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| Did the factory put 3 speed manual trans behind all 1957 D501s ? I'm being offered a D501 conv with TF. Red flag??? Will the cowl tag tell the engine option ? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Dave:
A D 501 convertible is nothing at which to sneeze.
I'm sure Neil will have all the scoop, but something already looks fishy - PNT 1LLL is supposed to be Glacier White.
If someone had a real D 501 convertible (one of the few times you can actually say "one of 23 built"), why would they customize it at all?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-06-24 5:49 PM
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Location: Iowa USA | The three speed manual transmissions could not handle the power. The TF was a much better option.
Used to know a couple brothers that ran a dealership in northern Iowa. In 57 they both got new 1957 Plymouth Fury hardtops. One got the automatic the other wanted the stick shift. The brother with the stick car said he had to change the transmission several times because the trans could not take the power. The D 501 would be even more powerful and would tear up the old three speeds. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Dave; get the car's VIN....
All known (10 or so not-yet-confirmed, out of 102+, including prototypes)....built have the manual transmission.
It's hard to read that P/T plate, but that car appears to be a 501 vert, and is coded for having the manual trannie.
The size of the manual transmission did not allow power steering to be installed; go ask the seller about THAT feature.
This heavily-loaded ride also has manual brakes----manual: trannie/brakes/steering---FUN car to lug
around town, but, hey, it's a conVERTible, (but with a POWER top mechanism!).
I'd like to see what that car's Scheduled build date is; a lot of the 501's were weirdly and/or heavily optioned in order
to make them attractive to potential buyers and lucrative to the selling dealerships, which, in some instances, were
"awarded" a 501 as the result of meeting some sales quota, etc.
This vert was so heavily optioned that it appears to have undercoating and Solex glass and all of the major option groups!
It "is" all-Glacier-White ('Sorry about that red paint!) with a black top and gold/black interior scheme/motif.
There was a "red/white" D501 vert alleged to be located in/around the PA area; dunno if 'this' (all-white) one is 'that'
car, but, it looks like another vert has surfaced---that makes for three known survivors (out of at least 23 being accounted-for
as having been built).
At least one verified-convertible's engine still exists, too.
Anyone buying this car would be a fool not to restore it to its OEM condition.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-24 7:10 PM
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| Here is the VIN plate
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Location: Seville, OH | One easy telltale sign is the use of the big (5.0 in) wheel bolt circle from the Imperial. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: CA | Stop teasing and show us the car already! That's a honey of a car I'm sure, great find! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | 15" wheels, with the big bolt circle and 9/16" studs.
Stand by for news, but, a 501 matching your car's description has been located in the records that researcher
Darrell Davis has compiled, to date.
BTW, what is the car's engine number?
There is no sequential stamping numbers on the engines; they were apparently installed virtually at random, but, the
engine numbers are recorded on the IBM Build Cards.
Also, forgot to mention that this very-civilian-ized vert has a OEM heater/defroster and a radio/fender antenna---the IBM card
will be necessary to confirm whether it might instead have dual antennae; it is possible....
The car has been re-painted in both the red, and the white; the VIN tag was originally just popped on after the car
was painted, so, the removal of the red shouldn't be too difficult, if it is merely applied across the middle "saddle" area of the car.
SMS carries in stock the correct upholstery cloth & vinyl, and they can make-up the correct door/quarter panel vinyl, too.
Another thing that I'm curious about is whether either of the seats will be "Air Foam" padded.
All Coros came standard with only (non-padded) Jute seat-spring coverings; this info will be shown
on the IBM card copy, as well.
Easy resto, except, maybe, for the floor covering.
All 57 Coros & Royals came standard with rubber floor mats.
Carpeting was optionally available, and will be so-coded (only) on the IBM cards, but, carpeting was an otherwise rarely
tendered option on the low line Coronet models.
As no company (TIAAO-) remanufactures the rubber floor mats, you may be forced to install carpeting,
but, since this car is undercoated, it might well have carpeted floors.
With this car's 15" wheels, and the way that it is option-coded, this vehicle should have the 1956 15" (shortie-flipper)
spinner wheel covers on it.
It is possible (but not probable, at this late-date) that this car's Broadcast Sheet might still be found, taped to the back
of the glove box.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-25 6:45 PM
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Swept57 - 2011-06-25 8:53 AM One easy telltale sign is the use of the big (5.0 in) wheel bolt circle from the Imperial. The Imperial bolt pattern is a 5.5" bolt pattern. All other Mopars of the Forward Look era are 4.5" pattern.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The new owner of this 501 will still need to buy the car's Birth Certificate (the IBM build card copy),
but, it now appears that this ride (with manual steering/brakes/trannie) does have optional OEM dual
antennae and carpeting.
Dodge could have put power brakes on this car, but didn't, for whatever reason.
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Location: Seville, OH | StillOutThere - 2011-06-25 11:29 AM
Swept57 - 2011-06-25 8:53 AM One easy telltale sign is the use of the big (5.0 in) wheel bolt circle from the Imperial. The Imperial bolt pattern is a 5.5" bolt pattern. All other Mopars of the Forward Look era are 4.5" pattern.
I couldn't remember the exact number so I guessed at 5.0. Sad thing is I was too lazy to go out in the garage and measure. 
This is a huge find if it turns out to be real! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | The 5.0 was pretty much a Mustang thing and Mopar had very little involvement after
selling off their Equine Division in late 1958.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Speaking of manual-everything; I was re-reading the Hot Rod issue where they drove a 58 Fury stick/manual steering
and brakes and a 3.73 rear end across country and loved the experience.
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Location: CA | I suppose if someone were to "give" me a car like that to test it would be O-K. It certainly doesn't sound like a dream cruise to me, I love powerful cars but it's not ALL about the power. Plus a '58 Fury isn't all THAT powerful (by standards of today anyhow). |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 3.73 gears mean a wound out speed of about 50. You could push it to 65, but she'd be humming
HARD ! Imagine that across all those wide open spaces between L.A. and Tucumcari ! Such a car
would very much be a specialty use vehicle and long runs would NOT be what such a car was built
for. 
I've never noticed that much difference in power between many of the FL cars. My DeSoto would
likely hold a Fury on a 0-60 run. I never cared about the power. It is about the curb appeal. My
66 Coronet will run circles around any FL I've driven, but looks like a box you might ship parts in
by comparison ! The Forward Look "speed" is far more visual than actual. Not that they don't get
up and go, ... just that they LOOK even faster when sitting still !!!! 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | At the end of the road testing, H.R. said that "their" Fury (which the author did not rule out buying!) would have the
T/Flite and power steering, and the 2.93 (!) or the 3.15 rear gears.
They reportedly ran that 3.73 gear (which is standard ratio with the 3-speed stick) for 2,600 miles across country.
"With all windows closed against the cold weather, the quietness of the car was immediately noticeable. Wind and engine
noise was negligible even though we were travelling at a fairly fast clip at times and engine rpm's were often pretty high
due to the 3.73 gear ratio".
Men were men, back then.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-28 4:18 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Back on thread, for a moment; the D501 has the 3.73 gear as standard ratio, but anything from 2.92 to 6.17 was
optionally available.
No overdrive trannie was available, because it was too weak (N/A even for the '58 Fury, above).
The 3.73-gear would be effectively raised to a higher-ratio (lower numerically) for better fuel economy
and lower engine speeds by the use of the 15" wheels/7.60x15" tires on the D501's, compared to that of the 14" wheels/tires
which were installed on all of the rest of the 57+ FWDLK'ers.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-28 4:32 PM
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Location: CA | I guess the greater percentage of FL auto buying public weren't men as more auto trans cars were built and sold than manual, factory "hot-rods" included? Somehow I think "men" controlled the family financial purchases in a much more controlling fashion than today. So taking that into account were they somehow less than "men" for preferring an auto trans than a clunky breakage prone (in my words) inferior manual trans? Most drag racers also preferred the torqueflite trans and I wouldn't call anyone with a 4-1000 hp hemi motor stuffed literally between their legs less than "men". Just a thought..
Edited by Finsinthemirror 2011-06-28 9:07 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Beginning of the Wimp era, yeah...
These road testers wanted to experience how the real-car operated, and so got a no-excuses model
to drive across country.
At the end of the testing, they wanted some creature comforts!
The D501 was created as a race car, albeit stillborn, thanks pretty much to Kiekaefer's withdrawl from
NASCAR involvement, but also due to the Corporation's almost complete dis-interest in the (positive) effects
of racing results' effects on vehicle sales.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-28 9:19 PM
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| I'm still waiting ( on the edge of my seat ) for more details and most importantly.....price. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Finsinthemirror - 2011-06-29 6:05 PM
I guess the greater percentage of FL auto buying public weren't men as more auto trans cars were built and sold than manual, factory "hot-rods" included? Somehow I think "men" controlled the family financial purchases in a much more controlling fashion than today. So taking that into account were they somehow less than "men" for preferring an auto trans than a clunky breakage prone (in my words) inferior manual trans? Most drag racers also preferred the torqueflite trans and I wouldn't call anyone with a 4-1000 hp hemi motor stuffed literally between their legs less than "men". Just a thought..
**********************************************************
"When men were men" is a common figure of speech to denote a time when someone
had to "buckle down" and just get the job done. Methinks you are being too literal ?
Having driven these cars in stick configuration, in both floor and column applications,
it is a testament to the paradigm of the times what a buying public considered "acceptable".
They are NOT smooth and easy cars to drive and an automatic is beyond comparison easier
to drive. But I remember talking with old timers way back who revealed clues about the time.
They said things like "Dad never trusted those newfangled automatics", or my favorite from
my own grandfather ... radios do not belong in cars. They are nothing but a distraction and
will get you in an accident !
Those were indeed different times.
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2011-06-28 9:14 PM
Beginning of the Wimp era, yeah...
These road testers wanted to experience how the real-car operated, and so got a no-excuses model
to drive across country.
At the end of the testing, they wanted some creature comforts!
The D501 was created as a race car, albeit stillborn, thanks pretty much to Kiekaefer's withdrawl from
NASCAR involvement, but also due to the Corporation's almost complete dis-interest in the (positive) effects
of racing results' effects on vehicle sales.
Not to mention the auto manufacturers backed out of racing in 1957, with the decision not to advertise speed and racing. No sense in dumping cash into product you can't tell anyone you're selling.
Prior to that Chrysler did push racing. Advertising for the 1955 Chrysler 300 and 1956 300B, Fury and D-500 pushed racing and speed records set by their products. Chevy and Ford were the same. 1957, though, was a different story across the whole industry. Even the AAA got out of racing and handed their almost 60 years of keeping the nation's racing records over to another group.
Today we would say racing became politically incorrect in 1957.
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-06-28 9:37 PM
Finsinthemirror - 2011-06-29 6:05 PM
I guess the greater percentage of FL auto buying public weren't men as more auto trans cars were built and sold than manual, factory "hot-rods" included? Somehow I think "men" controlled the family financial purchases in a much more controlling fashion than today. So taking that into account were they somehow less than "men" for preferring an auto trans than a clunky breakage prone (in my words) inferior manual trans? Most drag racers also preferred the torqueflite trans and I wouldn't call anyone with a 4-1000 hp hemi motor stuffed literally between their legs less than "men". Just a thought..
**********************************************************
"When men were men" is a common figure of speech to denote a time when someone
had to "buckle down" and just get the job done. Methinks you are being too literal ?
Having driven these cars in stick configuration, in both floor and column applications,
it is a testament to the paradigm of the times what a buying public considered "acceptable".
They are NOT smooth and easy cars to drive and an automatic is beyond comparison easier
to drive. But I remember talking with old timers way back who revealed clues about the time.
They said things like "Dad never trusted those newfangled automatics", or my favorite from
my own grandfather ... radios do not belong in cars. They are nothing but a distraction and
will get you in an accident !
Those were indeed different times.
Grandpa was on to something there, fiddling with the radio is distracting Its only gotten worse since then, my new kenwood in my Porsche was hellish to learn coming from my previous alpine. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Bill cites a commonly held mythology about cause and effect in regards to Chrysler's abandonment of its 'support' and its
advertising of organized racing efforts.
The American Manufacturers Association's voluntary ban on the factory (of which, Chrysler had NONE, in 1957) sponsorship of
specific racing teams, took effect on 6/6/57, which occurred before the 25th race of that season (on 6/10/57) in a 53 race season.
According to "NASCAR Newsletter" of 6/21/57 : "Favorable reaction seen to Factory Race withdrawal : The apparent divorce of
the auto industry from racing and other tests of speed occasioned no particular stir at NASCAR International Headquarters as the
decision was made official following a June 6 meeting of the directors of the [A.M.A.] in Detroit.
The decision, of course, had been expected for some time and took no one by surprise. The general idea was that there would be
little or no effect on the general alignment of cars and drivers for 1957....i.e., the so-called factory drivers were expected to continue
on in an independent basis, undoubtedly in the same cars.
It was expected, however, to give a further boost to the 'little fellows' who figured on getting back into stock car racing with a real
chance of winning.
NASCAR President Bill France expressed himself by saying that the absence of factory-sponsored participation will put automobile
racing back as more of a sports affair than it has been since the entrance of manufacturers into the field [of racing sponsorship]."
.....During the height of Kiekaefer's racing success in 1955-1956, Chrysler barely promoted or advertised the 300/D500 successes
as being relevant or beneficial to the general buying public, other than in specific Daytona Beach records being posted for the 300 and
in some non-specific drag racing situation advertisements for the D500.
Chrysler's honchos (remember KT Keller's edict about early 50's Mopes having to have enough headroom so as to being able to wear
[top-]hats inside their cars?) were old-schoolers, not hot-rodders, at heart.
After the Hemi was introduced in 1951, it took several years (1955?) before a 4-barrel carb was OEM installed on it, and (dirty-
little-secret:) all of the Hemi engines received woefully under-advanced distributor systems, so that their true performance
capabilities were never tapped, at the OEM-level (but, that's another thread-subject!).
In 1957, there were a couple similar "Timing Association" advertisements for the Fury V800 option, but, nothing for the D500
model(s) in regards to any 'competitive' situations.
So, Chrysler had ZERO to forfeit by the June 1956 A.M.A. voluntary ban on the sponsorship or advertising of any racing results, because
Kiekaefer's racing efforts terminated after the 1956 NASCAR season, and Dodge didn't try to field any 1957 racing teams.
BTW, it is widely accepted that Chubbie (and probably Fart) continued its racing sponsorships/assistance "under-the-table" to selected
racing teams after the A.M.A. racing/promotion ban was enacted.
Racing results were posted and discussed in the automotive publications, and anyone who cared about racing or brand loyalty always
knew who-won-what racing event.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-29 4:14 PM
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Location: CA | You can "thinks" what you want. Nothing I said was subject to opinion, it was fact. I've driven plenty of different configurations of these cars too and I'd take an auto over a manual ANY day. It has nothing to do with being liberal or being lazy. From every practical standpoint (even historical racing) the torquflite is a superior trans and will stomp all over the manual trans everywhere. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | d500neil - 2011-06-29 3:02 PM SNIP After the Hemi was introduced in 1951, it took several years (1955?) before a 4-barrel carb was OEM installed on it, and (dirty- little-secret:) all of the Hemi engines received woefully under-advanced distributor systems, so that their true performance capabilities were never tapped, at the OEM-level (but, that's another thread-subject!). SNIP Both Chrysler and Imperial first offered WCFB four barrel carburetors late in the 1953 model year. In fact, Chrysler had available a dual quad intake manifold late in the 1953 model year. So whatever is being quoted here (no attribution is given -- is this original from you Neil?) is quite wrong about "several years" before Chrysler put a 4bbl on the hemi; it was mid to late 1953. NO CAR had a 4bbl carb in 1951 and I believe ONLY Buick and Cadillac offered the 4bbl in 1952 so Chrysler Corp. was right in the mainstream with their 1953 introduction of 4bbl carbs and intakes. Hudson never got a 4bbl on their Detroit production. Studebaker waited until 1955.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Nope----the "1955" was a SWAG....that's why I put the "(?)" after that date.
The part about the miserably deficient distributor advancements in all the Hemi's is fact.
But, if you want to discuss the dissies, let's do it on another, proper, thread.
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Location: Under the X in Texas | This 3' x 4' poster in black and yellow hanging on the wall of your Chrysler Plymouth dealer show room in 1956 seems to speak to the idea that Chrysler was employing a bit of the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" philosophy, don't we think?
 ($(KGrHqIOKp0E1q0356Z)BNcqRorl1w~~_12.jpg)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | "Sponsored by Kiekaefer Corp."
oh, yeah....
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Location: Golden, CO | Hemi Dave, You could get a manual or Torqueflite. The advantages to a manual would be launch control at the drags and better engine braking at the roundy rounds. The manual was a new design for 57 and was a bit better than the 40-56 version. The torquefite was a better overall trans but did need some refining when it came to shift points. I think the optional 57 390 hp 300s used the manual. Lee Smiths D501 has a stick, originally this was Arnie Beeswicks racer. Hope this helps. Tim in Golden |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I hope this isn't too off-topic, but this 3-speed manual (reworked or new ?) for 57 ....
.. was this the same one put in all HP apps through the fin era, or can anyone cite the
lineage as the manual transmission was evolved through these years for performance ?
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| I keep waiting for a photo or some documentation that this car is the real deal. I didn't even know that they ever made a D501 Convert, so I am very interested to see if this car is for real! |
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Location: Golden, CO | There is one known D501 convertible. It was featured in Mopar Collectors Guide about 15 years ago or more. The car has not showed up anywhere since (that I know of). As for the manual trans the 57 was almost totally new and went to 59 and then was changed again to some degree so 55-56, 57-59, 60-61 would be a breakdown. Tim in Golden
Edited by Dash One 2011-06-30 11:53 AM
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Dash One - 2011-06-30 10:51 AM SNIP " ... would be a breakdown." Tim in Golden Tim, When talking stick transmissions and race cars, could I request that if at all possible you wouldn't mind using some other descriptive word than "breakdown". LOL ROF
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Location: Parts Unknown | The D-501 ran the race modified 354 Hemi, correct ? |
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Posts: 4654
| Carjock, bear with me, I'm still waiting also. When someone other than the actual owner is involved, you never know the outcome. I've even had owners themselves decide not to sell after they initially ask me if I'm interested. Sometimes they are price shopping. I'm hoping this one is real. |
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Location: Seville, OH | Dash One - 2011-06-30 8:51 AM
There is one known D501 convertible. It was featured in Mopar Collectors Guide about 15 years ago or more. The car has not showed up anywhere since (that I know of).
In addition to the convertible featured in MCG (which was described as having an automatic, but since it was purportedly a Chrysler exec car it could have come with special options), there is one being restored in California. I have heard rumors of another one as well. Dave |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I got a cold call from a guy who said he was from Yakima and had an all-white D-501
he wanted to sell.
I am spacing out on if he said it was a ragtop or not ....... but I think he said it was.
I called Neil about verifying its original build status, but never heard back from the
seller or got an answer when calling back. Neil, do you remember what I told you ?
I think he was just shopping a big buck and I wasn't ga-ga enough to "bother with".
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Location: Seville, OH | I am pretty sure that the one that came out of Washington state was a sedan. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Oh, man; major brain-fart, there, Brent; I do not recall our having discussed the availability of a D501, or else,
the car turned out to be a D500 & I've forgotten about 'it'....
Tim, et al: ONLY a 3-speed manual trannie was OEM available in all of the D501's.
That 9/91 issue of MCG confirmed that the car's original owner, "Sonny Benson" had the car be converted to a T/Flite
trannie, and that Mr. Benson was a corporate VP, of some stripe.
That car was last 'seen' in that issue, but Benson/the car reportedly resided in TX, and that article was 2nd-hand ghost-
written, by its author, who only had friend-of-a-friend type info on Benson/the car, when I contacted MCG, back in '91
about trying to research the car.
The article's photos appear to be several 'casually-presented' items and not particularly detailed or professionally obtained.
Neither Mr. Benson's nor this car's current whereabouts are known.
The second real D501 vert is presently being restored (and having its engine be re-united with its OEM body/chassis
in the process) in CA.
Yes, the D501 has a heavily modified 300B engine in it. It was/is a monster, but it was emasculated by its 3-speed stick
trannie.
Brent, I've been, informally, trying to understand the evolution of the 3-speed stick, over the decades, and am still trying
to confirm what its last and best iteration was, as far as synchronization and gear spacing, and maybe overdrive is
concerned.
The 50's OD-stick was too weak( and that's saying something) even for the standard V/8 engines, according to Hot Rod magazine.
The 501 never ran in NASCAR, because, altho Dodge played by the rules and planned for the production of 100+ of them,
after K. got out of NASCAR, Dodge reportedly (as commented upon by Sandy Grady, in his "Stock Report" article in Speed Age
[forget the issue date, right now]..."Dodge bigwigs have approached one top Grand National driver [probably Lee Petty or
Cotton Owens] with the idea of organizing a racing stable."
That same article mentions K.'s withdrawl from NASCAR, so the article's preparation apparently occurred sometime after K.
abandoned his racing efforts.
I have no records confirming precisely when K. got out of NASCAR, but this article talks about the up-coming 1957 season (which
began on 11/11/56), so, with the magazine's 3-month lead time, the article was probably written or referenced to June/July/August
of 1956. The referenced Speed Age page-copy is not dated; got the mag at home, though.
Anyway, Dodge's D501 program was almost certainly prepared in anticipation of K.'s pending 1957 season, and K. may well
have had direct input into the 501's features.
After K.'s pull-out, Dodge was left with a commitment to build 100+ 501's (NASCAR requirement), but with nobody to campaign
them.
This might have been a bit of a Perfect Storm, but NASCAR rules also said that the announcement of the availability of any new
sanctioned car-model (which the 501 certainly was) be made "at least 90 days prior to participation in a NASCAR sanctioned
event."
There also was to have been "suitable national advertising through the manufacturer's regular national advertising media at least
30 days prior to the [first-] event."
Dodge never tried to make any public announcements or advertising about the 501's creation, perhaps due to the procedural
difficulties in arranging for the creation of a completely-factory-new NASCAR racing program.
At any rate, no factory, or privateer team-driver was contracted, and the corporation (which was probably fully-focused in getting
the quantom-ly new 57's into production, and making some serious money, after the disappointing 1956 selling-year) didn't
want to be distracted by organizing some 'racing-team' and the very-special-building of only a 100-car production run, probably
said scrooit, and postponed the 501 production until way-later in the model year (late March---and, as we know, most of the 501's
that were built were heavily optioned, to make them attractive/sell-able/profitable).
Interestingly, three prototype 501's were (somehow) allowed to appear in/at the FEB 57 Daytona Speed Weeks trials, but with only
two of them making official runs (E.Lile & E. Lyons) "...men off of the street", as Hot Rod so eloquently described them, in
Class 7, for "Over 350 c.i.", with Lile copping 4th (out of the top 5 results-recorded, in a Sports Illustrated article on the festivities) in
the Standing Mile, and with Lyons also scoring 4th in the Flying mile (with only the top 5 results being listed).
Neither man got higher than 4th (apparently) in the 'other-of-the-two' events.
300C's got first in both of those classifications, with R. Byron getting Flying Mile, and B. Shaw getting Standing Mile awards.
BTW, K. did get one of the first production 501's (on 3/22/57) a hardtop which was put onto a convertible chassis---for
extra strength.
There are no known racing trials recorded for K.'s car, and its disposition/whereabouts are unknown---it was Coral & white,
though, and did have a heater in it.
No D501 ever officially raced in a NASCAR event, altho Dick Joslin did race a "1957 Dodge" hardtop, for owner Doc White, in the
58 Daytona Beach race---he started in 29th and finished in 43rd, retiring after 6 laps (of 39) with "hose" failure (cooked engine???).
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:29 PM
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| Neil,
Isn't the D501 conv in CA being built using the original drivetrain, VIN, and cowl tag from the car it came from the factory with, a car that was deemed too rusted/wrecked to restore years ago? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Dave, the OEM body/chassis still exists; hopefully the restorer will still use at least the chassis, because it is dedicated
to the car; the body panels and misc. equipment are all interchangeable items.
But, no, the final result can never be claimed as being a "Survivor"!
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Location: Golden, CO | Neil, I have a comprehensive spec book compiled from Chrysler records in 1960. It states Torqueflite was available. These spec sheets list even the carbs for the D501 which were different than 300b or the Super D500. This book is very comprehensive and is one of the few books that lists correctly all the Dodge D500-1 info for 56. It shows that 57 D501 stick cars had @ 12 available optional ratios with a 3.73 standard and the D501 auto had a 3.18 standard with 2 optional ratios. The book refers to all three models of the 57 D500 cars, the D500, Super D500, and D501. I am at work now but I was looking it over earlier concerning this thread. I can refer to it more later.
Edited by Dash One 2011-06-30 4:34 PM
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Location: Under the X in Texas | E.C. Kiekhaefer officially quit NASCAR in January of 1957. By February he had ordered his first of three "Road America competition coupe" 300C hardtops built again on a convertible frame. His intention was to stay out of the oval races but to enter the road racing series which NASCAR was running at the time. His re-entry as a participant would have been at the Road America race course at Elkhart Lake, WI, not that far from Mercury Marine in Fond du Lac and his race car Plant #6 in Oshkosh, WI. I own the only surviving Road Am. comp. coupe. That road race series was cancelled immediately preceding the June race at Road America. Kiekhaefer dabbled in sports car racing for several years thereafter but was never a serious entry. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Tim, that must be in error (a factory error?) because of the 92 D501's that Darrell Davis has found IBM cards-on,
EVERY one (including 23 verts) was built with the mighty 3-speed manual trannie in it.
There were a total of 14 rear-gear ratios available: 3.73 (standard), 2.92, 3.18, 3.36, 3.54, 3.91, 4.1, 4.3, 4.56,
4.89, 5.12, 5.38, 5.83, and 6.17 .---that would make 13 "optional" gear ratios; 14-total ratios.
Again, NO automatic transmissions were OEM-installed in any (of the 92-found-to-date) D501s----
at least 10 cars (hardtops, probably, as their BDY codings are significantly different from the verts & the sedans, but not necessarily
HT's) IBM cards are yet to be found.
...And, as my Freshman Psych prof said, in Re: Ghosts: " It's not that I do not believe in them, SHOW me
one."
Any/all 501's will have Birth Certificates that will confirm their trannie status.
No auto-trannie 501's have been found, to date, and the "January 1957" A.M.A. Specification Sheets state categorically,
that only the 3-speed manual was available in the 501's.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:03 PM
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| Neil,
I may be wrong, but I thought the guy that is building it, or someone "in the know" said that that original body was crushed. Back then, a lot of cars were "totalled", thinking that it was not worth fixing them. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Tim didn't say any torqueflite D-501s were necessaily BUILT. He said the paperwork documents that torqueflite was AVAILABLE with a D-501 package. Looks to me like he was offering support for the POSSIBILITY of an automatic equipped car. That doesn't make the paperwork WRONG. Just because all so far existing are manual trans doesn't eliminate the documentation of the next found car to be torqueflite equipped, now does it?
The 390 HP 300Cs could only be ordered as manual trans cars. ONLY be so-ordered. Yet Kiekhaefer received two 390HP cars with torqueflites. We are talking 1957 here and anything was possible if you placed cash on the salesman's desk and enough of it was sent to the factory. ANYTHING; to heck with the books. For that matter show me how any hardtop could be ordered with a convertible frame. My 300C has had one since new. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | S.o.T., K. may have "officially" bailed on NASCAR in 1/57, but Speed Age was commenting upon his leaving
"breaking-the-news" (buried in the body of the article), in that mid-late 1956 issue that I've got, with its
standard 3-month preparation lead-time.
The article's author refers to the up-coming NASCAR season, and the season began on 11/11/56.
Mr. Grady states: " After months of rumors, Carl K. has made a move to quit the stock car battlefield." ....
..."I expect to see K.'s 'Big White Cars' in a few races this year, although his own name may not be prominently associated
with the stable."
K. is quoted, saying to Mr Grady: " ..If I compete at all, it will not be at every 'bullring' in the country as we have tried to do--but
only in the big events".
So, it may be accurately stated that K. "officially" decided to get outta NASCAR (when he failed to show up at any of their
races) but, his decision to bail out from NASCAR was effectively made sometime DURING the spring/summer of the 1956
racing season, as is reported in Mr. Grady's Speed Age article.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:21 PM
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Location: Seville, OH | The vert being restored in CA has the body and frame. The current owner told me all the details of where it was found and what he got. It is rough but much worse have been restored. Dave |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | OK, Wayne, until an auto trannie 501 is found to (have-)exist(ed), shall we agree to stipulate that NONE of the 92-found D501's had an auto-trannie in them, and that the 1/57 AMA Specs state that NO auto trannies are to be available in any of the 1957 D501 car models?
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:26 PM
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Location: Seville, OH | Neil,
The 9/91 MCG article doesn't mention at all how the TF was installed in the vert. It's tranny isn't even mentioned in the article. It only shows up in the "spec" box as a TorqueFlight. Did you get that info directly from MCG? Or somewhere else? Has that car been ID'ed in Darrel's list? Dave |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | I dunno Neil, has every one of the 92 cars been documented through Chrysler Historical? Until they have been, I'd want to reserve the possibility that a few left the factory with torqueflites and got converted to manual trans to meet the owner's preferences or other reasons.
Was there a revision later on to the AMA Spec sheets? There were either 3 or 4 for the '56 Chryslers and 3 as I recall for the '57 Chryslers. Are you sure you have them ALL for '57 Dodge.
If there is ONE THING I have learned in this hobby it is NEVER SAY NEVER when it comes to the possibility of what rolled off the end of the factory assembly lines. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Never-say-never; and, looking now at page 15 of the AMA Specs, it DOES indicate that an automatic trannie (3.18)
was available, along with optional ratios of 3.36 and 3.54.
OK; so an automatic (T/Flite, but not-so-identified) transmission was available in a D501 model.
Humble pie tastes lousy.
Dave I'm going home now, to re-read that MCG issue (know right where it is kept) and will dig-out the 1956 Speed Age
issue....I do recall that the article states that the auto trannie was retrofitted by Sonny Benson---but, my memory is
not what it used to be (apparently!)
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:44 PM
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Posts: 4654
| Another pic
 (D501 conv4.jpg)
Attachments
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D501 conv4.jpg (186KB - 356 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | You can see where the firewall was masked off, below the red, and painted in black; the firewall area should be in
white, to match the main body area, but, for some reason, the 'painter' did not want to continue applying the red
all the way down the firewall....it looks like the OEM white may be visible, below the black, down low
on the firewall.
Also looks like the hinge was painted in silver instead of cad plated, and the spring should be red---there's an item
that should have some red paint on it, along with the valve covers.
The air cleaners have been seen in black, but one 501, to date, (a sedan , found in OR) had what appeared to be OEM white paint
on them (very-aged paint with aged OEM decals still on them).
No engine number, yet?
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 7:41 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ok; going back to the 9/91 MCG; I have the issue in front of me, with a post-em that has a telephone number on
it, for Danny Byrd in the St Louis area, that I received from having called MCG about the article.
I remember calling him, and getting basically no tangible information on Sonny Benson's, or the car's current whereabouts.
Danny was the person who provided the article's information to its writer, Randy Holden.
The article says nothing about the car's OEM trannie, so, I'm going to have to say that it was Danny who confirmed the trannie
swap to me.
In this regard, I've asked Darrell Davis to try to locate this vert (all-yellow; few options; wrong top on it ["tan"---dayuum]
in his research records.
Now, for the Speed Age article, above; it appeared in the April 57 issue...nuts...BUT, another quote from its author, that
I overlooked including, previously :" After the 1956 season, ......[which ended on 11/18/56----OVERLAPPING with the
1957 season, which began on 11/11/56!!---BTW, Kiekaefer entered two 300's in that last race, and placed 1st & 3rd, at
Wilson NC---K. did NOT enter any cars in that 1st, or in any, '57 NASCAR season race....certainly not at the Biggie:
Daytona, on 2/17/57.......Kiekaefer told this writer: 'I have had a lot of pleasure in racing and met many fine people, but
I've been lucky in not having a driver scratched or hurting anybody else.
'The cars are getting so fast that I'm not sure they're safe. Perhaps it would stretch our luck too thin to race again."....
Hmmm; not a word in the article about any equipment/carburetion disputes with B. France.
So, when did K. decide not to participate in the 1957 NASCAR season?
Some time prior to the 1st race of the 1957 season, obviously, because none of K.'s cars participated in the running
OF the 57 season, which began on 11/11/56, and his drivers had been able to secure their 57-season rides in time
for the start of the 1957 racing season, on 11/11/56.
And, K.'s car's participated in the full 1956 season, winning the 1st race, held at Hickory NC on 11/13/55.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 7:59 PM
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| No engine # yet.
FYI, on 11/5/10 I asked if the D501 conv being restored will be for sale. Louie replied that it would in about 1 year. On 11/7/10 I asked him if he was restoring the original body. His reply was : " No, body was beyond repair have no part of it, it was crushed". I can forward those emails to anyone interested. I was interested in the car, but at a price based on that information. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No "Survivor" status for that vert, huh?
Still, the VIN, P/T plate, and engine will be installed on the OEM frame, and it will appear (hopefully) as it was built and
finish-painted.
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| I can't follow all of this speculation and rememberances. Were there actually "factory" D501 convertibles built and does any documentation exist to verify their authenticity? Is the one being built in California a fully documented car? I'm confused...I've seen several bogus D501's which distorts my willingness to accept a statement of authenticity. This is one area where factory documentation must accompany the car!! |
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Location: Golden, CO | This is my view, The spec sheet I have indicated a Torqueflite available and even lists seperate ratios for the automatic. It is possible none were built. Was it offered or was this sheet refering to units as built is not known to me, an item that expands on transmisson and rear end ratio combinations for a D501 and so completely different from the combinations for the D500 is not just a typo. So info was gathered on the Torqueflite combo for some purpose. It may have been any one of several possibilities but information was printed at one time and may be helpfull if one surfaces and needs further confirmation. I am in the camp that wants documentation but many times exclusive phrases like "Not available this way or that" were subject to dismissal at some point. One case in point to highlight a possibility is the 56 Adventurer prototype was equipped with a manual trans but it was decided that only autos were offered to the public. So there was a 56 Desoto Adventurer with a manual trans which is now listed as lost. With the AMA sheet Neil refers to I think that makes it very likely at least one was built. Tim in Golden
Edited by Dash One 2011-07-02 12:04 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Tim, I recited my mea culpa, above....the A.M.A. Specifications sheets do list the availability of the "automatic" trannie, in
standard 3.18, with optional ratios of 3.36 & 3.54.
None of the 92 D501's, whose IBM build cards Darrell Davis has previously located, on the Historical Society's microfilm rolls
had anything other than the manual trannie installed in them.
That leaves 10+ 501's whose IBM cards have eluded Mr. Davis' best efforts, to date.
Interestingly, if the 9/91 MCG magazine 501 vert was, indeed, OEM painted in yellow, Mr. Davis advises that NONE of his 23
found-verts were painted in any combination of "Sunshine Yellow" ("K" code)....so that this car may be one of the 10+ "missing"
cars.
Of course, the good news is that this car exists, somewhere, and that its VIN should become available, eventually, for IBM card
research.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | The 3spd manual was indeed an inferior trans. The 3spd manual D501 in our town was down for trans repair 2 maybe 3 times during the summer of 59. He traded it for a black Coronet Lancer D500 in the fall for reliability.
Edited by horace 2011-07-10 12:55 AM
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| I saw Miller's D501 today that is in the middle of restoration. I'll be posting pictures of it tomorrow. Snapped a few pictures of his other stuff, which was awesome as well. Such as his 29 actual mile 57 plymouth belvedere |
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Location: somerville mass | can we get it over with and please see a genuine d501 front back side w the d501 emblem and the bone stock radio/heater delete 3 spd stick int?
it would be nice..
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Location: Seville, OH | moparsteve - 2011-07-23 5:01 PM
can we get it over with and please see a genuine d501 front back side w the d501 emblem and the bone stock radio/heater delete 3 spd stick int?
it would be nice..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atomic_blondes/3710395878/in/set-72157... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Back in the 'day', many wonderfully exotic, rare models got 'totalled' or generally discarded or dismantled when today,
that car, in that condition, would be considered as being an 'easy' restoration candidate.
The black 501 vert that is being re-bodied, in CA, now, was abandoned for disposal, literally, after it slid off an icy
roadway and ran into a ditch, damaging its front suspension and fender-sheet metal area.
Steve, many (the great many) of the D501's that were (eventually) built, after late MAR, 57, were outfitted with sundry
convenience options, like heaters/defrosters, tinted glass, Air Foam seats, tinted plastic sunvisors, rear window defrosters (!)
power brakes, and some may well have got power windows/seat, altho I don't know of any cars that received these latter two
options.
The only thing that any/all of the 92 IBM card-discovered-cars, to date, have in common is their manual transmissions and their
manual steering (power steering was physically not able to be installed with the manual trannie, in 1957).
Darrell Davis, a former Corp VP, is the gentleman who has produced several Performance PLY/DOD coding-books,
from his hands-on IBM card research at the Historical Society.
He has located and obtained 92 (of at least 102-built) D501 IBM cards, that he has sworn to CHS that he will
not hand out to anyone.
He has graciously been willing/able to share his cards' general information with me---like, in Re: whether any
of his convertible 501's were painted (partially-) in yellow; none were, but, again, at least 10 D501 IBM cards
have eluded him, to date.
I happen to have five D501 IBM card-copies, from the 80's/90's, when you could directly order them from CHS
for $15.00 each.
As discussed elsewhere, a TorqueFlite trannie was, technically, an option, but, any putative 501 that might surface, in the future,
will have to provide its IBM card information in order to confirm the OEM installation of an automatic trannie in that car (and, that-car
would have to 'be' one of Darrell Davis' "missing" 10 IBM cards).
There is evidence to suggest that the 3 prototype 501's that appeared at Daytona Speed Weeks did not have "501" emblems on
them---probably because those emblems had not yet been produced, as of 2/57.
The manual trannie was structurally weak; in the 1958 Fury road test, by Hot Rod magazine, the testers stated
that the 58 box and/or its gearing was a tangible improvement over the 57 gearbox.
However, at the end of their testing, they stated that they would prefer power steering and the T/Flite in the
Fury that they would want to buy.
Edited by d500neil 2011-07-23 11:38 PM
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Location: somerville mass | thank you. sweet! i'm sure super fast, rare and expensive. mostly used for racing. few, if any, for sale. |
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| Are any of you familiar with a manual trans equipped '57 Dodge? Aside from the obvious pedals, block-off push button plate, etc, were the clutch cross shafts bolted or was there a welded bracket on the frame? I'm thinking the steering column would have to be changed when converting from stick to TF . Was there a different trans crossmember? Are there any other telltale signs to look for when examining a car that now has a TF, but was supposed to be a stick from the factory? How about the D501 carb #s..different ? Thanks |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The carbs never change (because there never was a T/Flite D501 known to have been built, and 92 of around 102-built
have been found, in the CHS records, by Darrell Davis, to date)..they are the 2534S (front) and 2535S (rear).
The distributor should be Autolite IBS-4005 .
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | This car is now scheduled to be auctioned off.
What a horrible job of 'restoration', on which the high-bidder is going to have to pay a 'premium', on top of his winning bid.
To reiterate; this car is all-white, with a black top and gold/black interior, with a manual transmission.
It has 1959 Dodge pushbuttons and note the generic brake pedal.
http://gaaclassiccars.com/index.php/auction-listings/28-1957-dodge-...
Edited by d500neil 2013-09-28 8:31 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | Hey Neil
Is it just my end or do you have to be a member to look at the pics of that car?
I only get the pic showing the whole car, no others?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I'll PM you the site, but I can click-on any of the small photos and get them to enlarge.
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Location: McCleary WA | d500neil - 2013-09-28 3:56 PM
This car is now scheduled to be auctioned off.
What a horrible job of 'restoration', on which the high-bidder is going to have to pay a 'premium', on top of his winning bid.
To reiterate; this car is all-white, with a black top and gold/black interior, with a manual transmission.
It has 1959 Dodge pushbuttons and note the generic brake pedal.
http://gaaclassiccars.com/index.php/auction-listings/28-1957-dodge-...
Pardon me, a newby, for jumping in here but I am trying to learn something. Are you saying this car is supposed to be white with black top, manual trans, and gold/black interior based on its VIN? Since it is advertised as a D501 and has an A/T, is it then a fake 501? I'm confused.
Also, the statement was made that a D501 did not have power steering because it had a M/T. Can you clarify why the trans rules out p/s? It seems like the two would be far enough apart to not interfere. Clutch linkage in the way? Like I said, just trying to learn this stuff. Thanks for your patience.
Sure wish I had photos of the convert I had in high school with dual quad hemi, a/t, p/s, p/b, p/w. Based on the above discussion I'm guessing it was not a D501, and may have gotten a heart transplant in the 9 years before my brief ownership. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Not based upon its VIN, but based upon its Paint/Trim data plate.
All recorded/documented D501's (92, out of 102+ built, including prototypes, by researcher Darrell Davis) have the manual trannie.
This car's IBM card has been obtained by Mr. Davis, from his Historical Society microfilm research.
The physical size of the 3-speed manual trannie obviates the installation of a power steering system.
So, the D501's can have power brakes, but with their manual transmissions comes manual steering, only.
This car has had its OEM manual trannie be replaced with a TorqueFlite automatic (complete with 1959
Dodge Pushbuttons/face plate---probably, the entire pushbutton assembly was lifted off of a 59 Dodge,
though).
Was your car a Coronet model?
It sounds like it may have been a 325 c.i. Super D500 model.
The D501's have 354 c.i. highly-modified "300B" engines.
Edited by d500neil 2013-09-29 12:01 AM
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Location: McCleary WA | d500neil - 2013-09-28 8:50 PM
The physical size of the 3-speed manual trannie obviates the installation of a power steering system.
I guess it isn't "obviate" to me - the trans is no where near the steering, is it? Or is it because of no provision for shift linkage with the p/s box? I have seen this statement before but still don't understand the relationship.
As for my convert, I only had it for less than 9 months, and was only 17 at the time. I wish I could remember more about it but that was 47 years ago. I don't recall any badge on the trunk lid or even on the fins, so I'm guessing it was a Coronet, but that loaded? I still have a lot to learn about these cars. Thanks for helping with that. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Darryl,
Whether or not one COULD stuff a PS unit in there with a manual trans, the factory made it clear
in all their lit that if you got a manual transmission, they were not going to install power steering.
That is just how it was at the time. And speaking from experience, I never saw a stick car with PS
that wasn't modified after leaving the factory.
Now, get back to flogging yourself for ever letting this incredible car get away from you !
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: McCleary WA | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-06-30 10:56 AM
I got a cold call from a guy who said he was from Yakima and had an all-white D-501
he wanted to sell.
I am spacing out on if he said it was a ragtop or not ....... but I think he said it was.
I called Neil about verifying its original build status, but never heard back from the
seller or got an answer when calling back. Neil, do you remember what I told you ?
I think he was just shopping a big buck and I wasn't ga-ga enough to "bother with".
I noticed this old post from you - my high school convert was all white, and Yakima is only 100 miles or so from me....... Any chance you have the guy's number? I keep dreaming that it is out there, waiting for me to rescue it. Yes, I flog myself daily for letting that car go, and I even had a place to store it for free. Dumb, dumb, dumb. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The power steering gearbox conflicts with the size of the manual transmission's case, is what I've always heard.
This all-white vert was sold out of the PA area.
The 'Yakima' car was/is a red/white sedan in #4 condition, that was sold to 57 Heaven, and later has now been fairly
well restored, but the article on it, in the 9/12 Hemmings Muscle Machines is full of technical, and back-story inaccuracies.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Expecting the guy to follow through with his "I'll call you back", I did not get his number (dammit !  )
He never called back.
But this car was not a convertible.
Neil intimated that this car may have come out of the woodwork in one of his posts, but
I cannot remember the followup. Neil ?
As a semi-related "almost" find like this, I ran into a guy at the Monroe swap meet that had some
dandy Forward Look performance emblems ... Fuel Injection, D-500 ..... I asked where he got
them and he said he was unsure, as he traveled around Idaho, eastern Oregon and Washington,
picking stuff like this off the cars. This was 1990 or so.
Of course, since then, knowledge of build tags and such has increased to where even bashed old
beaters with the right tag are solid gold, but back then, no one cared and the parts were plucked
and the hulks squashed to make room for the incoming Cavaliers and Citations. 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | It did come out of the 'woodwork', actually in Kennewick, WA.
The car and its engine were separated, but the car body was restorable.
As was typical on the D501's that were built (in order to make them attractive, and to increase their sales-costs), most
of them --like the white-vert, above--were heavily optioned.
The Kennewick 501 came with a rear window defroster and plastic sun visors(!), undercoating and power brakes.
It had a manual-tune radio, and had plain (1956-15") wheel covers but, otherwize, all the Accessory Groups' equipment
[except for non-pushbutton radio and no spinners].
Its interior was red/black, and in the Custom Coronet motif.
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Location: Parts Unknown | I am glad to hear this story "played out", as so many "goose chase" leads often went cold
and I was left scratching my head, wondering what ever happened ....
Don't the 501's make you wonder why they didn't just yank the drivetrains and make them
more conventionally equipped cars, as opposed to trying to dress up a brute ? Seems to this
observer that they would have been easier to move that way.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That #4 condition 'car' sold to 57 Heaven for $35K.
Dodge had already budgeted and scheduled the production of these 102+ car models....(which production number NASCAR
had previously specified, for 'stock car racing' homologation)...but, after Kiekaeffer dropped out of his NASCAR participation
for 1957, Dodge was in no hurry to build these rides.
After the 3+ prototypes were built, in JAN 57, for Daytona Speedweeks trials, Dodge waited until late MAR before beginning
to build these guys, in dribs/drabs; not in a dedicated production run, as might be assumed, over the course of three months.
Some 501's were 'awarded' to dealerships, as sales prizes/promotions, but the majority were loaded down with options, to
make them fancier and more sell-able, what with their manual steering and transmissions.
And, oh yeah: a truly rock-crusher suspension on it.
Edited by d500neil 2013-09-30 2:12 AM
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Veteran
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Location: Ocean Shores, WA | There's a red/white 57 Dodge Coronet Hemi D-501 convertible (advertised as one of six) coming up for auction November 7-9. Check www.gaaclassiccars.com. The auction is taking place in Greensboro, NC. What do you think? $140,000? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Please scroll up 14 messages.
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Location: Ocean Shores, WA | Maybe part of the issue of how many of what were produced back then is based on how the numbers were gathered. If I recall, production numbers were based on the calendar year back then and not on the model year. So, in 1957, the total number of cars manufactured would not only include the cars made from January 1, but would also include the 1958 models made in late 1957. I think this is why there is difficulty in finding consistent production numbers from that era. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Not really a car I'd want to own, but I sure would like to drive and pour myself over one (or more)
just to see such a raw beast up close and personal.
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| I had a chance to buy it a couple of years ago. The owner wanted $175K. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The numbers of D501's that were built were/are based upon the number of D501 engines that were cast/built,
in regards to NASCAR's stipulation that at least 100 examples be built, for homologation purposes, of any particular
'stock' car.
And I had a chance to buy the Belmont, at the B-J, for $235K, a few years ago.
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Location: Arizona | I had a chance to buy the Queen Mary but passed. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Looks like the Queen Mary is still for sale ....
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=49003&...
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | But, The Brooklyn Bridge is in escrow, right now.
You snooze, et cetera...
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Location: Parts Unknown | I believe that car would cover all lanes of the Brooklyn bridge ! 
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Location: Seville, OH | hemidave - 2011-06-30 3:16 PM
Another pic
So which radiator is correct? Second pic Lee Smith's 501.
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Location: Arizona | One has a heater and one doesn't. Maybe cars with heaters had different radiators?? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No; Lee couldn't find the correct radiator for his car; he later found one, but never bothered to install it.
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| Do all the large (AC) radiators have the top hose to the passenger side, while standard rads have it in the top center? |
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | On a lot of the AC cars the compressor would be in the way of a passenger side top hose I'd think. |
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Location: Seville, OH | Two other minor points, the vert doesn't have the canister oil filter, and the generator belt tension brackets are different. |
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Location: Seville, OH | It looks like Louie used the tall canister on his coupe clone (which does have an original D-501 block , 1021).
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, and #1021 was originally OEM installed in a CONVERTIBLE; fairly heavily optioned, too.
Its colors(!) and trim-options are Classified information.
But, that's a vert's engine, there.
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Location: Seville, OH | Did Louie ever sell this car? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Dunno; haven't heard anything from him in a year or so; he was 'into' vintage drag racing the last I heard.
His D501 vert re-creation project will require the equivalent tender mercies of a European master restorer.
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Location: Alaska | I know this question has been already asked by another member, But............. I am under the assumption the 57-58 Plymouth Fury's could be ordered with power steering and manual transmissions ( all three of my 57-58 Fury's were originally autos w/ P.S. that were converted to manual trans.) what was so different about the Dodge chassis (other than the D501 engine) that a manual trans. would not physically fit? Was it the column shift linkage because it sure is not the clutch linkage? I know you are saying that Chrysler would not let you order it that way but is that the only reason? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Rolland, did your converted manual-shift cars have floor-mounted shifters, and, what trannies were installed in them?
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Location: MN | 58 coupe the difference is "GOT A HEMI" block vs poly or b blocks. Were 3spd manuals in Furys able to stand up better than D501 manuals? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, yes....but, that is not the question, which is: why power steering was not available with a manual transmission.
Edited by d500neil 2013-10-18 2:25 AM
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Location: Alaska | My first 57 Fury of course had the 318 and a standard Plymouth style manual trans. w/ floor shift.(I bought this one already converted) These transmissions were very weak and I broke at least 3 of them. My second 57 and my 58 Fury both had big blocks(350,361,and later 383) and I converted both to manual 3 speeds using a Borg Warner T-85 w/ floor shift, a much stronger trans. from a 60 Plymouth. The reason I asked about column shift linkage is because none of my cars had that, being converted from an auto to floor shift. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Could this "all-or-none" equipment stipulation have been sales motivated ? .... push the buyer
to go cheap or go large ?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The manual transmission was a standard item, as was manual steering.
Power steering & (both of...) the automatic transmissions were optional equipment.
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Location: Parts Unknown | That's my point. To urge along a buyer to option up a car, they might have limited apps
so you had to option up a few things to get the one you wanted ?
As I recall (but cannot remember the source/s) the reason behind the manual trans/steering
connection was mechanical. If there was space to fit power steering, perhaps is was a bit
of a hassle to install or work on, so it was just decided to not offer them that way ?
If you had asked me this question 20 years ago, I could have cited where this was detailed
out, but the memory is slipping and this thread has me questioning where I read what. It
seems to me though, ... that it states it directly in the shop manuals for the DeSotos I have
owned, but on the other hand, I seem to recall this was across the board, not just a DeSoto
thing. When I get back to really working on the DeSoto again, I will have to reread my lit
and parts book. Maybe find it in there then ?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, the real (but very incorrectly-finished/detailed) D501 convertible was bid-up to $90,000.00; Reserve not
met, and was sent off to "the Deal Doctor" at the venue, to see if the car could be sold, off-block.
Its seller had been "asking" for $175,000.00, privately, before the auction.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The auction site, now, officially shows this car as being a no-sale, at its $90,000.00 high bid amount (apparently not
sold off-block).
Did some more research on this ride, and it might well have been intended to have been built for NASCAR's "Convertible
Division" racing.
This vert was a very early build (once the production of the 501's eventually/finally began....in late March, 1957, which was about
half way through the NASCAR 1957 Convertible (and sedan) season, which began on 11/11/56).
What is interesting about this ride's OEM equipment, is that in addition to having the Un-holy trinity in it (the un-avoidable manual
steering, together with the manual trannie, but also....manual brakes), the car was built with a non-padded front seat, and a single exterior color (white), and with a black top and gold/black interior.
All-manual, with a non-padded seat and a single-white color would be all that a race car would need to have in it.
Unlike Lee Smith's pure-drag D501 sedan, this car has a heater in it.
A heater is a desirable thing to have in a track-car, because it can be used to cool-off an overheating engine; C.K's own
specially-ordered D501 HT race car (never campaigned) came equipped with a heater in it.
On all '57 Coronets, a padded front and/or rear seat was optional equipment.
A non-padded seat is not a fun thing to have to sit upon (and this, in a convertible model).
When Dodge (which is to say: Carl Kiekaefer) decided not to sponsor any NASCAR teams, for the 57 season---which decision apparently occurred sometime in mid 1956 (...WAY before the June 6, 1957 A.M.A. "resolution" to end :"factory-sponsored racing teams"), Dodge apparently decided that it would postpone the production of the (apparently already funded, but no-longer-needed) 100+ D501 models.
NASCAR had previously decreed that at least 100 examples of any particular car model be built before it would sanction that model for its racing divisions.
The D501 was a unique car model, with its standard-equipment being unlike that of any other 1957 Dodge.
So, Dodge got around to scheduling the D501 model's production well into the 1957 m.y. (AND, well-into the 1957 NASCAR season) but, Dodge well-knew that these brutes needed some gussying-up to make them desirable purchases (and, more profitable, too).
This particular convertible received all of the '57 Accessory Groups, and dual antennae, and even the optional carpeting and undercoating.
These options, in-and-of themselves, would be unusual (expensive) features on any non-special-ordered 'economy' Coronet series vert.
But, regardless, this car would not have been much fun, to wheel-around-town 'in'.
Edited by d500neil 2013-11-15 11:14 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Just exchanged a couple e-mails with Mr. Smith, and he pointed out that his pure-drag car has a padded front seat in it.
Checked his car's IBM, and, yup, the ONLY option that its original owner, Arnie Beswick, Special-Ordered on/in it was
for a padded front seat!
[Actually, its 2-tone paint scheme--red/white--would also be an option; single-colors were standard, on all the
57 Dodges].
It also got New Car Service...but that is where the factory installed/applied all the fluids and alignments, etc., so that a
car could be immediately driven-away, once it got to its selling dealership.
Kiekaefer's pure-track race car was Special-Ordered with no padded seats in it....just like 'our' convertible, in this thread.
Edited by d500neil 2013-11-17 10:04 PM
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Location: MN | It's not all or nothing as earlier stated, I know we had a 59 Sierra D500 stick w/ ps in town back in the day |
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Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | I looked over the car before the auction. It was fair, but there was quite a bit that would need redoing, especially the interior. Whatever you pay for the 501, you're going to pay quite a bit more to make it right. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That's exactly what I said, at the outset of this thread, on this car.
And, speaking NOT of-which, famous former corporate-sponsored drag racer (The Haulin Hemi), Lee Smith advises that his
real, documented D501 race car is for sale, privately, and not for huge-money, but not cheap, either.
If interested, please PM me and I'll put you two together.
I've taken a road trip in this car, with Lee, and you do not need to have a radio in it, to be entertained by it.
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Location: Seville, OH | I never heard of a non-padded seat; how is it constructed? Are there any springs or is it a plank of plywood?
I also seem to recall that Lee had stripped another D-501 of all of it's unique parts and they were for sale at one time. Is that true? |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | d500neil - 2013-11-17 8:56 PM Just exchanged a couple e-mails with Mr. Smith, and he pointed out that his pure-drag car has a padded front seat in it. Checked his car's IBM, and, yup, the ONLY option that its original owner, Arnie Beswick, Special-Ordered on/in it was for a padded front seat! (SNIP) Kiekaefer's pure-track race car was Special-Ordered with no padded seats in it....just like 'our' convertible, in this thread. Since I own one of the '57 Chrysler 300 special ordered Kiekhaefer race cars, have the purchase order for it and another, and the build sheet for it and another, you'll have to explain this to me because my seats are standard production seats. |
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Location: Seville, OH | I think Neil is referring to Kiekaefer's D501, not a 300. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Since when is this a "300" thread? --lololol...
Yeah; I'm talking about Dodge D501's (and, coincidentally, Carl Kiekaefer's having special-ordered of one of them, which he never raced, but he did 'dyno' its engine...the dyno results have been preserved).
The standard Dodge seats have a thin layer of 'jute' material residing over the seat springs.
On Coronets the "AirFoam" padding was optional on either/both seats.
The Custom Royals (and the Royals and Custom Sierra wagons) came with the AirFoam front seat as standard equipment---my own ride has a non-padded rear seat in it....and it feels 'firm' (hard) and flat when you sit on it.
Yes, Lee's other D501 'pieces', including VIN plate & P/T plate, from an All-Moonstone-Gray colored sedan are available.
Its engine number is known, but I can't recall that he has the engine block, from that car that he parted-out, in
Detroit, in the '80s.
That car had the gold/black Custom Coronet interior, but only one Accessory Group, containing the radio,
heater, back-up lights, LT O.S. mirror and the day/night inside mirror.
Edited by d500neil 2013-11-19 6:08 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | JFG (just for grins), here's Mr. Lee Smith in his factory AWB (altered wheelbase) 65 Plymouth Satellite (Haulin Hemi II)
and the only shots he took of (what was left of....) the D501 that he parted out, in Detroit.
This is the all Moonstone-gray car, above.
My scribbles say: " D501 in Michigan (mechanics already parted out)."
Edited by d500neil 2013-11-19 11:56 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca |
And, WTH; it's late; these photos courtesy of Maker's Mark bourbon.
Here's a couple shots of Lee's D501, taken at his estate in Moline IL, a few years ago.
The first one shows Illinois condensation on the windows, except for the rolled-down driver's
glass.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca |
Alright; this is ridiculous; nobody wants to see any photos of some old D501 race car....
and Lee, in action.
Remember, according to Lancer Mike, the D501 was not a car model....right.
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Location: Seville, OH | Yeah, that Detroit one with the center stripe is a real wreck. I'd scrap it too. Man, that would be a real find today.
Edited by Swept57 2013-11-20 1:45 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Um .... wouldn't the "Coronet" badge be replaced with "D-501" badge if it were a different model ? |
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Location: DFW, TX | I thought the D 501 option package was available throughout the Dodge model lineup like the D 500. Is that not the case? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Brent, it HAS a D501 badge on it, and it has a unique model coding for it, too.
The D501's extensive, and extremely-heavy-duty mechanical package (with no other mechanical options available on it other than power brakes) was only built into Coronet.....2-door sedans and convertibles (and very-few, special-ordered hardtops).....bodies.
Only 'trim/feature' items were optional on them, and those features were installed by the factory on every car that wasn't specially-ordered for racing purposes, so as to increase their attractiveness, and profitability, in the public-consumer venue.
And, there were only about 102 of them that were ever built, for NASCAR homologation purposes, for its being a purpose-built race car model.
If a PLY "Belvedere", et al, are 'models'.....then the 102-ish D501 is the KING(Kong) of the FWDLK car models.
Here's the lead-page of Dodge's A.M.A. Specifications Sheets, of 1/57, for NASCAR homologation purposes,
wherein all of the D501's standard equipment is listed, in comparison to the "D500" models' equipment.
Edited by d500neil 2013-11-20 6:22 PM
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| d500neil - 2013-11-20 12:59 AM
Alright; this is ridiculous; nobody wants to see any photos of some old D501 race car....
and Lee, in action.
Remember, according to Lancer Mike, the D501 was not a car model....right.
This then begs the question: What ares the model codes of "normal" Coronet 2dr sedans and convertibles, and what are the model codes of "D501" Coronet 2dr sedans and convertibles? |
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Location: MN | More D501 pics less 65 Coro |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Scored eight 60's car mags for 10-bux(!) recently, altho none appeared to feature MoPars.
But, reading and research is fun.
The first mag, 9/62 Car Life, produced this OhWow letter.
According to the Ed., seven years later, "nobody" knew or recalled anything about the 1957 D501 car
model, or stillborn racing effort.
Does anyone have access to the Pittsburg PA phone book, to see how many "Donners" may still live there?
Somebody might remember the car, which could still exist.
It's interesting that Mr. Donner knew so little about his car's (probably a sedan) unique mechanical features.
(I should check the Nov and Dec '62 Car Lifes to see if anyone responded to this letter; a couple of the published letters in
this issue referenced articles that were published in the Jul issue).
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-23 7:42 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | kmccabe56 - 2013-11-21 5:59 AM
This then begs the question: What ares the model codes of "normal" Coronet 2dr sedans and convertibles, and what are the model codes of "D501" Coronet 2dr sedans and convertibles?
This is a good thread.
Kevin asked and I will answer: the BDY code on the firewall tag for a "normal" Coronet 2dr sedan with a standard 325 V-8 engine is 2142.
The BDY code on the firewall tag for a "D501" Coronet 2dr sedan is 2442.
The BDY code on the firewall tag for a "normal" Coronet convertible with a standard 325 V-8 engine is 2143.
The BDY code on the firewall tag for a "D501" Coronet convertible is 2443.
Neil's example of the A.M.A. bulletin is interesting. If this is part of the body of evidence, then a Sierra D500 is a different model from a Sierra and a Custom Royal D500 is a different model from a Custom Royal? They each have distinct BDY codes on the firewall tag. To go a step further, a standard V-8 Coronet is a different model from a Coronet D500 since they have distinct BDY codes?
There really is no "model" code on the firewall tags, just the BDY code. However, all Coronets share a common numeral 4 in the third position of the four-digit sequence. All Royals share a common numeral 7 in the third position; and all Custom Royals share a common numeral 8 in the third position. Using this information, one might consider the third position as the "model" code. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | But you don't know the coding for the hardtop D501 model (and, it is not what you might guess...)
The D501's have unique BDY codes, shared by no other Dodge models; the BDY codes identify the D501 models.
Dodge's Model codes ARE the BDY codes.
The D501's have unique mechanical features that are not shared with the other Dodge models, and were not
optionally available on any of the other models, either.
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-24 8:30 PM
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Neil, did they build any hardtop 501s that you know of?
Greg |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Oh, I see you already stated they built "very few special-ordered hard tops".
Greg |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Dodge actually built quite a few hardtop D501's...forget the number, off the top o' me head, right now, but there were quite a few of them,
including Kiekaefer's special ordered HT.
Most of the 10 cars that Mr. Davis didn't find are probably HT models...but, at least one of the 10 should be a convertible (that's the MoPar
Collector's Guide car, from 9/91).
If I were there w/you and Ronbo, this summer, we could have a good conversation regarding this matter, over some liquid libations....
...and discuss the Mole, who had access to to CHS records, back in the '90's.
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Location: The Mile High City | So, Captain Kiekenheimer's D501 two-door hardtop is coded BDY 2146, which might otherwise be decoded Dodge, standard 325, Coronet, two-door hardtop. Might it be possible he ordered that very car and switched the engine to a crate 354 and made all the other necessary modifications? Is it possible that car was mis-stamped?
The number of hardtop D501s beith seven - ish. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | For sure, libations in forward look glasses, right?! I'll pack one with your name on it.
Seems to me I heard about that Mole. A rather devious character I've been told; been escorted out of a number of different places. Got photos to prove it!
Yeah, your ears will be burning.
Greg |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Mike,
I would interpret 2146 as:
Dodge 122" WB
Standard chassis/engine for lower price models
D-66. Coronet 8 cyl
2dr ht. Special club coupe
Greg
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike; WRONG; but thanks for playing SWAG.
2146 is only a part of the D501 story.
Went thru my D501 file, and of the 92 501's that are accounted, 8 are HT's, 23 are verts and 61 are sedans.
And, BTW, Mr. Davis found one 1957 Dodge Coronet 2-dr sedan, which was built on 8/23/57, whose
IBM card indicates that it was a (real-) Super D500, but that it had a FUEL INJECTION engine installed in it....
Engine number was L-360-16xx and its VIN was 35301xxx.
So, IRONICALLY, there is a myth about some 'early' 1958 Dodges being built with the (1957-) Hemi engines in them,
when, in actuality, there was at least one 1957 production-car (having both a current VIN and a valid engine-number)
which had a 1958 (Fuelie-) engine in it.
It probably served as a Pilot (test) car.
Its engine coding is interesting, too, on the IBM card, because the 57 version is not set up for an Extra-Super-D500
model, so the factory kinda tap-danced around the engine coding a little bit, but the coding is consistent with the 58 engine
codings and the car's engine is a 58 D500 361 c.i. Wedge/B-block.
Its disposition and current whereabouts (you may be shaving with it, today) are unknown, and, it probably was sold
in-house to Engineering Dept/Proving Grounds, or to a lucky Honcho...but there you are.
Of the 23 found-verts, 2 are all-blue with blue tops, and none of them had a green top.
Precisely half of the 92 found cars are single color.
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-25 2:20 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | No wagons ? 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Nope; the D501's were a specific car model, based upon the Coronet body.
No automatics, either, as previously discussed, altho it is possible (but highly improbable) that one or more of the missing/unaccounted-for IBM's may be for a T/Flite equipped car.
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-25 2:18 PM
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Neil, thanks for those details. Interesting stuff.
Greg |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Flattery will get you nowhere (or not)....
This car confirms (y)our theory about the engine coding on the Fuelies, since one has now been found.
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Location: Ontario, Canada | I obtained a pair of NOS 1935956/7 T-bars a while ago and installed them in my Regal, a non sway bar car. I am very disappointed with the ride. I was expecting a significantly stiffer front end. That didn't happen. A little stiffer but that is all!
I think I mentioned this before but didn't elaborate on the ride. I may have forwarded photos of them to you.
Greg
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Location: Ontario, Canada | OK, I might now understand what your email was about. The engine in that pic with the post-it note was my L360 SP engine. It was the one I found with the dual point distributor in it------- remember? I thought I had found an FI car!!
I still have that engine but I had to trade the distributor to get the correct 58 AFB for the Regal.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Do you two need a little "alone" time ?
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Flattery??? It wasn't flattery. I was just being civil and thanking you for great info.
Greg |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I think he meant "flatulence". 
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Alone time?? Hell no! I did that once and am still wearing the scars!
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Location: Parts Unknown | Doctor DeSoto - 2014-04-26 10:25 PM
I think he meant "flatulence".
=================================================
Wait till you get some flatulence time. You'll be scarred for life !
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Location: Montreal, Canada | I see that these pics I found on the Getty Archives website have not been already posted here. It really is a shame that Neil is gone, as he would have had a blast looking at these, I think.
Getty's description says that the photos are from a May 10, 1957 photoshoot for a test drive of a dual carb 1957 Dodge. Getty has the Motor Trend archives, so it probably was a Motor Trend test drive.
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| WOW, great pics, thanks for posting. That would be my favorite FWLK! |
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Location: The Mile High City | Great stuff! I guess due to the larger wheels, it did not get the standard wheel covers. As to why it did not have the ultra-standard hub caps, I don't know. |
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Location: Seville, OH | The wheels were 56 Imperial 15" so dog dishes and standard Dodge full covers wouldn't fit. I dont recognize those hubcaps, but Neil always mantained that my 501 would have come with 56 Dodge full-size spinner caps. This is also the second period picture of a 501 that has straight pipe exhaust. The exhaust deflector tips apparently were not standard on the 501. Lee Smith added them to his 501 and he also welded tabs to his wheels so he could run dog dishes. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | soiouz - 2015-11-29 10:37 AM
I see that these pics I found on the Getty Archives website have not been already posted here. It really is a shame that Neil is gone, as he would have had a blast looking at these, I think.
Getty's description says that the photos are from a May 10, 1957 photoshoot for a test drive of a dual carb 1957 Dodge. Getty has the Motor Trend archives, so it probably was a Motor Trend test drive.
I, too, would have loved to hear Neil's comments on this car!!
Really neat to see pics of a new car taken a few months after it's build date! BUT, I have to question some stuff;
The motor mounts appear to be LATE 57 style.
The ballast resistor appears to be 58 style.
The spark plug trough screws are early not late production.
I have never seen an original battery hold-down secured with hex nuts instead of wing nuts.
I would be willing to bet that Neil had these photos in his library years before "Getty" ever procured them!
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Location: North Australia | Very nice pictures. This car would have gotten old Neil sitting upright for sure!
It must have been a bear to drive with manual brakes. (Would have come with the Imperial 12 inch brakes I suppose, but all Imperials would have power assist?)
The hub caps look like they have an emblem stamped into them? Are they Dodge caps? They look good on this car.
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | Fuel line from pump to carbs seems pretty nicely bent up and routed to me. Wasn't it the consensious that these were pretty hastily routed??? |
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Location: Seville, OH | I'm not seeing any emblems on those caps. They almost look like aftermarket smoothies.
This car clearly is not fresh off the assembly line as evidenced by the grime on the engine. As a magazine test car it was probably tinkered with quite a bit by the time these photos were taken. I don't think Neil was aware of these. |
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| Those hubcaps look like 1949 Plymouth ,those would be 15 inch. |
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| 1949 Plymouth with full hubcaps
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Location: Seville, OH | Yeah, that could be them! I doubt that it left the factory with those caps, but who knows on such a limited special-assembled model. I think the yellow convertible that was featured in the MCG article had the 56 Dodge spinner caps. I need to dig up my copy of that to verify. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | LD3 Greg - 2015-11-29 10:52 PM
....
The motor mounts appear to be LATE 57 style.
The ballast resistor appears to be 58 style.
The spark plug trough screws are early not late production.
I have never seen an original battery hold-down secured with hex nuts instead of wing nuts.
Are you sure about those motor mounts? My '57 Windsor has the same mounts and is more early than late (2300 serial number). |
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Location: Seville, OH | I wasn't aware there were two styles. Can someone post pics? |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Poor pic but this is the earlier style with the mount in the centre of the rubber. The later ones are off centre.
I have a box of salvaged mounts. Some time I'm in that shop I will get better pics.
Greg
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Location: Seville, OH | Thanks! Never noticed that. I need to check mine. Any idea when the changeover occurred. If the May 10 photo shoot is accurate, would the offset ones have been available? As a test car it's not unlikely that the motor could have been pulled. Probably went through a few of those spindly transmissions too. |
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Location: Branson, MO | Re: '57 Convertible pics,
Looks to me like the wheel covers are more of a trim ring and baby moon combo. Not dished deep enough like the stock '49 Plymouth.
Just the way I see it.
Speaking of '57 Dodges, when we were driving in my Dad's '56 DeSoto Fireflite, in the upper part of the lower penninsula of Michigan mid summer prior to the introduction of the '57 models, a caravan of "tried to be disguised" '57 Dodges past us by. That was my first look at what was to come later in the year from Chrysler Corporation. I must say, they sure looked good even with the sticker stuff on 'em. At first we didn't recognize what they were but the "chase vehicle" was a '56 Dodge which pretty much let us us know what they were. They probably had manufacturer license plates but I can't recall for sure.
"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto"
Edited by Viper Guy 2015-12-01 10:00 PM
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Location: Seville, OH | The Imperial wheels the D-501 used didn't have the nubs for installing dog dishes so not sure how the center moons would attach.
Cool story on the pre-production Dodges! I once saw a Corvette in the Detroit area that was all masqueraded. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2015-12-01 3:39 PM
Poor pic but this is the earlier style with the mount in the centre of the rubber. The later ones are off centre.
I have a box of salvaged mounts. Some time I'm in that shop I will get better pics.
Greg
The early ones on the left, later in the middle and the latest on the right. I don't know when the changeover times took place.
Greg
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Location: Seville, OH | Thanks Greg, I'll see what mine are, my 501 was built on 4/30, and my base Coronet was built on 7/12, but no guarantee that either has original mounts. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | BTY, guys, this is about 25% of the box of salvaged rubber/steel mount stuff. Anyone want it before it goes to scrap?!
Greg |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Yes. PM sent |
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| I asked Charlie Strang about the type of wheel covers that were on Carl Kiekhaefer's D501 Coronet 2-door Lancer when it was delivered in March 1957. Charlie was not able to recall the type of wheel cover used, but the IBM punch card for Carl's D501 clearly indicates the installation of Code 402 wheel covers. In discussing Carl's D501, Neil said that it came from the factory with the 1956 Dodge, 15" spinner wheel covers. Not having access to the sales order codes for 1957 Dodges, I take it that is what code 402 indicates? |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Code 402 is "wheel covers", which I would interpret as standard wheel covers. Code 403 is " deluxe wheel covers" which would be spinners.
Greg |
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Location: Seville, OH | My 501 punch-card shows 403 for wheel-covers and the cover letter from CHS indicates "Deluxe" for 403. Neil has maintained that the 501's with wheel-covers used 1956 Dodge covers which would make sense.
BTW, did Carl's 501 have engine 1001?
Edited by Swept57 2015-12-08 1:43 PM
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Regular
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| Yes, Carl's 501 had engine number KD501-1001, which was promptly removed and replaced with in-house engine #H22. Carl specified that his 501 be built with a convertible frame and minus all sound deadener and seam sealer. The car was a customer driveaway, but all of the factory paperwork, including the invoice, was made out to Kiekhaefer Corporation, which was treated as a de facto dealership with its own dealer number. |
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Location: Seville, OH | Was it stamped "KD501?" Mine and others I have seen (1005, 1021, 1025, 1038, 1080) are stamped "D501," but Neil and others thought some did have the "KD501" stamp. My IBM card also does not include the "K" in the engine number either. |
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| The IBM punch card reads KD501 1001. The original engine was probably discarded or sold off several decades ago. The current engine would be stamped H22, if anyone ever runs across the car. Its last known location was Waukegan, Illinois in the early 1960s. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Swept57 - 2015-12-08 1:42 PM
My 501 punch-card shows 403 for wheel-covers and the cover letter from CHS indicates "Deluxe" for 403. Neil has maintained that the 501's with wheel-covers used 1956 Dodge covers which would make sense
Here is how this appears. Whoever ordered David's car paid for spinners but CK only paid for standard wheel covers but, instead, got spinners N/C. Who knows what REALLY happened!
Greg
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Location: MN | Why do people refer to D500Neil past tense? |
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| Neil passed away on September 18.  |
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Location: Seville, OH | Swept57 - 2015-11-30 5:33 PM
Yeah, that could be them! I doubt that it left the factory with those caps, but who knows on such a limited special-assembled model. I think the yellow convertible that was featured in the MCG article had the 56 Dodge spinner caps. I need to dig up my copy of that to verify.
Found the article. I believe these are 56 spinners!
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Location: Ontario, Canada | While I'm not a physical player in this 501 thread, I have a couple photos that Neil sent to me many years ago. I thought others would have posted them!!!
3 observations:
There is no 501 emblem on the trunk.
Note the hood scoop.
Note the possibility of a hood to upper bumper safety latch or strap.
Greg
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Location: Seville, OH | No exhaust deflector tips either. |
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Location: DFW, TX | Swept57 - 2015-12-18 10:01 AM
Found the article. I believe these are 56 spinners!
I believe they are, too. But that looks like a photo taken well after 1957. The license plate is modern, it has thin whitewall tires, and I've never seen that rocker trim on a '57 Dodge. It looks like the trim found on '59 Chryslers and Desotos.
I'm not trying to pick the car apart; I'm just saying those wheel covers may not have been OEM. It does make sense they would use the '55-56 15" wheel covers though. |
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Location: Seville, OH | That photo was taken from a 1991 MoPar Collector's Guide article on a D-501 convertible located in Texas and supposedly owned by ex-Chrysler exec "Sonny Bensen." When the article came out, Neil tried to find more info on the owner and car but reached a dead-end as the owner was not involved at all with the article. To my knowledge, that particular 501 has not surfaced again since 1991. But you are correct, by 1991, many things could have been changed. The rocker moulding could have been added to cover rust typical of these cars. |
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| Carl Kiekhaefer's D501, like his 1956 Dodge race cars, was sold directly to Kiekhaefer Corporation under dealer number 59999. A review of an email exchange from Neil last year brought up an important distinction about Kiekhaefer Corporation's dealership status. Neil told me that the dealership (K. Corp.) was not credited with any of the sales. Neil went on to state that "according to Corp researcher Darrell Davis, he can not identify K. 's cars' Dealer Codes for '59998' which is some in-house Department, or venue" for selling the cars directly to Kiekhaefer Corporation. 59998 was the dealer code used for virtually all of the 1957 Dodges that Carl purchased. 9981 was the dealer code that Chrysler Division issued for the 300B race cars sold to/assigned to Kiekhaefer Corporation. The 300Bs were described on the invoices as engineering cars sold "as is". While Kiekhaefer Corporation was being treated as a de facto dealership on the sales invoices, it did not receive its own dealer number as I had thought. Interestingly, the special order box on many of the sales invoices had a number typed in it.
Charlie Strang was not able to recall which type of wheel cover Carl's D501 came through with in March 1957, but I would say that code 402 indicated the standard, 15" stainless wheel cover and code 403 the 15" spinner version. I'm sure Carl disposed of the covers as quickly as possible because the car was supposed to receive modified versions of Charlie Strang's NASCAR spindles and axle shafts, which were meant for use with the Kiekhaefer racing rims. No need for wheel covers with racing equipment. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Xman,
Any idea what dealer code 89041 was for ? It was some in-house corporate
use, but I do not know exactly what.
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| Doc,
I just went through some of my Forward Look era paperwork, and the closest dealer code that I could find to 89041 was 80021. Dealer code 80021 was used by Dodge Division when it sold a 1958 Custom Royal Regal Lancer to "E C Kiekhaefer".
ECK D501 update: The Dodge Division invoice for Carl's D501 originally had a dealer code of 59999 printed in the box, but someone later X'ed it out and typed in 59998. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Interesting. What code number was Dodge Division. DeSoto was "4". Was Dodge designated with a "2" ???
That might explain the 4 on mine and 2 on ECK's Regal Lancer ???
So, do we have any clues as to what the second digit designated ???
If this is of any use, my DeSoto is shown as delivered to 89041. It was wrecked and repaired
for a lot of rust damage in 1960 and sold to the first real owner I can trace at this time. He kept
the car until 1983, the 2nd owner had it till 95, and I have had it since.
That early period is a real mystery, but I suspect if we could figure out what 89041 meant, it might
explain the gap.
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| Doc,
Thanks for the guidance. I will look into it as I have access to a copy of the IBM punch card and the Dodge Division invoice for ECK's Custom Royal Regal Lancer. I am going to run your questions past a former Chrysler Division chief engineer. Stay tuned! |
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Location: Sept. 1958 | Xman, what engine was in his Regal Lancer? |
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| As per the original Dodge Division invoice, Carl Kiekhaefer's 1958 Regal Lancer was factory-equipped with an M Series, Super D-500 V8. In other words, his car received a "prototype" 383 Wedge with dual four-barrel carbs. The engine number box is blank on the IBM punch card, thus confirming the engine's prototype status. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I just remembered another detail on that "89041" code ....
For years, I accepted the CHS explanation that this goofy number must have been
the result of a typo. Then a member of this site popped up with his Grandfather's
1961 Chrysler test mule ... a short wheelbase Chrysler built as a 300 to check the
viability of the Sport 300, introduced in 1962.
I guess Grandpa was tied in with this program, and was retiring, making some
gesture that he really liked the car. Someone pulled some strings and he was given
the car as a retirement gift.
The car was documented since Day One and came with paperwork showing an
"890XX" (number very close to mine) as the dealer code.
This reawakened the idea that my own dealer code was perhaps NOT a typo, and
rather some indication of internal, corporate use (or similar).
Not sure if that intel is of any value, but I thought I'd toss it out there for full disclosure.
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| Hey Doc, My car has a 80044 dealer code. Your code may be similar. Mine is confirmed to be an internal number for the Chrysler brand. It's assumed the PR department. My car was built for a Chrysler brand racing program in 1958 and was provided straight to the driver, so the dealer code was simply used to "bill" the car to another department. This is how a few of the ex-Chrysler employees explained it to me. Everything needed to show who was charged for the car... and mine showed that Manufacturing "billed" the car to the PR department. I'm not familiar enough with other numbers to know if all 8XXXX number are internal number, or if they are 80XXX numbers. To add to the confussion, they changed these codes in late 1957 or early 1958. My specific code didn't show in the company code directory, but it was right in the mix of factory assigned codes for Chrysler's Michigan offices. Don't know if it shines much light, but thought it may clarify a little. Finding an internal company directory for the exact timeframe the car was built would answer what your code is. Josh |
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| greg do you have any wedge motormounts 58-59 for dodge??? JAN |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Not sure, Jan. I'll email you some pics.
Greg |
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| My source sent me an email saying "I can’t help - this is a phase of our relationship with Carl K. that I didn’t get involved in." The Dodge Division invoice and the IBM punch card did not isolate any of the digits in the dealer code for Carl's Regal Lancer. However, the dealer code for one of Carl's 1960 300Fs was listed as 81201 on the IBM punch card. The F was built in February 1960 and "shipped" to the Chrysler Engineering Division. Chrysler Engineering held the car until July 1960 and then the F was sold to Carl Kiekhaefer. It is unknown why Chrysler Engineering had the F for five months before selling it as a used car to Carl Kiekhaefer. |
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Location: Seville, OH | Swept57 - 2015-12-18 11:01 AM
Swept57 - 2015-11-30 5:33 PM
Yeah, that could be them! I doubt that it left the factory with those caps, but who knows on such a limited special-assembled model. I think the yellow convertible that was featured in the MCG article had the 56 Dodge spinner caps. I need to dig up my copy of that to verify.
Found the article. I believe these are 56 spinners!
For completeness, here are the other two pictures from the 1991 MCG article. It is hard to tell from the magazine image (and impossible from the scan), but this one does not appear to have exhaust deflectors either. Also, as has been pointed out many times on this forum, although it is commonly stated that the 501 engine is basically a 300-B engine, in fact, it shares little with the 300-B engine.
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Further to the topic of motor mounts.
Here are two photos Neil sent me to show the 4 bolt exhaust flanges. I zoomed onto the UNIQUE motor mount ears welded to the x-member. These are DIFFERENT from the regular ones we see on 57-59 Dodge, Plymouth and probably Firesweeps. These were specific for 354 engines, factory mounted on these frames. Restoring CDN, 1958 Custom Royals where 354 engines were standard, I had seen these "ears" many times before.
Next two photos should show what I call "regular" ears. A Dodge and a 58 Ply frame.
Next photo should show my CDN, 1958 CR 4 Dr. sedan with it's 354.
Hope I load these photos in the proper sequence!!
Greg
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Location: Ontario, Canada | BTW, nicely optioned 501 in the photos Neil sent. Not sure if it was righteous 501 or not! Can't remember!!!
Greg |
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Location: Seville, OH | IIRC, those 501 pictures of the engine compartment are of the Red 501 that was featured in Hemmings. I think it is also the one that passed through 57 Heaven. Now I have to look at my motor mount brackets. There was some discussion about whether they were the same as the poly ones a long time ago but nothing was resolved, until now! Thanks Greg!
BTW, all 501s are righteous! |
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| hello are you selling trunk badge d-501? i need that one for my car email me epsivak@aol.com thanks |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | Someone told me that the D501 used the 1821345 truck & marine connecting rods. Is there any truth to that? I believe the 354 poly used the standard 1324222 car versions, but I haven't checked my motors to find out. Looking at them, I'm not sure what the difference is between them. Maybe the marine/truck ones are slightly heavier? |
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2020-04-26 12:20 PM
Someone told me that the D501 used the 1821345 truck & marine connecting rods. Is there any truth to that?
Nathan: I wish you luck trying to figure that one out
There are a couple of problems:
1. *IF* the D501 program is similar to the D500-1 (race) program, many of the engine part numbers, while listed for awhile to satisfy NASCAR and/or NHRA requirements, they never made it into the mainstream parts books like the 55-58 Mopar Parts catalogue. Gone. Evaporated.
2. As we know, the part number for an engine part, like the rods, is not the same as the number that is cast into the web of the rod. To quote from the 55-58 Mopar Parts catalogue:
"9-31-0 CONNECTING ROD Note: Connecting Rod includes Bearing Cap, Bolt, Nut, Lockwasher and Bushing but does not include Bearing". So more than just the rod. Only things like intake manifolds with no add-ons seem to carry their casting number as the PN (but even that isn't all the time)
For example the 354 Poly 1324 222 rod number you suggest might be the casting number but the catalogue says the rod assembly for 1955-56 Chrysler V8s was 1323 338. The fact that the PN starts with "13" implies that it started as a 1953 part number. Since the 1951 331 had a stroke of 3 5/8" as did the 1956 354, it is conceivable that the normal Chrysler V8s (including the 55 and 56 300s) all used the same rod over those years.
Not surprising, the 57-58 Dodge truck V8 rod PN was 1630 396 which is the same as all the 56 Dodge V8s including the non-race D500s.
I am guess that you will have to find a Chrysler Marine or Industrial engine parts book to answer your question and even then......
Edited by 56D500boy 2020-04-26 4:54 PM
 (EarlyChryslerHemiAnd57and58DodgeTruckRodPNcrossOvers.jpg)
 (56DodgeAndChryslerV8RodPNs.jpg)
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EarlyChryslerHemiAnd57and58DodgeTruckRodPNcrossOvers.jpg (244KB - 339 downloads)
56DodgeAndChryslerV8RodPNs.jpg (165KB - 341 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | I just purchased an NOS D501 emblem. I guess I need to find a car to put it on now. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Finland | Good luck with that Nathan...though one should never say never.. |
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| 22mafeja - 2020-12-16 2:55 AM
Good luck with that Nathan...though one should never say never..
If he outlives me, mine would be available lol |
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Location: So. Cal | I better not outlive you! |
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Location: Seville, OH | Mike McCandless - 2020-12-16 8:13 AM
22mafeja - 2020-12-16 2:55 AM
Good luck with that Nathan...though one should never say never..
If he outlives me, mine would be available lol
Yours doesn't need an emblem! |
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