furthest thing from soft skinned but on the other hand your boy Neil sqeels like a school girl when someone jumps his s**t.
It just get really old, just look at the threads everyone there might be a complement but I'll be darned he cant leave the post without telling them some way or somehow they can make there car more correct.
I just like the cars --it was probally those purist douches who made up classes like "rodder" and "purist" so they could spew there car nerdness upon the world
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Going back up to Chaney's comment, above, here; yeah; I'm going to point out something, here, whenever someone is
mis-representing or attempting to defraud, a potential buyer about a car's provenance or condition.
I'm also going to point out errors or actions taken by the seller which would affect the car's OEM condition and therefore
its fair market value, and which might also serve to show an interested person what the car's OEM condition might have been.
Just because I do not sink to Aaron's level of juvenile name-calling does not mean that I am acting like a squealing (that's how it's spelled, Aaron) schoolgirl, when I respond to it.
Edited by d500neil 2010-03-16 3:26 PM
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | Sorry Neil to not back you up, but you have given your correct critical eye to many cars that are not in a for sale post or advertisement. You are THE authority on correct Dodges on the FL site, but maybe feathers would not be so ruffled if you would be a little more selective on the cars that are not "right"................................MO |
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | So I guess nit picking everyones car is not Juvenile? Sorry for the miss spelling sometimes I lack the effort to spell things correctly as Mr Webster had designed. I am pretty sure my car is not for sale and I had already bought it so not sure I know why you would have commented??? |
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Location: Connecticut | I'm really surprised that folks would get their undies in a knot because someone posts that their fuel line is bent incorrectly. I'm even more surprised that folks would get their undies in a knot because someone posts that SOMEONE ELSE'S fuel line is bent correctly. Y'all are waaaaay to thin-skinned. I've had people point out things that are incorrect on both my Plymouth and my Olds. I spent a ton of money on each restoration/refurbishment. Yet I listen to what they have to say, then decide whether I care or not. I'm not going to rant and rave that they're ripping my car to pieces. It really doesn't matter, since I do my cars to my own standards. Ron |
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Location: Big pimpin' | As long as you "Purists" are willing to deal with the backlash that is sure to come from "pointing out errors or actions taken by the seller which would affect the car's OEM condition and therefore
its fair market value, and which might also serve to show an interested person what the car's OEM condition might have been", cause you will get more backlash, mark my words...Nobody elected any of you as the "Buyer Protection" plan on this site....
You can be surprized all you want, the bottom line is you post things like you guys have been and this WILL happen again....NOBODY likes a Smart azz that has to put his Critical .02 In every time you turn around..I'm not stating anything I wouldn't state straight to your faces if I saw you doing this at a local Car show without the Title of J U D G E on your Shirt...
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-16 6:50 PM
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| ronbo97 - 2010-03-16 5:59 PM
I'm really surprised that folks would get their undies in a knot because someone posts that their fuel line is bent incorrectly. I'm even more surprised that folks would get their undies in a knot because someone posts that SOMEONE ELSE'S fuel line is bent correctly. Y'all are waaaaay to thin-skinned. I've had people point out things that are incorrect on both my Plymouth and my Olds. I spent a ton of money on each restoration/refurbishment. Yet I listen to what they have to say, then decide whether I care or not. I'm not going to rant and rave that they're ripping my car to pieces. It really doesn't matter, since I do my cars to my own standards. Ron
Picking apart a car for sale....why?? The car is as you see it, if the wheels are not OEM then thats upto you if you like them on the car or not.....buy it or not..... many of us have made changes to our cars....like it or not thats life, my car I will do what I want with it. No need to pick apart someone elses car. No one wants to hear that. |
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Location: Connecticut | My only concern is for misrepresentation when a car is put up for sale. If someone claims that a 58 Plymouth is all original, and therefore expects a premium price, yet the interior is incorrect, there's a hemi under the hood and it's painted purple, I feel it's in the interest of anyone considering the purchase of this car to know that certain parts of the car are not original. Most of us regulars on the board would know this. But a newbie to forward lookers may believe the hype and end up being 'taken'. That's not to say that someone may look at that car and think 'I gotta buy that'. But at least they'll be going into it with their eyes wide open. As far as people's Pride and Joys, I mostly steer clear of commenting other than to say 'I like it', if in fact I do.
Ron
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| ronbo97 - 2010-03-16 7:36 PM
My only concern is for misrepresentation when a car is put up for sale. If someone claims that a 58 Plymouth is all original, and therefore expects a premium price, yet the interior is incorrect, there's a hemi under the hood and it's painted purple, I feel it's in the interest of anyone considering the purchase of this car to know that certain parts of the car are not original. Most of us regulars on the board would know this. But a newbie to forward lookers may believe the hype and end up being 'taken'. That's not to say that someone may look at that car and think 'I gotta buy that'. But at least they'll be going into it with their eyes wide open. As far as people's Pride and Joys, I mostly steer clear of commenting other than to say 'I like it', if in fact I do.
Ron
I agree with that. I went to look at the advertisement but not much is said. I have seen many other car ads saying stuff like All original and you see mistakes. It could be the seller just dosent know much about cars.... or is just saying all original to spice up the car ad. Thats when our knowledge of cars kicks in and we can easily tell that a Hemi dosent belong under the hood of a 58 Plymouth Silver Special. As a newbie believing what they see that is a problem. They could believe anything they see. Theres a difference of pointing things out versus saying your car looks bad with different interior, wheels...ect.... I have a so called friend that does that to peoples faces at car shows. Not professional, no tact there. Most people dont like negative comments about their car. I guess if you dont have anything nice to say then dont comment. But I dont think there is anything wrong with pointing things out in an informative way.
Edited by 59CRL 2010-03-16 7:46 PM
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Location: Connecticut | Greg, Glad we're on the same page with that. Ron 
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Location: Big pimpin' | Ron, I genuinely believe your heart is in the right place, but you have to understand..This is why the phrase was coined.."Buyer beware"....If a newbie is looking at spending "Top dollar", wouldn't you think they'd be asking questions like "Hey Neil/Ron/whoever, IS this car "All original"?......When the "Craig's list" ad's and the E-Bay ads are posted here, It isn't for the newbie's to look at dropping huge cash on without asking any questions first, it's so the car can be "Evaluated" and then we have what we have here...IF in fact, the "Critiquing" was left until the "Buyers" ASKED for it, then it wouldn't be an issue at all......Talking about a HEMI as the wrong engine on an "All original" car is one thing, but to tell them that it isn't worth the asking price cause it has the incorrect fuel lines, or the incorrect overspray is just plain picking the car apart...Hell, there was one recently that was incorrect and went for what? Over $100K?
Edited by dukeboy 2010-03-16 8:22 PM
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Location: Connecticut | dukeboy - 2010-03-16 8:17 PM If a newbie is looking at spending "Top dollar", wouldn't you think they'd be asking questions like "Hey Neil/Ron/whoever, IS this car "All original"? Actually, I think a newbie with limited knowledge would be afraid to post here, mostly because he doesn't want to look foolish. I'm certain that for every person posting here, there are twenty that are just lurking, having read the board for years but never posted. It's true, Buyer Beware. But I'm sure folks would like as much knowledge as possible before dropping serious cash. Some of the critiques run to the trivial, but as I said before, if that bothers folks, then they must be really thin skinned. Anyone reading this board has the right to read, not read or ignore anything or anyone that they want. Ron
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Location: Parts Unknown | Speaking strictly for myself, having all factions of motorhead input gives me the best opportunity to learn things.
Even as someone who has been doing FL cars for 30 years, I have still learned a quite a bit from posters on this site.
I will say it again, it would be a real shame to lose this input. To this end, I would suggest that those being critical
of cars, giving advice, or "going purist" use a little self-review on when it might not be appropriate to do so and act
accordingly in an effort to not come off as an unsolicited preacher and inflame one side of this argument. On the flip
side, I would appeal to the others to just ignore those you disagree with and move on.
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Location: Williams California | I can learn a lot by listening to those on either side of the fence, none of my cars are 'bone stock' but I do plan on doing a nut and bolt restoration in the future.
---John |
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Location: Upper East Tennessee | big m - 2010-03-17 1:14 PM
I can learn a lot by listening to those on either side of the fence, none of my cars are 'bone stock' but I do plan on doing a nut and bolt restoration in the future.
---John
I second this thought!
I appreciate all inputs. If it weren't for the devil's advocates we might not know how things came from the factory...and what to improve on! We now have the advantage of hind sight. Even Neil endorses recent technologies like powdercoating. Thanks to ALL here because I would be a complete idiot about these cars without you.  |
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| I like hearing what everyone has to say. And I do pay attention to Neil's remarks, because he knows a lot about how my particular cars were built. And if I ever get an Imperial that needs a new 392 I will thank Dukeboy for saving me lots of time and money (a lot of money) with the 440.
Remember that we are creating an archive in real time, that will outlive all of us many times over. 100 years from now someone will be very thankful for a piece of obscure information from someone long gone who was alive when these cars were on the road. All the personal rancor will not count for much then, other than to confirm that we all got along . . . most of the time.
Sparky |
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Account deactivated by owner's request
Location: On this barrel | I've got one of them cars with no rust from the factory ... sitting right here in my ... no mods to speak of .
But you all got my whateever all bunched up ..... But then again I'm from Idaho .... THAHS RIGHT IDAHO ... NOTHING rusts around here ( stored indoors)(nothing) OK ? Original paint. not rust , ... |
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Location: On this barrel | .. |
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Veteran
Posts: 210
Location: San Diego, CA | With all of this discussion, I keep going back to an earlier point….this board is a reference for the future. This board and the information shared within will, hopefully, outlive all of us. There will come a time when there will be no one who remembers these cars when they were new. First hand knowledge of how things were done at the factory will be gone. The idea that someone should withhold information until they are specifically asked to give it seems shortsighted. One day, that person will not be around to ask. I liken it to a family member who tells their stories about “the war”. Yeah, I heard those stories a few times, but you know what? I no longer have the chance to ask about those stories now. That connection is gone.
Information on this board needs to be free flowing. It should not be “question asked, answer given” only. Does a comment on over spray need to be mentioned 10 times? I don’t know, but I suspect some of those comments will be in reference to a ’57 and some about a ’59, or about some other variation. Also, those comments should not be limited to one section of the board as that is just limiting information. Information should be shared as it comes to mind. To propose limits to that only serves to limit information for those who come after us.
In the end, I dare say that returning to as original/OEM as possible is what the future has in store for many of our cars. There was a time when cutting and flaring the wheel wells and adding another pair of tail lights was considered nothing for a mid-year Corvette. How many of those are trying to be returned to stock now? We are even seeing an increasing desire to not restore a car that is a presentable “original”. Stock is always the baseline by which modifications are measured. Otherwise, how do we know what is modified?
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Location: The Mile High City | Posterity? Harumph! One day, a large solar flare will release a cone of magnetic energy right over Pennsylvania and this whole website will be completely and irrevocably erased. Pop! - As if it never even existed! Who knows, it could happen next week.
My only interest is to find out the exact positions of each point on each lug nut on each wheel as the car rolled off the assembly line before the pop happens.
This may be the mother of all hijacked threads! And on my favorite type of car too! Pshaw. It has become more civil though. I'll tell Neil to come back. |
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Location: Pau, S-W France | d500neil - 2010-03-09 9:43 PM
Phil: ALSO ask him to check up-behind the glove box; he may just be in for a PLEASANT surprise....
Sorry to re-open this subject but yesterday i met my friend at his home. I slide my hand behind the glove box but i found only a small part of the sheet ....
I take some pics of the data plate:
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Location: The Mile High City | A charcoal body with silver fins and trunk. That is an unusual color combination - I think I prefer the light blue that the car is painted now. For my own personal preference, I think a silver body with the charcoal fins and deck would be more appealing than the reverse.
Neil, I think this is the only color combination for which the reverse is listed in the Ross Roy book under the Deluxe paint scheme. Not that that book is fully accurate. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Just to put a 'period' at the end of this sentence: the red/silver painted convertible, according to the P/t plate info
on it, was painted....drumroll......
......all black, and it is a real single-4 D500 convertible.
As it was not OEM undercoated, it apparently was badly corroded, and received a 'complete' floorpan replacement, but
the renovator did not install OEM floor pan material to it, which is a shame.
It is a highly optioned car, and, I believe, Max will arrange to re-restore it, properly.
Phil, of all the 4-corners of a Broadcast Sheet to find, that right-lower one is the MOST valuable, as that corner
of the Broadcast Sheet is the only area, of any document (including the P/T plate, B.-Sheet and/or IBM card copy)
which confirms how the dash board was to be painted.
In your friend's car's instance, this corner of the B-Sheet confirms that the entire dashboard was to be painted all-black;
not 2-toned.
And, you can see where it has a padded dash; altho the padded dash status is also confirmed on the IBM card.
Edited by d500neil 2010-04-09 8:34 PM
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Location: Sept. 1958 | This 58 Dodge is going to be auctioned on Sept 24, 2016, along with 57 Flite and 58 Dome convertibles.
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/dodge/d500/187362... |
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Location: The Mile High City | Nice, Matt! It looks like Max divested in some of his Forward Lookers!
Boy, that De Soto has come a looooooooooooooong way since 2004 when Bill K. pulled it out of a junkyard in New York!
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2774&posts=28&highlight=new york desoto conv black&highlightmode=1#M203682
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Location: The Mile High City | A picture of the Dodge too - not much has changed in the last six years with this one.
I hope they put a set of those repro deflectors on it!
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Location: Sept. 1958 | Yeah what a transformation on the Desoto, where did you get the photo Mike? The website I went to only had the one that I saw and it was different than that one. I may go to this auction.
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Location: Sept. 1958 | That Dodge is a stunner of a car! |
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Location: The Mile High City | both are gorgeous!
Matt, I went to your link and then followed another link to the "the Boston Cup Auction"
http://www.dragoneauctions.com/ From there, I clicked inventory and it had a few images of each car. I had to crop and reduce the images to post them on this site though. |
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Location: The Mile High City | I was surprised to see these for sale. The last time I talked to Max, he had plans to put these on private display in Austria. I thought they had made there way there for sure! |
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Location: The Mile High City | That '57 Fireflite convertible in the auction must be the dusty one....
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=60964&posts=10&highlight=57 desoto conv&highlightmode=1#M505802 lookin' good now! Matt, this would be a fun auction to see in person! |
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Location: Sept. 1958 | Yeah it would be awesome to see them in the flesh. I missed seeing the black and copper CR convertible, remember the Regal tribute one at auction in 2014. The 57 Flite at auction is the one he had restored, remember it was that peach color custom one that was for sale back in 2010, not the one in that link. He did have a thread on it, titled "homework done..." |
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Location: The Mile High City | ...ah! I do remember Ms. Peach! As soon as I saw the current pictures, I though of Mr. Dusty in L.A.
I guess Mr. Dusty now has a twinsie.
I hope you are able to go, Matt - so many great cars in this one! I remember the copper and black tribute. Hernando's Hideaway car.
It was cool, but I am more impressed with this stable.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-09-14 5:50 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | A couple more nifty '58s at that Boston Cup this weekend:
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1958-dodge-custom-royal-lancer-d-500-convertible/ http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1958-dodge-suburban-spectator-9-passenger-wagon/
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-09-21 2:59 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | Wow Mike!!! Never seen that convertible before. I've booked a room at the Revere for Friday, I'm only gonna stay one night. Would like to be around for the Concours Sunday though, darn. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Yeah, pretty spectacular! I have never seen either either The Suburban has been a bit more customized than the convertible, but they are awesome individually and truly magnificent together.
The convertible is one heavily-optioned car and the Suburban has factory air conditioning as its one outstanding option. They were both all white cars, but I can't remember seeing images in any dressing.
We have Greg Leggatt to take issue with on these two - he's been holding out on us!
Matt, I hope you (of all people!) get a chance to see these even if you are leaving on Saturday - you would think these cars would be there early!
I am totally jealous not to be going to this one!!! 
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-09-21 3:00 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1728
Location: Fleetwood, Pa | I'm guessing the SS fin extensions may have been added to the convertible during it's restoration.....I'm not seeing any other SS trim?? Personally, I don't really care for them, but that's just my opinion....
Edited by sidesho_bob1961 2016-09-21 3:04 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | Mike, these cars will be on display for inspection Friday and Saturday morning before the auction, so I'll have plenty of time to look at the Dodge and the Desotos, even though sometimes you just don't get enough time. I plan on driving up very early Friday morning and leave sometime in the afternoon on Saturday.
Bob, yes this convertible was built in early November 1957, at that time no Spring trim was available or even created. The Paris Rose paint was also a Spring addition (Dodge didn't offer a Paris Rose matching interior), though they probably should have. |
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Location: The Mile High City | As far as the fin caps go, I think they are better when they are matched with the wide license plate escutcheon. I think the reverse is true as well.
As I was going through the images of the one-of-none "Suburban Spectator" I kept hoping it would have customized in the external spare tire compartment! Regardless, it is really cool.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-09-21 5:06 PM
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Expert
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Location: Sept. 1958 | I went to the auction preview yesterday and also this morning for a bit, left before the auction though so I don't have the results. But here are some photos of the cars. Max had 23 cars in this auction, will have the remaining 23 next Spring at auction.
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Lancer Mike - 2016-09-21 2:55 PM
Yeah, pretty spectacular! I have never seen either either The Suburban has been a bit more customized than the convertible, but they are awesome individually and truly magnificent together.
The convertible is one heavily-optioned car and the Suburban has factory air conditioning as its one outstanding option. They were both all white cars, but I can't remember seeing images in any dressing.
We have Greg Leggatt to take issue with on these two - he's been holding out on us!
Matt, I hope you (of all people! ) get a chance to see these even if you are leaving on Saturday - you would think these cars would be there early!
I am totally jealous not to be going to this one!!! :jealous:
What do you mean, "holding out" ?
Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | BTW, Mike, I sent you a copy of the rubbing of that cars body plate in Aug 2015. I asked what you thought about a 6 in the 20th space!! You didn't have an opinion.
I gave my interpretation of that body plate to Jay Robinson. He also told me he had a Suburban. I also gave my interpretation of a body plate rubbing for a 57 CRL coupe D500.
Small world, huh?
Greg
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Posts: 1886
| Really neat looking cars. Curious what they went for. |
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Location: The Mile High City | LD3 Greg - 2016-09-24 9:10 PM
BTW, Mike, I sent you a copy of the rubbing of that cars body plate in Aug 2015. I asked what you thought about a 6 in the 20th space!! You didn't have an opinion.
Guilty as charged! I guess my memory is the only one holding out on us!!!
So did you conclude the number 6 in the 20th space was a "sold car", customer waiting? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Matt, did you get images of the other CRL convertible, the Suburban, and the '58 Firedome convertible? Did you see Max? I wonder why he is selling everything? |
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | Lancer Mike - 2016-09-27 11:15 AM
Matt, did you get images of the other CRL convertible, the Suburban, and the '58 Firedome convertible? Did you see Max? I wonder why he is selling everything?
No, this auction was kind of strange in a sense the cars were on display in the sixth floor of a parking garage in Boston. I'm not sure where the Suburban and other CRL convertible were at, from the sound of it there was a show somewhere in Boston (not in city?) with these cars at on Sunday. I got one photo of the Firedome. Not sure why he is selling, may have just gotten out of them? |
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | I thought the 20th spot was for what kind of glass was in car? |
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Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Lancer Mike - 2016-09-27 11:15 AM
Matt, did you get images of the other CRL convertible, the Suburban, and the '58 Firedome convertible? Did you see Max? I wonder why he is selling everything?
We met Max in Vienna in 2011. The mighty nice young guy. As liked businesses such as investment. He saw these Forward Look cars as investments. He liked them too. But most investments, we got that impression. (Could be wrong ..)
He also had other interests than just cars. Interest may have changed over the years.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=35528&...
Edited by Windsor59 2016-09-27 2:58 PM
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Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | BTW, no Mike, I don't believe Max was there. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | christine-lover - 2016-09-27 12:25 PM
I thought the 20th spot was for what kind of glass was in car?
Yes, it is. But I have never seen a 6 there before. I gave Jay (who I thought was the owner at that time) specific glass things to look for and report back to me. I didn't hear back!
Greg |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 628
Location: Lubbock, TX | I just got off the phone with Alex Dragone, the broker for the cars; The 1958 D500 Convertible was bid to $95k and did not sell. They're asking price is $110k. Of the forward look cars there, the only ones to change hands were the 300C Convert at $100K and the 300G 3spd Coupe at $110K. |
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Location: The Mile High City | The Paris Rose and Black CRL D500 was bid to $102,500 on BaT, but did not meet reserve.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1958-dodge-custom-royal-lancer-d-500-convertible/ The Suburban "Spectator" apparently sold on BaT for $31,750 http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1958-dodge-suburban-spectator-9-passenger-wagon/
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-09-29 6:03 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | The two Paris Rose cars are from the same seller as this car:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=61177&... |
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Location: The Mile High City | I wonder if that owner and Max are seeing a bubble about to pop?
The wagon seems to be pretty well-bought: 1) you can't even find the car; and b) the sale price is less than the restoration cost.
However, you look at Ferraris - they often stretch up to $3,000,000 and beyond. At some point, there has to be an overall cap for a car - I don't care how rare and sexy it is.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-09-30 1:45 PM
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