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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Hi there, does anyone know what the original color of the engine is for the 1958 Plymouth with a Dual Fury V-800 engine. (2x4 barrels carbs with Oval Air Cleaners)
Is it all silver with a black oil sump, Gold twin air filters with gold Rocker Covers and Black Alternator. having a hard time trying to find a photo. Cheers
Regards
Roberto |
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Is it like this
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Location: Colo Spgs | Roberto
Why not ask this question to a group the only eats - sleeps and speak of A-318's ... 318poly@yahoogroups.com and http://www.59plymouth.net/59forum/ .
I am sure one of them has a un-cloned or un-altered or original engine photo.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Location: Williams California | roblun - 2013-10-29 5:19 AM
Is it like this
YES! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That's interesting!
The 1957 V800 Plymouth engine was all-silver, IIRC (?)
Is that shade of gold correct, above?
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Location: Williams California | Both '57 and '58 had silver engines and gold VC's and air cleaners. This gold is a bit lighter than the original shade, though. |
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Thanks again BIG M, just trying to get the
Right colors for my rebuild 318 at the end of
November. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Were the shade(s) of gold the same in both years?
Understand, that John is talking about the 1957-1958 318 c.i. dual-carb Poly-head engines (which were known
as the "V800" engine, in 1957) and not the 1958 dual-carb 350 c.i. Wedge-head engines (which engines were
completely painted in silver-only, but their air cleaners were painted in Corporate-Gold).
What name(s) did Plymouth have for the 1958 Poly, and the 1958 Wedge, dual-four engines?
Edited by d500neil 2013-10-30 4:04 PM
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Location: Williams California | Neil,
The '58 350 Golden Commando had its engine painted 'Turbine Bronze', almost a copper color, rather than the poly's silver. The poly engine was called the Dual Fury V-800 as it was in '57.
---John |
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | big m - 2013-10-30 9:01 AM
Both '57 and '58 had silver engines and gold VC's and air cleaners. This gold is a bit lighter than the original shade, though.
So that Gold color would it be like this
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Hi everyone, just having a few problems trying to get people to change the color of my
rocker covers to gold, does anyone know were to find a set or know here in Australia
that would do it, would the rocker covers have to be powder coated to Gold, some places
here in Perth will not do the job because its not worth it because its to much of a small job to do
Cheers
Regards
Roberto |
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Location: Alaska | If you are familiar with the Eastwood company, they sell a DIY powder coating kit. They specialize in all sorts of restoration tools and products. |
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Posts: 3033
Location: N.W. Fla. | A buddy reported slightly higher engine temp after powder coating the valve covers on his hemi. Guess it reduces shedding of heat. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | You don't need to powder coat, paint is fine. But yes the chrome needs to be removed first, any dents repaired, primed and then painted.
The gold shade seems to vary a little between cars.
Here is what mine looks like. Mine is a 57 of course, so the air cleaners are a different shape, but the colors are the same for 58/318.
Glenn.
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Beautiful engine bay photos Glenn. Do I see an under hood light in that pic?
Greg |
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | That is a Mopar Underhood light accessory Greg. Mercury switched.
Glenn. |
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Location: Norway | Not the best pictures but here is a unrestored '57 Fury with the factory decals still in place on the original paint air cleaners.
I can probably get better pictures of the engine if needed. Like mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems the gold varied a little during the production.
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Hi everyone, thanks for the help, I'm going to take Glenn's and Micks advice and have them painted,
I'll keep my chrome rocker covers as spares. I just purchased a set on eBay already primed
and ready to go all they need is painting. I have the original 58 Plymouth gold air filters covers
to match the paint.... Cheers
Hopefully by the end of Jan I'll post some photos
Regards
Roberto |
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | These are the Rockers I purchased on eBay, just need to be rubbed back and painted gold like my
Air filters covers
Edited by roblun 2013-12-25 12:17 AM
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Roberto.
I don't mean to bum out your Christmas but those do not look correct for a 57 or 58 Plymouth. The wire harness clips and spark plug lead separators make me think they might be off something a bit later. Of course if you are not too concerned with originality then they will still work as they are, or you could have those bits removed.
Good luck.
Glenn. |
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Hi Glen, is it that Clip in the center of the right rocker that needs to be removed? I asked the guy on eBay and he said it was from that year!
I have my originals but they are Chromed and I didn't want to Acid bath them. These are primed and ready to be painted. I'll see when I get
them, Did the originals have no spark lead separator or are they just in a different position to these...Cheers
Makes me wonder if my Chrome rockers are original!
Regards
Roberto |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Hi Roberto.
A personal hate of mine is people who say they know something or other and they are wrong/giving out wrong information.
Now I know for a fact that the rocker covers you have are not correct for 1957 Fury-all the extra clips and brackets attached to them are incorrect. And they have 2 mounting bolts instead of 3 but I know that changed in 58.
I can also say that they are not correct for a 58 Fury with the 350 engine (there are 5 of them around where I live...), but the truth is I have never seen a 58 Fury in the flesh with the 318 option. Well maybe at Carlisle 10 years ago..
So I am 99% sure that 58 Fury with 318 would not have those cable clips and spark plug separator brackets but since I have not seen one in the flesh I think you would be better off contacting someone who has a 318/58 Fury. 1% not sure is not good enough for me.
Glenn.
roblun - 2013-12-26 4:21 PM
Hi Glen, is it that Clip in the center of the right rocker that needs to be removed? I asked the guy on eBay and he said it was from that year!
I have my originals but they are Chromed and I didn't want to Acid bath them. These are primed and ready to be painted. I'll see when I get
them, Did the originals have no spark lead separator or are they just in a different position to these...Cheers
Makes me wonder if my Chrome rockers are original!
Regards
Roberto |
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | 1958 Poly Valve covers are 3 hole each and the spark plug wire separators are separate from the covers. B-blocks covers are a totally different animal. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1047
Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | Yes I know the 350 valve covers are totally different.
But are you sure that the 58 poly valve covers had 3 mounting holes? I was always lead to believe that they only had 2 in 58? As I say I have not seen one lately though.
Glenn.
christine-lover - 2013-12-27 10:23 AM
1958 Poly Valve covers are 3 hole each and the spark plug wire separators are separate from the covers. B-blocks covers are a totally different animal. |
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| 1959 Went to the 2 holes on the valve cover 1958 and 1957 had 3 holes. |
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | I have one more question can I still use theses rocker covers I purchased, even though they have 2 holes
instead of 3 holes, will there be a problem?
Cheers |
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Expert
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Location: Connecticut | Yes, three holes in '58 and separate spark plug wire separators, as Matt said.
If you are interested in making it look right, I would shop around for the correct covers, which are common. Have you tried Big M ?
Ron |
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Hi Ron, I have purchased those valve covers already, but can I
Still use them, that's what I'm trying to find out or do I have to
Have the 3 bolted ones... Cheers |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | You should still be able to use them as the spacing will be the same
As its the later ones that are 2 bolt, I think mopar decided that the centre hole was not important and deleted it
Anything to save a buck 
Only thing is, because your going for an orriginal look, to the highly educated in poly engines, it will be wrong, to every other person on the planet, they will not know or care
Most will not know what sort of an engine it is anyway, those that have seen my car for the first time always think its a big block
In a car show, I will probably let them keep thinking that if they are annoying
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Thanks Mick, Ive just sent you a PM...Cheers |
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Veteran
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Good news, the valve covers haven't been
Posted yet, and the guy is going to see if he
Has a 3 bolt valve cover for my 318 at his warehouse
After New Year, if not he will cancel the transaction.
I'm hoping that he has one, cheers everyone for
Your inputs, really appreciate it
Happy New Year
Roberto |
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Expert
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Location: Colo Spgs | Roberto
Please ask for The Spark Plug Looms if you end up with The Tree Hole Design.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Veteran
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Thanks Rodger & Gabby for your PM and helpful hints
Happy New Year |
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Veteran
Posts: 201
Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Just an update, I have gone to see my
Car at the workshop, it's now open after the
Xmas, New Year holiday break
Apparently my 1958 Plymouth Belvedere valve
Covers are 2 bolts covers. The heads have 2 threads
One on each side to bolt the covers but no
Thread in the middle.
Is it possible for the block to be a 318 but
Have the heads of another 318 with 2 bolts
Cover instead of 3... Baffled
I thought a 1958 Plymouth V8 rocker covers
Had 3 bolts ???!!!! |
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Location: Perth Australia | The 318s I have all are 2 bolt, I think it was an early thing with the 3 bolts.
Maybe later heads or engine?
To me (but maybe not for you?), its nothing to stress over and maybe easier to get covers for (have they arrived yet)
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Location: Colo Spgs | Roberto
As Mick just said, "Don't worry because Valve Tappet Cover's are one of those items that can get switched around in time". The center of The Valve Assembly is a threaded unit that
just happens to be correct for three bolts. It has been a few years since your car was new.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | I have a set of 57 301 valve covers if they would work for you. I will dig them out and post a picture for you, they are dirty and need to be cleaned. I also have another 57 301, still complete and in the car (unmolested) that I could try to get pictures of. My problem is about 3 feet of snow on everything. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | "My problem is about 3 feet of snow on everything."
I can help you with that
You can just send me the whole car and it can defrost at my place and if you send it free freight, I wont even charge you the handling fees
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Hi everyone, I managed to get the Valve covers of John (BIG M), so thank you for everyone's help and I have a few photos of my
V8 318 engine from the workshop. I noticed that my 318 has its oil filter mounted in front of the engine with 2 pipes coming in from the
back engine to the oil filter as you will see in some of the photos. Still a few more weeks away from being finish because they
are still working on the Power Brakes system and other bits and pieces and then they will be tidying up the engine bay.
Hopefully some one can work out what year is this 318 with the oil filter mounted in front of the motor! I will probably get a reproduction
Jiffy Bag and 1958 Mopar Rubber floor mats from Gary Goers.
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Location: Alaska | Why would someone mount the oil filter like that? It would make a big mess all over the front of the engine every time it is changed. It does appear that the installation might be original to your engine but I couldn't guess what it came out of. |
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Location: Colo Spgs | Roberto
As said that is an after market or other application Oil Filter which started life some where else.
The Chromed Valve Tappet Covers are 1962'ish and newer. The hints are the folding tabs which hold The Wiring which goes to The Alternator and The Spot Welded Spark
Plug Looms ( Plasti Dip or the like will keep the wires from being worn at this location ) and of course two points to hold the cover vs three.
Do not think of this as "picking on you" - think of it as prep'ing you for future "know it all's" when you are showing off at a show & shine.
The Birth Date of the engine is under the A/C Compressor area on the face of the block. It is stamped just below the Head Gasket.
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Melbourne, Australia | RH Drive cars ran a remote oil filter assembly because the standard set up fouled the new steering box location..... ex factory ! Colin |
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Expert
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Location: Colo Spgs | Colin
Thank You for the information. It is nice when some one has more information than what seems as "normal".
Rodger & Gabby
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Hi Rodger, this is my guess but from memory the Oz cars still ran with the remote canister with internal cartridge - same as LHD cars.... this spin on filter (Ford Z9?) might indeed still be a modification/upgrade .... now looking at it, I recall the guts being at the firewall side of the motor, not the front !!! I'm sure an Oz FWD LKR will chime in ! Colin
Edited by 57plybel 2014-01-16 3:27 AM
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Rodger - 2014-01-16 1:27 AM
Roberto
As said that is an after market or other application Oil Filter which started life some where else.
The Chromed Valve Tappet Covers are 1962'ish and newer. The hints are the folding tabs which hold The Wiring which goes to The Alternator and The Spot Welded Spark
Plug Looms ( Plasti Dip or the like will keep the wires from being worn at this location ) and of course two points to hold the cover vs three.
Do not think of this as "picking on you" - think of it as prep'ing you for future "know it all's" when you are showing off at a show & shine.
The Birth Date of the engine is under the A/C Compressor area on the face of the block. It is stamped just below the Head Gasket.
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
Hi Rodger, the more information I get the better, I finally getting the correct Valve covers from John ( Big M) and What
Colin said makes sense because my steering box location, being a RHD |
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Location: North of the 49th | Hi
Just to add a few things to this oil filter location business, the installation on your car is most likely factory, in all my years the ONLY cars I had ever encountered with the oil filter located at the top right front of the engine is the Studebaker 259 cubic inch V-8, a spin on filter was used in the early sixties, but a few of the early ones used a canister with a cartridge. I checked my CHRYCO '58 and '59 parts books and parts are listed for the RHD oil filter location. Parts like tubes and brackets etc. as an example "Engine to oil filter tube assy p/n 1851585.The reasoning behind the relocation is sound and obvious. Changing the filter is no major problem on the Studes I used to just wrap a rag around the base of the filter spin it off and done with hardly any mess. In as far as time line keep in mind that the spin on filter made its debut on the "B" engines in '58, my '59 318 according to the books should have a canister type but it has a spin on and my 1976 Dodge 3/4 ton pickup which was equipped with a 318-3 (heavy duty) used a canister filter identical to my '58 and it even stumped a Chrysler dealer where I had an oil change done during a vacation trip. (I had to provide them with the part number of the filter element just to expedite things a bit (2202786).
The parts book does not show a spin on filter for the RHD installation BUT your car could have easily been converted from a canister to a spin on , early slant sixes built in Canada used a canister assembly that had the same contact face configuration as a spin on ,(Fram PH-8A & PH-43 CHRYCO/AUTOPAR FE-1, Mopar 2647019) we used to remove the whole canister from the oil pump assembly upon which its mounted install the US built nipple/standpipe and then install a spin on filter, this could have been done on your engine as well.
Edited by grunau 2014-01-16 10:07 AM
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Thanks grunau, looks like this is a factory setup for RHD here in Australia, I do have a cover for this
oil filter, which I'll paint Gold as well to match the Dual Air Filters and Valve Covers. |
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Location: Colo Spgs | Roberto and All
I want to say Thank You for showing the Right Hand Drive Vehicle's do have some different features because of the steering.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | The remote oil filter (as said) is correct on the RHD cars, but not a spin on (at least going by my stuff)
They used the remote truck filter, but I have seen it mounted to the firewall (as in my dodge) and also mounted to the engine (I think I have a canister with the brackets still on it).
The (much messed with) customer dodge I have here actually has no oil filter
Be talking to the customer today about that one
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Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Hi Rodger. my 58 Plymouth has a RHD 1958 Dodge Dash which was factory here in Australia,
but the rest of the interior is like a 1958 Plymouth Belvedere.
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Location: North of the 49th | Hi
EVER NEAT! Who would have thought, a Custom Royal Dash adapted to a Plymouth! Chrysler did some real mixing and matching with the Export and off shore builds. I notice that the ventilation controls use the same style knobs as the Dodge trucks of those years. The small bezel to the right of the light switch would normally be the emergency brake warning light ...
Beautiful car you have there!!! |
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