Goodbye 440....hello A block 318
sconut1
Posted 2014-09-23 12:18 AM (#457120)
Subject: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Well, its near the end of car show season. In fact, one more rural Alberta show, known as Pumpkinfest and it's bedtime for the Fury. But it's won't get its usual off-season nap this year. In between NFL Sundays, (Go Cowboys, Eagles and Ravens), it will be loosing it's 1969 hotrod power plant, and welcoming it's totally re-built 1957 drivetrain. I have a lot of work to do. Today, I separated the engine and transmission I got from John Fowlie and the transmission is off to the rebuilders tomorrow morning. It's an air cooled A488 transmission and I'm pretty sure the guy at the transmission shop might have worked on these cars when there were still the odd one in daily use. He ain't no spring chicken....and I'll leave it at that. I'm kind of stoked to have him working on it. When I called to book the appointment....I could hear the excitement in his voice. He wanted to know if I could bring it in right away! I told him he'd have to wait 'till tomorrow until I got it unbolted from the engine. Separating a A488 from a 318A isn't quite as pleasant a task as separating a modern day transmission, but it doesn't totally suck. As I discovered, there are eight moderately pain in the butt TC to crankshaft nuts to remove. With the engine and transmission still bolted together and suspended from a forklift, I found that you need to pull the inspection plate, but with all the dirt and dust, it didn't look like there was one! Indeed there was. With my buddy having a slightly better torque vantage point than I, with me lying under the floor under the engine, he cracked the TC nuts, and I undid them bagging both nuts and washers, labeled appropriately. After a couple of missed bell housing bol ts, we were able to separate the transmission from the engine. The torque converter decided to stay on the engine. With some gentle persuasion (wiggle back and forth), I was able to pull the TC from the crank. Transmission separated. I've read where others have had issues with this. All I can say is the fasteners were not corroded on this engine and tranny combination and though not "modern", wasn't really that bad. Beer helps (doesn't it always?) So tomorrow, I tear into the 318A. I hope to have some pics to post. But, I do have a few questions for y'all. 1. I watched John's guys pull this combination out of an 1958 Belvedere. Today I noticed, that there is green paint on the valve covers. Anyone know what might be up with the green paint? Tomorrow will also be power wash day for the block, so I'll be looking for LP2-XXXXX somewhere on the engine. If not, I suppose this won't break my heart. I'd decided on not going with an FP31 stamped engine, so even it isn't a 1958 engine, it is what it is. It's going in the car. I should mention that this engine will get a total rebuild. I don't care how good its internals may be, and in fact, I think it's probably not in bad shape. It's still getting the full meal deal. If the pistons are really good, I might re-use them, and the con-rods, but if there's any doubt, it's all getting replaced. There's a certain amount of interchangeability between 318A and 318LA engines. Should this cause pistons and rods to be super cheap, then they'll get changed regardless of condition as well. 2. I want to get the cam done to Fury spec. I'm going with the numbers published in Marvin Raguse's 1957 Plymouth Fury Restorer's Guide. I tried calling Iskandarian Cams this morning, only to find that their phone number no longer works. I then called Crane Cam. The guy I spoke with wanted duration at 50 thousands lift, gross valve lift, and the intake center line. I told him I'd get back to him. Does anyone know this info about the Fury cams? What should I need to tell people to get a Fury cam made? Who would folks here go to get this cam made? Has anyone ever heard of Chris Nielson cams? FYI...here's the info I got from Marv's book. The first numbers are for the Standard cam; the second numbers are for the Fury Cam. Intake...Open..BTC..8 Degrees...17 Degrees ............close..ABC..52 Degrees..59 Degrees Exhaust.Open..BBC..52 Degrees..55 Degrees ............Close..ATC..8 Degrees....21 Degrees Lift Intake + Exhaust 0.387........0.405 Any input on the cam is appreciated! More posts on this to come.

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ply57nz
Posted 2014-09-23 4:25 AM (#457136 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Regular

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Nielson cams done the cam for my engine ( 301 poly A engine) He suggested a 2x4 fury cam for my engine and the service was fantastic. The info on the tag that came with the cam is as follows

Engine Mopar 318 'poly'
Cam Grind 405M
Valve lift .405"
Duration 256 degrees (203 degrees@ .050")
Valve Clearance .018" in&ex

109 degrees L.S.A is written on the side of the tag so not sure what that is.

Hope that helps

Cheers Norm

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Mopar1
Posted 2014-09-23 5:38 AM (#457139 - in reply to #457136)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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degrees of lobe seperation
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fenix
Posted 2014-09-23 10:02 AM (#457158 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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8 bolts on the crankshaft? my 61 318 has 6. LA 318 pistons won't work, rods will.
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Rodger
Posted 2014-09-23 11:56 AM (#457171 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hola Gord

#1. The Engine Date and Size Code is always located on the front left face of the A 277, A-301, A-318 or A-326's block. It is stamped --- just below the Deck.

#1a. Their is a lot of items that went from a 1956 Plymouth Poly to LA-273's, LA-318's and LA-340's. This list start is:

.. the Oil Pump
... The Rod's
.... Every Bearing
.....The Valve Springs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From The LA Series of engines you can source a "Windage Tray" or a Engine Cooling Fan Drive ( #TEM 271-303 ) and a matching Engine Cooling Fan from any Rear Wheel Drive
1975 - 1988 GM or MoPar.




Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs



Rebuild To Quality not to price
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Mopar1
Posted 2014-09-23 1:38 PM (#457183 - in reply to #457158)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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fenix - 2014-09-23 9:02 AM

8 bolts on the crankshaft? my 61 318 has 6. LA 318 pistons won't work, rods will.
Through '61 should be 8 bolt, though I've seen reports of cranks in some pre-62 hemis & polys having 6 bolt cranks.
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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:10 AM (#457303 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hmm..... it's looking like this is not an original engine from the car. I did some looking around on Bing this morning. As usual, no one seem to agree on engine color, but I did find some people saying that for '63 only, the 318 was Turquoise. I'm a guy....is Turquoise kind of a green color? I did see a stamping on the front to the block. Its: 1737929. Anyone have any ideas about this number
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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:11 AM (#457304 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Transmission out of the car and on it's way to the transmission shop. Also, a close up of the torque converter





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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:37 AM (#457306 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Engine before teardown



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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:40 AM (#457307 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Water pump off.

Edited by sconut1 2014-09-25 1:42 AM




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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:46 AM (#457308 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Intake manifold off...not too shabby! No signs of sludge. Coolant passages are disgusting though. Funny, the coolant that came out of the engine was nice and green. Guess this is what happens when things sit for a while. The water pump impeller was totally incased in a salt like substance. I've got a pic of that, but it's too big to post.

Edited by sconut1 2014-09-25 1:58 AM




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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:50 AM (#457309 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Heads off. Look Ma.....no ridges to ream! There's slight corrosion on the cylinder wall. The pistons came out quite easily, using slight persuasion from a plastic hammer. One came out so easily it fell on the floor. Oops... we promise not to do that again.....

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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:58 AM (#457311 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Oil pan off and cam is removed. All the bearings looked decent, until I pulled the cap from #5. I'm pretty sure that this is what killed this engine. Lots of babbit gone from the bearing, and much of it appears to be deposited on the #5 (rear main) journal. I hope this won't wreck the crank, but we'll find out when this all makes a trip to the engine rebuilder.

Incidentally, this bearing seems too small. Anyone have any thoughts?



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60 dart
Posted 2014-09-25 3:32 AM (#457312 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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1737929 is a shared casting number from 57-64 . the number you need to designate year of your motor is on the drivers side just below the deck on that big wide
flat spot . its stamped not cast onto the block . might take some heavy cleaning to see em as some aren't stamped real deep . i'm kinda curious as to the year it
actually is ----------------------------------------------------------later
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mstrug
Posted 2014-09-25 5:05 AM (#457315 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Maybe it is a truck engine?

http://dodgesweptline.org/phorum/read.php?2,3340,3340#msg-3340
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58coupe
Posted 2014-09-25 9:54 AM (#457333 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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You should check the back of the bearings for oversize markings, also check the piston top for same. IIRC Sears sold rebuilt engines in this color.
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fenix
Posted 2014-09-25 11:43 AM (#457347 - in reply to #457333)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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machine shop guy told me to never ream the ridges, the use the original bore to center the boring bar, if Your going .030, i have a new set of pistons and rings for sale, not dished truck pistons either.
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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 1:02 PM (#457357 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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I didn't check the bearings for oversize. I'll have a look when I get the rest of it back to my place tomorrow. My mechanic buddy checked the bores for me, and he says the engine is .030 over. I won't know if I can leave it at .030 with a light hone or if the rebuilder will want to go to .040 (or whatever the next size there's pistons available for.
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Rodger
Posted 2014-09-25 2:04 PM (#457364 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Expert

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Hola

The short length Engine Mounts and the rear dumping left Exhaust Manifold both are "car division" items.

The bracket on The "center dumping" Right Exhaust Manifold is for The 12 Volt Generator Mounting.

All Three Bolt Valve Tappet Covers are of The MoPar Chrome Colour Days. In 1963 all A-318's only had Two Bolts to hold The Valve Tappet Covers
...and the Spark Plug Looms are spot welded on.

It is now 2014 and the Chrome Colour is getting had to find with-out reaching deep. For this reason some are now using a High Temp Alum Colour.

If you contact any place and ask for a O.E.M. 1966 Dodge Truck A-318 Cam Shaft --- the spec's of it are very - very good for a Torque Motor.

For a another or new Gasket, Bearing and Ring Set --- say it is for a 1966 Dodge Truck Motor that is for a Three Ton. This A-318 Engine is what is
called a Dash Three ( -3 ). The same set ( with a larger diam piston rings ) used for a 1970 LA-340 is called High Performance.




Rodger & Gabby
COS



Rebuild To Quality - not to price

Edited by Rodger 2014-09-25 6:40 PM
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sconut1
Posted 2014-09-25 3:17 PM (#457384 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hi Roger:

Thanks for the info. I'm really pleased to hear that about the valve covers. It looks like there's some '50s in this engine after all. I still have to clean the block, and maybe I'll get lucky and find the LP2 making on that engine after all. That color really threw me. Fenix also mentioned that 8 bolt cranks are not usually found on 50's engines. That concerned me a little too. But, maybe someone put in a beefier crank when the engine was rebuilt last? Who knows.

I dropped off my oil pan, valve covers, manifolds, timing chain cover and intake manifold at the rebuilders this morning for hot tanking and bead blasting. There going to check out my distributor too. I told them not to get too carried away on the distributor as it will be in there only temporarily until I find a dual points distributor.

As soon as I finish this post, I'll call Chris Nielson and order a cam. Once it's here, I'll send the block, crank and pistons in to the rebuilder and get it all done. Gotta love a re-builder who has no fear of Poly engines!
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Rodger
Posted 2014-09-25 6:42 PM (#457406 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hola Gord

From The 1956 A-277 V8 to a 1961 A-318 V8, every one used a eight bolt Crank Shaft. It made no differance if it was a four bbl pay more option or the 2 bbl version.

The Distributor is the same as used in newer LA-318's. This means that you may source one from a 1985 318 Dodge Van that is Electronic. There must be a reason that every
maker of Dual Points went away - even before The Electronic Design was introduced.




Rodger & Gabby
COS
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d500neil
Posted 2014-09-27 7:52 PM (#457588 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Electronic ignition, or not; you should send your distributor to a facility that can dial in its performance, for maximal
MPG and MPH.

The OEM design specifications on MoPar distributors is typically very conservative; there is a lot of hidden performance lurking in
your engine's OEM distributor/vacuum advance system....which is relatively easy to unleash.


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fenix
Posted 2014-09-27 9:57 PM (#457596 - in reply to #457588)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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d500neil - 2014-09-27 7:52 PM

Electronic ignition, or not; you should send your distributor to a facility that can dial in its performance, for maximal
MPG and MPH.

The OEM design specifications on MoPar distributors is typically very conservative; there is a lot of hidden performance lurking in
your engine's OEM distributor/vacuum advance system....which is relatively easy to unleash.




Exactly, when the built these things at the factory, the first thing they did is select the dizzy and place it on the assembly line belt, that determined how the car would be built, all other parts to the car were built around that individual part.
I don't know the exact reason, but I kew someone in the NASA shutttle program, they told me the higher ups and even Morton-Thiokol covered up the Challenger MURDER, the real blame was the incorrect vacumn advance setting on the boosters not alowing the boosters to achieve full thrust.

WWII, the second bomb, "Little Boy" was also traced back to an incorrect advance on it's dizzy, allowing it to prematurely detonate at 2700 feet instead of the prescribed 1700. Just kiddin', we all know there's no dizzy on such a crude Plutoninum device.

1912, the Titanic could have avoided the iceberg, but the chief engineer and monkeyed with the advances on the dizzy's on two of the engines, when the Capt. asked for more power, it wasn't there and couldn't avoid the berg.

1941, Pearl harbor, none of the aircraft launched to counter the Japanese attack could come up to speed and ward of the attack, why?, You guessed it, experimental dizzy's had been installed in all the fighter's at the base commanders orders.

I personally remove my dizzy every night and place it in a safe, once a week I fly it to MSD HQ and have it verified, then it's sent to National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). for verification, yep I take no chances my dizzy is not 100%.






Edited by fenix 2014-09-28 1:31 AM
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sconut1
Posted 2014-10-08 12:53 AM (#458513 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Today, I sent my Camshaft off to Chis Nielson Vintage Racing Cams for, well, modification. Chris tells me that he can build a Fury cam from the cam that was in my car. He has excellent pricing.

http://www.nielsoncams.com/

I tried Iskandarian, but there was no phone number on their website that worked. I tried Crane Cams, but they didn't like the specs that I gave them and needed more information. I'd forgotten about Chris and that he did this type of work. So thanks Norm (Ply57nz) for reminding me! I think my Camshaft project is in good hands with Chris.
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mstrug
Posted 2014-10-08 5:07 AM (#458525 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Here another cam maker:

http://www.camcraftcams.com/index.php?page=318-chrysler
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mstrug
Posted 2014-10-08 5:15 AM (#458526 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert 5K+

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Chris' jnfo:

Chris Nielson Cams
P.O. Box 416
644 West 100 North
Farmington, UT 84025
(801)451-7745
Camshafts, Timing Components and other engine parts.
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mstrug
Posted 2014-10-08 5:17 AM (#458527 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Don't know if this is current, Headers!

Spitfire Headers
2823 Highway 348
Rudy, Arkansas 72952
1-501-474-0120
Harold Block hugger headers for Poly 318 Approx. $150.00
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mstrug
Posted 2014-10-08 5:28 AM (#458529 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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article on polys:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/howto/mopp_0110_how_to_give_a_31...
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big m
Posted 2014-10-08 11:35 AM (#458546 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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I used Chris Nielson for my Fury cam, and was quite pleased with the service and product.

---John
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sconut1
Posted 2014-10-08 11:50 PM (#458596 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hi John:

Cool! I'm glad to hear you've used him and were happy with the results. Makes me even more confident in my decision to use Chris. I'm sure he will do a good job.

To be honest, I can't wait to post photos of the engine you sold me decked out in Fury colors back in the car! I'm kind of stoked over this project.

Edited by sconut1 2014-10-08 11:51 PM
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big m
Posted 2014-10-09 11:35 AM (#458622 - in reply to #458596)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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sconut1 - 2014-10-08 8:50 PM

Hi John:

Cool! I'm glad to hear you've used him and were happy with the results. Makes me even more confident in my decision to use Chris. I'm sure he will do a good job.

To be honest, I can't wait to post photos of the engine you sold me decked out in Fury colors back in the car! I'm kind of stoked over this project.



Looking forward to seeing it myself, Gord!
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sconut1
Posted 2014-11-20 11:30 PM (#462405 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hi All:

It's been way too long since I updated this post, so here's an update as to where this project of mine is sitting at the moment.


Today's word of the day: Over-budget

Meh.....


I'm going to call the transmission place tomorrow. Based on my last conversation with them, it should be ready to go. My unofficial price for a rebuild was $700.00, but apparently, it needed bands, which were $200.00 each, so they sent them out for rebuild at a lower cost. There were also some additional internal issues, so the re-build will stand me about $1500.00.

The engine.... was supposed to come in around $2600.00, not including Chris Nielson's work. However, the rebuilder found that the pistons had some, and I forget the exact term for this, some "knurling" on the piston skirts. Apparently, this "knurling" is done on a piston to compensate for a slightly "inadequate" bore. The re-builder said that he had the machine to do this, but that no one does this anymore on engine rebuilds, and that the right way to do this would be to bore to the next interval (in my case, .40 over), and replace pistons and rings as appropriate. I'd asked for hardened exhaust seats earlier, but unfortunately, 7 out of 8 exhaust valves were burned and I'd asked for 8 our of 8 to be replaced. There were also 3 intake valves that were beyond repair, so they're being replaced as well. Valves aren't expensive, but when you add the valves to the overbore to the new pistons....well, add an extra $1100.00 to the original work order and you're at, $3700.00.

My ass hurts now. This project is an excellent substitute for a hemorrhoid.

My rebuilders tell me.... "...it's old car stuff". I suppose they're right. Doesn't take the sting out of my left or right cheek though.....

I'll have a good motor and transmission when I'm done though! This car is driving to Carlisle from western Canada next year, so stuff's gotta be done right.

I went to Cooper Brother's Auto Electric here in town. I asked for a rebuild of my starter and generator. Turns out for around $400.00, I can get re-man units from Wilson electric out of Winnipeg has both re-build and ready to go. Sold! I pick 'em up on Monday.

Engine rebuild parts won't be in until Dec. So it looks like my Fury will have a heck of a Christmas present waiting for it.

In the meantime, I'm going to have a buddy of mine video me doing a compression test and a startup of the Fury with the 440 in it, so prospective buyers of my old engine will be able to see what they're going to get. It will be impossible to do this with the engine out of the car. Once John does the video of me
doing the startup and compression test, I'll re-paint the underside of the hood in an equishene tone to match my trunk. Then I'll pull the outer and inner fenders, re-paint the inner fenders (Glenn B.... you're engine compartment is too cool not to duplicate), repaint the firewall to body color and get the new drive train installed.

Stay tuned y'all...... plenty more good stuff and pics to come!




Edited by sconut1 2014-11-20 11:41 PM
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VAN HELSING
Posted 2014-11-21 2:52 AM (#462413 - in reply to #462405)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia
..........


Knurled pistons was a stop-gap measure to help extend the life of sloppy worn pistons in years gone by, I've seen a few on very old engines many years ago but it's just not done any more due to the fact that piston manufacture and technology has advanced to the point that pistons are relatively inexpensive nowdays compared to the labor to knurl up a set of pistons it would probably be cheaper to buy new pistons and rebore the engine and that's the way I would go if it were my engine.

............
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sconut1
Posted 2014-11-25 11:53 PM (#462834 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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A few new parts have finally started to roll in. Here's my new generator and starter.....



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sconut1
Posted 2014-11-25 11:58 PM (#462837 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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For S&G's, here's some pics of my new engine crane and the cross member from the '58 Plymouth that I'll be using to donate engine mounts from and will also be using to help me establish position for the new mounts.

Apparently....my engine crane photo is too big to post....

Edited by sconut1 2014-11-26 12:04 AM




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sconut1
Posted 2014-11-26 12:04 AM (#462839 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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For more S&Gs.....here's some before photos of the 440 in it's current resting spot....

Notice my incorrect black firewall....this will change once the engine is out.

Edited by sconut1 2014-11-26 12:07 AM




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goat19642004
Posted 2014-11-27 8:01 AM (#462943 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Member

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Location: Clifton Springs, NY
What are you running for exhaust manifolds on that 440?
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sconut1
Posted 2014-11-28 9:23 PM (#463067 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hi Goat:

Some folks at car shows have mentioned that to me that they're "the good ones". I don't really know what that means, but I had one guy trying to buy them from me at the last car show I attended. I can tell you that that 440 is a high performance engine as it has the H stamp on the boss and it is out of a 1969 Plymouth GTX based on the serial number on boss on the side of the block above the oil pan. The exhaust manifolds are Chrysler manifolds as they have the Pentastar on them and have a "normal" looking part number on them.

Edited by sconut1 2014-11-28 9:24 PM
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goat19642004
Posted 2014-11-30 8:08 AM (#463180 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Member

Posts: 32
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Location: Clifton Springs, NY
Thanks for the reply. Do you have any side view pictures of the engine? I'm trying to figure out the best exhaust manifold/ header option for my car. I also have a 440(bored and stroked to a 493) that Currenty has a set of homemade headers that are causing me some headaches. I'm new to the Mopar world and unfamiliar with different types of manifolds. Now ask me about Pontiacs and I'll have the answer!
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narleycharlie
Posted 2014-11-30 11:16 AM (#463195 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Yes please post side shots of the manifolds. And also a shot of the drop down by the steering box.
They look like HP manifolds.

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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-02 10:32 PM (#463435 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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I took a pic from the side, but it was too big to post. I'll try a few more times and then post them. I'd assume that they would be high perf manifolds, but I say that only because the engine does have the H stamp on it's identification boss.
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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-03 10:48 PM (#463533 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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Goat & Narliecharlie........

Here are photos of my exhaust manifolds.
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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-03 10:49 PM (#463534 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Goat & Narliecharlie........

Here are photos of my exhaust manifolds.



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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-03 10:55 PM (#463535 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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Ok.....back on track.....

My Golden Lion paint arrived this week. A super big thanks to Scott at Crosstown Chrysler Dodge here in Edmonton who snagged the last 5 cans of this stuff in Canada located west of Toronto for me!

Edited by sconut1 2014-12-03 11:03 PM




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oldwood
Posted 2014-12-03 11:30 PM (#463539 - in reply to #463535)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Expert

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That Gold Paint should look good on those 2 FERDS you own. lol Just Kidding!!!
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skyhawk
Posted 2014-12-06 3:49 PM (#463831 - in reply to #463534)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Can you post the casting number of the driver's side high performance exhaust manifold? Thanks. Dennis
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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-06 11:50 PM (#463859 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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LOL.....at Oldwood.....well, I could use it on the Mustang, but I wouldn't have any left for the Fury!

Shyhawk....sure, I'll grab it tomorrow and post it for you
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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-06 11:54 PM (#463860 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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Well. things weren't moving along with this quite fast enough to suit me, so a buddy of mine popped by this weekend and we took the front end of the Fury off. I left the left inner fender is as I'm still waiting for another buddy to get his a$$ over to my place and take a video of me doing a compression test. So it stays, being a convenient holder for the battery and all....

Here's a photo or two of what we did today.

Gotta love my black spray-bombed firewall. That will be changing to body color as soon as the motor and tranny are out. I think you should have to pass an IQ test before you're allowed to buy spray paint. Oh... was....was that my outside voice????.......

Edited by sconut1 2014-12-07 12:06 AM




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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-15 8:09 PM (#464774 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
And I'm still waiting on a camshaft.......................................................................
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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-15 8:31 PM (#464776 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Skyhawk......

Hi Dennis... I'm sorry took so long to get back to you on this. The Driver's side exhaust manifold has a part number of: 2843392-1. I'm not sure about that -1. I thought that Chrysler part numbers were typically 7 digits, so I'm not sure what that designates. There is a date stamped in the casting: 9-9-68. My engine was produced in late 1968, so the dates do jive, more or less.

For S&Gs, I tried grabbing the one of the passenger side as well. Its part number is either 2806800 or 2806900. The part number isn't cast "nicely" in the manifold, and I had a tough time reading the number. But, such that they are, here you go!

If you find out that these are something other that what they appear to be, please let me know. The serial number off the side of the engine block shows that this engine was originally installed in a 1969 Plymouth GTX. If these manifolds turn out to be for something else, or if you find the numbers to totally not jive or otherwise not make sense, please let me know. I'm far from a Chrysler muscle car guru.
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2014-12-16 9:24 AM (#464826 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Looking good Gord!!

BTW, your Mustang has a bunk mate the same colour now, 'cept it's a Studebaker!
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skyhawk
Posted 2014-12-19 10:21 PM (#465271 - in reply to #464776)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Veteran

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Hi Gord,
I checked several sources that list the casting numbers of Mopar exhaust manifolds, but I couldn't find an entry for 2843392. Is it possible that your left side manifold number is 2843992, which is listed for 383/440 left side applications 1968-69? Your passenger side manifold number, 2806900, shows as being used on 68-69 383/440s. These numbers would be good for the year your 440 engine was installed in the GTX donor car. Dennis
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sconut1
Posted 2014-12-23 8:59 PM (#465672 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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I'll check that manifold again. The casting numbers are a little difficult to read, but I already suspect that your guess at the number is probably right. I'll post back as soon as I can.
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wayfarer
Posted 2014-12-30 3:15 PM (#466229 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Elite Veteran

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MaMopar typically started the next model year production after July so that cast date would be for 1969.
The '-1' number is the number of the mold for that casting.
Perhaps you can post a side-photo of the manifolds when the engine is out.

For others with a need, we also do cam regrinds.

.

Edited by wayfarer 2014-12-30 3:17 PM
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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-02 11:44 PM (#466529 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Hi Skyhawk:

I took another look at that driver side manifold and indeed, it is 2843992-1.

Wayfarer:

Your post about the -1 makes sense to me. The engine (if memory serves me correctly, was produced in Sept? Oct? (I can't remember exactly) of '68 and was installed in a '69 GTX, so more and more, I think those manifolds (if not original to the engine), are at least period correct for it.

Everyone else... stay tuned.... this project was side tracked by the Christmas holiday, but I plan to get busy again this weekend. More updates/pics to come very soon. A big thanks to Jeff Nichols and Jessica S, who've also given me a ton of advice so far in addition to everyone else who's posted here!

Edited by sconut1 2015-01-02 11:50 PM
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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-15 12:42 AM (#467635 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Placed a huge order with Rock Auto tonight. Basically every external engine part (including temp and oil senders)...cap, rotor, plugs, air filters, water pump, fuel pump, belts, hoses, Air Filters (BTW....Fury side saddle air filters are WIX 42030 or NAPA 2030) and more.

I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam......This is holding me up, This is holding me up, This is holding me up, This is holding me up......

Ok, enough already... lots more to come
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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-22 9:48 PM (#468355 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
My camshaft arrived today, along with my Rock Auto parts order and my order of engine paint from Bill Hirsch. I discovered that I needed upper bushings on both upper control arms as well and now is the obvious time to do this work. I ordered two sets of bushings from Rare Parts and these arrived this week too. I'm painting my inner fenders this weekend, as well as the rad saddle.

With luck, I should be in possession of my engine by the end of next week

Edited by sconut1 2015-01-22 11:19 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2015-01-23 3:57 AM (#468369 - in reply to #468355)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Gord, you should take this opportunity to replace EVERY suspension component/bushing on your car, including the "rag joint"
at least, confirm its good-condition, as that 'rag joint' can produce front end steering instability.

All FWDLK'ers can and should have steering systems that exhibit virtually no front end 'play' or wandering tendencies.

Of course, the tires' condition and the front end alignment are very important (you should be able to dial-in 1.5 degrees of Positive Caster, too,
to allow/create steering self-alignment, and Lucas brand "Steering Stop Leak" in the P/S reservoir will increase steering
response and 'feel')

Nobody should have to suffer from vague 'playful' steering response in his car.





Edited by d500neil 2015-01-23 3:59 AM
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soiouz
Posted 2015-01-26 8:34 AM (#468635 - in reply to #467635)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert

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Location: Quebec, Canada
sconut1 - 2015-01-15 12:42 AM

Placed a huge order with Rock Auto tonight. Basically every external engine part (including temp and oil senders)...cap, rotor, plugs, air filters, water pump, fuel pump, belts, hoses, Air Filters (BTW....Fury side saddle air filters are WIX 42030 or NAPA 2030) and more.

I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam, I wish I had my cam......This is holding me up, This is holding me up, This is holding me up, This is holding me up......

Ok, enough already... lots more to come



What fuel pump did you order?

I had a lot of trouble with the (Airtex 711 I think) fuel pump Rockauto sold me last fall for the stock 313 in my car. Had to return it, they sent another which was WORSE! I finally asked for a full refund and got my very old pump overhauled instead. It works fine now.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-27 11:41 PM (#468788 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Neil: Will be replacing a few more bushings in the front end. I was able to get (memory fails me on the proper name) of the bushings that go through the front crossmember. The rest of the stuff is not difficult to get to with the driveline in the car, and I'd prefer to have the car at my friend's shop and have him do the balance of the bushings. He's properly equipped to do the balance of the rubber bushings (lower control arms, et. al) where I'm not. As far as the steering components go, I've had this car safety checked every year that I've owned it and the front end stuff (shocks, ball joints, tie rod ends) are in quite good shape and are nice and tight, so happily that's an expense I won't need to incur. Nevertheless, thanks for making that post. It's excellent advice and if I did need to repair any of the steering components, I'd be replacing all of them, and at this time. My tires are almost brand new Goodyear Custom SuperCusions. They've seen less than 3000 miles since I installed them on the car in 2011.

Soiouz: I have a feeling it is the Airtex pump I ordered. In fact, I just went out and checked and indeed, it is the Airtex 711 that I purchased. What kind of issues did you have with it?

Edited by sconut1 2015-01-28 12:09 AM
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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-27 11:42 PM (#468789 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Gentleman....meet my 40% insurance surcharge......



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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-27 11:54 PM (#468791 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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I had a buddy pop by my place last night. I've never pulled an engine before and he's done a few. Turns out that it was quite an easy pull. We had the engine out of the car in about 45 minutes, which left plenty of time for beer.

With a little luck, my poly 318 should be done this week or early next week. My transmission may have been completed today, so I need to call them tomorrow and see what the scoop is. My more or less correct radiator (out of a 1957 Plodge), is done and I'll pick it up tomorrow. So... at this point, it's remove the upper control arms, have them re-bushed, replace the bushings for the strut rods, refinish the frame, refinish the firewall. The firewall I'll cover in a different post, though most of you will catch an electrical mod the instant you see it. I have a portion of a firewall from a car I got from John Fowlie, which I'll be cutting up to repair this little mess. But again, that's for another post. I thought I'd include some photos of the engine mounts that the 440 installer used.

So that's where I'm at right now. Gonna have a buddy hack out the 440 mounts and weld in proper Poly V8 mounts. When that's done, I'll repair the firewall back to a proper wiring bulkhead and then refinish it, followed by repainting the front of the frame.







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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-27 11:58 PM (#468792 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

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Apparently... the firewall pic was to big to post.

Oh yea.. .one more item..... I got my right hand exhaust manifold back from the cast iron welding place today. No, you don't want to know how much it cost. However, magnafluxed, repaired and heat riser valve removed and holes plug welded, such that it is...here it is....


I think I might try painting the exhaust manifolds with VHT's very high temperature primer and paint. Jury is out on that still. The welds are great, but that manifold doesn't look that good the way it is. I'm thinking about painting it black or maybe dark grey if I think the dark grey can look sorta like cast iron... Supposedly that VHT stuff (PowerBlock TV says so... for what ever that's worth) says that it's supposed to be good for 2000F, and they've painted headers with it before. Again....still thinking about it.

Edited by sconut1 2015-01-28 12:04 AM




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soiouz
Posted 2015-01-28 6:57 AM (#468805 - in reply to #468788)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert

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sconut1 - 2015-01-27 11:41 PM

Soiouz: I have a feeling it is the Airtex pump I ordered. In fact, I just went out and checked and indeed, it is the Airtex 711 that I purchased. What kind of issues did you have with it?



First one I received had so much play in the lever arm that it didn't work at all. The lever even had side to side play, as if it were missing the little bushing around the pin that holds the lever.

I mentionned this as the reason for the return to rockauto, and they promptly sent me another one.

When I got that one I thought it was a bad joke: the lever arm was so stiff, I couldn't make it move even slightly as if it were welded shut. Both were completely useless.




Edited by soiouz 2015-01-28 8:12 AM
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60 dart
Posted 2015-01-29 12:44 AM (#468874 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert 5K+

Posts: 8426
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA
this airtex 711 was in my stroker 318 for less than 10 minutes . the pressure was 3 lbs. and the wear plate on the tine is worn through , if it can be seen in the photo good enough ----------------------------------later


pssss . the stripes on the tine are the laminated pieces that make up the arm .

Edited by 60 dart 2015-01-29 12:47 AM




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soiouz
Posted 2015-01-29 10:41 AM (#468895 - in reply to #468874)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert

Posts: 3440
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60 dart - 2015-01-29 12:44 AM

this airtex 711 was in my stroker 318 for less than 10 minutes . the pressure was 3 lbs. and the wear plate on the tine is worn through , if it can be seen in the photo good enough ----------------------------------later


pssss . the stripes on the tine are the laminated pieces that make up the arm .



Geeez!

What did you end up using? Any other brand that you would recommend? I was thinking of a conversion to electr. pump if I cannot find a better one.
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mstrug
Posted 2015-01-29 1:04 PM (#468900 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert 5K+

Posts: 5551
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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)
You could Jet-Hot the Manifolds:

http://www.jet-hot.com/coatings/jet-hot-extreme-2500/
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60 dart
Posted 2015-01-30 12:18 AM (#468944 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert 5K+

Posts: 8426
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA
when i bought the first one , i got a twin to . right now i'm tracking down a set of cooler firing plugs for the stroker . maybe a week of so i'll see how the new pump goes . before i put the new 711 on , i also had to change
the eccentric , as it got hot enough to turn blue . i also added a chain oiler to that side , just as some of the early 318's had . truth is i'm scared to death to fire it up again and the whole thing fail . i thought of using an
electric but i didn't want to tap into the old electricals . so now it's just a wait and see how badly things are going to turn out . at this point , optomism eludes me-----------------------------------------later
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Mopar1
Posted 2015-01-30 1:20 PM (#468987 - in reply to #468944)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Expert

Posts: 2676
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Location: N.W. Fla.
Been a lot of problems the last few years with hemi F/Ps, HH has an adaptor/spacer that allows use of an LA. Would that work on a Poly?
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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-31 3:18 PM (#469106 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Well, I think you guys talked me out of the Airtex pump. Gonna see if I can source one elsewhere. If not, I think I'll follow Soiouz's advice and see if I can get a rebuild kit for my old one. Though........ if an 318 LA fuel pump will work, this will create better options.....
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60 Imp
Posted 2015-01-31 7:00 PM (#469125 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


2000500100100100100252525
Location: North Australia
Why not rebuild a pump?

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&c...

I used one of these kits for my 413 and it works great so far (nearly 3000 miles).

Steve.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-01-31 9:40 PM (#469136 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Elite Veteran

Posts: 782
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
The rebuilt pump will definitely be the plan if I can't find a good quality pump. If I can find a new pump from a reputable company..... AC, Carter.... someone.... I'll go that route. If not, I guess I'm rebuilding the old pump from the 318.

Edited by sconut1 2015-01-31 9:41 PM
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2015-02-02 10:31 AM (#469230 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Should be the same rebuild kit as I bought for my '57 Chrysler...
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wayfarer
Posted 2015-02-02 1:13 PM (#469242 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Seems to me that an A engine and an LA engine should physically mount the fuel pump in the same configuration, the differences being the exterior design of the pump.
Perhaps an email to Gary Pavlovich is in order. glpavlovich@cox.net

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sconut1
Posted 2015-02-09 10:58 PM (#469741 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Well.....some more progress.

I got the engine back from the re-builders. I promptly took it out to a friends shop where we'll put the heads on, lifters in, and intake manifold. It will be way easier to make the transmission and the engine block back together while it's out there too.

I'm still waiting on my transmission and getting a little bit frustrated with the wait. These guys seem to know their old transmissions, but it's not the most organized shop it the world. Right now, I'm waiting on a part that they refer to as the front pressure plate. I found this an odd choice of words for an automatic transmissions, but apparently, after doing a little research, the front pressure plate is the first plate in the clutch pack. The shop keeps ordering, and they keep getting them for a 727, rather than an A488. I'm thinking I might have to order this for them. They're a little old school there, and don't have a computer.

I was able to get my motor mounts installed. Here's a photo:



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(IMG_1037.JPG)



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sconut1
Posted 2015-02-09 11:12 PM (#469742 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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As far as the mounts go, we were able to find "good" scars where the old mounts were removed underneath the 440 mounts. The old scars fit the donor mounts perfectly, so I was comfortable welding them in.

I also managed to the upper control arm bushings replaced. This....was a royal PITA. After fabricating a tool similar to that in the manual and some repeated taps from a hammer (of various sizes), I was not able to get the upper ball joint to separate from the knuckle. Now... I had options, but any of them would damage the ball joint which I wanted to keep. I ended up removing the bolts for the control arm, and pressing the old ones out and new ones in. I also had to build a "press like tool" like in the service manual to remove and install these things. Had the ball joint come out.... it would have been easy to take the whole control arm in somewhere and have the old bushings removed and the new ones pressed in. Doing this job with the control arm still attached to the car is a little more challenging. I'll leave it at that.

I also managed to get my valve covers primed, and my exhaust manifolds primed. I decided to use VHT's very high temperature primer for this. If I have issues with the manifolds down the road, it's not a huge deal to try something different. And hey... it worked on Powerblock TV.....

The one thing that does suck about this paint is that you cannot paint over it unless you wait seven days, so sayeth the instructions. So.... next Sunday, I can make my valve covers gold and do the back side of the exhaust manifolds. It will be a month long process to paint these exhaust manifolds, but it's not like there isn't other work to do in the meantime. I'm tempted to continue anyway, but I suppose I'd better not.

Here's a few photos of the valve covers and manifolds in VHT primer.



(IMG_1035.JPG)



(IMG_1040.JPG)



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sconut1
Posted 2015-02-09 11:24 PM (#469743 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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The next two items that I'll tackle will be my frame and my firewall. I'll clean the frame, prime and paint it. As you can see from the photo below, my firewall is just plain rude, and was one of several reasons I wasn't the first guy to lift my hood at a car show.

There was a lot of stuff that wasn't supposed to be mounted on my firewall. There was an Electronic Ignition Box, a ballast resistor, and "Modern" (60s-70s-80s) starter relay. There were also a few holes drilled in the firewall for miscellaneous wiring for aftermarket stuff that presumably lived under the hood. I'll need to plug weld these holes and grind the welds. There's also a bulkhead connector from something, that's not supposed to be there. I have a piece of firewall that I bought from John Fowlie. I'll cut out the section of the firewall I need with the proper size hole made to fit the rubber bulkhead plug that's supposed to be there. I'll cut a hole in the firewall for this, and then weld in the new piece. Once this is done, I can prime and paint the Firewall and this car will start looking like it should.

Here's a photo of it as it is now.... I truly cannot believe that one of this car's prior owners thought that black spray paint was a good idea.

Edited by sconut1 2015-02-09 11:30 PM




(IMG_1033mod.jpg)



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sconut1
Posted 2015-02-09 11:34 PM (#469744 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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One parting update..... my engine rebuilder wasn't able to rebuild my distributor. It's not really their forte, and when they found my vacuum advance was shot, that was the end of it. So, I've sent the distributor off to the Philbin group in Portland, OR, as d500Neil suggested. They will rebuild the distributor, replace the vacuum advance, and curve the distributor according to the information Neil sent me.
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soiouz
Posted 2015-02-10 7:08 AM (#469763 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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That some nice progress! Thanks for the update!
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2015-02-11 9:23 AM (#469856 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Looking good Gord!!

Do you still need the power steering pump, out of this '57 Belvedere here?
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Mopar1
Posted 2015-02-12 9:59 AM (#469930 - in reply to #469856)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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An LA dizzy is a bolt in.....though it may need a recurve.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-03-10 11:29 PM (#472188 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Been awhile since I updated this..... Frame is painted, Firewall is now painted body color, my distributor is back from Philbin, sporting a total rebuild and a curve according to D500Neil's well researched specs. Photos to come in the next day or two.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-03-10 11:34 PM (#472189 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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And a big thank you to Michelon Brad! Brad hooked me up with the correct power steering pump, a new gasket for my heater box, a new gasket for my heater motor assembly, a bulkhead wiring gasket, and a power steering hose set with the correct clamps and even a sticker for my power steering pump! He also hooked me up with another torqueflite transmission. The transmission story, at this time is not a happy one, and is one I'll detail a little later in this post. My transmission woes are the last piece in the puzzle before I put everything back together again.
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oldwood
Posted 2015-03-10 11:48 PM (#472192 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Is there any info on these Headers made in Arkansas??? Since I live in Arkansas I might as well check into them. I'm following your build as I may be doing a 318 rebuild in the near future.
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oldwood
Posted 2015-03-11 9:39 AM (#472208 - in reply to #472192)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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The phone # that you provided for those headers has been disconnected
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mstrug
Posted 2015-03-11 10:12 AM (#472211 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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You could oven cure the paint.

Hey Travis,
They turned out great. Not much odor. 200 degrees isn't all that hot really. Not sure how durable it will be? Oh and I don't think I made it clear but I only was doing the calipers and some other small parts not the whole engine. Caliper paint baked @ 200 for 60 min .

If you plan on cooking more small parts I might suggest getting a toaster oven. Not to expensive new, dirt cheap at garage/lawn sales. For some what larger parts, a regular electric stove with working oven. Keep them in the garage.
May help keep the peace on the home front.


http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2520
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sconut1
Posted 2015-04-04 7:21 PM (#474368 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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My Firewall, ready for priming



(IMG_1046.JPG)



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sconut1
Posted 2015-04-04 7:28 PM (#474369 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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I primed the firewall and took care of a few of the larger imperfections. A lot happened in the last month or so, and I'll try to do a better job of telling you about them later this evening. Long story short, is that I've got the engine installed, the transmission installed and I'm on the way to putting the car back together. Here's a photo of the car showing off it's freshly re-plated hood hinges, painted springs, and it's installed engine.

Edited by sconut1 2015-04-04 7:36 PM




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ttotired
Posted 2015-04-04 7:55 PM (#474371 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Not to pick holes (pardon the pun), but it looks like you have assembled your heads like I did, and I am sure I have mine on backwards

I dont think it really makes any difference, but if you look at the back of your heads, I think you will see that the head on the r/h side (as your looking at it) will have 4 tapped bolt holes at the back which (I think) are supposed to go to the front of the left side for accessory mounting options

I didnt notice it until I had mine running

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60 dart
Posted 2015-04-05 12:00 AM (#474392 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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pre 62 poly heads on have one hole per head . that one hole is for the ground wire and a head can be swapped to either side ----------------------------------------later
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ttotired
Posted 2015-04-05 4:41 AM (#474399 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Not sure about that one Chuck

I have 5 318s here, all of them have 1 head with 4 holes at one end including my plymouth, which looks like an untouched engine

I will say though, that 4 out of the 5 engines are/were red, its only the plymouths engine thats silver

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60 dart
Posted 2015-04-06 12:09 AM (#474470 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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i should have said pre 61 , 61 has an alternator . pre 61 had a manifold mounted gen. . so , no need for all the holes ------------------------------------------later
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sconut1
Posted 2015-04-07 2:39 AM (#474594 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hmm.... interesting. I'll have a look at that. I was fighting with my distributor drive gear tonight, but will take a look at the heads and report back... I still owe everyone a proper update too.

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sconut1
Posted 2015-04-08 12:44 AM (#474709 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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To report back on the heads, there were no bolt holes on the rear. The engine should be a '58, so according to 60 Dart, there should be no additional bolt holes than what I have. So, all seems to make sense.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-04-08 1:34 AM (#474710 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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So....the story......... here's what's happened since mid February.

My cam arrived, it was installed in the engine, and the engine delivered to me. I had my mechanic buddy install the heads. Someone got a little carried away at my engine rebuilders with a box cutter and cut into my new head gaskets. Oh well, S*it happens. There's a local specialty shop that specializes in antique cars here. I stopped by and Garry not only hooked me up with head gaskets, but they were NOS head gaskets, stamped with the DPDC logo. My buddy installed the heads for me (I had absolutely zero room in my garage for a second engine at this time). I'd also burned myself years ago as a know-it-all teenager adjusting valves. If you're imaginative, you can figure out the ugliness that ensued. I didn't want a repeat of that, so I thought I'd get Danny to install the heads for me. I'll learn on the next project. Long block done... darn near painless! I just have to pay the bill..... I keep telling him no one rides for free....so I'd best pony up!

The transmission.....well... debauchery ensued. This was the absolute horror story of this whole job.

I'd dropped the transmission off the third week of September 2014. I was told to call in 3 weeks. I called.... nothing had been done. I was told to call again in a few weeks.... was told to call again in a week. I kept getting the run around. By this time, I'd realized I'd be late on getting my camshaft back from rebuilding....my fault. I'd misunderstood some directions and Chris Neilson had left for a winter vacation before he received my payment for the camshaft. No harm, no foul. Once I got the cam, I waited for my engine to be completed and in the meantime, I'd left the transmission shop alone. I feel that tradespeople are often best left alone. I still believe that, but it worked against me this time.

Once I received the engine, I started calling the transmission shop. By this time it was the end of February. I got the usual two weeks. I decided to head down to the shop and it was my intention to bang heads and fists if necessary. I met a dapper old gentleman there. I spoke with him, informed him that I was the guy with the cast iron torqueflite that has been there close to 20 weeks, and wanted to know if I could pick it up on Friday, completed. I was informed that the fellow I'd been dealing with had been fired, that he'd been sabotaging jobs, that my tranny was one of the sabotaged jobs and that he'd been stealing customer deposits. I was asked if I'd paid any cash up front, and I said no. I was informed that I'd "be ok".

Apparently, the old guy who owned the shop hadn't been actively working there, and he'd been counting on his mechanics to complete the jobs. Now, he'd be doing them, but he was only able to work a few hours a day (I'm guessing he's mid 80s). He was going to complete my transmission for me. He's asked if I could source another. I knew that Miquelon Brad here had one, but I'd hesitated wondering if I should even bother with this place anymore. The first old guy said that they'd brought in the parts for the transmission and that they'd be able to complete it. I decided to work with them. I got a second TF from Brad and brought it to them. They used good parts from the TF I got from Brad, plus the new parts they had from my transmission and put things together.

I'd asked them to check the torque converter. They checked it and said it was OK. I picked up the transmission two weeks ago and brought it to my buddy's place where we were going to put the two together. I wasn't left with a warm and fuzzy feeling over this transmission, so I decided to get a second opinion on the TC. I was told not to put it in, that it was filthy inside and that I'd have to send it to Vancouver for re-building. I wasn't happy at this time. I decided to take the TC to a third shop. Turns out, it was the shop my buddy uses for transmission repair. (Dan will R&I, but not rebuild anything). They looked at it, checked the end play, said it was ok, but very dirty. I left it with them, they cleaned it up, dresses the end of the TC where it mates to the seal on the transmission and they said it should be good.

I brought the whole mess back to my buddy's shop. We suspended the engine with a forklift and placed the transmission on a scissor lift. We assembled the engine and transmission and I took it back to my place. A few days later, he popped by and we installed the engine and transmission in the car.

I finally thought that I was now in control. I'd removed everything myself, so I could take things from here with no issue.

Famous last words......

I decided to get the right hand exhaust manifold mounted on the engine first. This was the manifold that I'd had cast iron welded. It wouldn't fit over the new studs. I was more than a little POed at this point, with cast iron welding costs being roughly 10 times here in Alberta what one would pay in the USA for the same work based on a PM I received. The Alberta labor advantage... well..., er. if you're the recipient. I got brave, and using a de-burring tool, enlarged the bolt holes on the exhaust manifold. I put the manifold on and it went on hard. I had to tap it with a plastic hammer to get it go over the studs, but it finally went on. I used a new exhaust manifold gasket, so I should be ok there.

Next was the starter. I went to install it, only to find that the thread holes in the adapter plate that bolts to the back the engine were totally destroyed. This also did not make me happy. I went to a local fastener supply store here, and a) purchased new fasteners for every last bolt on the engine and b) a 3/8-16 heli-coil kit. I was nervous about using the heli-coils as I'd never used them before. Turns out, they're not that bad. Drill as straight as you can, tap as straight as you can and the heli-coil will thread right in! Starter installed. I followed up with the left hand intake manifold. This was mostly a painless re-installation.

The water pump went in next, followed by the new generator. Painless, but forgot to get a new bolt for the long bracket. I got the bolt and all is good. Im discovering every old fastener on that engine was in poor condition. Now....when you purchase a new Airtex water pump from Rock Auto, it will have two plugs in it. Both need to be removed. The little one is for the heater hose, and one (as I did) will need to go to the local speed shop and get a new outlet to install in here. The larger hole (9/16" allen key required), is for the cross over tube. I had to buy an allen key to remove this as I had nothing this size in my kit. There's an adapter to a "normal size" hose supplied with the kit, but you'll need to install it in the water pump before installing the crossover outlet. Again, redily available at a speed shop.

I went to a local muffler shop to get a few pieces. I absolutely refuse to drive or start this car without the exhaust hooked up. I'm just anal that way. Glasspaks on someone's hot rod don't impress me.... at all and I won't be "that guy". The muffler shop sold me studs, nuts, exhaust gaskets and a sort of flange (not the right word), that I can weld pipe to. I went to NAPA and picked up some flexible exhaust tubing and an adapter to run the flex tube into the existing exhaust pipe. This, is Africa Engineering at it's finest. If this setup works well, I'll run it this summer, and I'll get the exhaust done complete next spring. If it doesn't, I'll have to bite the bullet and do it this summer.

So... in a nutshell, that's what's been happening over the last two months. I've been at this just about every night and every weekend, so that's why I've been a little quiet. I'm thinking that, in reality, there's only about 10-15 more hours of real work (not work and beer....typical with me), to get this car complete. I should be able to post more pics and more updates as this month progresses.

So.... that's where I'm at so far. My completion goal date is May 1st.




Edited by sconut1 2015-04-08 1:35 AM
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ttotired
Posted 2015-04-08 4:56 PM (#474770 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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I ran into the same little problem with the water pump, I didnt have a 9/16 ellen key either

I got a 3/8 bolt (9/16 head) and put 2 nuts on it to lock them together and used that assembly as an adaptor to get it undone

I feel soory for you about the transmission drama, I wouldnt have left it that long though

Worse thing is, would you take it back for warranty if it doesnt work? I wouldnt

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sconut1
Posted 2015-04-17 10:20 PM (#475835 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hi Ttotired.....thanks for the note regarding the transmission. It's an odd situation. The shop I brought the trans to has been in business for almost 38 years. They were a respected shop. Unfortunately, the owner... who appears to be well into his 80s, I think let things get a little out of control. It's funny, as soon as the gentleman he had helping him manage the shop and he himself got busy.... the transmission got done! I'm still a little concerned about how it was put together, but I won't know until I get the car back on the road.

As far as warranty... well, I wouldn't bring it back there, and I can't bring it back there. He's closing his doors. However, I was told, that he knows lots of guys in the business, and in fact, the shop I was going to bring it to when I wanted to pull everything out of there, he knows the owner there well. So, supposedly, if there's issues, I'd bring it to one of those shops, have them call Pete and he'll take care of things.

Am I counting on this.... no. But, I do have home telephone numbers, so it is possible for me to contact folks once the shop closes.

You know, all I can do at this point is cross my fingers and hope everything works.

The car is starting to come together. I'll have some more photos to post by the end of the weekend. I decided not to paint my inner fenders and rad saddle myself. I took a step back, and though I'd have liked to have done this work myself, I just don't have the space in my little garage to do it. I suppose I could have pulled it off, but I felt it better to have a local hot rod shop do the painting for me. I supplied everything but gunwash and sandpaper, and they are charging me $400.00 for labor. I figured that was reasonable as it's allowed me to concentrate on all the little odds & ends I've had to deal with.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-04-27 12:48 AM (#476743 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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So... a few things have happened on with the Fury over the last week or so. I'll just let pictures speak for themselves. I got the rad saddle and left hand inner fender in, the temporary exhaust in on the left side, the breather and the transmission dipstick tube back in, and I re-built both carbs. I installed them on the car today, and for fun, mocked up the rad install and the side-saddle air cleaners



(IMG_1060.JPG)



(IMG_1061.JPG)



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miquelonbrad
Posted 2015-04-28 9:19 PM (#476890 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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WHAT?!!! A FLEX rad hose?! Blasphemy!!
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d500neil
Posted 2015-04-28 9:30 PM (#476892 - in reply to #476890)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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...Not, on a Hot Rod.

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fenix
Posted 2015-04-28 10:28 PM (#476898 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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tell'em to send ya the right rad hose.
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ruchaven
Posted 2015-05-03 3:08 PM (#477249 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hey Gordy; who welded your motor mounts on? I'm not sure if it will pass inspection.

Catch ya later.
Harry
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ruchaven
Posted 2015-05-03 3:11 PM (#477250 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Your doing a fantastic job on your project.

Catch ya later.
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ruchaven
Posted 2015-05-06 12:24 PM (#477472 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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When your rebuilder did your engine, was he really able to maintain the Poly head configuration?. I talked to a mechanic who said if you changed the pistons, it would no longer be a poly engine. I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Catch ya later.
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58coupe
Posted 2015-05-06 4:15 PM (#477485 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Whoever this "mechanic" is, he doesn't know what he is talking about. The poly engines are named that for their polyspherical shaped combustion chamber which has little to do with the pistons. The pistons in this 318 are flat top with 2 valve reliefs. Actually, Chrysler called these engines single rocker shaft as opposed to double rocker shaft. (hemi) Hope I'm not being too critical but there seems to be a lot of misinformation about these Forward Looks.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-05-07 9:14 PM (#477642 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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I assume the comments are regarding my flexible rad hose? LOL. I don't like it either. This was the only thing Rock Auto listed for my car. I did deviate from the original water outlet. I can't get the right outlet, so I had to use one from a '59. That might complicate things for getting the correct hose. The only hose that Rock Auto had available was the one I used. Does anyone know where I can get the right hose and water outlet? The two I have are in horrible condition and I can't use either of them.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-05-07 9:16 PM (#477643 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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On the topic of hoses, does anyone make the hose that goes from the water pump to the intake manifold? I'd prefer a molded hose here... using regular heater hose isn't going to work well for me as the angle is pretty acute.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-05-07 9:36 PM (#477645 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Harry:

Thanks for your comments! Always appreciated and looking forward to seeing you this summer! I think 58 coupe is correct; the poly configuration is based on head design, and has little to do with the pistons. I have what should be correct (thought not Mopar NOS) pistons in this engine. The pistons are for a "regular" 58 318 Poly, but they are not the slightly taller Fury pistons. Some have romanticized the idea of domed pistons, but after having a look at the Fury Restorer's guide, I think the idea of domed pistons was more prevalent in Plymouth's marketing department than in reality. I didn't even bother looking for a set of the "tall" Fury pistons as I assumed that they'd be either unobtainum or super-expensive. I did however, send the cam to Chris Nielson, who ground my cam to his special "Fury" specs, so the engine is as Fury as I could get it while being reasonable. Neil is quite familiar with the taller piston, so I hope he'll comment on this post.

Overall, and I have to apologize for not keeping the photos as current as I'd like to, the car is very close to start up. It will have its hood, and all its fenders on this weekend, and I hope to start it for the first time on Saturday! I should mention I had to go forty over on this engine, so I'm sure that any piston differences will be offset by a few extra cubic inches! I was also quite pleased to find out that Hagerty likes what I'm doing too. I'm supposed to send in photos and promptly enjoy a 40% discount now that the car is no longer considered "modified".
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d500neil
Posted 2015-05-08 2:58 AM (#477667 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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I'm a certified Dodge Boy, but, it it is my understanding that the higher c.r. of the Furys and the D500's was due to
their having physically longer/taller pistons; and, that those pistons are not "domed", but, rather, merely
taller flat-topped pieces.

The 9.25:1 Dodge pistons have valve reliefs in their tops; the 8.50:1 pistons are shorter, and have (-need) no valve
reliefs on their piston tops.



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miquelonbrad
Posted 2015-05-19 9:53 PM (#478865 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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The Chrysler 354 poly pistons are the same way. The 1958 engine is identical to the '57, but has higher output, due to the taller pistons. There isn't a whole lot of difference, but you can see it, comparing them side to side.
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mstrug
Posted 2015-05-20 3:07 AM (#478887 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Rock auto has molded bypass hoses:






4.9L 301cid V8 RSS Feed Save My Place
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Edited by mstrug 2015-05-20 3:10 AM
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sconut1
Posted 2015-06-01 9:50 PM (#480116 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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The finish line....well, almost.

I'll start off with a few photos.....



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Attachments IMG_1068.JPG (196KB - 148 downloads)
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sconut1
Posted 2015-06-01 10:22 PM (#480119 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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There are two things keeping me from completion. As it turns out, I can't use the '58 (for lack of a better term), downshift rod. The "second generation" (my own words), A-488 has quite different downshift rod that the air cooled type, so I had to order one from John Fowlie. It's on the way as I type. Once I install this, I can finish the throttle linkage rod, and I have a functioning gas pedal.

My next issue is the transmission itself. It's taken to barfing fluid out the fill tube. I'd posted something regarding this in the transmission section awhile ago. It's hopefully one of two issues: 1) The vent on the transmission extension is plugged or the gasket used does not have the hole in it for the vent. Interstingly enough, I have a rebuild kit in my possession the Miquelon Brad supplied me and the gasket for the transmission extension in this kit does not have the necessary hole for the breather vent. 2) Being that this transmission is liquid cooled, I felt I should add an external transmission cooler. This didn't exactly fit in with my totally un-modded plans. However, I don't see what else I can do. This transmission was built to be liquid cooled and I didn't think it was a good idea to try running it without any external cooling despite the fact that the car does have the air cooled bell housing and fins on the torque converter. I may have not added this correctly... I might have a pipe with an overly acute bend.... I don't know. Once I have the throttle linkage/shift-down installed, I'll have the car towed to a transmission shop and get them to work out this little issue. I hope it won't be a big deal.... there's just not a lot of point in me continuing to diagnose automatic transmission issues with having limited knowledge about how automatic transmissions work.

That's it.... correct that little kink in the heater line as you can see from one of the pictures, clip back some slightly long wires going to the voltage regulator, install the grill and lower facia and I'm done! Well, done for now.....

The car runs like a top. I couldn't believe how well it started and idled.... and this is before mixture adjustments and timing adjustments! The generator outputs nicely too. My volt meter reads 14.0 volts at idle with no accessories on. Although I'm reasonably happy with my underhood wiring (I still have some "tidy-up" to do with that), the wiring under the dash still isn't wonderful. I'm thinking next year, I'll deal with that and get a whole harness from Gregg Legatt. It's interesting though.... with the new underhood wiring, my turn signals and marker lights are quite a bit brighter than they used to be, and the old setup used an alternator! I think I've probably replaced some old tired wiring and corrected a few grounding issues.

I'm really looking forward (pardon the pun) to getting this car out to the first show of the year!

Edited by sconut1 2015-06-01 10:37 PM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-06-02 12:14 AM (#480125 - in reply to #478865)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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miquelonbrad - 2015-05-19 9:53 PM

The Chrysler 354 poly pistons are the same way. The 1958 engine is identical to the '57, but has higher output, due to the taller pistons. There isn't a whole lot of difference, but you can see it, comparing them side to side.


Here are pics of the factory domed Pistons with valve reliefs cut into them. 58 CDN Dodge Custom Royal. 354 poly.

10.1 to 1 CR , even with that compression, with factory spec'ed timing etc and running on crap gas, these engines don't ping. Great on long trips. I can buy gas from anyone without a problem. Given the choice, I would buy premium name brand stuff --- but, in a pinch, no problem.

ANYWAY, Gord, great photos and thanks for posting. Did you say that you hope to take it to Carlisle this year? Have a great trip and enjoy the show. I have been many times but, sadly, not this year!

Greg



(image.jpg)



(image.jpg)



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Mopar1
Posted 2015-06-02 10:39 AM (#480173 - in reply to #480125)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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LD3 Greg - 2015-06-01 11:14 PM

miquelonbrad - 2015-05-19 9:53 PM

The Chrysler 354 poly pistons are the same way. The 1958 engine is identical to the '57, but has higher output, due to the taller pistons. There isn't a whole lot of difference, but you can see it, comparing them side to side.


Here are pics of the factory domed Pistons with valve reliefs cut into them. 58 CDN Dodge Custom Royal. 354 poly.

10.1 to 1 CR , even with that compression, with factory spec'ed timing etc and running on crap gas, these engines don't ping. Great on long trips. I can buy gas from anyone without a problem. Given the choice, I would buy premium name brand stuff --- but, in a pinch, no problem.

ANYWAY, Gord, great photos and thanks for posting. Did you say that you hope to take it to Carlisle this year? Have a great trip and enjoy the show. I have been many times but, sadly, not this year!

Greg
The early & A Polys are different engines.
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Mopar1
Posted 2015-06-02 10:42 AM (#480175 - in reply to #480119)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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sconut1 - 2015-06-01 9:22 PM

2) Being that this transmission is liquid cooled, I felt I should add an external transmission cooler. This didn't exactly fit in with my totally un-modded plans. However, I don't see what else I can do. This transmission was built to be liquid cooled and I didn't think it was a good idea to try running it without any external cooling despite the fact that the car does have the air cooled bell housing and fins on the torque converter. !
Just depends on weather you want to fry the Tranny or not! Probably best answer would be to add a cooler to the radiator if there's room, if not an aux cooler with its own cooling fan would be the next best choice.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-06-12 12:41 AM (#481206 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Ugg....... and a trip to Carlisle goes down in flames.

Well, not literaly.

On Monday this week, AAA showed up and towed my Fury to a different transmission shop. I was expecting to hear that my puking transmission was the result of an incorrectly vented transmission. Unfortunately, when the trans shop pulled the pan on my freshly rebuild transmission, they found a bunch of metal shavings in the pan after informing me that my car hand no forward gears.


Fuxk.

That's all I gotta say about that. I suppose I should have been expecting it....given the issues I had with the transmission earlier. Unfortunately, even if the new shop can get me going by the end of next week, I can't take the car to Carlisle. It's simply unproven, and there's probably a few nigglies that need to be worked out before the car is ready for any significant road use.

The good news, or well, marginally good news, is that I was able to agree on a settlement for damages from the transmission shop that originally built the transmission. I didn't get what I wanted, but, they say a bird in the hand is better that two in the bush. At least I'll be able to pay for almost all of the labor involved. However, I'm on the hook for all the hard parts.

I'm hoping that if suppliers get stuff to me on time I'll be able to make it to a local car show next weekend, but we'll see. I'll continue to update until the car is 100% complete.

Sigh.
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-06-12 2:57 PM (#481266 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Just out of curiosity and if you care to share more of the story, on what basis is the first shop claiming they don't need to stand behind their work on the transmission?
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sconut1
Posted 2015-06-12 10:27 PM (#481321 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Well, there's a couple of reasons I'm letting them off the hook without complete and absolute responsibility. First, and I never would normally do this, I won't give them the opportunity to fix this. The reason why is this: This thread started with a photo of my transmission in the back of my truck on the way to the transmission shop. I posted this in September, 2014. I've outlined the issues I had with this shop through this thread, but long story short is I got my transmission back the first week of March, 2015. That's six months to put together a transmission, and I offered my help numerous times sourcing new hard parts. At one point, they asked me to find another used transmission which I procured for them and they paid me for.

Long story short, is I don't think I'm out of line refusing to have them do the repair work based on their prior track record of six month turnarounds on jobs that are supposed to take 8.5 hours. Additionally, the reason they asked for the used transmission was not only for parts, but to give them something to look at so they could re-assemble mine. I was in the back of the shop prior to me finding the transmission for them, and I found my transmission scattered all over a workbench, some of it was on the floor, and some of it was in 5 gallon pails.

We've agreed on a settlement for damages which I'll be picking up on Monday. As part of this, I'll need to agree to sign a form that says I won't take further action, which I'm willing to do. I'm just pi$$ed right now over this situation and though I'm not entirely pleased with the settlement, it's probably the best I'll do without small claims court action, and there's no guarantee in court. Basically, lots of cash is what it will take to fix this, and cash is what they're giving me. I just want to move on, get the car done so I can enjoy it this summer. It's possible if Fatsco can ship what the shop tells me they need this week, the car could be done next week. 14 days as opposed to 6 months.



Edited by sconut1 2015-06-12 10:40 PM
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-06-13 7:52 PM (#481392 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Hope it works out well, sounds like it should. I toyed with the idea of having my TF rebuilt since it has a couple minor leaks. The idea was fix it before something breaks and takes out the "hard parts" but I kept having this fear in the back of my mind of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" as well as wondering if they would manage to screw up a perfectly shifting transmission somehow.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-06-15 2:05 AM (#481540 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Thanks for the comments, Jim. I appreciate it. I'll keep everyone apprised here as to what's going on. In fact, I should know quite a bit more tomorrow.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-06-16 11:26 PM (#481749 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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The new shop looked at the transmission. Looks like I need a front pump, and the entire forward clutch assembly and (I forget the name of it), the shaft that the input shaft protrudes through. I ordered all from Fatsco and all the parts should be here tomorrow morning.
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sconut1
Posted 2015-06-28 1:11 AM (#483007 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Well..... another update.

There's a gear behind the front pump that I also needed to order. I checked before I ordered and it is 3/4" of an inch wide. I ordered this, and Fatsco sent me the wrong one. They were good about correcting the error, but now I won't have the gear until Monday. I'm hoping that the shop can have all in good order by Tuesday, as there's a big show on July 1st I'd really like to attend. For now, the car is still at the trans shop.
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sconut1
Posted 2016-05-26 12:36 AM (#512449 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Well, apparently, I've been somewhat negligent in keeping this thread current.....

Thought I'd take some time and finish things off.

Lo-Cost was able to complete my transmission. They did a reasonable job as far as I can tell. I was able to pick up the car once I returned home from Carlisle. Although the car idled like a champ, just smooth and perfect, it a) sounded like an Indian-wagon with my temporary exhaust system, and b) Didn't really run that well when in gear and accelerating. I wasn't surprised at this, as I really hadn't had a chance to do much with fine tuning with the engine at all as I'd been dealing with nothing but transmission issues for weeks.

I'd worked my a$$ off on this car...every day for over six months and in process, injured the rotator cuff in my right shoulder. What was a hobby had turned into a second job and I was a little tired. I brought the car to a local hot-rod shop and had them complete the initial break-in of the poly, to adjust my carburetors and linkages, and get the car to a reliable running state, which they did. More or less, but more on that later.

I couldn't deal with the exhaust on the car, so I took the car into a local muffler shop and had them complete the connection of the old exhaust system to the new engine. This was a little more pricy than I'd expected; there was lots of labor to custom bend the front pipes to the point where the could be connected to the rest of the exhaust system.

One of the things I thought I'd look at while the car was apart was replacing upper control arm bushings. I did so, knowing that I'd need a wheel alignment after. I took the car in to a shop that specialized in alignments. I brought my service manual with me, but they claimed they didn't need it. This turned out to be the most expensive wheel alignment I'd ever had. They spent almost 3 hours on the car, and my bill was over $300.00. They showed me specs, I compared them with my book and they were bang on, with one exception. One measurement was 1/2 a degree off, which they suggested could be frame sag. They said I'd never notice it. They told me they removes a lot of shims. I suppose that's a good thing. What I was rewarded with after all this is a car that drives straight as an arrow. And I run bias-ply tires.

The car in good running and driving (are they ever really done?) on August 14, 2015. I went to a small rural car show (my favorites) to celebrate.

So, first impressions.

From a sheer" is this car enjoyable to drive?" standpoint.... and it's funny, Doc Desoto predicted this before I ever got the car done..... it's a way nicer car to drive now that the 440 is out of it. It feels a bit lighter and more nimble. Certainly, the appearance of the engine compartment is much better.

Power? Jury's still out on that.... not able to properly evaluate. It's a little anemic right now. Coming back from the last car show of the year, I put my foot to the floor and left it there. 90 mph, top speed. Clearly, something's not right. I did a little investigating, and discovered that the front carb is not coming on, at all. I'm a little POed that the speed shop didn't pick this up. I have some issues with the carb linkage, and this will require some more investigation. Something's wrong, but not quite sure what, other than the linkage isn't opening up the carb as far as it should be. I'll work on that one.....

So.....that's the engine swap. I'll post some pics of the car finished, and not in my garage in a few weeks at the first show.

Now.... do I call this post done, or do folks want to hear back about the final power verdict and what I found with the accelerator linkage/kickdown stuff?

Edited by sconut1 2016-05-26 12:50 AM
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soiouz
Posted 2016-05-26 6:31 AM (#512455 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: RE: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Thanks for the update! I'd love to read more, and I look forward to pics of the finished car.
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ttotired
Posted 2016-05-26 5:53 PM (#512511 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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I tried to set mine up like the factory with staged linkages and couldnt get them right, so both my carbs are running the same now

I have 2x 500cfm edelbrocks on mine and I have not messed around with the jetting and its biggest drama is a flat spot when you floor it at low speeds, you really hear those carbs open up, sounds like theyre going to suck the planet in and the other problem was getting it to low idle, I had to screw the idle screws almost all the way in.

Once its up and going (around 30mph) when you stomp on it, it happily picks up its skirts and goes, I havnt tried to peg the speedo yet, but I did get to 100mph pretty quick and it was still wanting to go

Problem around here is the roads that would be good to do this on are well patrolled by the police or have speed cameras on them, so you have to go to lesser roads to have a go and they are a lot more dangerous, so I will probably never see how fast it will go

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matte
Posted 2016-05-26 7:41 PM (#512526 - in reply to #512511)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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ttotired - 2016-05-26 5:53 PM



Once its up and going (around 30mph) when you stomp on it, it happily picks up its skirt and goes..........





Love it!! Never heard that saying before!!

Edited by matte 2016-05-26 7:42 PM
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sconut1
Posted 2016-05-27 9:14 PM (#512631 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Hi Mick.....tell me a story..... What issues did you have with the progressive linkage and what did you end up doing to make it function as it does now? Did you find that linkage travel was a bit short?
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sconut1
Posted 2016-06-06 2:34 AM (#513308 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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As promised....photos of the "finished" car. There's still a few little odds and ends to deal with.... some wiring tidy-up mostly. Here it is:





(IMG_1076.JPG)



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(IMG_1079.JPG)



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60 dart
Posted 2016-06-06 3:58 AM (#513311 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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what master cylinder is that , by the cap it looks gm/corvette ?-------------------------------------later
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ttotired
Posted 2016-06-06 6:09 PM (#513370 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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Problems I had were driveability ones really, it was really quite sluggish and the other problem was getting it to return to idle.

Having 2 springs on the carbies made the pedal very heavy and it was putting a lot of strain on the throttle linkages (remember, mine is RHD), so it just seemed to work a whole lot better to make them operate the same as each other

Part of the sluggish problem can be put down to the kickdown not working properly, once I got that working, it was a lot better, but I havnt tried redoing the carbies to staged since I fixed that

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sconut1
Posted 2016-06-15 8:15 PM (#514256 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


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Chuck..... to be honest, I don't have the first clue where that master came from. It came with the car when I purchased it and I re-used it.

Mick......Hmm......Same issues I've been having. I drove the car a few weeks ago and I adjusted the progressive linkage to where the second carb comes on much earlier. That's really helped, but I need to back that off a little as the second carb is wanting to kick in near 60 mph just holding the gas at a cruising speed. I still think that I might not have the linkage "correct", and that is likely a contributing issue.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-06-15 9:52 PM (#514262 - in reply to #514256)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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I preferred to run my dual quad 392 with fixed linkage (non-progressive). It seemed to run better with better fuel distribution and was easier to tune. It also had more power and didn't use much more fuel if you can tune them properly.
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VAN HELSING
Posted 2016-06-16 10:08 AM (#514302 - in reply to #514256)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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sconut1 - 2016-06-16 12:15 PM

Chuck..... to be honest, I don't have the first clue where that master came from. It came with the car when I purchased it and I re-used it.

Mick......Hmm......Same issues I've been having. I drove the car a few weeks ago and I adjusted the progressive linkage to where the second carb comes on much earlier. That's really helped, but I need to back that off a little as the second carb is wanting to kick in near 60 mph just holding the gas at a cruising speed. I still think that I might not have the linkage "correct", and that is likely a contributing issue.


....

I haven't got a dual carb setup and not familiar with how it's setup OEM but I'd probably be thinking the second carb in a progressive system would certainly be starting to open, at least on the primaries, before it got near 60 MPH, that is if I'm understanding correctly what you are trying to say?.


....

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VAN HELSING
Posted 2016-06-16 10:11 AM (#514303 - in reply to #514302)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318



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........

Forgot to add......

Nice looking job on the car BTW, I like it.


......
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gradford
Posted 2018-06-12 3:25 AM (#565067 - in reply to #457120)
Subject: Re: Goodbye 440....hello A block 318


Member

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The master cylinder looks like late 70s Jeep.
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