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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Now it's mine. I know - there will be truck loads of work to rebuild it to the state this car deserves. Happy Motoring! Dieter http://www.ebay.com/itm/301508105713 |
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Location: The Mile High City | That will be a nice F! Congratulations, Dieter. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7285
Location: northern germany | congratulations! looks like a nice car.
i do not know if it matters to you but if the car was build in january and the engine january 22 its probably not the original engine. usually the so date and engine date are about 30 days apart.
at least on regular 60/61 fl's. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 983
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ...........
Here's the click and go link
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-Chrysler-300-034-F-034-Letter-Car-Barn...
............ |
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Location: Michigan | Congrats D! |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | What a great surprise Dieter! Congrats to the "new" F car - the top of the 300's |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: Georgia | Congrats Dieter! I lusted over that auction as well, and I'm glad she's going to a good home.
Keep us updated with your progress.
Pete |
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Location: North Australia | You lucky Dog Deiter! Now you have a car from both ends of the FL era 
Well done, great score.
Steve. |
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Location: Williams California | Congratulations, Dieter, Looks like a good car to work with!!! |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hola all Thank you very much for all your coments and congratulations. I appreciate it very much. Today I contacted the seller with my wish to get a picture of the license plate at the a pillar and the engine number at the boss above the water pump. As a 12 to 13 year old I was more than one time passenger in my 25 yo neighbors his wonderful red '67 Plymouth Fury III 2d hardtop (383 Super Commando engine w/ dual exhaust). It was that impressive to me that I'm addicted in Mopars, now especially FLK mopars. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Early this morning I got the link to the photobucket basket with about 140 pictures. From what I can on the parts desk and the pictures of the eninge bay it's almost for sure that the engine is frozen. The complete engine and carburettors are corroded. The hand brake drum has been removed as well as the lower cover of the torque converter and the starter motor with burnt wires. it needs a full restoration for sure. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | 1960fury - 2015-02-04 12:47 AM congratulations! looks like a nice car. i do not know if it matters to you but if the car was build in january and the engine january 22 its probably not the original engine. usually the so date and engine date are about 30 days apart. at least on regular 60/61 fl's. You might be right. From the pictures I got I assume the engine was stored under clear sky with no protection. The seller confirmed that the engine doesn't turn over. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: Småland Sweden | Congrat´s to a great car at a great price! Even if it needs some tune up  I am also a lucky owner of a 300 F.
Jan in Sweden (friend to Sven) |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7194
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Great find, at a good price for a restorable 300-F.
For what it's worth, the Chrysler 300 Club has a free download of the 1960 Chrysler and Imperial Ross Roy Data Book, but for some reason it doesn't cover the 300.
The link is here http://chrysler300clubinc.com/1960rossroy.pdf |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19171
Location: bishop, ca | Dieter, on your 67 Plymouth, did it have the rounded 'Sports 'top, or did it have the angled Pagoda-type roof?
Those were nice, well built automobiles!!
Do you have any photos of it? |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | d500neil - 2015-02-06 9:54 PM Dieter, on your 67 Plymouth, did it have the rounded 'Sports 'top, or did it have the angled Pagoda-type roof? Those were nice, well built automobiles!! Do you have any photos of it? Hi Neil I'm afraid I do not have a picture. At that time I was a boy and the neighbor was a young adult. It was his car. Yes the roof was like every MoPar (Ply/Do) in 1967 had. Even the 1967 Dodge Coronet had the same roofline. I just could have a look at e.g. classic car trader to see if I'll find a similar car. Happy Motoring Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-02-08 4:43 AM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | imopar380 - 2015-02-06 7:41 PM Great find, at a good price for a restorable 300-F. For what it's worth, the Chrysler 300 Club has a free download of the 1960 Chrysler and Imperial Ross Roy Data Book, but for some reason it doesn't cover the 300. The link is here http://chrysler300clubinc.com/1960rossroy.pdfHello Ian Thank you very much for your information (Ross Roy Data Book). It's very helpful. I assume it's possible that it doesn't cover the 300 F because the 300 F was IMHO not available from the very beginning of the model year. I was keeping an eye to your Saratoga as well for a certain time. The trigger to wake up my interest on a 1960 Chrysler woke up when I had the opportunity to drive Sven's Saratoga behind the steering wheel. When I was a boy decades back I was passing a 1961 or 1962 Chrysler everey Wednesday during school time while walking to my Grand Mam's to get lunch. Long time at youtube I was watching 1961 and 1961 hardtops. For me it was sunny clear to get a hardtop again. As time was passing by the front end of the 1960 became more and more attractive. Finally the F became my dream car. I don't know when exactly, but not many weeks ago I told my friend (Sven) that I know I'll get a 300 F within a time span of 10 years. How I got the F I could write PM if you're interested. Kind regards Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | 60Mopars - 2015-02-06 3:34 PM Congrat´s to a great car at a great price! Even if it needs some tune up I am also a lucky owner of a 300 F. Jan in Sweden (friend to Sven ) Hello Jan Thank you very much for your message. I assume it's your's F (Looking for information about a white F conv. from Texas)? During the last call we had (Sven and I) whe were eloberating the way how to get my Letter back to the road. At this time he told me about his project and within this he mentioned you as an owner of an F as well. I'm more than very impressed about the work of Jan Fridberg. There is not that much rust preset as on convertibles of the same model year. I assume the trunk floor needs to be replaced as well as the area of the floor very close to the rockers. Who knows if there would be an opportunity to meet you. Kind regards Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hola friends I reduced the size of some more pictures. What I got out as well is that my Letter was owned by a Doctor in 1974. The title was belonging to a guy in Pachevo and issued in 2008. The actual seller bought it May 2014. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Finally it's completely mine. Today I got the confirmation of the bank wire transfer. The transportation I ordered. Now it's just a matter of time until my Letter will be at me. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | di_ch_NY56 - 2015-02-08 12:44 AM
imopar380 - 2015-02-06 7:41 PM Great find, at a good price for a restorable 300-F. For what it's worth, the Chrysler 300 Club has a free download of the 1960 Chrysler and Imperial Ross Roy Data Book, but for some reason it doesn't cover the 300. The link is here http://chrysler300clubinc.com/1960rossroy.pdfHello Ian Thank you very much for your information (Ross Roy Data Book). It's very helpful. I assume it's possible that it doesn't cover the 300 F because the 300 F was IMHO not available from the very beginning of the model year. I was keeping an eye to your Saratoga as well for a certain time. The trigger to wake up my interest on a 1960 Chrysler woke up when I had the opportunity to drive Sven's Saratoga behind the steering wheel. When I was a boy decades back I was passing a 1961 or 1962 Chrysler everey Wednesday during school time while walking to my Grand Mam's to get lunch. Long time at youtube I was watching 1961 and 1961 hardtops. For me it was sunny clear to get a hardtop again. As time was passing by the front end of the 1960 became more and more attractive. Finally the F became my dream car. I don't know when exactly, but not many weeks ago I told my friend (Sven) that I know I'll get a 300 F within a time span of 10 years. How I got the F I could write PM if you're interested. Kind regards Dieter
I always wanted a 300-F as well, but I am very happy with the Saratoga, and was not ready to do a complete restoration of a car, and nice 300-Fs was out of my price range. SO as it turned out, the Saratoga fit my purposes, with some minor and medium issues to deal with, but no body work or upholstery needed. It's still a work in progress but I enjoy driving it , and have put 22,000 miles on it since 2008. We'll be taking it on another road trip this summer to a WPC Meet in Oregon, in the US. about a day's drive from here. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hello Ian Thank you very much for your answer. Always good luck with your Saratoga - I know it's very similar to the 300 F (with the exception of the trim, interior and the engine). Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I'm asking for a drive shaft for my Letter car. Thre is a drive shaft for the 1960 Windsor, Saratoga and New Yorker with the parts number 1856 933 that doesn't fit. For PP2, PD4 /w 85 manual trans, /w high performance, Sub., PP2, PD4, /w 3-spd Auto. Trans. Sub., PCH-300, All 1856 931. This drive shaft fits to my Letter car and Plymouth, DOdge with Sonoramic intake system. I wish to get a drive shaft with the 1856 933 number. Thank you. Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I'm still seeking a drive shaft for my Letter. It's really awful - nobody answered. For the drive shaft I got some more information regarding the cars used at.
- 1960 Dodge D500 (/w 383 and ram induction)
- 1960 Plymouth with the Sonoramic commando (383 /w ram induction)
- 1960 Chrysler 300 F
- 1961 Plymouth /w 318 and Torque Flite or heavy duty 3 speed manual transmission - but beware there are to different sizes of B/T (I guess) used under the same parts number (2 3/4" and 3
1/4"). The 1961 Plymouth /w Power Flite used the standard 1960 drive shaft (1856 933 instead of 1856 931 like the 3 speed auto and 3 speed heavy duty manual).
I think there must be some cars lying around...
BTW the u-joint is the same on all 1960 cars from ChryCo. I assume the difference is the diameter of the drive shaft or the thickness of the wall of the drive shaft. I assume the 1960 Chrysler
used the 3 1/4" B/T. Kind regards Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The drive shaft I'm seeking (1856 931) was used in 1959 as well. Following cars with this configuration were equipped with the same drive shaft. MP2 Plymouth with V8 engines (Belvedere, Savoy), MP2 Sub (Belvedere, Savoy Suburban) with V8 and Torqueflite MD2 Dodge Coronet with V8 and Torqueflite MD3 Dodge Royal, Custom Royal all or with Powerflite MS1 De Soto Firesweep with V8 and Powerflite All in all I assume there were few thousends of this drive shaft with the 3 1/4" b/t produced. I'm rather sure some of these cars are lying around in junk jards, e.g. with no engine and eventually no transmission but with the drive shaft still in the car. Kind regards Dieter
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Location: little rock, AR | I have a '61 4dr sedan 318/PF car. Will this car have the shaft your looking for??? |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | oldwood - 2015-03-01 9:50 PM I have a '61 4dr sedan 318/PF car. Will this car have the shaft your looking for??? Hi Thank you for your response and answer. I'm afraid no, the '61 318/PF (Powerflite car) had a different drive shaft (1856 963) with the smaller ball/trunion. Kind regards Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Since yesterday (March, Tuesday, 10th, 2015) 4:53 p.m. PST my Letter is on the way to NYC. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great news Dieter, keep us updated |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I just had a phone call with a member of our forum. He was the meaning I purchased a convertible. It's not, it's a Coupe. I like the two door hardtop very much. I know it will be a long way to bring it back to close to concours state. But it's worth to do it. Happy Motoring! Dieter BTW: at the picture you could recognise 15 inch wheels at the rear axle. Big thank you to the seller who noticed it and replaced the wheels with the wheels of a 1965 L parts car with better tires.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I assume the car hauler follows mostly or directly the Interstate 80 from San Francisco to Newark/New York City. At the loading point my Letter was on the roof rack (top front position) if anybody would spot the car hauler. Any picture of car hauler or car spotters are highly appreciated. Thank you! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-03-14 6:30 AM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This morning I got the message from the shipping company, that my Letter has arriven in NYC and is already loaded into a container. I'm waiting for pictures they promised. The departure of the vessel is scheduled for March, 25th --- this year . Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | Must be very exciting for you
I might go down this road myself one day, but only if after the car purchase, I survive
My wife would not be happy
Wives arnt rare 
Good luck
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you Mike Today I got the link from the seller with the picture collection at photo bucket. From there I took some and resized it. I'm so happy I get it with a drive shaft. I looks like it's the stock drive shaft. Please enjoy the pictures Take care, Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | My Letter is on the vessel now since March 28th. The vessel heads to Bremerhaven in Germany where it should arrive at the end of calendar week 15. In Switzerland the manager of the shipping company (sea fright) expects it at the end of calender week 16 or beginning of calender week 17. Calendar week 17 is exactyl the week I planned to pick up my Beast (Chrysli) at Wizard's.... I hope I'll have a save ride back home (1500 km/ 932 mi within two days). From calendar week 23 on I got space in a storage location for both of my FLK cars. During my season holiday I plan to start with the disassemblage of the small parts like lights, bumpers, grille, radiator and so on... Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great news Dieter - I really look forward to see that car! |
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Nice project 300F, ho you bought. Hope to see more pics when it comes home. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you very much to my friends in Sweden. Today - few minutes ago - I got the confirmation that my Letter would ride inside the container until it's in Basel. Even though the container will be unloaded from the vessel in Bremerhaven, Germany. Happy Easter Season! Dieter BTW: from the original sized pictures (e.g. 1110) I could recognise that even the starter motor is still attached to the bellhouse and that both exhaust pipes are looking more like cut than broken after the bandage. Nice to see are the lines of the transmission cooler forth and back to the transmission and - I've never saw a reinforced rear suspension on a 300 F like my Letter shows. The reinforcement looks more like from an Imperial or a station wagon with special order. I don't know if there was a special option available like that for a 300 F/G. I try to keep it like it is, but refreshed, freed from rust and recolored.
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-04-03 1:55 PM
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Location: Småland Sweden | I bet you are counting the days until you can pick it up. My F also has something similar on the rear springs. Don´t know if it´s some aftermarket stuff or not. Maybe you can take a look at my F when you´re going to Sven to pick up your 56? I live about an hour or so from Sven. My F is a coupé partially restored to a nice driver 25 years ago.
Happy Easter!
Jan |
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Location: Arizona | Part of that extra stuff is aftermarket helper springs.
http://www.amazon.com/Superior-11-1020-Helper-Spring-Capacity/dp/B0... |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | 60Mopars - 2015-04-02 8:59 PM I bet you are counting the days until you can pick it up. My F also has something similar on the rear springs. Don´t know if it´s some aftermarket stuff or not. Maybe you can take a look at my F when you´re going to Sven to pick up your 56? I live about an hour or so from Sven. My F is a coupé partially restored to a nice driver 25 years ago. Happy Easter! Jan Hi Jan Thank you very much. I was discussing with Sven about a visit to yours. I'm interested so see your F as well. I don't know if the picture I got from Sven few weeks ago with his JoseFin, a white 57 or 58 Plymouth convertible, a white F and a red or brown 60 or 61 Plymouth station wagon in front of his home - the F is yours? The picture was taken back in May 2010. Actually the most difficult part to find or get are new or NOS brake return springs for 3 platform 12" brakes for all four corners. ----> but I found a source.... Kanter. I ordered a set and I'll see if they would fit... Happy Easter to you as well! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-04-06 2:51 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | jimntempe - 2015-04-03 1:16 AM Part of that extra stuff is aftermarket helper springs. http://www.amazon.com/Superior-11-1020-Helper-Spring-Capacity/dp/B0...Thanks a lot. Yes these helper springs are looking quite similar. I don't know why there are helper springs installed. Might be that one owner wanted to get a firmer ride. But in my opinion it doesn't make sense without reinforcing the front suspension (e.g. thicker torsion bars and / or stronger sway bar). Happy Easter! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Actually the vessel it at Rotterdam since April 7th, 23:15h UTC. The draught from New York to Amsterdam was 9.6 meter. From Amsterdam to Rotterdam 10.6 meter. Actually the labor workers at Rotterdam port apparently are unloading some containers. The current draught is 10.1 meter. Planned is that the container containing my Letter will be unloaded from the vessel in Bremerhaven and the container is expected in Switzerland between April 17th and April 21th. It's exactly the day I'll take the airplane to Kobenhagen to enter the train to visit Wizard. I think I'm going to ask if the shipping company will keep my Letter until I'm back in Switzerland (around April 24th or 25th). Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Finally the vessel has arriven Bremerhaven. Now the employees are unloading the containers from the vessel. I hope with no damage because IMHO the employees are very experienced. I'm very eager to see my Letter. But I got a time conflict with my journey to Sven. I hope I could visit the shipping company prior or after the journey to be at the company when they are unloading my Letter. Take care my friends, Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-04-09 5:40 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | A wonderful movie about my Letter - Bob Rodger, Chef Engineer is introducing the 300 F. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9rHA-1BiCQ Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | d500neil - 2015-02-06 9:54 PM Dieter, on your 67 Plymouth, did it have the rounded 'Sports 'top, or did it have the angled Pagoda-type roof? Those were nice, well built automobiles!! Do you have any photos of it? Hi Neil Specially for you I searched for 1967 Plymouth Fury III. Instead I got pictures of a 1967 Sport Fury (floor mounted shifter instead of a steering column mounted shifter of the TorqueFlite). But IMHO the body is the same from what I'm remembering. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | My Letter is now in Switzerland. This morning I got the original title and the message from the shipping company, that my Letter is available to pick up at any time (during business hours I assume). It's just a matter of time until the road assistance company (where my former neighbor is employed at) will find time to transport it to me. Happy Motoring, Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-04-27 6:10 AM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | Your like an expectant father
I hope it all turns out excellent for you
I was the same waiting for my dodge to turn up
Edited by ttotired 2015-04-27 6:24 AM
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Dieter,
Congratulations!
Are any of the parts from a '62 regular 300 hardtop shared with yours? I am parting out one, so if you need anything, let me know. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you Brad for your offer. I'll see what is common and what I need starting at June 2015. Do you have time to wait a little bit? Today I met my Letter. It is packed in plastic to protect it. Through the plastic I noticed that the drivers door window is closed and at the trunk lid the medaillon is missing. It was present at the time of the loading in San Jose. Because it is packed in plastic and one (most probabely the upper one) door hinge is missing at the drivers door I couldn't get access to the passenger compartment to look after it. I give a very low chance that the medaillon is in the car... but it could be that it got lost during the transport on the car hauler (low chance). The fuel neck door at the back works better than in my Beast (no squeezing). The metal sheet under the door looks like new. From the seller I got the message that one door hinge was bent. He removed it and didn't get a replacement in the right time. But he could get it either and will send it to me. Happy Motoring! Dieter BTW: Stealing people (thieves) are no friends at all
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-04-28 5:50 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Brad I was just walking through your photo album you linked to your message. Thank you very much. For the engine I expect the same for my Letter as you did for your 57 Windsor. I'll start over with the checking of the electric functions, the levels (oil, transmission, brake main cylinder and p/s pump) and after that I'll start with the engine. First I'll try a 50% mixture out of acetone and transmission fluid (synthetic) into all cylinders and let it sit for e.g. a week. Then I'll try if I can break it loose and turn it over with a wrench and socket after I removed all belts and - at least - the fan with the thermo coupling. I don't think that I could start the engine judging from the pictures of the carbs. I assume these would not work either. Happy Motoring! Dieter BTW: If it would run I assume it would be a oil sucking monster... with cylinder walls like these in the engine shown in your album. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Right now I think I'm condemned with that car. The transport for example goes slower than honey poured through a funnel than 50 grade engine oil. I'm judging if I'll keep it or should get rid of it. Happy Motoring Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today the transport from the shipper to a temporary storage (under a big roof) is going on. I'm rather excited. I'll check some things and take some pictures to post here. Sometimes happens anything unexpected and most times it turns out to be a fortune. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: SWITZERLAND | "Sometimes happens anything unexpected and most times it turns out to be a fortune . . . . . . . . Dieter, because you are a lucky men! - SERGE - |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks sermey. Today I sat the first time in my Letter. Because there was almost no brake power I pulled stronger and fell through. My maximum power in my legs is about 320 lbs. I cleaned the tach (oil and grime on the glass) the glass of the astrodome. Then I collected the rest or residues of the rotten cover of the pre pre owner who stored the Letter outside for about six years. During this time, because this guy forgot about the Letter, he destroyed at least 15k to 25k of the value of the Letter. It's his bad luck. With some water of my mouth and a towel I cleaned two small areas of the cross ram intake. It seems it was not bright red but gold-red colored... The carb linkage is frozen as well. With my fingers I checked the inner rockers. There is no hole and the sheet metal feels solid - as well as the floor of the trunk. I didn't check the floor on the drivers side due to the limited place (temporary storage). About the trunk ornament. It is not in the car. From the condition of the trunk lid I could imagine that it got lost during the transport on the hauler. The back was in the wind. Both doors are hanging badly and needs to be lifted at the door lock escutcheon. Both door locks do not engage. For the keys I have to seek in the boxes the seller provided. Some surprises appeared when I opened the center console bin. The last driver of the Letter apparently was a smoker.... There are truck loads of work needed for this car. I've never ever bought a car in this conditon like my Letter. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Hi Dieter, you have some work ahead of you there for sure!! If you can't find the keys to this magnificent car, I can make them up if you send me the locks, if no one in Germany wants to do it!! |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you very much Ian. I was just seeking through all six boxes the seller loaded. I took out the 7 button radion (Golden Tone), the LH kick panel and described the main content onto the box. With no key it's impossible to remove the ignition lock from the ignition switch and as far as I know (from my Beast) the ignition key fits the doors and the ignition lock while the smaller one is only for the trunk (eventually for the glove box as well). I appreciate your invitation to send the locks - or at least the ignition lock/switch combo to you as far as I'll start with disassembling. I assume it's later this year or at least later than 1st of June. My biggest project for the moment is or should be finding a new job... Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7194
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Dieter, yes, the ignition and the door should be the same key, trunk and glove box are the secondary key. I can make the ignition key without having to remove the cylinder from the switch. The easiest way to get the switch out is remove the radio speaker grille ( 4 screws on top) and unplug the switch, and unscrew the ring from the front of the dash, and pull the switch out through the speaker hole. ....if it comes to the point where you can't find the keys! |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you very much Ian. If it helps I could provide a picture with the soft case and all keys to your WPC address - or if you PM me your private mail address. The radio is out of the car and laying in my living room, because it was in one of six boxes the seller filled. I double checked the content of the boxes, but found all other tid bits (e.g. the chrome trim not mounted, a voltage device for the astra dome, ...) than the keys. There is no way to remove the igniton switch from the bottom like in a 1956 Chrysler? Kind regards Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I got the keys. The soft cover was in the car cover inside the Letter. The seller put the fabric car cover over the seats to hide the long stainless steel side trim inside the passenger room. I rolled it over back to the passenger back seat. Kind regards, Dieter BTW: there are four keys. Two of them (the smaller not original, aluminum aftermarket, the bigger with a Dodge D500 emblem on one side) were fitting the ignition lock and the glove box lock. The other two are apparently from another car. They show a different pattern. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7285
Location: northern germany | di_ch_NY56 - 2015-05-13 1:16 PM
With no key it's impossible to remove the ignition lock from the ignition switch
okay you got the keys but its VERY easy to pick these ignition locks. takes seconds with a home made tool. my 61 and 59 had no keys either, i picked/pulled the locks and played around with the tumblers (using some spare locks for parts) to make them fit to some extra keys i had. less than an hour work. unfortunately that does not work with the glove/trunk locks. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | While I was at my Letter to find the keys I moved the fabric car cover out of the Letter to gain access to the rear seats. The rear seats are very convinient. The rear bin contains a really big amount of small screws, small washers and more partially rusted hardware. I just wonder where all these parts were coming from (belonging to the car or not). |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I visited my Letter again. Still I couldn't open the cover of the p/s pump. IMHO it's frozen by rust. The oil level of the engine is little above high and smelling really rotten. It has a 50/50 milk/coffee color. The level of the iron hog is above full as well (no wonder it sat that long - the torque converter drained for sure). The color is light red like in my Beast, but smells slightly metallic, but not burnt. The upper part of the exhaust block of plate has eaten by rust at the drivers side. I couldn't get access to the plate at the passenger side. That means noise and exhaust gases in the motor bay if the engine would run... The carburettors are frozen as well. My target it to keep the thermo coil choke mechanism. So I'll take care not to brake off the lever from the thermo coil to the carb at the base in the coil case. IMO these mechanism are really difficult to get... The rubber covers (block off rubber) at the inner fenders are not present at all. The original color of the inner fender was the body color, but eaten by the environmental elements. The primer was possibly black or there the body color was the second layer above the primer and black. At the passenger side there are no more leafs of trees between the engine, iron hog and firewall. I front of the radiator (splash shield?) I got two empty wasps' nest. The vacuum lines are that old that the fall apart at the slightest touch. The lines apparently do not like sun rays. The vacuum tank below the battery tray is not present, but in one of the six boxes the seller provided. When the engine is under restoration I assume I need all the brackets for routing the spark wires, too. I saw an example at the Chrysler 300 Club tech page. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | The vacuum reserve tank for the power brake on a 1960 Chrysler generally is mounted behind the driver's side headlight, inside the fender, not under the battery tray. At least that is where it is on mine from factory. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you very much Ian. At the place you addressed I didn't check. I just noticed that the vacuum hose is routed along the inner fender, but not loose at the end. The hose disappears near the radiator yoke. Edit: I grabbed with my hands below the battery tray. I just thought at that time that there it might be not enough space for a canister with the same size like in my Beast (56 NY). Happy Motoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2015-05-14 1:31 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7194
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | It's a possibility that some were mounted under the battery tray. That's where it is on my ex- 1960 Polara. There were running production changes, and my Saratoga is very early production ( Oct 1959). |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I visited my Letter again. First I adjusted the drivers door. Because I couldn't open the door fully I did not have access to the screws at the A pillar (at least one screw is not mounted!). Instead I had to go almost beyond the limit to lift up the rear end of the door to fit the lock. Now the lock works again and keeps the door closed, but the front end is about 1/10" too low. The next work was to mount two hex nuts on both front wheels. Good luck I got some spare lug nuts (LH and RH). Now all five lug nuts are mounted. Then I emptied the rear and the front center console. All the hardware I put in empty jam glasses. The sun glass, the plasic forks, the matches I threw away. Next work was removing of the belts in the motor bay. The alternator and the p/s pump are turning by hand. The p/s pump has slight resistance, when cranking the clockwise rotation. That means there is fluid in the reservoir and the p/s pump starts to build pressure. At the Letter are three different sizes of tires mounted. Rear LH: 205/75R14, front LH: 205/75R14 front RH: 215/75R14 and rear RH: 195/75R14. Yes, the vaccum tank is in the drivers side fender, vertically mounted. I tested the body for rust and found some between the door and the wheel arch (quarter panel) at the conjuction of the body shell and the rocker at the drivers side. The passenger side quarter panels shows some bubbles in the paint layer... The floor of the trunk shows some spots (rusting through). Generally the floor panel is rather thin. In the front center console there were the knobs of the Golden Tone receiver - heavily pitted / corroded. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The trunk lid insert or ornament pkg 2196 661 has gone during the transport on the car hauler between San Jose and NY harbor. I hope once I'll find a nice replacement for it. Any help is highly appreciated. Thank you [Edit:]The pictures show my Letter after the arrival at NY harbor. [Edit2:] On the roof there are some really small areas with the original white color. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I checked the electric wiring again. Good luck all head lights are working and the position lights as well. That the directional signal works partially. I only could recognse it at the ampere display of the laboratory power supply I adjusted to 14.4V and 15A. The current jumps up and down with a 0.5A peak to peak value with the clock of the direction signals. That could mean that the flasher relais is working, but the contacts in the direction switch have a very high transition resistance. When I turn the steering wheel I could also hear a click, but the direction switch doesn't go back to the neutral position (both sides). Now the radio button array of the heater switch is working a little bit better and now both speeds of the fan are working. Two of four switches for the power windows in the center console do not engage the down movement of the drivers door window and the passenger side quarter window. 15A limit is not enough to move the windows but enough to check the funtion. All switches are keeping the position - they are not jumping back when I release my finger. The power window switches need a full restoration as well. Only the primary side of the ignition resistor has voltage (about 13.8V from 14.4V at the battery cables). The secondary side of the resistor is at zero. I'll replace it... Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The direction switch has a locking elecro magnet Dieter, probably the switch is binding due to dried out greas and old dust and dirt. Remove the cancel switch and keep it in a safe Place but leave the direction switch in Place until you/we remove the dashboard. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | wizard - 2015-05-22 8:56 PM The direction switch has a locking elecro magnet Dieter, probably the switch is binding due to dried out greas and old dust and dirt. Remove the cancel switch and keep it in a safe Place but leave the direction switch in Place until you/we remove the dashboard. Hi Wizard Am I correct that the cancel switch can only be removed when I prepare to remove the AstaDome (e.g steering wheel, all the covers until I get access to the lower screws of the AstraDome)? Happy Motoring! Dieter BTW: I noticed at the technical section that the cancel switch has two crab arms that could break very easy.... I'll take extra care |
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Location: Minor Hill, TN | After I wrecked my 1957 plymouth back in 1987 that was the 1st forward look car I looked but it was a green 2drht with a 383. I remember it has ps,pb and it was a local car. I wish I grabbed it when I had the chance but oh well some one else got it. This was when I was living in Palm Bay, FL . |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Nope Dieter - the cancel switch is easily removed further down the steering column - look and you'll see it - mounted with one Phillips screw.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday I noticed that the chrome trim at the passenger side on the roof channel is missing. It was missing at the sellers place as well. It's the chrome trim at the water channel above the door and quarter window. So I'm seeking this piece, too. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The last week over I managed to remove the spark plugs of the cylinders 1, 3, 2, 4. I was applying torque to the wrench very slow. The spark plugs came out like on a almost new car. The tips of the spark plugs were looking quite good. Only the spark plug of cylinder 1 had some debris around the insulator. Yesterday I mounted the spark plugs again and tightened it only by hand. That's enough to keep the holes closed.The boots of the spark plug wires are quite soft. That surprises me... Then I filled alomst an inch of transmission fluid into both carburettors. The only parts moving at the carburetors are the vacuum controlled valves in the secondary channel. I put some drops of transmission fluid to the threads of the mounting bolts of both carburettors as well as the connection of the throttle linkage at the carburetors. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I proceeded another test with my laboratory power supply. The instruments are lighting up as well depending on the rotation of the light switch. When rotating the knob from one stop to the other many times over a large sector the instruments are dark. Between they are lighting up. Over the last few weeks... I could also remove the resting four spark plugs to fill in an acetone/atf mixture. But the engine is still frozen. The front drums are off now, for the rear drum I purchased a set of metric machine hex sockets to drive the puller with a impact wrench. All the door and quarter panels are off now, At the passenger door there is still the water barrier mounted. The transmission is not the original transmission. It's a 1949 904 instead of a 1949 808. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I checked the electric functions again by night. After sweeping the brightness adjuster forth and back for many times it works now like new. The astro dome looks so wonderful by night. But only about half an hour. I assume it's the capacitor in the high voltage supply. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Finally I removed both cylinder heads to inspect the walls of the cylinders. Several times I filled in a 50/50 mixture out of Dextron III and Acetone with the hope I could break free the frozen engine. Cylinder # 5 and # 7 are showing evidence of that action. From what I could see I assume the piston of the cylinder # 1 has sized due to a break of the lubrification layer. What surprises me is that the distributor gear still has rests of grease at the gears and distributor shaft. This engine nees a long block restoration. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: Minor Hill, TN | Good luck with the restoration |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you. Today I removed the outer and inner sill plates plus the rear seats and the rear center console. All four windows are down at the lower stop now. From my test of the eletric wiring at night a picture plus a picure of the missing parts. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great Dieter - keep the objective, this will be a nice car! |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | In the mean time I removed the seats (including the front seat frame) Prior to remove the front seat frame I had to remove the center console (first the rear part, then the front part). To remove the carpet I had to remove several screws holding the isolation and the carpet in place. Under the aluminum rails at the floor is the seam of the carpet of the center console. Under the bitumen sheet at the front passenger side I found the broad cast sheet. Unfortunately iti's not in the condition I expected. Next work will be the removal of the dash board... Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 375
Location: milano, italy | Dieter,I think I have some extra parts that I can give you ....maybe they are in better shape...like radio knob and who knows what....
Love the lighted astradome.... |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you Antonello. I think we will stay in contact. Do you agree? Unfortunately I cracked the drivers side exhaust manifold. I plan to send it to Germany to a specialist (cast iron welding company). From what I could read from the Chrysler 300 Club International forum, many members got mixed feelings about SMS. John L. and others and Ian (here) are proposing Gary Goers. The best way to get the order fullfilled (my experience) is sending a facsimile and send the amount via paypal. I'm using a free fax service at the States. Take care, Dieter
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | Good luck with a Project Dieter! Looks pretty much similar with my G-project.
If you find correct materials for the interior, vinyl, leateher and basket wave material (Jan Friedberg in Sweden makes aluminium inserts) some good upholstery shop can make you an interior.
Design in F is not just that compilcated that you have to rely on Gary Goers or SMS and wait for the ages. Anyway someone had to make door panels.
I hope you still have them in Switzerland. I can only recommend those I've used in Finland but I have heard that there are many auto upholstery shops in the Baltic countiries who make good show quality with low prices.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Few weeks/months ago I removed the starter motor out of my Letter. Today I scratched all old color and dirt away from it to read the parts number. What I'm puzzled: it's a 1889 100. According the 1960 parts book it should be a 1889 200 starter motor. What's different between these two starter motors? - the power rating is the same - the count of teeth of the drive is the same So it could only be the distance of the drive pinion either of the axle distance to the crank shaft or the depth compared to the flange of the bellhouse. Any suggestions? The drive pinion looks good - no wonder, the engine is still frozen and I didn't try to crank it with the starter motor. Dieter |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: milano, italy | Dieter, I placed an order for the seat covers with Doug at SMS...should be ready for end of january. I doubt very much about completion date...but will keep you updated. Goers never replied about price questions, as usual. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | antonellomopar - 2016-01-02 10:52 PM Dieter, I placed an order for the seat covers with Doug at SMS...should be ready for end of january. I doubt very much about completion date...but will keep you updated. Goers never replied about price questions, as usual. Thank you very much for your update Antonello. Happy New Year! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Over the last few weeks I did only small things at my Letter. Like removing the Astrodome, mounting the rear brake pads, brake drums and wheels. I cleaned the cylinder wall (where the piston is not at TDC) with diesel. I plan to try to unlock the engine with diesel over the next few weeks. If I don't succeed I'll remove the oil pan and remove the caps of the connection rods to free each piston alone. Sometimes I think I'm overextended with my skills to do all the works necessary to bring my Letter back to the road alone. Happy Motoing! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | There are not many things missing but what I still searching and hope to find are... - trunk lid ornament (300F) - gutter rails LH and RH Other than these parts my junked 300F (the Letter) is complete. Any offers about parts above are always welcome. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the fan, the pulley and the water pump. It looks like a very powerful waterpump. In my opinion it's worth to restore, because the impeller is out of cast iron. The fan and the pulley are in an astonishing good condition as well. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the water pump case and cleaned the charcoal like stuff out of the area between the impeller and the case of the water pump. Now it cranks again. What that black, charcoal like looking, stuff is - I don't know. It could either be rests of a coolant sealer or exhaust gas emitting from the cylinder #1 to the cooling circuit. The coolant temperature sender shows 47k Ohm at ambient and about 11 k Ohm at above 90 degree Celsius (195 C Fareheit). I cleaned the connector of the sender with sandpaper prior to measure. For my taste the readings of the resistance is ways too high. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | It's amazing that a car so great could be neglected for so long. It does look better than the rust bucket I had in 1989. In that case, the owner had the engine apart and laying out in his backyard including having the heads off and intakes and carbs laying about. My second one that I got last week is way better but still needs work but it's a driver and pretty complete. Hoping to get the dash lighting working this weekend and see if the fuel gauge is ruined from a previous owner hooking it up wrong.
Here is my old one. Not great pictures but all I have as the camera with the good pictures was stolen before I could get the film developed.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Nick
Thank you very much for your post. I was a frequent visitor at your site (nicksgarage) as well to check the histories of all 300F you found or got the information about it. When I purchased mine (at e-pain) I was not sure if you'll catch mine. But after you joined our forum with your history I know you got the right 300F for you. Personally i do not know if we ever could do a business. As far as I got out that you still have many parts of the first (white) 300F you bought years ago. It's because I recognised the parts mission at my Letter were present at your first purchase.
Of course I'm reading your thread as well. Actually I'm many steps away but I hope once I get it running again. From what I could see - and that's a really good sign - is how the structure of the body looks like (e.g. floor, quarter and door structure and more). As for the Astrodome power supply I purchased two capacitors according to a tip at the Chrysler 300 Internation forum at Yahoo. In the one in parts bin I got I with my Letter I replaced the capacitor and now the voltage is like new. Happy driving! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | I have information and photos of many 300Fs that have been for sale over the years including yours. I only show a few on my web site. The club has info on many more. Some of the cars I have in my collection I don't have the VINs for so I have to try and match them up when they come up for sale again. Frankly if some of you guys in Europe did not save some of these major project cars, they might never get saved. There are a couple more for sale right now that need so much work I just couldn't get involved with them. I really needed a driver quality car and I'm very happy with what I got.
Hopefully the dash lights and gauges will be a simple fix. A lot of the things on the car just didn't work from lack of use over the past 16 years.
Nick. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | About my Letter: I know from whom (living near San Jose, CA) I bought it and that he never went to the registry to apply for the 300F. He purchased it in the condition I got it. The title of my Letter shows a guy in Pacheco CA (issue date 2008). I assume the 300F was running at that time. I don't know what this guy did. But as a result the engine quit working (the engine sized because of detonation - the top of the piston #1 has melted and is now beyond any hope) and he stored it under a blue PVC plane for six years with open hood. The PVC plane rotted over the years.... There were loads of stuff in the center bins and under the front seat frame. So I found a receipt that in 1972 the spark plugs were replaced and in 1974 an owner was Mr. Schafer (insurance receipt). Ony owner was smoking filter less cigarettes... My seller thinks that I'm the third or fourth owner. The production date at the broadcast sheet (fragment only) shows 0114 (January 14th, 1960). That matches with the engine. My Letter was set in traffic in February 1960. I could imagine that my Letter originally was produced to display it in a show room (February 8th was the day the 300F was introduced into the market). So possibly a customer got my Letter out of the show room shortly after the appearance in the show room. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ramona, CA | What is the SO NUMBER on the body tag? Yours should be after 0201 going by the VIN. Still pretty early. My car is a 0509 car. It was originally bought by a William Shafer. Different spelling than yours. I got some old pictures from a previous owner yesterday and I heard back from the son of the original owner although he didn't have any pictures. I added some new pictures to my thread on the car. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The SO number at the body tag is 0114, the scheduled date at the broad cast sheet fragment I found under the sound deadener mat at the passenger side (virtually under the front seat frame) shows 0114 as well. The VIN of my Letter is 26310 (84031xxxxx). Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The drivers side exhaust manifold has been repaired (welded) by a professional cast iron welder in middle Germany. Both exhaust manifolds are sandblasted and the broken screws have been removed by a local machine shop for the amount of a dinner. The elbows nees a sandblasting job as well. I plan to color it with a heat resistent color cast iron bright. Actually I'm trying to unlock the frozen engine with loads of Dieseloil. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ramona, CA | Here are a couple VINS before yours with later SPD.
8403126206 - 0201
8403126221 - 0201
I just dug up the tags from my old car and it has the same SPD as yours.
8403129501 - 0114
Of course the SPD (Scheduled Production Date) doesn't always line up with the actual build date of the car and the cars didn't necessarily go down the line in sequence to the VIN. Always interesting looking into what Chrysler did.
Hope you can get your engine unfrozen. The one to my white car was left outside for several years with the heads off. I had to hammer all of the pistons out.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | NicksGarage - 2016-03-25 2:54 AM Here are a couple VINS before yours with later SPD. 8403126206 - 0201 8403126221 - 0201 I just dug up the tags from my old car and it has the same SPD as yours. 8403129501 - 0114 Of course the SPD (Scheduled Production Date) doesn't always line up with the actual build date of the car and the cars didn't necessarily go down the line in sequence to the VIN. Always interesting looking into what Chrysler did. Hope you can get your engine unfrozen. The one to my white car was left outside for several years with the heads off. I had to hammer all of the pistons out. Thanks a lot for your informations. What I'm asking me is if the SPD is linked with the sequence number and if the VIN (normally a consecutive number) is in line with all cars produced at the Jefferson plant at that time. Or if the sequence number and VIN number is related to the order of the dealer at the factory. Actually I really don't have any clue when exactly my Letter has been assembled at the production line. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Dieter, the VIN (normally a consecutive number) was in line with all cars produced at the plant. That's the reason that the first 4 numbers are hand punched while the rest is stamped in.
There's a high possibility that the car in question was produced at the scheduled production date. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Sven Thanks a lot. This morning, when I applied torque to the center screw (3/4" screw) with my torque ratchet something unexpected happened when I applied the torque CCW. I could break loose the center screw. So I could only apply torque to he CW direction (saftey reason: adjusted to the nominal torque addressed in the 1960 service manual). I think I need a chain wrench now to apply torque to the double grooved pulley, e.g. http://www.reedmfgco.com/en/products/wrenches/chain-wrenches-heavy-... or http://www.rothenberger-usa.com/en/products/-/208-chain-pipe-wrench-heavy-duty-/ Happy Motoring! Dieter BTW: I have the imagination that the crankshaft moved a little bit - in one cylinder I could see a small band with a different color (more red) at the cylinder wall above the piston.
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-03-26 6:54 AM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes Dieter, one VIN tag was picked for the actual car on the assembly line, could be one New Yorker before a 300F after a Saratoga etc...
Don't use those wrenches on the pulleys Dieter - you'll uin the pulley (best case) or destroy the harmonic damper (worst case)
Perhaps you could use a Crow bar through the drain access in the bottom of the bell housing. You'll need a thin one, eventually slightly bent sideways because the flywheel is to the Engine side in the opening. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I was working again at the Letter. To my disappointment the crankshaft didn't move even a thousands of an inch. I removed the cover plate at the bellhouse and noticed a tag at the front of the drivers side cylinder bank while I was seeking for a serial number at the engine block. That doesn't look very promissing. At my Beast the serial number is punched into the boss behind the water pump housing. The serial number of the engine of my former truck was punched into the front of the engine block (318 A engine). Dieter
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Location: Ramona, CA | They didn't put the car serial number on the engines until after the start of 1968. That year they are on the top left rear of the engine next to the bellhousing. 1969 and up it's on the pan rail at the bottom of the engine. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Nick thanks for your replay. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I looked for what is to do for the preparation of the transmission removal. Then I looked at the trunk lid again and found some evidence that the ornament didn't walk away itself Somebody apparently used a screw driver and all four mounting bolts are still in place. Plus there was some sealant or glue used to fix the ornament in the trunk lid... personally I do not wonder when my ornament would appear at e-pain in a few years... Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the propeller shaft. The u-joint looks okay, it's just a little bit sticky but no lash noticeable. First I removed the propeller shaft from the emergency brake and afterwards at the yoke at the differential. When I removed the drive shaft I vaguely remember that first I removed it at the yoke of the differential and afterwards at the emergency brake. No wonder the propeller shaft fell to my nose when removing it from the emergency brake first. Now it's a real pain to remove the cap nut to remove the speedometer cable. That's the next step to proceed to remove the Plymouth transmission. Happy Motoring! |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday I got a parcel from England, containg No 12 x 0.75 stainless steel machine screws (10 pieces). Three of them I used to mount the cleaned (ultra sonic bath) and lubed deck lid latch. Now I could close the deck lid like on a normal car and I do not need the clamping set anymore. To open I use a metric #4 blade screw driver. That fits perfect into the slot for the opener mechanism of the latch. Today I removed the non stock expansion container for the radiator. It seems somebody tried to cure the loss of coolant fluid (cylinder head gasket leak) with an external container... Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Location: Ramona, CA | I need to replace my trunk latch, the spring that holds it open when you open the lid broke. I did replace the lock cylinder so I don't have to use a screwdriver anymore. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Nick Compared to your 300F I need a trunk lock. There was none in the parts stock I got from the seller. As for the trunk lock latch I would contact Big M. As far as I know it's a generic part used on many Mopar cars during that time period. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday night I took pictures of the rear panel because there is a discussion at Jaris thread to help. At the picture collection are two pictures with the seam (top end and bottom end). Thanks to the pictures of Nick I found two pieces for the C pillar. As well documented with pictures. I found a tin can mounted below the stock washer water canister. It looks like a reservoir for the vacuum. Anybody has a similar tin can mounted below the canister? Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The coffee tin is standard Equipment Dieter. It's a vacuum resovair tank for wiper washers and heater actuators |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks Wizard. So I'm gonna to keep it. Happy Motoring! Dieter |
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Location: Ramona, CA | wizard - 2016-04-03 7:14 AM
The coffee tin is standard Equipment Dieter. It's a vacuum resovair tank for wiper washers and heater actuators
I'm missing this can on my 300F. Is it the same in '61-62? I know I can get a generic one.
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | That system was only used in 1960 on Chrysler and DeSoto. In 61 I believe they went back to the Jiffy Jet system. This is the Trico Coordinated washer system, which was also used on Corvette and Cadillac in that era. As to the vacuum can, maybe John Fowlie has some ( BIG-M ).
Edited by imopar380 2016-04-04 7:36 PM
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Location: Ramona, CA | They may have had a smaller can for the heater controls in '61-62. The '68-69 Chargers used a similar can for the hidden headlights. It was mounted under the battery. In '70 they went to an electric motor. I may have the can from my old 300F. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | When I visited my Letter the first time at the yard of the shipping company in Switzerland I discovered that the trunk lid ornament was not on the trunk lid anymore, I informed a friend. His proposal was to use a plain deck lid like from a Windsor, Saratoga or New Yorker. His point was that the trunk lid is in a discutable state as well (almost beyond repair) and some 300F left the factory without the toilet seat. I resisted until today because my plan was to bring my Letter back to the state it left the factory. If I would use a plain deck lid anybody could get out (with the broadcast sheet) that my Letter isn't original anymore. As a consequence I'm not related to the broadcast sheet anymore so I could choose any color for the body in a range from gay rose to charcoal metallic and from viper green to blue, red, black or dark brown for the seat covers and door panels. Or let the original (and repaired) trunk lid with no ornament forever...
Happy restoring! Dieter BTW: my opinion: any body color except rose and black. Black is an absolutely no go for me.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday I removed all (except the license plate illumination) lights at the body of my Letter. There are clear evidence that my Letter once was repainted with a brighter white than the original eggshell like original color. What color I would choose I'll decide later on. As I wrote above if I'll change the trunk lid with a plain one then I could choose another color as well. My favorite is stardust blue metallic like I saw on a 300F convertible (picture from Sweden). That convertible looks very sharp with stardust blue metallic. Next steps are removing the bumpers, the resting chrome trime (passenger side only), the dashboard, the transmission, the engine, the side windows, the wiring harness and - when my Letter is on the floor again - the windshield and rear window. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: Ramona, CA | If you're going to go with a non-standard color have you considered doing two-tone? I really like this red car and thought it would be cool to see a 300F in two-tone like this. Maybe the blue you're thinking of with a darker blue roof. The contrast really makes the fins stand out even more.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for your proposal. This car looks really nice, especially with the wire wheels and the two tone color. I like red as well. But I assume I'll keep my Letter Alaskan White as it was when it left the factory. I can live with it even though it's not my favorite color. http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?type=paint&paint=7003&ditzler=8218&syear=1960&smanuf=Chrysler&smodel=&sname=Alaskan%20White&rows=50 Furthermore I took some pictures of the grille after I removed it. It looks sad, the frame. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: Ramona, CA | Can you use a New Yorker grill frame to replace that? |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | I am fairly sure you could use a New Yorker grille frame. Holes would need to be drilled for the bar mounts. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes, the outer grille frame is the same, if you look on the Picture of the inside, you can see that the bolt hole was drilled, not casted.
It would be wise to mount a reinforcement washer in the 4 mounting positions for cross. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Big thank you for your comments and proposals. I hope I could find a nice NY grille frame. In the meantime I took two more pictures to show details of the frame and the grille from the back. What I don't know is if the vertical rails of the grille should be straight or slightly bent like on mine. I'll appreciate your answers very much. Thank you. Happy restoring! Dieter
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | It looks a little sloppy on the bolts Dieter, actually the spare part manual shows two different frames;
PC-3 1863 785
PC-300 1963 235
Could it be that the frame already is a NY one? At least it seems like the bolts from the side should have had something more, perhaps a slated washer.
Nick, can you check on your car and confirm? |
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Location: Ramona, CA | wizard - 2016-04-25 12:24 PM
It looks a little sloppy on the bolts Dieter, actually the spare part manual shows two different frames;
PC-3 1863 785
PC-300 1963 235
Could it be that the frame already is a NY one? At least it seems like the bolts from the side should have had something more, perhaps a slated washer.
Nick, can you check on your car and confirm?
I'll take a look at mine and see what it has there. It will be a couple days as my car is still at my friend's shop. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | NicksGarage - 2016-04-04 3:14 PM
wizard - 2016-04-03 7:14 AM
The coffee tin is standard Equipment Dieter. It's a vacuum resovair tank for wiper washers and heater actuators
I'm missing this can on my 300F. Is it the same in '61-62? I know I can get a generic one.
I talked to someone who has multiple 1960 Chrysler and they only had the can on one of them. I looked at my car and don't see any evidence that one was there before. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | If the cars had the Trico coordinated wiper washer, then there must be a resovair tank. If the car had a Jiffy bag with Electric pump, then there's no need for a resovair tank.
Obviously, Power brakes Always needs a resovair tank, but that was mounted in the left front fender or under the battery tray |
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Location: Ramona, CA | wizard - 2016-04-25 10:31 PM
If the cars had the Trico coordinated wiper washer, then there must be a resovair tank. If the car had a Jiffy bag with Electric pump, then there's no need for a resovair tank.
Obviously, Power brakes Always needs a resovair tank, but that was mounted in the left front fender or under the battery tray
These were all 1960 cars with the vacuum washer like mine. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: milano, italy | Dieter, my F has no toilet seta from the factory, but on the build sheet it's clearly written "special order deck lid". I think there is a pic on my F page here on the forum. I would restore the car as is. You have to call Dan Petty for 300 parts, or hear someone in the 300 club. Also Jeff Carter has some old stuff avaible, but he is not easy to reach
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | NicksGarage - 2016-04-26 8:10 AM
wizard - 2016-04-25 10:31 PM
If the cars had the Trico coordinated wiper washer, then there must be a resovair tank. If the car had a Jiffy bag with Electric pump, then there's no need for a resovair tank.
Obviously, Power brakes Always needs a resovair tank, but that was mounted in the left front fender or under the battery tray
These were all 1960 cars with the vacuum washer like mine.
Thats very strange Nick - where is the vaccum "feed" hose on the Trico connected to then? Power brake resovair or manifold? |
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Location: Ramona, CA | wizard - 2016-04-25 11:42 PM
NicksGarage - 2016-04-26 8:10 AM
wizard - 2016-04-25 10:31 PM
If the cars had the Trico coordinated wiper washer, then there must be a resovair tank. If the car had a Jiffy bag with Electric pump, then there's no need for a resovair tank.
Obviously, Power brakes Always needs a resovair tank, but that was mounted in the left front fender or under the battery tray
These were all 1960 cars with the vacuum washer like mine.
Thats very strange Nick - where is the vaccum "feed" hose on the Trico connected to then? Power brake resovair or manifold?
That's part of my problem, all the vacuum lines were disconnected and some were plugged with twigs. I'll take a picture of what's there. I hooked them back up based on the sizes.
I don't see the vacuum reservoir in the parts book but it might not be listed with the rest of the washer stuff. The vacuum tank for the brakes is listed in the brake section. They do list the washer hoses and the lengths.
3/16" OD 127"
9/32" OD 40"
13/32" OD 76"
13/32" OD 90" |
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Location: Ramona, CA | I looked at my spare grille and it's like Dieter's where the bolts go through the side. I'll look at the one in my car tomorrow.
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Well, that IS a sloppy installation - now we can almost be sure that they used the New Yorker frame and drilled holes in it |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for all of your comments. Personally I was wondering as well why Chrysler didn't use specialised washers to get a parallel surface to the hex head of the screw. The two different parts numbers for the frame could indicate just with (300F) or with no screw holes (NY) in the frame. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-04-27 1:11 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | antonellomopar - 2016-04-25 8:16 AM Dieter, my F has no toilet seta from the factory, but on the build sheet it's clearly written "special order deck lid". I think there is a pic on my F page here on the forum. I would restore the car as is. You have to call Dan Petty for 300 parts, or hear someone in the 300 club. Also Jeff Carter has some old stuff avaible, but he is not easy to reach Hi Antonello
Thanks a lot for your suggestions. The "toilet seat" is a surname of peoples in the States. In my broadcast sheet fragment there is the box under TRIM "Flitesweep Deck Lid". But there is no number in the check box like e.g. "radio/speeker" which has a 3 (423). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: Ramona, CA | di_ch_NY56 - 2016-04-27 10:10 AM
Thanks a lot for all of your comments. Personally I was wondering as well why Chrysler didn't use specialised washers to get a parallel surface to the hex head of the screw. The two different parts numbers for the frame could indicate just with (300F) or with no screw holes (NY) in the frame. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Maybe there was a spacer in there. I'll be out working on my car later today and I'll take a look. It wouldn't be that hard to make an angled spacer to go in there to use a New Yorker grille shell. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: milano, italy | If there is no number in the box, it means this option was not ordered. On the F the toilet seat trunk lid was standard, so it didn't show on the broadcast sheet. It would appear it's deletion, as on my car. |
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Location: milano, italy |  [/IMG] |
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | antonellomopar - 2016-04-27 8:45 PM
If there is no number in the box, it means this option was not ordered. On the F the toilet seat trunk lid was standard, so it didn't show on the broadcast sheet. It would appear it's deletion, as on my car.
Yep Antonello, that's correct. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | Here is the spacer on my new 300F. Has one on each side. Looks to be made out of pot metal like the grille.
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | That's surely is better - that way the frame don't break or warps...
Thanks' Nick |
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Location: Ramona, CA | wizard - 2016-04-28 8:15 AM
That's surely is better - that way the frame don't break or warps...
Thanks' Nick
Yes, and easy to replicate with some aluminum rod. I wonder how often they break and fall out? My old car was a pile of rust everything outside was pretty rotten.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | NicksGarage - 2016-04-27 4:11 PM Here is the spacer on my new 300F. Has one on each side. Looks to be made out of pot metal like the grille. It looks wonderful. I don't know if these spacers were from Chrysler. I didn't find them in the parts catalog. In the meantime I disassembled the grille. It's possible to miggy-weld the slot at the bottom of the frame. But then I would build an assisting frame to bend the original frame back to it's original shape. It's because front end of my Letter looks like it apparently was hitted once at the front, rh side. From JcParts it looks like I gonna get an ornament. More later on. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Glad JC Auto was able to help you with the trunk lid ornament. Every time I called someone for parts I asked about it for you.
Unfortunately the parts book doesn't always show every part for the 300F since it was a late intro. I wonder if that spacer was a running change. Surprising that your car and my old one didn't have them. Maybe I'll post a question on the 300 mailing list to do a survey. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I assume there was a change during the livecylce of the 300F production. I'm sure my Letter was an early bird at the production line. So it could be that the staff had to improvise some solutions. Today I was working at my Letter again for some hours. I tried to loosen the emergency cable at the handle mechanism. But the nut is frozen as well so I cleaned the thread with a steel wire brush and applied penetrating oil. When I looked upwards at the windshield I discovered a crack in the outer glass of the windshield compound. This crack is quite new and was not present few weeks ago. But at least I could destroy the windshield now to save the windshield weatherstrip. At that weatherstrip I discovered a lip inside at the A pillar near the corners routed down to the corners. I think no reproduction weatherstrip would carry this lip. I removed the front license plate and noticed that the year 63 is stamped in where the stickers were mounted at the rear license plate. At the rear license plate is a sticker of 1973 and at the other upper corner 1974. At least the rear sticker were applied when Mr. Fred Schafer was the owner of my Letter. I also applied penetrating oil to the push button mechanism. Now the push buttons are working with ease and don't stick anymore.
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-04-30 3:36 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | California made everyone change their license plates in 1963-64. That was the last year that the state made us change plates. They change during 1970 to the blue plate with yellow characters. The year sticker was supposed to be put on the rear only on the side with the 63 stamp but people did put them in the wrong place at times. Commercial trucks have them on the front plates now but don't know if they did that then. There is no 1963 sticker since it was stamped into the plate.
The state is offering the black plates again and that is what I have on my car. They would have had the correct yellow/black plates if they had gotten enough pre-orders but they didn't. Same with the later blue plates.
I posted the grille question on the 300 mailing list and so far one person came back and said they have the spacers.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Chrysler300/info
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for your explanation Nick. Today I worked a little at my Letter. I tried to remove the chromed frame around the license plate at the body. Unfortunatley the RH side is sticking because the vertical metal sheet is higher at the RH side than at the LH side of the opening (license plate and filler neck). I removed most of the RH chrome moulding. To remove the chrome trim around the opening I assume first I have to remove the rear bumper... Then I checked the lilfters. Two of 16 lifters were sized due to rust. I applied Diesel to try to free them. Today I noticed that one of the sized lifters is free now (:-). So I think it's just a matter of time until all lifters are free. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: I peeled off the broken layer of an unprofessional repair of a parking accident, last picture shows the state after the removal of the layer.
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-05-01 8:27 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today (assuncion) I removed all 16 lifters and put it into a frame. Then I removed the resting chrome trim at the RH side. I managed to get two holders of the side rail out of the holes /wo damage. I assume they were made out of phenolic resin. Partially I put the chrome trim together. I noticed at the emblems that the blue color almost separated completely. What type of color is it? It looks like light blue metallc (very fine powder). Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | I'm not sure what color blue it is supposed to be but I would guess that it faded some. Here are the new emblems I got from the club and the emblems from the car I parted out and and original emblems from my new car.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Oops, forgot the ones from the car I parted.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks for your pictures. The emblem at the rear I removed as well. It looks very good like yours. The side emblems are looking like on your 300F (the running one). It seems that the blue color is not very light resistant or - because it peels off not as adhesive like the white and red color. The only thing that appeared in my head about that is that I could go to a body shop to ask if they could renovate the blue color (new, water based color not to damage the acrylic like carrier). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Yes, it appears the blue is more prone to light damage than the other colors. A previous owner of my car replaced the grille emblem and the one on the trunk. The trunk one is faded again in the blue. You can see they put it on crooked as well. I guess if the car is going to be out in the sun a lot, it's going to fade. I would think there is some way to prevent it.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the front windows and fiddled with the quarter windows (#@*&^%! #@*&^%! #@*&^%! #@*&^%!) up to the point that I didn't feel anything in my finger tips anymore. It's the worst pain to work at the quarter windows. Instead of driving with my Beast. It's a wonderful day here today. Happy Motoring! Dieter BTW: I slammed the drivers door that much that the lever of the outer door handle to the door lock separated.... and went away after I fixed the link; tomorrow is another day. Then I'll try the removal again with removing the allen screws at the pivot point/lever mechanism.
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-05-06 3:25 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Now the quarter window of the drivers side is out of the Letter. I had to remove really all screws. First of all the lifting mechanism fell down and then I had to wiggle the window up and down until the front and rear guides fell down. Finally I could route the window out of the channel between the outer and the inner shell of the quarter panel. But not with binding once more. I damaged the headliner as well, but I have to remove it anyway. The electric window lift is still inside. I couldn't remove it out of the service opening. Picture IMG_2708 shows a sheet metal screw. How do I remove it? it's the only one connection holding the electric lift mechanism in the drivers door. There are some pictures included showing a zinc plated channel inside the drivers side rocker, covering the wiring harness to the rear. How do I remove it? Should I let it stay or use a crowbar to force it out? Good news is that all the clips holding the passenger side section of the wiring harness in place (clips) are intact and rustfree. The big pug(body wiring harness plug) is open now. It's only the illumination of the rear license plate resisting the removal... During the removal of the quarter window I just thought I'll never ever mount these windows again. When I think about the mounting of these windows for me it's worse than the worst nightmare. Happy Motoring! Dieter
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | First I took a picture of my cat (Paulus du Tricolomtèreu) who likes the frame of the grille. I removed the pivot and lever as an assemble after moving it to the top down position, mechanism first out of the service hole. this afternoon I got the last securing washer out of the passenger side quarter window mechanism. I removed all screws at the lower stop and the pivot/lever mechanism. But without removing the guides (rear and front) and moving the lever mechansm to the top upper position I couldn't remove the quarter window. Bylaying pictures are showing the setting at the top bottom position with details. Happy restoring! Dieter BTW: I'm sure the mounting of a quarter window needs two persons. With one person (like me) it's at least one hand missing. Because all the parts (window, lifter mechanism, guides) have to be mounted through the service opening.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | I'm pretty sure the quarter window glass comes out through the top. At least that's what the service manual implies. The car I parted out was so rusty I just pulled the sheetmetal out from the rocker and the window stuff fell out the bottom. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | NicksGarage - 2016-05-07 8:22 PM I'm pretty sure the quarter window glass comes out through the top. At least that's what the service manual implies. The car I parted out was so rusty I just pulled the sheetmetal out from the rocker and the window stuff fell out the bottom. Yes Nick, you're correct. The only way to get the quarter windows out of the body is digging it out of the slot between the inner structure and the outer body shell. Binding is the rear guide at the window holder. As you can see it's reinforced and three dimensional. The rear guide (btw) is open to the rear when installed. So it's necessary first to remove the rear guide to try to remove the quarter windows. The window lift mechanism shound be almost at the top to remove the window and at the bottom position to remove the lift mechanism... My meaning (btw) is, that it's almost impossible to mount the window, both guides and the lever mechanism together (only access through the service opening) and hold the window (that it doesn't fall down) is too much for only one man - at least one hand is missing... pls keep in mind (for some readers) it's a hardtop, not a convertible. Happy Restoring! Dieter Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | I need to adjust one of my quarter windows because it binds with the front door glass. And my driver's door probably has a broken gear in the power window gearbox as the window goes most of the way up and then I have to pull on the glass to get it all the way up. It also falls backward so there may be a roller problem. This adds to the binding issue with the quarter window. Hopefully I have enough spare parts. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | I also have all regulators, motors, Windows and stuff almost ready to assembly to my Project (at least I think so) so my nightmare is about coming. I did'nt take them off becouse my G was a basket case projeckt when I got it.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | NicksGarage - 2016-05-09 9:47 PM I need to adjust one of my quarter windows because it binds with the front door glass. And my driver's door probably has a broken gear in the power window gearbox as the window goes most of the way up and then I have to pull on the glass to get it all the way up. It also falls backward so there may be a roller problem. This adds to the binding issue with the quarter window. Hopefully I have enough spare parts. From a nice guy I know that the weak point of the window lever mechanic (electric windows) is the nylon gear in the lever gear. That can break. A guy at the Chrysler 300 Club International offers a restoration with brass instead of nylon. I just argue if the weak point shifts to another corner. First of all I would determine if the quarter window is out of place or the window in the front door. Both could be adjusted. But I assume only one needs a readjustment. Personally I do not have many spare parts for the hole car. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: good luck Jari - I hope my documentation with pictures and description would help. I would not wonder if first you have to put the quarter window lever to the lowest point to put it into the body and then scroll up almost to the top to insert the small rollers into the carrier of the glass. Then install the rear and front guide and adjust the whole assembly. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Dieter, it's both windows. The rear window is too far forward when rolled all the way up. I think a previous owner had it apart to fix the gear in that one.
I agree on the shifting of stress from the nylon gear to somewhere else. Part of the problem with these early electric windows is that they go so fast. It puts a lot of shock on the system. I've read that the early ones snap the housing off where the motor mounts. JC Auto fixes them. I haven't had the panels off to see what's going on yet. When I first got the car the windows didn't work at all and then from the front switch but then the fronts rolled down when I was playing with it but they wouldn't roll back up. That turned out to just be the switch. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I picked up the parcel form Jeff Carter Company. Helluwa I got the Fleetsweep ornament. It looks great. Plus six ornaments in the size of the wheel covers/trunk lid ornament (basically a converted hub cap). So I need these parts... - grille frame (with a lot of my upper body weight I could close the gap, but it springs back when I release the force -> heavy bent) - straight rear bumper - both gutter rails (polished stainless steel) at the roof line. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Congrats on getting the deck lid ornament. It does look great. And a lot cheaper than you were thinking it was going to cost. Now you can keep your toilet seat!
Did you get the emblems from Jeff as well? I got mine from the 300 club. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Nick
Yes all six ornaments I got from JCParts as well. Do you know - does the club sell the side ornaments? I only noticed the grille emblem. I'm very happy and released because I got the trunk ornament. State at my Letter this afternoon: All side windows are out of my Letter and I cleaned the bottom of the doors a little bit. All the guides are out of my Letter as well.
Next I'll start with removing the small parts (push button arrays, electric switches and so on) at the dashboard to finally remove the dashboard. Happy restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | The club does not have the side emblems. George Laurie in Australia makes them but don't know if he has them in stock or how long it takes to get them if he has to make them. He wouldn't tell me how long it would take to get taillight lenses so I didn't order them. I only need the right one right now.
georgelaurie@bigpond.com
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I think it's just necessary to replace the carrier with the french national flag colors. As far as I saw the character and the numbers are boltet on the carrier. Perhaps Jari (Adventurer 60) knows a source. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I just removed small parts (sun visors and dome lights). I looked closer at the window lifts to free the drivers side quarter window lift a little bit more and noticed a damage at the drivers side door window lift. Three teeth are shaved off or bent. In my case it looks like the damaged area is at the bottom. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the part numbers printed onto the electric window lifts: front doors: left: 1963 647 right: 1963 646 quarter window left: 1963 377 right: 1963 376 The 1960 parts manual shows 1964 numbers....
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-05-15 9:50 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ramona, CA | That may be my problem as I have to help the window up when it gets to a certain point. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | My parts book shows two different ones for front doors. One is listed as a "Dura type assembly"?
Interchange book shows the following applications.
Front:
Chrysler '60-64 2 Dr
Desoto '60-61 2 Dr
Dodge '60-61 2 Dr
Dodge '62-64 880 ser 2 Dr
Plymouth '60-61 2 Dr
My interchange book doesn't show the coupe quarter window regulators but it looks like it fits Chrysler '60-62, Dodge full size '60-64 and Plymouth '60-61. The '63-64 Chryslers changed body style and has a different part number for the quarter window regulator.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the roof rail stainless steel. Happily I could dig the resting weatherstrip out of the channel to get access to the Philips screws (about every 10 cm one). I proceeded with the inner stainless steel trim and was astonished that on both sides at the front end piece there was only one screw. The second one was never ever mounted...
After removing the all of the roof line stainless steel trim I noticed that the bows (holding the headliner in place) are out of stainless steel as well and secured with a Philips screw at each side. I couldn't resist and removed all three bows as well. Finally I took out the headliner. It's imitation leather from the outside finish (texture like leather). There are leather stripes with the width of the inside of the stainless steel bows Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Yes, fortunately our Fs have stainless steel headliner bows instead of the chromed plastic people have to deal with on other cars. I have a hole in my headliner. Going to order a new one from Gary Goers. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I reomved the rear bumper to get access to remove the license plate trim/ filler neck recession trim. There is a small bump at the drivers side, but I assume not visible when a straight bumper with horns is mounted. During the removal I had to get up several times to look around where the bumper could be attached to the body as well. Once I hit my head at the top corner of the drivers side rear lamp.... ouch Becaue I do not want to cut the emergency brake cable I mounted the holder once again. I plan to use two conter hex nuts to hold the thread while loosening the adjusting nut. It's UNF and the size of the adjuster screw is 1/2". I noticed rust at the passenger side door a) frame at the top near the vent frame b) shell front lower corner Finally I removed the package shelf. Top the fabric Nick and Jari described, below a cardpaper layer with three arrays of holes and the heater hose between the valve and the intake of the heater core. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: I think I'm on track to finish the disassembling early November 2016. Now the big parts could start (gas tank, transmission, engine, dashboard, heater system, brake system, windshield and rear window)
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Posts: 1984
Location: Branson, MO | Ouch! Bump doesn't look too bad but like I always say: "It will feel a lot better when it quits hurtin'".
Keep us posted with your progress - always of interest.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot. Today I removed the horns and tested each at home. Both are working . I'm preparing for the removal of the dashboard and wanted to know where the coordinator switch is mounted. Today - more per coincidence I got it. It's located near the wiper motor at the passenger side. Just for documentation purposes I took some pictures (heater box with thermostat wire, vacuum actuators). I managed to free the wiring harness from the radiator yoke. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday late evening I removed the emergency brake cable out of the drum. Today I removed the remote outside mirror at the drivers side. First I removed the adjuster from the dashboard and then the three wires from the adjuster. There was no plastic cover at the rear of the adjuster mechanism nor color markings at the three wires. So I used adhesive tape to mark each wire with the corresponding character (addressed from the back of the adjuster, Y, R, G). I looked closer at the roof and got very lucky. I always thought - ouch the roof is very rusty. But it isn't. It's a surface of a vinil - effect color once sprayed onto the original (alpine white) color. Underneath the roof shell is rustfree - except at the drivers side C pillar end. Personally I do not like a vinil roof - I'll stay with a roof with a factory color, in my case WW1 - like my Letter left from the factory. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-05-28 10:55 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Good that your roof isn't rusty. Chrysler used to sell "vinyl top in a can" kits that included the textured coating and strips you would put on the roof first to look like seams. It was mostly popular on pickup trucks. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks Nick, I didn't know that. I assue it was aftermarket or dealer applied. Here are some pictures by the way. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: I was quite astonished about what I found under the remote outside mirror: a) apparently the original color (glossy like a mirror) and two screw holes at the rear...
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-05-28 1:01 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Looks like someone missed when mounting the mirror. Apparently my car did not come with mirrors when new and were added on. My mirror control is under the dash. But they are the correct '60 mirrors. And in nice shape too.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Nick - I know that you have aftermarket remote mirror from your thread. But your mirrors are looking absolutely stunning. As set of two mirror with this condition costs at epain at least USD 600.- I was working on my Letter again for some hours. I removed the bezel of the transmission button array. The mechanism I gonna remove when I unhooked the cable at the iron hog. Also I removed the heater control array. First I thought you all my friends could call me the worst idiot walking on this planet. But after a quick visit at the Chrysler 300 Club Interntational page (heater control) I got out that it's normal that almost all nipples broke off during the removal of the plug. Apparently no relation to how much care you'll apply. Fortunately earlier on I purchased a heater control /w bezel and buttons at epain. At that one button is completely locked (electric contact bent). But all nipples are present at the back plate . Furthermore I removed the throttle pedal, the mechanism and the attaching point of the lever of the seat frame. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: at the control switch of my Letter both speeds of the fan are working - I checked it earlier on
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Location: Ramona, CA | Yes, I'm very lucky with the condition of most of the trim on my car. That's why I was willing to pay more for it than most people thought it was worth. Still need a few things though.
I haven't gotten my heater controls working or tried pulling it out. I've had many mopars over the years and those plastic heater controls are always hard not to break. There is a guy here in the states that rebuilds them though and can fix any problem with them. A friend had his done on his 1964 Chrysler last year and works perfectly now.
The documentation you're providing here is going to be very helpful for anyone restoring one of these cars. |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for your flowers. I'm trying to do my best. It's a "try and error" method, because it's my very first project I'm processing. I'm taking loads of pictures, writing a documentation book and this thread for to know how to assemble my Letter once. Because I'm working as a truck driver I need time (spell years) to finish my project. Prior to remove the heater control I took a picture to elaborate the steps (plus many advices and kicks in my back from my friend Wizard). First I took a small blade screw driver to remove the clip from the bottom. Then I could slide out the o-ring of the wire of the temperature adjuster. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | At the roofrail weatherstrips (where the side windows go in when fully rised) I found a parts number: 1884 646 - 7 A EK. I didn't find that part number in the 1960 parts manual. The weatherstrips were slided in into the channel, apparently from the front to the back (base of the C pillar). So I could only dig it out with no damage. Only the first about 4 inches have gone during the time. The residues I removed were sticky like tar. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This evening after n advice of a good friend I removed the speaker with the fiberglass holder. Bylaying are some pictures about how the dashpad was originally mounted. In my Letter it's falling apart so I need a replacement as well. I'll choose RD Autoline in Sweden because last year when I visited the PBM 2015 I met the guys at their booth. they had a 1960 and 1961 dashpad on display at the booth. I applied some (or a lot of) penetrating oil to free the vacuum motors. With no speaker mounted, the access to the wiper linkage and the vacuum motor for the open/close function of the 715 heater is ways better. As a result all three vacuum motors are moving again. The vacuum hoses under the dash are in a good shape as well (flexible like almost new). The hex nut of the inside mirror I couldn't open right now. It's a big pressed mild steel nut in my case. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the neutral switch to get access to the spring, holding the end of the mode/gear selector cable. finally I could dig out the gear selector cable. Then I removed the cooling lines at the transmission. I took some pictures of the front end, because I think it's misaligned due to an accident. In my opinion the front bumper is ways too high compared to other senior 1960 Chryslers. To loosen the nut at the filler tube to drain the transmission first I have to purchase a 1 1/16 hex wrench. The 1 1/8 I have is too big. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great work Dieter, step by step!
Take some shrink-tube and close the cooling lines with and put some rubber plugs in the transmission - just for to keep out dirt or sand.
Clearly something happened to the front bumper in the history of the car - now is a good time to try to figure out if the mounting brackets are damaged or askew. The sub-frame looks ok. |
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Expert
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot Sven I'll do it next time.
This evening I went to my Letter again to remove the gear selector mechanism. First of all the bracket and the connector to the illumination lamp must be removed and disconnected. Then remove the hex nuts and slide the mechanism back and turn it 30 to 45 degree to the RH side. So you'll get access to the back up switch to unhook the socket. Without the AstroDome in place this work is ways easier. After I removed (or during) I discovered another orange colored item mounted at the side (covered by the gear selector mechanism). It looks like a circuit breaker (array?) or a voltage regulator. Now as far as I concern it's just the light switch, the wiper switch and the wiper motor/washer coordinator switch connected to the dashboard wiring harness. Actually I don't know if I have to remove the ducts to the windshield defroster channel prior to the removal of the dashboard as well. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: (IMG_2870_resized.JPG) at the bottom of the opening the threads of the attaching screws of the directional signal switch are visible. The heads of these two screws accept a Philips screw driver. I'll convert the mounting to the same configuration like the gear selector mechanism
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The box is brown or gray, but not orange. Only the characters are orange... I drained the transmission and received the (very expensive) vacuum heater control switch (NOS). I just wonder what type of plastic material it is made out of. It's a thermoplast and honey colored (I assume the natural color of the plastic). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the relays in the motor bay and the air ducts under the dashboard. Remaining are the directional switch, the light switch, the wiper switch and the clock to remove or at least to disconnect from the wiring harness. Because the glove box liner has to go through the opening (wiper motor partially and heater box between the firewall and the glove box liner) it's beyond any hope now. But good luck: Gary Goers offers new linings. I'm on track with the disassemblage... (time table) Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the first picture shows the voltage regulator. I assume it's an alternator regulator - an alternator was mounted at the engine when I purchased my Letter - most possibly dealer installed
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ramona, CA | di_ch_NY56 - 2016-06-05 10:41 AM
I discovered another orange colored item mounted at the side (covered by the gear selector mechanism). It looks like a circuit breaker (array?) or a voltage regulator.
Is this what you're asking about? These are circuit breakers. They're mounted on a card that hooks onto the sheet metal. Slide it up to remove it. The circuit breakers are for things like a power antenna or the rear cigar lighter. The big green wire has an inline fuse further down. I had to replace this wire on my car.
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Expert
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot Nick. It's what I was assuming according the electric drawings (wiring schematics). My Letter has a 6-way electric seat frame adjuster, power windows and the rear cigarette lighter. When I'm ready at the final assembling I assume I'll add the wire for the power antenna as well to the RH rear fender to later on add a power antenna. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ramona, CA | The factory wiring diagrams are incomplete and hard to read. I was trying to find out what the big green wire was and someone else told me it was for the rear lighter. It's not actually using a circuit breaker but is just tied in there to get power. My other F had a power antenna and it did hook into one of the circuit breakers there. I'll try to remember to take a picture of that part when I have the car at home again. The spare wiring harness is in the trunk. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed - I couldn't believe it but now it's out - the dashboard. I had to remove the socket of the map lamp - the last remaining connection in the dashboard to the wiring harness. After the removal of the dashboard I removed the directional switch. It's now out for a service. The brown wire is broken off at the switch. Both front directional wires have below 0.5 Ohms to the flasher input wire when the lever is in the corresponding positon. I took the seat frame with me to my home. I conncted the laboratory power supply (adjusted to 14.4 V/ 30A). First I disconnected all solenoids (three of them) to check if the motor cranks forwards and backwards. It does. So I conncted the solenoids again. The basic functions forth / back and up / down are working. The movement is quite fast (/wo seats and guys sitting in both front seats). But to move it at the front or rear I have to disconnect the corresponding solenoid. I think the know is to narrow to the bezel to engage the diagonal connections (logical conclusion to move the lever diagonal to tilt the seat frame). Next steps (except the work under my Letter) are the removal of the wiper system, the heater system, the main brake cylinder and brake booster, the wiring harness and the windshield/rear window. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I just got an advice from a good friend. Twist the knob cw and ccw to tilt the seat. It works, my seat frame is moving like a gem . Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-07-24 1:13 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: tailFinland | Dieter, can you help me to find regulator attaching bolt holes?
No idea how it is bolted and a picture in the manual shows only manual regulator spots.
I also need stops for all windows cos they are lost.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Jari I just visited your thread as well after I read your question. In my opinion the stops are generic parts used in all ChryCo hardtop models (estimation without visiting the 1960 parts manual). to get an idea specially for you I took some pictures I attached to my answer. First of all I put all of the removed hardware seperately in boxes per window position (VR = front door passenger side (vorne rechts), HR quarter window passenger side (hinten rechts). In the boxes are the securing washers for the arms of the lifter mechanism as well as the stops I removed. By laying is the corresponding lower stop. At the lower stop of the quarter window is a recessed bar - when mounted correctly, the remaining mounting points of the electric window lift are in line with the screw holes of the recessed bar. To get the correct position I let the stop at the bar. Near the front door (pass side) box there is the corresponding lower stop of the pass side front door. For both upper stops I took a picture. There are two for the rear and the door window. It looks like the front door upper stops were dipped in melted rubber - I assume a shrinking hose would do the job as well... 1951 is the lower quarter panel (passenger side prior the removing of the electric lift and window glass). Good luck Jari Dieter
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Expert
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | NicksGarage - 2016-06-11 11:14 PM di_ch_NY56 - 2016-06-05 10:41 AM I discovered another orange colored item mounted at the side (covered by the gear selector mechanism). It looks like a circuit breaker (array?) or a voltage regulator. Is this what you're asking about? These are circuit breakers. They're mounted on a card that hooks onto the sheet metal. Slide it up to remove it. The circuit breakers are for things like a power antenna or the rear cigar lighter. The big green wire has an inline fuse further down. I had to replace this wire on my car. Thanks a lot.
The green wire has indead an inline fuse in my wiring harness as well. The 10 gage red wire is the feed for the 6-way power front seat. The upper dual red wires are from the battery and going to the amm meter. I was just wondering: it seems my 300F has only two breakers and not three like addressed in the 1960 service manual. So the electric window lifts and the rear cigarette lighter are on the same breaker. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ramona, CA | di_ch_NY56 - 2016-07-30 11:46 AM
NicksGarage - 2016-06-11 11:14 PM di_ch_NY56 - 2016-06-05 10:41 AM I discovered another orange colored item mounted at the side (covered by the gear selector mechanism). It looks like a circuit breaker (array?) or a voltage regulator. Is this what you're asking about? These are circuit breakers. They're mounted on a card that hooks onto the sheet metal. Slide it up to remove it. The circuit breakers are for things like a power antenna or the rear cigar lighter. The big green wire has an inline fuse further down. I had to replace this wire on my car. Thanks a lot.
The green wire has indead an inline fuse in my wiring harness as well. The 10 gage red wire is the feed for the 6-way power front seat. The upper dual red wires are from the battery and going to the amm meter. I was just wondering: it seems my 300F has only two breakers and not three like addressed in the 1960 service manual. So the electric window lifts and the rear cigarette lighter are on the same breaker. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Both of mine only had two. My old car didn't have the power seat but it did have the power antenna, my current car has power seat but not antenna. Here is the one from my first car.
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the circuit breakers and the power supply for the Astro Dome. There are two circuit breakers installed. The LH one (nearer to the firewall) is rated 40A and used for the 6-way power seat, the rear one, rated 30A, is used only for the window lifts. The three wires are the feeding lines to each switch (4-way switch in the front, 2 2-way switches at the rear). The green wire with the inline fuse is the feeding line for the rear cigarette lighter only. The ground of the cigarette lighter is routed through the wiring harness to the passenger quarter window lift. It's the white wire bolted at the bottom of the recessed reinforcement bar (with the lower quarter window stop). The power supply was a pain to remove even though the dashboard is out. The screw heads are 5/16". The shape of the case is very different to the shape of later cars - even thogh the function and the rating (I assume) are similar. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW at the LH side of the circuit breaker array there is the resting mounting slot for the third breaker switch visible...
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday I got the information from my friend, that he was discussing with Jan (Fridberg). The conclusion is that the master of wizards of body work has a super booked schedule for years now and no time for my car anymore. So I'm thinking about further steps of what and to whom. But no news anymore. Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I came to the conclusion to keep on with the restoration with the hope that the master of wizards of body work (Jan Fridberg) once has time to do the body work on my Letter. If not this winter I hope next winter or next winter over. There are many issues at the body from the front end to the rear wall. At least from what I could see (perimeter around the weatherstrips of the windshield and rear window) there is not much or no rust under the weatherstrips. Today I just scratched a part of the gasket between the outer roof rails and the roof away. I removed the upper four hex nuts at the reinforcement mounting plate of the brake booster. I realized that first I have to remove the main brake. I took a picture of the firewall near the opening of the heater fan wheel. The number embossed into the firewall is completely different than the VIN of my Letter... Dieter BTW: at the picture you could easily recognize that the firewall/engine bay originally was white... one owner used satin black and sprayed over everything, even the wires of the wiring harness. I could scratch off the black color to get the original color of the wire...
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ramona, CA | The numbers may match the build sequence number from your build sheet. |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | NicksGarage - 2016-08-14 6:15 AM The numbers may match the build sequence number from your build sheet. Thanks Nick I'll check it. Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This is the state of the body of my Letter. The wiring harness is almost out. The dashboard and the heater box are out. Dieter BTW: these are the picture I sent to Jan (original size)
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This evening I just removed one screw at the passgenger side of the holder of the front bumper. The target is to remove the front bumper as well. Then I removed the drain plug at the oil pan because I wondered how the content of the oil pan would look like. First of all clear water came out, I assume between half of and a galon of water. Finally a milk coffee colored cream came out... at the end with many popel like stuff (milk coffee brown as well). It's still rinsing... Good luck I took my big bricklayer pan to collect the stuff out of the oil pan. Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This evening I removed the front bumper. What I saw on the passenger side corner of the front subframe is not very nice, clear evidences of an accident. The pictures will follow tomorrow when iti's brighter. Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I checked the heater fan motor, still installed in the inside duct. The flow of air is very impressive at the high mode. While picking up the inner and outer ducts of the heater I took some pictures from the front end of the front frame. Here they are... Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This afternoon it was very hot. So I just removed the vacuum canister of the brake system. To remove the brake hose to LH front brake I had to use the vise grip to fix the hex nut at the brake line. Finally I succeeded - years ago I had to use the same method at the passenger side front brake at my Beast. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-08-27 11:59 AM
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Expert
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | NicksGarage - 2016-08-14 6:15 AM The numbers may match the build sequence number from your build sheet. Yes Nick your correct. It's the sequence number, the scheduled data and some more. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | For all of my friends, I'm saving really hard to afford my hobby. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | di_ch_NY56 - 2016-08-30 11:35 AM
For all of my friends, I'm saving really hard to afford my hobby. Happy Restoring! Dieter
It's not easy for some of us. I was lucky to have a car that went up in value enough for me to sell it to get my F. Otherwise I'd still be a dreamer. Now I'm selling parts to afford stuff for the F. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: tailFinland | By the way Nick, Do you much left over F-parts from your ex F? I need some interior pieces for my G |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1192
Location: Ramona, CA | Adventurer 60 - 2016-08-31 4:38 AM
By the way Nick, Do you much left over F-parts from your ex F? I need some interior pieces for my G
I have most of the parts from the car other than the body. The interior was pretty rotten from sitting around with no back window for years. I'm still figuring out what I need from it for my new one but I'm in the middle or working on my house to sell it and move so haven't been able to do much with it. Send me a private message. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I got a big parcel from a city in California containing the grille frame. it's not cracked but the general condition is ways worse than the original grille frame (in the back ground at the LH side of the picture). The dome lenses are here, too. I got it from Murrieta, CA. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-09-03 6:52 AM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I just noticed that all of the card paper parts are that weak (age and dried out) that it even couldn't resist a pressure with the thumb without falling through. While I was removing the glove box liner I noticed that the card paper breaks instead of bending like a new card paper. E.g. the parts of the inner heater box (passenger room) pointing to the firewall are completely out of card paper and fixed to the synthetical material with staples and a kind of rivets. So I came to the conclusion that I have to replace really all card paper parts. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 2791
Location: USA - KY |
I know the feeling, Dieter.
I used the old glove box liner from my car as a template, and made a new one myself...it was pretty easy. The original glove box liners were flocked in some (if not all) of the F.L. cars, but I didn't bother with that. Flocking sprays are available, but you likely know that already.
Gary Goers has nice glove box liners for sale as well, and folks here seem to like them just fine.
Happy Restoring to you too!
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Expert
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | FIN ME - 2016-09-02 2:47 PM I know the feeling, Dieter. I used the old glove box liner from my car as a template, and made a new one myself...it was pretty easy. The original glove box liners were flocked in some (if not all ) of the F.L. cars, but I didn't bother with that. Flocking sprays are available, but you likely know that already. Gary Goers has nice glove box liners for sale as well, and folks here seem to like them just fine. Happy Restoring to you too! :cool: Hey thanks a lot. The GB liner in my 1956 NY is flocked and I got a replacement from Gary Goers, but it's not installed until today. The GB liner in a 1960 Chrysler, not only 300F, has a more complicated shape and from my experience and pictures - it's not flocked. What tortures me more is the internal heater box (the heater box 715 has two parts, the inner and the outer in the motor bay). First of all I have to find the correct card paper type and then carefully separate the existing card paper from the duct. It's a three dimension item with internal channels. Of course I would add some improvements, because the second "bearing" of the distributor flap (defrost/floor) is in the card paper area and I assume there are small air leaks at the upper junction between the card paper and the synthetic material - I think a small and long piece of aluminum or steel would improve the box. Happy Restoring to you as well. Dieter
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Location: South Central PA | Gary Goers makes a replacement for the heater box too. It uses rivets instead of staples. I replaced mine and it fit really good |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | 60 Windsor - 2016-09-03 4:47 AM Gary Goers makes a replacement for the heater box too. It uses rivets instead of staples. I replaced mine and it fit really good Thanks a lot for your hint. I appreciate your hint very much. As far as I noticed in the catalog 10 from Gary Goers it's the parts number 699 and I have to specify with no air condition. Furthermore I noticed at the same page that there is a replacement for the broken emergency brake release lever handle (702 or 703). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the gas tank. Even though it has many dents at the bottom it looks quite good. As well from what I could see the bottom of the trunk floor looks like new. I couldn't resist and took my multimeter to check the resistance between the sender wire and the cleaned area around the bajonet cover of the sender: 173 ohms. I assume I need many hours just to clean the outside of the gas tank... Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This evening I found the vent tube to the gas tank again and cleaned it inside. I assume it's a straight tube with no one way valve incorporated. Then I cleaned the gas tank at some patches. It looks like the surface has a zinc layer to protect the surface from rusting that is intact. I was able to remove the lock ring and finally dig out the sender unit. So I had a sight into the gas tank. From what I noticed the resting gas is red and the internal of the gas tank has a zinc layer as well. It could be that the gas tank was almost full when the piston #1 sized (judgeing from the surface of the cylinder wall and the condition of the surface of the top of the piston #1). Happy Restoring! I do not give up until my Letter is fully restored. Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Many weeks earlier I removed the upper passenger side bolt between the transmission and bellhouse to measure the thread size. It's 7/16" UNC. So I purchased two hex screws according the lenght addressed by Wizard to build two guides to remove the transmission without damaging the front pump sleeve. Today I removed the resting three hex screws, but not without a damage  ... For sure I need one 7/16" UNC Heli Coil as an insert for the lower thread in the bellhouse at the driver side... Next step is to slide the bigger hydraulic jack sidewards to the rear to remove the transmission. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I hope I catched the transmission at the gravitation center. That's important, otherwise the trans could fell down. For that reason I used a quite decent load securing strap /w ratchet. Prioe to take the picture above I moved the trans/engine combo to a more horizontal position. So it should be easier to move the trans out without damaging the sleeve... Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-10-09 2:30 PM
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Location: Perth Australia | Turn your jack around Dieter
If it is unbalanced, it will fall like that, but the other thing is, you need the transmission to come back pretty much 12 inches.
You will find it much easier to slide the trans back with the jack parallel with the car, then lower the trans and push it out the front.
Only time I have taken a trans out the side is if it slipped off the jack or I wasnt using one.
Dont be tempted to not use one with a torqueflite, they are incredibly heavy
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Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | di_ch_NY56 - 2016-10-09 5:27 PM
Many weeks earlier I removed the upper passenger side bolt between the transmission and bellhouse to measure the thread size. It's 7/16" UNC. So I purchased two hex screws according the lenght addressed by Wizard to build two guides to remove the transmission without damaging the front pump sleeve.
Dieter, can you tell me the screw length you bought ?
I have to do the same as you on my car ...
di_ch_NY56 - 2016-10-09 8:28 PM
I hope I catched the transmission at the gravitation center. That's important, otherwise the trans could fell down. For that reason I used a quite decent load securing strap /w ratchet.
I've been told that it's not very good to jack the transmission at the oil pan, as it might crush.
I think you have to support it on the sides, where the bolts are.
You might want to build a special cradle, that's what I did.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Vincent Thanks a lot for your answers. Yes I was thinking of turning the hydraulic jack for 90 degrees. But in my house I have two truck load securing bands with ratchet. The other option is to route the securing bands around the rear axle, tighten it with the ratchet and use the ratchet to shorten the loop - so the jack would move slowly sidwards. I used according a hint 20 mm ply wood pieces to support the oil pan - the ply wood piece is bigger than the width of the oil pan so I would support the edges of the oil pan. Stud legnth, it's the original content of the mail I got. Strictly I followed that hint: Found the bloody thread – the studs shall be made out of 7/16" X 14 bolts with a length of 3” – just cut off the heads, grind them pointy and saw a screwdriver slot in the ends. Good luck and happy Restoring
Dieter I just purchased a 7/16 UNC helicoil thread repair set in England... |
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Looks like s good set-up for the demounting and lift-down Dieter. I have used this method on all transmissions and it's absolutely safe for the pan. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | After one hour of work (without preparation) the trans is finally off, but still laying on the jack until next weekend. Fortunately it didn't fell down, but ouch it's heavy. First of all I tried to move the hydraulic jack away. But suddenly I realized that the trans didn't separate from the bell house. So I used one load securing band to pull the trans and wiggled the engine up/trans down and reverse until the trans separated. There is not much space at the rear, because the trans is wider than the opening between the attaching points of the torsion bars. I was very surprised how much of trans fluid was still in the trans... so I imagine with no other movement than removing the filler pipe there is never a complete exchange of trans fluid while exchanging the trans fluid... Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great work Dieter! I see that the studs worked just fine and that the front pump drive sleeve is still in position and not damaged in the process.
You can pull out the sleeve and check the status of the drive tabs - sometimes they are worn almost through and sometimes even sheered off.
This is an important part and expensive as well, so take care of it if it's in good shape.
Now you should put sturdy plastic bags over the splines of the shafts and pull tight with straps around the pump neck. Put some plugs in all holes and clean up the transmission outside as well as you can.
This will save some work for the guy that will renovate the transmission and you will save some money as well.
DONT TURN THE TRANSMISSION UPSIDE DOWN (All the eventual gunk in the pan will fall down on the valve body)
When the outside is cleaned, turn the transmission carefully on the side and remove the pan - Clean the pan inside and put it back.
After this you can turn the transmission upside down as you whish.
You can remove the parking brake drum and all the internal brake parts - this must be done any which way when the transmission will be renovated.
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Location: Perth Australia | As a repairer, I would say NOT to clean it internally if your giving it to someone else to repair.
The contents of the pan can be a good indication of what (if any) problems are happening to the trans
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes, that's a Point Mick, but it's easy to take a Picture of the gunk and even save it in a jar.
Any which way, there must be a total teardown of that trans. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I couldn't resist - I went to my Letter again today. I was able to route the hydraulic jack between the RH stands and the trans between the attaching points of the torsion bars. Partially I cleaned the surface of the trans and a very interesting plate appeared. The sleeve - IMHO - doesn't show wear, but the counter part in the torque converter shows very small brow on edge driving the sleeve. From what I could see at the front pump, there are no brows visible - it looks like new... Thank you very much for your comments about the trans. I appreciate it very much. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The sleeve looks to be in an excellent shape Dieter.
When/if the front pump is binding, then the forces on the sleeve makes the tabs to wear down or sheere off even. The state of the sleeve makes me Think that the front pump is still in good shape.
That sign looks promising - never saw anything like it - I'm very curious to see the inside of the pan, perhaps the trans is not wrecked! |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Prior to remove the sleeve I turned the sleeve installed. I could feel some resistance, but IMHO it feels like there is still some trans fluid in the front pump. I could notice that the output shaft was cranking to the same direction like the input shaft... Actually the trans is at the plank. I wore working gloves and grabbed the brake drum combo and the front shaft to lift the trans from the jack to the plank. Either I'm quite strong or the trans is not that heavy... . Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: I don't know if or when Macy Transmission moved over from Oakland CA to Martinez CA. Or if Macy Transmission Martinez CA is quite new in the business compared to the sign on my trans. Either way in Martinez CA apparently was the dealer who sold my Letter to the first customer. |
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great Dieter!
Once you have cleaned the outside and the pan it's a good idea to bring it to an ambient that's not humid (long time storage without fluid might cause Surface rust in the valve body).
Clean the aluminum extension with degreaser and only soft rotating brushes, then the aluminum needs to be protected with a layer of clear coat. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | This afternoon I worked for more than one hour to clean the surface of the iron hog. I turned it to both sides to clean the side surfaces as good as possible. I discovered a trans fluid leak at the throttle lever shaft... After cleaning I turned the trans to the other side and removed the oil pan. Ouch, what a mess. I assume the pictures are showing evidence... Here are the pictures, please enjoy. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the second picture of the internal of the oil pan I took after I cleaned it with house hold paper and my finger nail. I don't know if anybody used an additive or wrong trans fluid. But I assume the shiftings of the trans were not sactisfactory. The adjusting screw of the throttle lever linkage was loose and the adjusting part not in line as expected when I looked at the undercarriage the first time.
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great Dieter! Another step forward!
From what I see, this transmission need to be totally demounted for a damage control and a rebuild.
The parts in the pan seems to be metal chips and residue.
Further, I think that there have been a coolant liquide leak sometimes before but this was most probably fixed because I see no water drops anywhere.
Actually, I have never seen that greenish yellow residue before in a transmission.
Hopefully someone will kick in here ......
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for your quotation about the iron hog of my Letter. While looking through my glasses I couldn't find some metallic residues. I don't know if these only are visible while my phone used the flash to take the picture. I assume this is the reason somebody installed a later generation radiator into my Letter. At Mr. Strubs I saw a disassembled iron hog on the work bench. The internals of the overrunning clutch where completely destroyed and all internal parts were rusty. Mr. Strub told me that this was caused by coolant in the transmission fluid at his station wagon. From the stamped numbers and numbers casted in at the other side I'm sure it's not the original transmission. But I have no clue where it is from. At this point I only could say better this transmission than none. The original transmission of my Letter I assume is still laying around on a back jard of a mechanic shop. I only hope it's not that transmisson sold about five years ago at epain for 5k. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: Perth Australia | The greenish stuff may be a fluorescent dye, I use it A/C systems as a leak tracer, but it works in most things that are oil lubricated
But yep, that needs a really good going through and I would make sure that the bands and clutch packs are replaced
The bands for mine were re bonded locally (brake places do it) and the clutch packs and seals ect came from fatsco
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot Mik I just ordered a master kit from Fatsco for the A488 transmission of my Letter. I came to the conclusion to bring my A488 to Mr. Strub. He's not far from my home. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-10-23 12:55 PM
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | That's the best for you Dieter, it will save you a lot of Money for the transport.
Keep us posted as many are interested to follow the renovation and the eventual damages. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | From what I got out the 1949 904 A488 was the standard torqueflite for all senior Chrysler models (and Imperial) except for the 300F. I hope it's possible to modify it to meet the specification of the 1949 808 transsmission. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Last weekend I removed the emergency brake at the iron hog. One more step forward was the repairing the broken tab at the switch ontop of the wiper gear. I used just instant glue and took care to mount the tab the same way it was. Furthermore I cut a piece of a very thin skin of a yogurth cup. I assume it's PE. The piece I mounted into the recession of the bottom case of the slider with contacts with two tabs. My idea was to lower the force to move the contacts out of the off position. My wiper motor parks now again. Because I connected both the wiper motor and the coordinator switch to my laboraroy power supply I used a vacuum pump to engage the vacuum switch at the coordinator switch. Results ON at 7 in.Hg vac OFF below 3 Hg vac Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the blue wire is only hot if the wiper switch is at the OFF position. It's the wire soldered to one side of the switch ontop of the wiper gear |
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Location: Williams California | wizard - 2016-10-22 11:23 AM
Great Dieter! Another step forward!
From what I see, this transmission need to be totally demounted for a damage control and a rebuild.
The parts in the pan seems to be metal chips and residue.
Further, I think that there have been a coolant liquide leak sometimes before but this was most probably fixed because I see no water drops anywhere.
Actually, I have never seen that greenish yellow residue before in a transmission.
Hopefully someone will kick in here ......
Wiz,
The greenish residue is from old ATF that is breaking down. Pretty common for a car that has been setting for years. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks Big M My Letter was under a rotting blue woven plane for six years until the seller discovered it. As the engine bay looks the hood was open for six years and no air cleaners were on top of the carbs. The engine sized (BTW) while that owner didn't recognise a massive air leak at the cross ram. First it caused a broken cylinder head gasket (between a coolant channel and the cylinder wall) and finally the top of the piston #1 melted and the piston sized gravely. I think the replacement engine didn't last long. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Because I wear a plaster on my right hand underarm I couldn't do much at my Letter. So I decided over the last few days to work at the instruments. Good news is that the oscillator out of my Letter works for hours with no interruption. The output voltage is 274 VAC at 14.4 VDC at the input. I decided to use 14.4V because it's the voltage I expect when the engine is running and the generator or alternator charging. The instruments are very bright at the max. voltage and working until the input voltage drops below 5 VDC. The scale of the temp instruent is darker and stops glowing a little bit higher than all other instruments. It needs a further inverstigation. At the clock the second pointer is not glowing like the minute and hour pointers. My friend wrote me, that this is normal. At the tachometer the needle is not glowing. But when I wiggle the case I could hear something moving inside. I could imagine that it's the broken Lintz wire.... Either way to rechrome the ring, replace the lens or the rubber gasket, repair the electroluminescent parts or restore the mechanic it's necessary to remove the ring. The seam of the ring is folded like the door skin around the door frame. Some guys are addressing that the ring is not removable. But I assume if I'll slice the seam to the center of the case (like spokes on a bicycle) to get tabs of about 1/10 of an inch I could separate the front ring from the case. BTW, the tachometer is mounted from the back - so the screws a tighening the ring to the case... Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Last week I removed the main brake cylinder, the brake power booster and from the other side the pedal /w attaching plate. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: Many of you might notice, that I came to the decision to flip my project bottom up. Because it's not clear at this time where my body will go to restore - I put it on hold (Sweden, Switzerland or Serbia). So I'll let restore the trans, the engine, the chrome trim, all parts of the passenger compartment (seats, door panels, and so on) in the near future
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The bore diameters of my engine (a factory refurbished 413 HP engine) 1: 106.66 mm [4.199 in] 2: 106.80 mm [4.205 in] 3: 106.86 mm [4.207 in] 4: 106.86 mm [4.207 in] 5: 106.88 mm [4.208 in] 6: 106.78 mm [4.204 in] 7: 106.60 mm [4.197 in] 8: 106.78 mm [4.204 in] The nominal bore diameter of a 413 engine is 4.1875 (4.19 in), 106.13 mm. With the first oversize from the factory (0.02 in) the bore diameter increases to 4.2075 in, 106.8705 mm. It's clear that the cylinder #1 has a smaller diameter. It has surface rust (like plates) on top of the piston at the cylinder wall.
For to measure the diameter I used a sliding caliper with a resolution of 0.02 mm (0.0008 in). I only measured the top 10 mm (0.4 in) from the deck. So there is no statement possible about the whole length of the bore. All depends on the surface of the cylinder #1 if just honing is possible or if I'll have to use the next oversize (Egge: 0.03, 0.06, factory: 0.04). Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-12-06 8:59 AM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | These are both windshield wiper pivots. I arranged it like it were mounted on the firewall of my Letter. The RH pivot has the parts number, but the LH one looks really peculiar. Anybody knows where it's from? The length of the crank is (almost) identical as the mounting flange is from the length and width of the mounting plate. Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | To let the engine (413 HP?) restore at a professional restorer's (next year) I plan to purchase a low rise dual plane intake manifold plus a 600 to 750 cfm carb on it. It's because I would like to get a broken in engine (my wish). What do you think I could expect at the dyno /w the 300F camshaft and eventually matched intake and exhaust runners at the cylinder heads and eventually a stock 440 distributor? Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: with this procedure I assume it's guaranteed that the engine would run /w the cross ram and the stock 2903s carbs mounted. Even though I have to retard the camshaft if not mounted like it was prior to the restoration.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the center link - not complete, but enough to move it away. Then I removed the oil pan. I'm sorry for the bad quality of the pictures. It was cold. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: little rock, AR | This is what my '50 Buick oil pan looked like when I removed it. People don't realize what oil does after sitting for 30 years.
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Happy New Year to all my friends First work in this year was to remove the #2 main cap at the engine. It was not looking promising. Then, after cleaning it, I mounted it again, but not with full torque at the bolts. Because of what I saw I decided to remove the cap # as well. The result in the babbit bearing cap was even worse. The broken out chips were stored at about 60 degree CW. I cleaned the parts and mounted that cap too. Time to remove the engine now. From what I saw, the hex nuts of the cap #5 are not accessible with a hex socket... Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: I just noticed for the cap #5 that first I have to remove the holder of the rear crankshaft seal...
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | It could be that the bearings at the crankshaft were overheated most probabely due to the lack of lubrification. But now the engine is almost ready to remove. I'm organising two assistant people locally to remove the hood first. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the hood and finally the engine. The removal of the hood was not state of the art (truck driver should know what's wrong), but I was all alone. All bolts of the torque converter housing are removed, but the housing sticks. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | A little bit work over the last few days....
Dieter
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IMG_3582_resized.JPG (73KB - 480 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1725
Location: Alaska | It is amazing how much better the detergents are in the newer oils, ( I assume). I have pulled newer engines apart with over 200,000 miles on them and they are so much cleaner. |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Rolland you're right, but for modern oils a flat bottom tappet engine needs ZDDP additive for sure. Today again I did a little bit of work. My project is moving slow, but steay like a slug Dieter
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IMG_3601_resized.JPG (452KB - 472 downloads)
IMG_3602_resized.JPG (429KB - 484 downloads)
IMG_3603_resized.JPG (421KB - 468 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | The crankshaft out of the engine of my Letter Dieter
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IMG_3608_resized.JPG (498KB - 453 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | This afternoon two employees of an engine restoration company are coming to pick up my engine to restore. I'm happy! Happy Restoring Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Since late afternoon 01/22/2017 the engine of my Letter is at the engine restorer's. On 01/25/2017 I visited the company and had a sight of a very good company. My engine is again in a mounting stand and the drivers side cylinder bank is upright. There is special fluid on top of the piston #1. I told the boss that when the piston is out, I'll visit them again. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 4955
| that was quick! |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | This afternoon I wanted to buy a spray can of Cummins Apex red to paint the cross rams. But I got a notification that the company cannot ship the can overseas. So I have to chase for another solution. Is there a color close to Cummens Apex red in the RAL chart? Happy Restoring Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | mikes2nd - 2017-01-26 4:22 PM that was quick! Thanks Because this company is very good in modifying and calibrating engines I do not get angry when my engine comes back with more torque and horse power than addressed by the technical sheet of Chrysler. The boss showed and told me about Aston Martin engines, stroked and bored (4.3 to 5.0, and the old Aston Martin, 5.3 V8 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_V8) with a block at least as big as the RB engine), a modified V12 Aston Martin engine (all aluminum with surface in the cylinder bores of Sulzer Metco), a 361 under restoration (pistons and camshaft already installed) and a finished 340 LA engine where they could organize a new 340 block (very rare block he said). Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the boss told me that the contemporary fuel has a faster burning velocity than the old leaded gas. So the engines need a modified ignition calibration. He recommended Swiss 98 Octane for my Beast as well. |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday afternoon, evening and this morning I was cleaning the complete throttle linkage from the throttle pedal to the carburetors. Now all screws and hex nuts are moving free like new ??. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I just wonder... I want to remove the fresh air cut off plate of the allweather heater system in my Letter. Of course I do not want to destroy the plate. Anybody an idea how to remove it without destroying either the rubber (still in good, soft condition), the shaft or the body. Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you very much. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_3093_resized.JPG (217KB - 458 downloads)
fresh air cut off plate.jpg (121KB - 445 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I noticed after a further investigation, that the pivot point is not a going through shaft from one holder (welded at the firewall) to the other one. But a pin, about the length of an inch. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_3640_resized.JPG (308KB - 473 downloads)
IMG_3641_resized.JPG (322KB - 456 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Look my friends, A big stone (rock size) will fall down from my heart when the body is straight and all rust issues have gone. All other subjects are - compared to the body - just peanuts for me. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | If I remember right, he other pin goes in to cut of plate wehwn you bush it. You have to lubricae it first with WD40 or such aerosol oil.
Perhaps you have already noticed it by now |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Jari Thanks a lot. The air shut off plate is already out of my Letter. I used a blade screw driver and drove the passenger side pin back. I noticed that on each side there's a felt washer to inhibit noises. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | At the moment the brake booster, canister type, is in my barn and I'm working on. I cleaned the canister outside and inside, all the rubber parts between the piston perimeter and the bottom of the canister are good. But after assembling (I didn't separate the piston rod and cover plate) I noticed that there is a slight leakage at the piston rod gasket around the piston rod... Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: second trail: when I apply vacuum and the trigger Nylon button is pressed in, the vacuum is steady. At that time when I release the button, the fork moves out quite quick, but not for a long time - it moves back slowly. I assume this is normal, isn't it? When I apply the Nylon button again when the fork is out (brake assisting mode) the fork moves back quite fast. My careful consideration was, that when I release the brake pedal the Nylon button will be applied again.
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2017-04-17 1:08 PM
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IMG_3857_resized.JPG (308KB - 433 downloads)
IMG_3858_resized.JPG (432KB - 443 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday night I performed a really small work. All alone I pressed out the windshield and the rear window. For that I layed with my back on the floor and used my feet to press at the top (alternating left side, right side) until the glass was out of the weatherstrip or the weatherstrip away from the surrounding body lip. Now resting is about one labor day of work: the fragments of the old exhaust system, the fuel line and the brake lines. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_3980_resized.JPG (300KB - 430 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | A really big rock will fall down from my heart, when the body is fully restored, painted and ready for the assembling process. I catched the most important areas (beside the rear wall of the trunk and partially the trunk floor) with pictures to show it to you and eventually getting a quote or an offer where to bring the body to. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: in my eyes it makes ways more sense first to restore the body and following the engine to mount it into the fully restored body at any time.
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IMG_3983_c-pillar_LH_rear.JPG (314KB - 432 downloads)
IMG_3984_c-pillar_LH_from_outside_top.JPG (335KB - 438 downloads)
IMG_3985-c-pillar_LH_from_LH_side.JPG (391KB - 424 downloads)
IMG_3991_c-pillar_LH_inside_quite_ok.JPG (258KB - 421 downloads)
IMG_3992_c-pillar_LH_inside_ok_from_quarter_window_sight.JPG (253KB - 431 downloads)
IMG_3989_rear_window_frame_box_still_here_1_LH.JPG (388KB - 417 downloads)
IMG_3990_rear_window_frame_box_still_here_2_LH.JPG (209KB - 467 downloads)
IMG_3986_rear_window_frame_box_gone_1_RH.JPG (282KB - 420 downloads)
IMG_3987_rear_window_frame_box_gone_2_RH.JPG (305KB - 417 downloads)
IMG_3988_rear_window_frame_box_gone_3_RH.JPG (282KB - 424 downloads)
IMG_3995_RH_door_rust_through_front_lower_corner.JPG (167KB - 421 downloads)
IMG_3996_RH__door_front_structure_frame_rusting_through_from_rear.JPG (111KB - 418 downloads)
IMG_3997_RH_door_front_structure_frame_rusting_through_front.JPG (265KB - 422 downloads)
IMG_3993_RH_front_accident_fender_bent_cowl_bent.JPG (135KB - 407 downloads)
IMG_3994_RH_front_accident_fender_bent_headlight_low_pointing_weird.JPG (247KB - 424 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great going Dieter! I don't think that Jan Fridberg reads all posts here on the forum, try to send him a link - now he can see better the state and the worst damages. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | wizard - 2017-05-27 4:21 PM Great going Dieter! I don't think that Jan Fridberg reads all posts here on the forum, try to send him a link - now he can see better the state and the worst damages. Thanks dear friend, I assume it's sunny clear that I'm not keen to pay hourly wages of almost sFr. 100.- or more like here in the ridiculous expensiv Switzerland. Take care and Happy Restoring Dieter BTW: I'm earnestly thinking about leaving my home country for ever |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I removed the brake lines at the front sub frame, the junction block and the brake line to the rear axle. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: resting are - the brake line on the rear axle - the fragments of the exhaust system - the fuel line |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9417
Location: So. Cal | Congratulations Dieter. The rust looks relatively minor. You may want to purchase a mig welder and start practicing so you can fix most of that yourself. It is a great skill to have and doesn't require a lot of effort to become reasonably good at it. The large flat panels are the hardest to prevent from warping, so leave the outer door to a pro. But the small holes on the inner sheet metal are great places to get started on yourself. Unfortunately, California isn't much better than $100/hr. You are lucky to find a place that will work for $70/hr. and the quality isn't a guarantee. |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Look, I made two promisements to a) my mum not to run into depts because of the project and b) to the landlords to get the place in the barn, not to weld in the barn, mostly made out of wood.. So I have to leave ok for another option for the body. I beg your pardon. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | On Saturday I was able to catch the radio at the local post office. It works perfect with a cristal clear sound in he DAB mode. Big thank you to Hemidenis for his astonishing effort to bring my radio back to live. I know we both went through a nightmare many times during the long time we worked together. Finally the radio project went very successful. Big thank you again for Hemidenis. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | This afternoon I mounted the hood all alone (a very dangerous action all alone  ). After mounting I cleaned the perimeter (roof, A pillars and bottom) of the windshield opening. Neither the rear window opening nor the windshield opening (seam to mount the corresponding weatherstrip) are rusty. All around the color is nice at the seam... So I just need to remove the gas line and the isolation mat inside (passenger compartment) at the firewall. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_4103_overwiew actual.JPG (442KB - 397 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | You've done a lot now Dieter, soon time for to fix the rust issues. I would suggest a final check-up of all the documentation you've done so that all is ready for the mounting when that time comes.
I always think that I have enough photos and documentation, but then Murphy prooves me wrong |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thank you very much Wizard for your encouraging words. In the mean time (to be precise, today ) I got a new contact at FB from Morgan Johansson, William Svensson living in Malung SWE as well as Jan Fridberg. William restored his 300G and Morgan proposed him to me as a master. So we discussed many things and I provided William some actual pictures. Actually we are discussing the transportation and who'll do the paint job. Except of the damage of the passenger rear wheel well and the windshield (I have to organise a new windshield myself, tinted (original color) with a smoke band at the top preferred) William got all these pictures plus some older ones as well. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2017-07-09 10:31 AM
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IMG_4124_crack in the windshield got bigger.JPG (245KB - 399 downloads)
IMG_4125_drivers side rear corner rear view.JPG (283KB - 404 downloads)
IMG_4126_drivers side rear corner side view.JPG (313KB - 404 downloads)
IMG_4128_c pillar drivers side.JPG (311KB - 397 downloads)
IMG_4129_holes in the rear section of the trunk floor passenger side.JPG (144KB - 403 downloads)
IMG_4130_front view with damage at passenger side.JPG (257KB - 394 downloads)
IMG_4131_top view with glass removed.JPG (278KB - 394 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I got the message from Magnus Stade, that my steering wheel of my Letter is restored. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I got a wonderful message from my friend in Sweden. The steering wheel has arriven. As an evidence I got pictures. Big thank you to Magnus Stade who restored the steering wheel from my Letter. It looks so wonderful and an evidence of a superb craftmanship. I assume when my Letter is ready to do the first test ride, from then on I'll carry a terry towel in the footroom behind the drivers seat to cover the steering wheel and the dash pad (to purchase, on my wish list) when my Letter will be on a car meeting or a parking lot under free sky. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: very slow but steadily progress at my project.
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IMG_2142_restored steering wheel.JPG (447KB - 387 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | This afternoon I removed the ornaments of the flite sweep decklid I got from Charlie (but not without a damage cause by a employee of Fedex). I used the vacuum cleaner to remove the baken dust and a thin welding wire (rust free) to free the drain tube. It was very humid between the deck lid recession and the hub cap like ornament. I think this area needs a special treatment of color type to resist the humid. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_4271_decklid from tailfin - ornaments removed.JPG (375KB - 393 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | The bowl of the ornament has one (!) pin hole. That's not much. I discussed with a well known MoPar guy in Switzerland the restoration of the body of my Letter. We agreed a price (/wo transports, sand blasting, painting). But he knows a good sand blaster and a perfect painter team (two brothers) who treats a customers car like it would be their own. At the facility there are two cars that have to leave, so I got the prospective that within about one month my Letter will go to the facility of this guy. A big stone is falling down from my heart. The piston of the first cylinder is still in the block. I payed the first down payment to allow the work of a cylinder grinding shop. We'll see what the result will be. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the roof rail weatherstrip I'll need for my 1960 Chrysler Hardtop is either W13 or W15 weatherstrip profile in conjunction of a set of #69 front ends of the Gary Goers catalog, page 38 (document cat10B)?
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2017-09-17 10:46 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | back on the wheels again, ready to transport my Letter to a restorer for the body work. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the stuff in front of my Letter is from another family. I more than complete house hold...
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2017-10-14 7:10 AM
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IMG_4366_back on the wheels again.JPG (320KB - 384 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 4955
| going to be an amazing car when done. honestly it doesn't look that bad. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great going Dieter! I bet you're very pleased that the car is ready for the rust repair works now! Think forward to the next stage of the works when you will start to mount all the Clean and renovated parts and units back in the car. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Now finally my Letter is at the restorer shop for the body restoring. There is a load of work to perform to bring my Letter back to the original condition (body wise). Because the body restorer is quite close to me (about 40 min driving with a car) I'll visit him frequently to look at the progress and discuss issues (not detected until now). Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_4412_I'm waiting.JPG (278KB - 366 downloads)
IMG_4415_going_to_the_body_restorer.JPG (391KB - 383 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | A big step Dieter, I can imagine that this is a huge relief for you. Now it will be a long wait until you get your car back again, but then the fun part begins.
Keep us posted! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | I remember that stage nearly 5 years ago
I did the bodywork in my own Garage at left "dirty work side"
Edited by Adventurer 60 2017-10-29 5:15 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | Is it going to be blasted and rotisserie?
In my case it was all worth of it. I first started, lying on a floor and desperately trying to weld, cut and grind hoping good results...
Then I drove 700 km and picked up the rotisserie that was made for F by the firend of mine , it was the best decission ever, doing body work has never been so fun
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Jari: thanks a lot for your input. For sure I can imagine that it's ways easier to work at the body. But I do not perform the body work myself, but Emil and his body worker (a turkian guy working like a wizard). My Letter is on a two pillar automotive lift. At least they could walk upright under the body,. But they have to work above their heads, what could be tortouring after a long time with no break. Some pictures of the progress... the name of the file is speaking for itself.... I was just surprised of how much dirt accumulated on several places. As far as I got out, none of the 1960 cars was painted at the area above the mounting structure to the subframe... Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_4421_suframe RH side straight again.JPG (285KB - 365 downloads)
IMG_4424_inside view RH front fender - reconstructed.JPG (271KB - 387 downloads)
IMG_4430_cowl area with on fender - look how much dirt accumulated here.JPG (274KB - 364 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The progress seems to go on in a steady way and the result looks good Dieter! Thanks' for posting all Pictures - a good help for the Chrysler '60 owners. Keep us posted. |
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Expert
Posts: 1203
Location: SWITZERLAND | Happy for you Dieter, my "old" friend Emil is doing this job for you at resonable costs and good SWISS quality (similar as Swedish!).
Soon we well not see anymore rusty parts here, but "new" ones as Original when your baby will be born.
Here the other baby of Emil in his hand (year 2000), no rust, all clean.
Go on with luck! - SERGE - 
Edited by sermey 2017-11-10 9:24 PM
 (2000-05-21 Emils Baby.jpg)
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2000-05-21 Emils Baby.jpg (120KB - 365 downloads)
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | sermey - 2017-11-10 3:16 AM Happy for you Dieter, my "old" friend Emil is doing this job for you at resonable costs and good SWISS quality (similar as Swedish!).
Soon we well not see anymore rusty parts here, but "new" ones as Original when your baby will be born.
Here the other baby of Emil in his hand (year 2000), no rust, all clean.
Go on with luck! - SERGE - Thanks a lot Serge. Is the baby the sister or brother of Cheyenne (apparently the older daugher)? Take care, Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | This afternoon I met Emil again. Two guys were working at my Letter, but I didn't talk to them, just with Emil. A steady progress . I just showed Emil the rust damage at the front structure of the passenger door as a reminder not to forget. Emil explainded all work they performed this week. He didn't know what the recession (rain drainage) is for. I told him from my mind, that early 60 Chryslers had this recession instead of a tube drainage like e.g. Jari installed in his G. The rear reinforcement bar is bent back and all surrounding sheet metals replaced. The inner rocker and trunk floor section has been replaced because all these parts were crushed by an accident. At this pictures you'll notice the rear end of the 300 H Cheyenne is restoring (I asked Emil for the name of his daughter). Next Saturday I'm going to remove the tar proctection in the passenger room and at the underside of the passenger floor.... I promised it. I think the names of the pictures are explaining enough now. If not just PM me. Happy Restoring! Dieter
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IMG_4446_passenger rear quarter view.JPG (326KB - 368 downloads)
IMG_4447_rear view with the H of Cheyenne.JPG (426KB - 371 downloads)
IMG_4448_driver side rear undercarriage, accident damage repaired.JPG (424KB - 368 downloads)
IMG_4449_drivers side front, quarter lower section, repaired.JPG (359KB - 382 downloads)
IMG_4450_drvier side rear, accident repaired.JPG (381KB - 374 downloads)
IMG_4451_passenger side rear detail, rain drainage.JPG (374KB - 389 downloads)
IMG_4452_the thrash can is filling quite quick, part 1.JPG (358KB - 361 downloads)
IMG_4453_the trash can if filling quite fast, part 2.JPG (288KB - 392 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1203
Location: SWITZERLAND | Thanks a lot Serge. Is the baby the sister or brother of Cheyenne (apparently the older daugher)? Dieter, this baby IS Cheyenne, look at the date of the picture (2000). You may have seen her now, 17 years old. When your Letter will have become rustfree and ready, she will be as well be ready for marry . . . . still rustfree! Friendly - SERGE -
Edited by sermey 2017-11-11 11:01 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I worked almost seven hours with no food and no beverage to remove the tar layer on the passenger room floor. More work with the heat gun at the undercarriage tomorrow.
Beside the works performed and documented with a picture, the rust damage at the passenger side door (top front of the inner structure) is repaired and also a rust hole near the mounting point of the body to the subframe (very rare damage according Emil). Still there are small adjusting issues at the rear lamp (driver side). Remember, the complete corner is reconstructed due to an older accident. Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: at the passenger side c pillar was a crack in the fender at the front area of the c pillar - repaired...
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2017-11-18 1:29 PM
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 (IMG_4506_drivers side weatherstrip channel reconstructed.JPG)
 (IMG_4507_passengerside weatherstrip channel as it is.JPG)
 (IMG_4508_rear end complete.JPG)
 (IMG_4509_passenger side c pillar repaired.JPG)
 (IMG_4511_inner fender mounted with radiator yoke.JPG)
 (IMG_4514 drivers side c pillar reconstructed.JPG)
 (IMG_4516_deck lid adjusted.JPG)
 (IMG_4517_front end check with grille frame.JPG)
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IMG_4505_rear end reconstructed.JPG (414KB - 466 downloads)
IMG_4506_drivers side weatherstrip channel reconstructed.JPG (387KB - 441 downloads)
IMG_4507_passengerside weatherstrip channel as it is.JPG (367KB - 455 downloads)
IMG_4508_rear end complete.JPG (341KB - 434 downloads)
IMG_4509_passenger side c pillar repaired.JPG (441KB - 451 downloads)
IMG_4511_inner fender mounted with radiator yoke.JPG (486KB - 461 downloads)
IMG_4514 drivers side c pillar reconstructed.JPG (450KB - 448 downloads)
IMG_4516_deck lid adjusted.JPG (356KB - 459 downloads)
IMG_4517_front end check with grille frame.JPG (398KB - 447 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | I'm happy to see that there's a steady progress on your car Dieter! I bet there's less butterflies in your stomach when you look at your car now.... |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks Wizard (Sven) for your encouraging words.
On Sunday I was working for 11 hours with the heat gun and two scrapers (a painters scraper and a wood worker scraper). My open question is now: the routing of the weatherstrip between the inner and the outer front fender. Originally the weatherstrip was starting about two inches above the side fin of the outer front fender. But the question in discussion with Emil rose the question why not up to the corner at the inner fender... Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: I almost cleaned the complete front suspension (steering link, lower control arms), a part of the propeller shaft tunnel and the floor area next to the tunnel...
 (IMG_4522_the inner side of the hood is cleaned (insulator pad).JPG)
 (IMG_4523_pass compartment floor no tar anymore.JPG)
 (IMG_4526_drivers side foot area clean and no rust at all.JPG)
 (IMG_4527_passenger side foot area clean and no rust at all.JPG)
 (IMG_4528_inner fender to fender weatherstrip routing.JPG)
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IMG_4522_the inner side of the hood is cleaned (insulator pad).JPG (487KB - 441 downloads)
IMG_4523_pass compartment floor no tar anymore.JPG (474KB - 439 downloads)
IMG_4526_drivers side foot area clean and no rust at all.JPG (469KB - 458 downloads)
IMG_4527_passenger side foot area clean and no rust at all.JPG (404KB - 448 downloads)
IMG_4528_inner fender to fender weatherstrip routing.JPG (315KB - 459 downloads)
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday evening I cleaned the ball joint areas on both front suspensions plus some more around the propeller shaft tunnel area. I think I do not have to remove the color, just the tar... About the area around the position light/direction light case I'm really unhappy, It's ways too big (visible from the back)... Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4538 upper control arm LH.JPG)
 (IMG_4541 lower control arm LH.JPG)
 (IMG_4540 upper control arm RH.JPG)
 (IMG_4542 lower control arm RH.JPG)
 (IMG_4549 RH front light and position light installed.JPG)
 (IMG_4543 RH fender front rear view - position light area is ways to big.JPG)
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IMG_4538 upper control arm LH.JPG (288KB - 439 downloads)
IMG_4541 lower control arm LH.JPG (265KB - 425 downloads)
IMG_4540 upper control arm RH.JPG (267KB - 449 downloads)
IMG_4542 lower control arm RH.JPG (302KB - 430 downloads)
IMG_4549 RH front light and position light installed.JPG (240KB - 436 downloads)
IMG_4543 RH fender front rear view - position light area is ways to big.JPG (379KB - 427 downloads)
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Early this week I called the company that's restoring the engine of my Letter. The engine is at the cylinder grinder's shop since weeks, the first piston is out (I'm so happy). At the time of the phone call the ultra sonic probe was not working correctly (at least a recalibration should be necessary) so I have to call again, next week, to hear if the block is still useable and what the next steps are. I'n the mean time I'm removing the tar layer at the undercarrigage and wheel housings. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | News from the engine restorer's house: The block succeeded the ultra sonic test. All cylinders have "enough meat" around. After my specific question I got the answer, that the cylinders have the original bore size, never ever shaved to an oversize step. From the impression of the good cylinder walls I think the engine didn't get much miles on it(no ultra high milage engine for sure). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Really good news Dieter! Another "fear factor" passed. |
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| that floorpan is very nice. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: tailFinland | Heres a tip for you Dieter. Drain hole, tube and hose. Trunk lid surround will never rot again
 (WP_001586.jpg)
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WP_001586.jpg (217KB - 400 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | properly painted metal does not rust. drilling holes in a panel to prevent holes? simply install the weatherstripping with polyurethane sealer (they leak from underneath) and you will never have a leaking trunk seal again.
and that hole can't prevent rust out of trunk edge if it isn't properly painted. its called capillarity. water seeps between the seal and the seal channel whether you drill a hole in the panel or not. and it will stay there for a long time. sealer is the only thing that can prevent that.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-12-21 4:59 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Actually I didn't count the hours nor how many weekends I'm working at the removal of the tar layer. But today I finished the passenger side inside of the front fender. From what I saw during removing of the tar layer, my Letter is rock solid. I hope after a full day of work tomorrow the drivers side inner and outer fender are finished as well from my side. All this work I'm performing to prepare my Letter for sand blasting that will follow quite soon as well. ASAP after finishing the sand blasting (under carriage, front subframe, passenger room floor, trunk floor, outer skin) my Letter will be transported to a painting company... :). Big thank you for all of your comments, Happy New Year! Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: I do not do sand blasting myself... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7194
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Some of the original trunk lips had the drain holes and tubes installed, others didn't My early production US built 60 Chrysler has none. The Canadian built 60 DeSoto I used to own had them. Member Islander62 has a 1961 Canadian built Saratoga that has them. I've been told by another member that NONE of the USA built 1961 Chrysler or DeSotos had the drain holes. I have not put any drain holes in my own as the car is rarely out in the rain. The lip is well painted and the weatherstrip is solidly glued in so when the deck lid is shut it compounds the pressure of the rubber strip to stay sealed at the base. The design of this deck lid and lip is such a bad design that it can't help but rust out over the years if it stays wet, once the weatherstrip perishes / comes loose etc. then water gets under the rubber, sits and rusts the lip out. My own car was from the L.A. area and fortunately stayed dry for 50 years and has no rust issues at all.
Edited by imopar380 2018-01-02 5:05 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Keep on Dieter, keep on and soon your car will be painted. A total different situation with a clean nice empty body for to mount the cleaned and renovated parts back in.
My car is early production as well and did not have the recessions - since I drive a lot and also in rain, I noticed that the water always remained in the corners of the trunk lip, exactly where the most cars has a rust issue. I made tools for to make recessions and made my own stainless trunk drains, as the reproduced ones leaves much to wish for. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | After hours spent to produce a template of the carrier of the quarter window weatherstrip (at the B pillar, seals the lower front end of the quarter window to the door opening) I decided to clean the kick up in the floor plan as well. Because it's a Letter car and not just a 0815 car. So you see that I'm not completely finished with removiing the under coating.... Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4646_clean_the_kick_up_compltely.JPG)
 (IMG_4647_clean_inner_fender_pass_side.JPG)
 (IMG_4648_inner_fender_drivers_side_quite_clean.JPG)
 (IMG_4649_wheel_house_drivers_side_needs_cleaning.JPG)
Attachments
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IMG_4646_clean_the_kick_up_compltely.JPG (392KB - 403 downloads)
IMG_4647_clean_inner_fender_pass_side.JPG (405KB - 411 downloads)
IMG_4648_inner_fender_drivers_side_quite_clean.JPG (384KB - 408 downloads)
IMG_4649_wheel_house_drivers_side_needs_cleaning.JPG (429KB - 391 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | di_ch_NY56 - 2018-01-06 10:54 AM
....Because it's a Letter car and not just a 0815 car....
What is an 0815 car? The metalwork I see looks very good. And the fact that they let you work on it yourself as well means you picked a good shop.
Edited by Powerflite 2018-01-06 4:06 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | Powerflite - 2018-01-06 4:04 PM
di_ch_NY56 - 2018-01-06 10:54 AM
....Because it's a Letter car and not just a 0815 car....
What is an 0815 car?
ha, theres no 08/15 fl car. 08/15 is german slang for average or "run of the mill". in use since the 1. WW since it was something about the MG 08/15. conflicting storys about how the MG 08/15 became a synonym for average but from what i heard it was the mediocre quality of the 08/15.
Edited by 1960fury 2018-01-06 6:52 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yes I know, I was not addressing an FL car, but any car else - especially a very decent daily driver roller coaster. Happy Restoring Dieter BTW: 0815 is used in Switzerland for facts and circumstancies that are very decent (below expectations and below average) |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I cleaned the rest of the kick up of the floor panel from the trunk side and both quarter sheets up to the fins as long there was under coating. While cleaning all the debris I scrapped off I discovered one more rust issue. it makes me not very happy, but Emil said it will be repaired as well after the sheet metal repair man returns... (most probably early February). It's a very uncommon place, but I do not wonder. it's a result of the big rust hole in the C pillar . Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4651_reinforcement below the lower rear window area drivers side view.JPG)
 (IMG_4654_reinforcement below the lower rear window area middle.JPG)
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IMG_4651_reinforcement below the lower rear window area drivers side view.JPG (360KB - 428 downloads)
IMG_4654_reinforcement below the lower rear window area middle.JPG (419KB - 419 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | That complete area never had any primer or paint from the factory, in fact, most of the cars have at least surface rust there.
Most probably, as you write, the leaking C-pillar poured in an exessive amount of water in the trunk over the years.
After that the damage is repaired and sand blasted, it's a very good idea to at least prime the sheetmetal. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7194
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | I often wondered why they didn't prime or paint that area.... This is what mine looks like today, still original, and un-painted underneath the parcel shelf. I have thought about cleaning it up and priming it but....haven't done it yet.
 (shelf_underside.JPG)
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shelf_underside.JPG (109KB - 436 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | I've never seen this area in such a good state Ian, I came to think of Eastwood DiamondClear Satin http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-diamond-satin-gloss-aerosol.html
for to keep the original look and for to protect for further surface rust |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Wizard and Ian Big thank you for your comments over the whole timespan since I‘m the owner of my Letter. Big thank you to all forum members who put their comment into this thread as well. FYI: it‘s not the only area with no (at least) primer... please look under the dashboard (structure of the body, when the dashboard is out), the reinforcement between the kick board and the outer shell of the body structure to mention just the surfaces in the extended passenger compartment. I think it’s not convenient to paint there and needs ways more time than allowed at the assembly line. In my case... I‘m going to wire brush all these areas. These are the only areas I‘ll use epoxy primer out of rattle cans. Prior to start assembling my Letter... Happy Restoring Dieter |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Sven In the mean time this is one of my favorite movies at Youtube.. it shows and expains (for me) why a professional paint job like necessary at my Letter is that expensive. Even if a professional industrial painter told me last Saturday, that he never ever could bill all the hours he spent on a project. This is the reason I want to get a professional painter that treats a customer car like his own baby. Because I would like to get a laiser straight body like the red metallic 300F convertible is from Matts A.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw0ObOdWnRE Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-01-08 6:55 AM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | From my restorer of the engine I'm getting back my engine fully painted. I could choose what color I want. So my decision fell to RAL 9005 semi gloss. The restorer mentioned orange, but this color is not time correct (but correct for e.g. a 426 HEMI). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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| di_ch_NY56 - 2018-01-08 6:53 AM Hi Sven In the mean time this is one of my favorite movies at Youtube.. it shows and expains (for me) why a professional paint job like necessary at my Letter is that expensive. Even if a professional industrial painter told me last Saturday, that he never ever could bill all the hours he spent on a project. This is the reason I want to get a professional painter that treats a customer car like his own baby. Because I would like to get a laiser straight body like the red metallic 300F convertible is from Matts A.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw0ObOdWnRE Happy Restoring! Dieter this is essentially how i paint in my driveway/garage booth. I try to stay away from trees :) but its alot more work. Its near impossible to find someone who "cares" about your car, its not theirs and they are just making money :) I tend not to believe any mechanic or painter who says they care about someone elses car :) This is why i normally just do it myself. Paint and body also that way i know its done right. The quotes you get from these guys also vary widely. Some guy will quote 30k and another 12 and another 6k... It often depends on how much work they have in the pipeline... alot of work, more expensive.? maybe they shop it out to someone else. Some people wait forever, some get blown off for over a year or 2. It like getting a home repair estimate, same principle... Guy looks at you and tries to figure out how much he can charge. See's how you react, does he need a paycheck right now?
Edited by mikes2nd 2018-01-14 10:56 AM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks Mike That‘s exactly the experience I get on my own as well. In my eyes the most time consuming job is to straighten the body with filler. That step could repeat up to five times... extension: I was just thinking about your words again and (consequently) of what I could do myself: the straightening and sanding of the body. The movie explains the step very good. Take care, Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-01-14 11:29 AM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | One thing I disagree with on the video is that I like to epoxy prime/seal the bare metal before I apply any filler. If you apply the filler within a week or two from the time you prime it, it will stick to the primer without any trouble. Filler absorbs water so if your paint gets thin and water is able to get to the bondo (like with a scratch or chip) then you will have rust developing underneath the bondo. But if you seal it off under the bondo first, you won't have this potential problem. I also seal over the top of the filler too before final paint of course. |
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| Me I follow directions which say bare metal correctly prepared(sand down to metal 36/40 and final scuff with at least 80). He is also following directions. I don't know who started this "bondo over sh*t is good" myth but its wrong.
Its impossible for water to get to the filler if you seal/primer/paint correctly. And once you get water in your bondo you are cooked, a simple coat of primer underneath isn't going to stop the bondo from absorbing water and rusting out, think about what you said, you just killed your own disagreement. You have water reaching your filler which is being absorbed... That is game over for your repair as the filler expands and no epoxy with constant water against it will last. It may be easier to peel the bondo off the car if you put epoxy underneath though to redo it.
There can also be reaction with the primer/other random crap under filler and the adhesion this is why its just better to avoid a nightmare.
The millions of formulas for primer from god knows where can react and screw with the filler(esp when applying the heat of the sun). I dont want some reaction later(which ive seen before) under the filler after youve painted.
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Location: So. Cal | I won't clog up his thread with this, but if you would like to discuss it, you can PM me.
Edited by Powerflite 2018-01-14 11:32 PM
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| nah ill stick with directions okay yeah back to the regular programming!
the problem with doing body work is it does take a lot of your time. Weigh the time vs the cost. Most quotes you get for paint jobs is nuts, like 100$ a hour nuts.
If your making 100$ an hour then I say go for it and have it done and avoid the hassle or if you have plenty of cash just outsource it. I like doing the work though on the car.
I like restoring more than driving them I think. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today I wanted to do just a small service at the 6 way electric seat gear. But ?? I started at the wrong side and now this small subporject turned out into a complete disassemblage of the gear. BTW: the gear was full of MoS2 grease, somebody apparently did anse vice not long ago, but forget to lube the bronce bushings of the shafts. I‘ll replace it with Molykote longterm W2. Question: did anybody remove /mount the flex wires in the loooong tubes to the passenger side sleave gear? Happy Restoration! Dieter |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes Dieter, remove the tubes from master and slave units and pull out the cables, wash them and the tubes and apply new grease on them.
This should be easy work. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today, after sand blasting and glass perl blasting I got my crossrams back and brought it directly to a superb painting company nearby. Especially the passenger side crossram shows a very heavy toll to the resting under a blue, woven plane in the S.F. bay for six years. To enhance the negative effect of the electrochemical voltage serie (aluminum is ignoble to cast iron, means: cast iron eats aluminum) there were loads of leaves on the intake system near the cylinder heads. But I'll try to do the best to save my crossram... aluminum filler is necessary. Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4670_crossram right hand side.JPG)
 (IMG_xxxx_crossram right hand side Detail.jpg)
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IMG_4670_crossram right hand side.JPG (409KB - 404 downloads)
IMG_xxxx_crossram right hand side Detail.jpg (429KB - 386 downloads)
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | The seat frame is "restored" and the front seats in their actual state mounted. I guess it's easy to see why I want to get everything new above the jute fabric layer ontop of the spring layer. The seat frame and spring web shows almost no sign of rust . Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW (edit): what surprises me most is that at the lower part (not exposed to the intense sun light at the S.F. bay area) the leather cover is still soft. The butt area at the drivers seat earlier was "repaired" with transparent tape. That destroyed the rubber foam cushion as well
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-02-04 2:17 PM
 (IMG_4691_front seats on seat frame.JPG)
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IMG_4691_front seats on seat frame.JPG (465KB - 391 downloads)
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday I was at the shop for a very short time to discuss the further steps and to make sure that I gonna replace the ball joints myself. Why? at the shop they pressed out the old ball joints at the control arms of a 300H and pressed in the new ones. From Wizard I got a sunny clear warning not to press out and press in. So I got a appropriate Snap-On tool to perform that work myself.
Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4765_front suspension removed.JPG)
 (IMG_4766_front suspension parts pile.JPG)
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IMG_4765_front suspension removed.JPG (386KB - 393 downloads)
IMG_4766_front suspension parts pile.JPG (480KB - 395 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | di_ch_NY56 - 2018-03-04 2:04 AM
Yesterday I was at the shop for a very short time to discuss the further steps and to make sure that I gonna replace the ball joints myself. Why? at the shop they pressed out the old ball joints at the control arms of a 300H and pressed in the new ones. From Wizard I got a sunny clear warning not to press out and press in. So I got a appropriate Snap-On tool to perform that work myself.
Happy Restoring! Dieter
_______
Wow.... my suggestion is steer clear of that shop completly. the threads are visible also the large square head. how can anyone with more than 3 brain cells try to PRESS them out? again, avoid these "mechanics". |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | Those threads on the control arms will strip out pretty easily so never use an impact air tool to install the ball joints. But you can use an impact air tool to remove them if they are too difficult to get out by hand. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for your answers. Yes, that's the reason I'm going to remove and install the ball joints myself, following the FSM strictly (by the way, the 1960 and 1962 are indentical in the description of the removal/install of the ball joints). The same is valid for the pinion seal as well. Today I was cleaning the upper side and the lower side of the front subframe (where the control arms and idler arm of the steering linkage were mounted). Beside I was cleaning the control arms and steering knuckels from tar and dirt to get them ready to sand blast. I decided to get rid of the additional spring package at the rear springs. From what I saw (when my Letter was in the state prior to the disassembling process) the rear was parallel to the front and not sinking down. Edit: I'll keep the canvas interliner in the rear springs. Gary Goers shows interliner made out of polyurethane, but that's not the same like the original canvas interliner. Body: the shop asked me, if I got the rubber between the radiator yoke and the front sub frame. Where to get em? I just could buy some 2 3/16" (around 3 cm) rubber patches to cut it myself - if there is no suplier. Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4770_rear axle almost free from dirt and grime.JPG)
 (IMG_4771_rear spring with no additional spring package.JPG)
 (IMG_4772_the sand blasting sand - quite fine.JPG)
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IMG_4770_rear axle almost free from dirt and grime.JPG (406KB - 391 downloads)
IMG_4771_rear spring with no additional spring package.JPG (285KB - 403 downloads)
IMG_4772_the sand blasting sand - quite fine.JPG (465KB - 392 downloads)
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | All the sheet metal of the front of the windshield is primered now. About 50% of the small parts are primered as well. The primer is a very nasty stuff, the same primer is used to prime the locomotives and waggons of the Swiss railway. I heard that the parts pile must be big enough to be worth to mix up the primer (it's very labor intensive). I hope this primer is bomb resistant and ways higher quality than that usually used for cars. The body worker will start to finish the resting issues. The passenger side fender revealed some more to do work (filler removed) due to the accident my Letter had in its earlier live. At least I know now as well where my Letter will go to get the finishing paint. I still aiming an Alaskan White color or as close as possible (e.g. Mercedes Benz Classic White is ways too yellowish, while contemporary white is ways too bright). Happy Restoring! Dieter Edit: What is that color at the sub frame (I assume Gun metallic)? The drivers side front fender is laying on the roof of a 1961 NY 4d HT, the rear window is still missing - must not be a new one, but I beg to get one rear window for the owner of the shop
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-03-11 8:39 AM
 (IMG_4768_sub frame removing resting protection layer.JPG)
 (IMG_4769 primer or color of the sub frame.JPG)
 (IMG_4776 passenger side front fender.JPG)
 (IMG_4778_parts pile already primered.JPG)
 (IMG_4779_drivers side fender.JPG)
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IMG_4768_sub frame removing resting protection layer.JPG (484KB - 386 downloads)
IMG_4769 primer or color of the sub frame.JPG (492KB - 399 downloads)
IMG_4776 passenger side front fender.JPG (401KB - 388 downloads)
IMG_4778_parts pile already primered.JPG (353KB - 380 downloads)
IMG_4779_drivers side fender.JPG (404KB - 377 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | It must feel good to finally see the parts primed - it gives a notice that the hard part of the restauration is soon over.
Keep us posted Dieter! |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | wizard - 2018-03-10 6:47 PM It must feel good to finally see the parts primed - it gives a notice that the hard part of the restauration is soon over. Keep us posted Dieter! Yes, I'm happy. |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yesterday I was working for uncounted hours at the underside of my Letter to remove some too thick resting tar to allow the further sand blasting process. I removed as much of the sealant in front of the doors as well. As well I met the body worker at the shop to explain the mounting and position of the drains. He catched the idea and spoke from drains as well. In the passing week he started wirh the replacement of the trunk floor. At the shop they discovered, that the drivers side spring shackle mounting box was crushed; they removed it, straighed it and mountd it again. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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| https://www.muggyweld.com/products/
super alloy 5 goes to 600 degrees, super allow 1 is 350... not sure if an intake would even see 350. Wonder about the heat transfer in that are to the foot you are repairing.
this stuff works. |
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Expert
Posts: 1730
Location: Michigan | Dieter.
Are you powder coating any of the parts? I found it to be extremely tough and does a great job of sealing the metal from the elements. |
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Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | No, I guess none of the gloss black parts are power coated, but the color did dry very slow. I talked to the shop owner to get the underside of the body satin black. I assuem 2k colors. Happy Restoring! Dieter TW: edited some typing errors; due to the use of my phone, the computer is donw and needs a reinstall of Windows 10.
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-03-19 1:35 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I decided to get the underside charcoal black, satin. In the meantime (since my computer was down) a lot has happened. This Sunday after I got a big surprise, I started with wire brushing small parts for the subframe and front suspension. The big surprise you'll see at the photo collection following. The primer is Etokat (normally used for trains as well) Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4787_parts pile 1.JPG)
 (IMG_4788_parts pile 2.JPG)
 (IMG_4798_sign on differential 3.15.JPG)
 (IMG_4799_sub frame colored.JPG)
 (IMG_4809_firewall and front foot area.JPG)
 (IMG_4810_passenger side three quart view to the rear.JPG)
 (IMG_4811_drivers side three quart view to the rear.JPG)
 (IMG_4812_undercarriage from the rear (trunk).JPG)
 (IMG_4816_rain drain passenger side.JPG)
 (IMG_4817_rain drain drivers side.JPG)
 (IMG_4818_parcel shelf.JPG)
 (IMG_4819_parecel shelf and roof.JPG)
 (IMG_4821_cowl and front foot area.JPG)
 (IMG_4822_roof inside.JPG)
 (IMG_4825_supension parts cleaned.JPG)
 (IMG_4826_suspension parts waiting to be brushed.JPG)
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IMG_4787_parts pile 1.JPG (379KB - 366 downloads)
IMG_4788_parts pile 2.JPG (315KB - 370 downloads)
IMG_4798_sign on differential 3.15.JPG (455KB - 375 downloads)
IMG_4799_sub frame colored.JPG (387KB - 375 downloads)
IMG_4809_firewall and front foot area.JPG (334KB - 374 downloads)
IMG_4810_passenger side three quart view to the rear.JPG (263KB - 373 downloads)
IMG_4811_drivers side three quart view to the rear.JPG (264KB - 384 downloads)
IMG_4812_undercarriage from the rear (trunk).JPG (318KB - 373 downloads)
IMG_4816_rain drain passenger side.JPG (271KB - 385 downloads)
IMG_4817_rain drain drivers side.JPG (334KB - 378 downloads)
IMG_4818_parcel shelf.JPG (345KB - 372 downloads)
IMG_4819_parecel shelf and roof.JPG (315KB - 390 downloads)
IMG_4821_cowl and front foot area.JPG (378KB - 384 downloads)
IMG_4822_roof inside.JPG (291KB - 388 downloads)
IMG_4825_supension parts cleaned.JPG (375KB - 394 downloads)
IMG_4826_suspension parts waiting to be brushed.JPG (331KB - 361 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Wow, there's been a lot of good progress Dieter! So big difference in comparision with when you got the car!
Very wise to put primer on the inside of the body also!
This is a big step in the restauration |
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Expert
Posts: 3877
Location: Northen Virginia | beautiful work!!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | Nice progress Dieter. Do not forget to weld tubes under the drain holes at trunk edge. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Adventurer 60 - 2018-03-25 11:44 AM Nice progress Dieter. Do not forget to weld tubes under the drain holes at trunk edge. Hi Jari
Thanks a lot. Look, the recession are made at Wizard's. Thanks to Wizard I got the mounting hardware. My plan is the same like Wizards to connect tubes at the mounting hardware and route it through the large plastic cups on each side of the filler neck in the floor of the trunk. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | di_ch_NY56 - 2018-03-26 1:25 PM
Adventurer 60 - 2018-03-25 11:44 AM Nice progress Dieter. Do not forget to weld tubes under the drain holes at trunk edge. Hi Jari
Thanks a lot. Look, the recession are made at Wizard's. Thanks to Wizard I got the mounting hardware. My plan is the same like Wizards to connect tubes at the mounting hardware and route it through the large plastic cups on each side of the filler neck in the floor of the trunk. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Sound good! |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks Jari Today I cleaned all the resting bolts, washers and hex nuts for the subframe and front suspension. The screws, washers and (eventually) hex nuts are still waiting. In the meantime the body got the final layer and color. The shop applied two layers, because the primer is almost white. Now the underside looks wonderful, the color is charcoal. I guess I'm going to inform the shop, that the final layer of color will be applied to the body with the front end mounted. This is ways better than from the factory (because really all body parts at least got a layer of primer, no blind spots like from the factory...) , but not as perfect as a Jan Fridberg restoration and Christers painting shop. Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4833_final color from the rear.JPG)
 (IMG_4837 final color three quart front view.JPG)
 (IMG_4835_hood and decklid are waiting.JPG)
 (IMG_4836_rear axle ready to mount.JPG)
Attachments
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IMG_4833_final color from the rear.JPG (339KB - 441 downloads)
IMG_4837 final color three quart front view.JPG (335KB - 461 downloads)
IMG_4835_hood and decklid are waiting.JPG (277KB - 449 downloads)
IMG_4836_rear axle ready to mount.JPG (271KB - 445 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7285
Location: northern germany | the unibodys were dipped (not complete) in primer and baked in ovens, so theoretically primer blind spots in the lower parts are not possible. that factoy backed on primer is almost like galvanized. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Yes, But most of us discovered bare metal areas (roof inside, under the parcel shelf, both sides at the firewall, covered by the inner and outer fender and more). I‘m leaving that discussion to put a question about the rear axle of my Letter.... Stamped in at the differential carrier is 3.15. That indicates a 3.15 differential ratio. At the fragment of the broadcast sheet I only could discover „ratio“ and the code is 523. I read it multiple to make sure that I didn‘t do a misread. Is the 3.15 axle that came from the factory or was it another, according the broadcast sheet? Happy Restoring! Dieter corrected... 523, not 529
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-03-31 1:47 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | This week I had a big fortune to find an appropriate rubber rope to build a gasket (weatherstrip) between the bezel and the glass of the tachometer mounted in the center console. Ways earlier on I catched a tachometer at epain for a good price (because the pointer fell off and some rust issues at the bezel). I managed to mount the pointer again and good luck - it lights up as the scale does. I did a service and the input shaft rotates again. Now I cleaned the bezel, applied filler primer (I guess I need several layers to compensate the marks of the rust eating...
Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: the matt black originally applied at the bezel is not water resistant....
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-03-31 3:08 PM
 (IMG_4839_second tach bezel.JPG)
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IMG_4839_second tach bezel.JPG (367KB - 495 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Today we mounted the subframe, the front suspension /w the steering gear and the rear axle back to my Letter. First we wanted to mount the dustshields and steering arm, but - a quiz - why are the screws too long now? A sunny idea and bang -- the brake mouning plate is not in place. So we chatched em and finished the front suspension, with one exception... the upper rubber at the stabilizer holders is still missing (in my second order this year for Gary Goers). The rear axle is back in place as well. After we got out, that the National 7216 pinion seal doesn't fit (outside diameter) we searched another one... SKF 18708. I figured out that the rear axle of my Letter is a 8.25 Plymouth axle and not the factory Chrysler 8.75 rear axle. Happy Restoring! (always some surprises) Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-04-01 2:58 PM
 (IMG_4844_differential of my Letter.JPG)
 (IMG_4846_front brake shield mounted.JPG)
 (IMG_4847_frame and front suspension almost finished.JPG)
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IMG_4844_differential of my Letter.JPG (490KB - 451 downloads)
IMG_4846_front brake shield mounted.JPG (323KB - 453 downloads)
IMG_4847_frame and front suspension almost finished.JPG (246KB - 457 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1730
Location: Michigan | Looking good Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot to all. Now just th the super gau has happened. E.G. the screws from the radiator yoke to the inner fenders, the screws ontop of the fenders near the windshield frame hve gone. Source? Thanks a lot Dieter Edit: please pm me, thank you very much
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-04-04 1:04 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Evidence of the work last weekend... almost finished at the assembly (rolling body). At the last picture of that weekend you'll discover the shop owner. You might notice that not all screws at the radiator yoke and front fenders to the inner fender are mounted... missing! (you could claim, you're self responsible because you didn't disassemble and assemble everything yourself). Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4848_front suspension mouted from the bottom.JPG)
 (IMG_4850_a 1960 Plymouth__border of the factory primer bath clearly visible.JPG)
 (IMG_4851_front suspension mounted from the top.JPG)
 (IMG_4852_trunk lid mounted adjusted by myself.JPG)
 (IMG_4853_overview of my Letter.JPG)
Attachments
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IMG_4848_front suspension mouted from the bottom.JPG (437KB - 440 downloads)
IMG_4850_a 1960 Plymouth__border of the factory primer bath clearly visible.JPG (271KB - 522 downloads)
IMG_4851_front suspension mounted from the top.JPG (422KB - 452 downloads)
IMG_4852_trunk lid mounted adjusted by myself.JPG (416KB - 437 downloads)
IMG_4853_overview of my Letter.JPG (355KB - 446 downloads)
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Member
Posts: 43
Location: Småland Sweden | Impressive work you are doing! Soon you can take your F on a trip to Sweden
Jan in Sweden
Edited by 60Mopars 2018-04-07 4:37 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | 60Mopars - 2018-04-06 10:34 AM Impressive work you are doing! Soon you can take your F on a trip to Sweden Jan in Sweden A trip to Sweden is on my wish list for sure. But I affraid, for sure not next year. Today I had the first talk with one guy about the final painting. The painting company is run by two brothers. Personally I think I could be happy if I could drive my Letter the first time within five years. Actually I didn't get an update from the engine restoring company. The last information was, that all pistons now are out (the piston #1 had to be broken in parts prior to remove it), the rotating assembly and other parts are ordered. Bigger parts missing - the windshield, the gas tank, the brake lines, the gutter rails (not necessary to drive, but to finisth the Letter) and the door to quarter panel fillers (two on each side, one at the door, one at the quarter panel). In the meantime I was able to catch a straight rear bumer (:-). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | One more thou about my Letter.... For sure I could buy a complete interior, but without new rubber foam seat cushions (preferred from Gray Goers shop - no clues who ever will run his business...) it makes no sense to mount the new seat covers. But as long as I do not get my second order, I‘m not willing to spend more money to Gary Goers shop.... Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Over the weekend I sanded the bezel of the second tachometer twice or three times with applying one more layer of filler out of a rattle can to straighten the bumps out of the bezel. This early morning I applied Rally black (mat black) and assembled it later this morning. Fortunately I found a rubber rope to fit between the chromed ring and the lens glass. Final check and photo... Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4941_tachometer assembled and illuminated.JPG)
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IMG_4941_tachometer assembled and illuminated.JPG (195KB - 502 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Easy to see, after the starter motor I brushed the cooling fan a second time. This time with the drilling machine and two different shapes of wire brushes. But I assume I have to use emerald paper as well. Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4956_cooling fan front.JPG)
 (IMG_4957_cooling fan back.JPG)
Attachments
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IMG_4956_cooling fan front.JPG (447KB - 431 downloads)
IMG_4957_cooling fan back.JPG (422KB - 422 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | In the meantime I purchased a complete 8 3/4" rear end (out of a 1960 Windsor) from Big M to replace the 6 cylinder 1960 Dodge 8 1/4" rear axle. The 8 1/4" rear axle I hope I could sell after I got and installed the rear axle from Big M. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | di_ch_NY56 - 2018-03-31 6:21 PM Today we mounted the subframe, the front suspension /w the steering gear and the rear axle back to my Letter. First we wanted to mount the dustshields and steering arm, but - a quiz - why are the screws too long now? A sunny idea and bang -- the brake mouning plate is not in place. So we chatched em and finished the front suspension, with one exception... the upper rubber at the stabilizer holders is still missing (in my second order this year for Gary Goers). The rear axle is back in place as well. After we got out, that the National 7216 pinion seal doesn't fit (outside diameter) we searched another one... SKF 18708. I figured out that the rear axle of my Letter is a 8.25 Plymouth axle and not the factory Chrysler 8.75 rear axle. Happy Restoring! (always some surprises) Dieter I'm sorry and I realized that I was wrong with the judgement of the rear axle. The number on the side of the differential carrier shows 1820 657. According to many people here and my check again it's not a 8 1/4" rear end, but a small stem 8 3/4" rear axle. No wonder a Swedish friend wrote to me, I made a big mess with the axles and parts of the axle.... So the only work to perform at this axle is to exchange the axle shaft seals, the axle shaft bearings, shorten the axle shafts 1/8" to install the 742 differential carrier I purchased (/w a limited slip differential inside). To replace the axle shaft seals and axle shaft bearings is necessary, because at the shop the axle has been sand blasted. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9417
Location: So. Cal | Shortening the axles 1/8" is required only if your rear end originally had an open gear set. If it originally had limited slip, you don't need to shorten the axles because they would be the correct length already. Also, if you do end up needing to shorten the axles, go slow and test fit them with the available shims that you have to adjust the play. If you go too far, you may end up needing to fabricate more shims.
Edited by Powerflite 2018-06-03 9:58 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for your answer. Do you know, the 657/741 differential carrier was available with the Posi Traction option as well. In my opinion most were open carriers. When I have to shorten the axle shafts I'll bring it to a mechanical shop and will specify the shortening 1/8" (3.175 mm -0 mm, +0.05 mm); means between excatly 1/8" and 0.127" shorter (the result will be a little bit shorter; a bias to remove shims instead of adding shims). Happy Restoring! Dieter BTW: are the axle shafts mild steel to use a file?
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-06-05 2:15 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | While sweeping through the picture collection I made, one particular picture catched my attraction. It shows older damages revealed during the sand blasting. No wonder why the body worker/painter shop estimated so many hours to straighten the contour of the body... End of June or early July my Letter should go to the body/painter shop (the body/painer shop got my agreement). Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_4815_older accdent damages revealed.JPG)
Attachments
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IMG_4815_older accdent damages revealed.JPG (247KB - 417 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | Yes, thas gonna take some time to straighten it up. Would be done finished with bondo in less than hour or two
remaind your body guy to fix door corner, to make it more round. It is over doing but looks much nicer when the whole car is finished.
I even fixed the whole shape of the doors in my G project, you can check my project posts how it got
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for your hin Jari. I hope I don't forget it to mention. This morning I visited the shop to visit the owner. He invited me for a small journey with him in his 60 NY 4d HT rat rod (/w a 383 engine). After refilling the gas tank I could drive his NY. It's a wonderful experience to ride a '60 Chrysler. After leaving him I attended to the body and painting shop (the owner told me he transportet my Letter Friday evening to the body and painting shop - good luck, the night was dry). At the body and painting shop I met the body smith. He just said, that the condition of my Letter is not bad. Could be a faster fixing and adjusting than excpeted. We'll see the result... For your enjoyment some more picures of my Letter. Happy Restoring! Dieter
 (IMG_5078_view from the back.JPG)
 (IMG_5079_view from the back - birds view.JPG)
 (IMG_5081_view to the front.JPG)
 (IMG_5082_RH lower rear corner.JPG)
 (IMG_5083_LH lower rear corner.JPG)
 (IMG_5084_three quart RH rear view.JPG)
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IMG_5078_view from the back.JPG (464KB - 416 downloads)
IMG_5079_view from the back - birds view.JPG (339KB - 441 downloads)
IMG_5081_view to the front.JPG (462KB - 420 downloads)
IMG_5082_RH lower rear corner.JPG (436KB - 406 downloads)
IMG_5083_LH lower rear corner.JPG (237KB - 405 downloads)
IMG_5084_three quart RH rear view.JPG (359KB - 418 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | A sidemark to the rear end of my Letter... Nobody at the shop noticed that the drivers side rear fender is mounted about 1 cm (about 3/8") forward compared to the passenger side (yes, they noticed (after sand blasting) that the drivers side rear fender once was replaced). I always was courios why the wetherstrip channel at the drivers side is about 1 cm (about 3/8") less wide than at the passenger side - the inner end to the trunk is correct. I checked the distance between the end of the door opening and the start of the wheel well (bow) for the rear wheel after my Letter was primered on both sides. It's sunny clear now... The drivers side rear fender was replaced after an accident, but without straightening the reinforcement bow under the trunk floor prior.... Will see what I can do at the painter and body shop (two brothers). Next Saturday I'll bring all lamps to them. Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | You are in chritical stage now for the final result and appearance when the car is finished. Now it is important to adjust every single cap in hood, trunk lid and doors before car goes to paint booth.
An it is hard adjusting meaning cutting, grinding and welding. It is only way to do it right now. Make holes to fit their lids. Investing time and money now for it pays back later.
We had to remember that quality in 60's automobile industry was awful. cap tolerance was from 3 mm ti 12 mm in same panel, even there if was no collison history! Comparing 90;s Audies or BMWs wich had exact 4 mm cap in every lid regular Chrysler product quality looks bad.
I've seen many restored and "over done" forwarlookers in car events in Sweden, and they look like million dollar cars compared the ones that has not been "hard way adjusted caps".
Sure I admit it is over doing but if the car looks better than what is was when it left the factory... |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Hi Jari At some points you‘re absolutely right. I don‘t complain about bigger gaps nor some more imperfections. But when I compare the pictures /w measurements for the drain holes I got, I noticed that the trunk lid weatherstrip channel should be within a fraction of a millimeter (for a 1960 Chrysler with no collision history) and not with a difference of 5 to 10 millimeters from the RH side (7 cm like in the pictures) to the LH side (about 6 cm to 6.5 cm). So I said to the shop, estimate the position for to mount the recessions for the drain nipples. Because the measurements I got were not applicable at my Letter as it is right now. Happy Restoring! BTW: when I got my Letter, at the LH side I had too manies holes for the side trim (e.g. two upper and two lower holes for the F emblem). The LH side emblem is looking like new (bright colors, not mounted at the Letter for uncoutable years). |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7285
Location: northern germany | Adventurer 60 - 2018-06-30 8:24 AM
We had to remember that quality in 60's automobile industry was awful. cap tolerance was from 3 mm ti 12 mm in same panel,
Nonsense. You are mixing up things. The drivetrains outlasts any new power plant. The assembly quality of BODY panels wasn't as good but 12mm is BS.
Maybe new car manufacturers could learn from 1960 Mopars like how to produce seals that last 58+ years. |
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Expert
Posts: 1524
Location: ZH, Switzerland | From what I saw... Mopars of our decade were ways better and more accurate assembled than any competitor (GM and FoMoCo). Happy Restoring! Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2018-07-01 2:00 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | 1960fury - 2018-07-01 11:07 AM
Adventurer 60 - 2018-06-30 8:24 AM
We had to remember that quality in 60's automobile industry was awful. cap tolerance was from 3 mm ti 12 mm in same panel,
Nonsense. You are mixing up things. The drivetrains outlasts any new power plant. The assembly quality of BODY panels wasn't as good but 12mm is BS.
Maybe new car manufacturers could learn from 1960 Mopars like how to produce seals that last 58+ years.
Ok I gotta be bulls**ter then, you tell how much the tolerance was. Not sure about half inch neither but I have seen trunk lids in fwrl-cars where you can almost put your fingers thru.
Friend of mine collected 59 Plymouth/Kingsway/Diplomat doors for his rusty project in early 80's he had several left rear doors and noticed they were not same size,
difference was more than 5 mm in lenght. Those doors apparently were from different assembly plants and pressed not by same tools, but anyway they were designed to be same size. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 12976
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | It's all in the documentation and you're not far off Jari, the stackup was roundabout 3/8" (9,61mm). http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/150/150cover.htm
Stackup means the accumulated tolerances on a panel or several panels. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7285
Location: northern germany |
Totally far off as 3/8 "stackup" is not 12mm (1/2") in (quote) "one panel". |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | 12 - 9,61 = 2,39 Yes I made about 20% error, I'm so sorry but both figures are too big. Perhaps the first owner never made a reclamation on those cars I've seen.
If you see 59 Dodge with trunk lid sitting ok - it has visited Jan Fridbergs body shop.
Try to sell new car these days with stackup that big (9,61 mm) no one would buy car like that, no one! That time was in the 70's when they made Escorts and Vauxhalls in England. Even russians made better with Moskwitsh and Lada.
Thats what i am talking about.
Edited by Adventurer 60 2018-07-04 5:28 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7285
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