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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Here, for your consideration, is my car's "spare" water pump,
which has been living the good life, in Horrie's trunk, for MANY years.
His existing water pump, just today (at the end of a 100 mile road trip) began
leaking (pouring-out) big-time-enuf....
Got him home, and to a gas station, before noticing the active leakage, and with no over-heating
occurring.
Question: do water pumps dry out, internally, when dry-stored, for many years????
His impeller turns somewhat stiffly, but smoothly, and with NO lost-motion to its operation.
Germans, and maybe the Swiss, too) would describe the impeller's current turning/rotating effort-needed as being Gutenteit.
So, is Horrie's spare water pump in good operating condition (with its stiffly-but-smoothly
turning impeller), or should/could the impeller-system be overhauled or somehow lubricated
before being installed on H.'s engine????
Gaskets are cheap-enough, and my spare one is SLIGHTLY warped, and has one mounting hole in it,
that has a slight crack.
So, I suppose that gasket, after all 'these' years, is righteously history....
Edited by d500neil 2015-07-18 8:59 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | 50/50 Neil
All rubber deteriorates over time and its the seal that would be the problem
The seal lip can sometimes glue itself to the shaft without use as well and the first turn will tear the lip off
Only way to tell is to give it a go, but they arnt worth much either, could be a case of "if in doubt, throw it out"
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Firstly, I would scrap any casting that was cracked!!
Secondly, I would be much more concerned that the fan hub was pressed onto the pump shaft to the correct distance.
As I look at your pic, it appears to me that there is "more than normal" shaft extending outward from the fan hub.
Hey, pics and real life are different. Just check it out. You don't want to tear off a fan belt!!
Greg |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | AFAIK, this is a NOS piece (check out its mounting-hole status).
Any factory mechanical item might be built defectively.
What makes y'all think that this guy is "defective"?
Because it's "old", and has had a long shelf life?
I'm not "in doubt" about this pump's being NOS; just wondering if there is any way to confirm (or bench-test) its long-term
'usability' condition, prior to installing it.
And: if it does have deteriorated internals, wouldn't that condition immediately present itself, by leaking
(immediately, or not)?
Are NOS water pumps supposed to have Gutenteit internals (seals and bearings), or should they have (relatively-)
silky-smoothly spinning internals?
Thanks, Greg, et al...the fan hub's shaft's length/alignment will be checked out, too, upon reassembly.
Edited by d500neil 2015-07-19 3:36 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | Because of the now 50+ year old rubber seal internally, the NOS pump might fail sooner than an actual new part made in recent years.
I would just install it and have your original pump rebuild in the time being.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | i do not know if they go bad just by sitting but i have GREAT respect for 50s mopar parts and the materials they used.
when i bought my plymouth, over 27 years ago, i replaced its oe (i guess) water pump with an aluminum one from MP just to be sure, although the oe one was working perfectly (stupid I know). the MP unit lasted a long time but when it started leaking about 5 years ago i put the OE pump back in (stored used for about 20 years) until know the oe pump works perfectly, with no noises or leaks.
i forgot to mention that when the mp unit failed at first i bought another new aluminum pump (made in japan) that lasted 6 months! so right now i drive with a 56 year old water pump. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13054
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Neil, most probably someone has renovated the water pump, way back in time. The housing is cracked and warped because someone did not respect that it's only allowed to support the shaft end when pressing together the parts. If one should support the housing, normally the housing will crack and/or warp.
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | If you have ever rebuilt, taken apart a waterpump, you will find a seal that is made from a very hard material (I believe carbon) that is spring loaded to rub against a smooth surface. This is the water seal. This should not deteriorate by just sitting but that crack may leak. I believe it is normal for a new, unused pump to turn a little stiff, all you can do is give it a try. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | crack, i always hear crack. i do not think neil or anyone would use a cracked wp. its only the GASKET that has a crack, according to the op.
and btw, wth is a "Gutenteit" ?
other topic, i personally would never run a cast iron impeller. removing rotating mass from my car is my "hobbyhorse" years ago i changed to underdrive/lightweight crank, waterpump, ps and alternator pulleys with titanium/aluminum bolts/nuts removing 1.5+ pounds (!) rotating mass from the engine and the result surprised even me. the idle went up from 500rpm so high i didn't want to engage the drive gear.
if the mass reduction is noticeable at idle speed you can guess what it does at acceleration/higher engine speeds.
and btw the smaller lightweight crank pulley that turns the water pump and alternator (that has an underdrive pulley too) slower, had absolutely no negative effects on cooling or charging.
Edited by 1960fury 2015-07-19 9:57 AM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Here's some more pics of this pump.
How are you guys able to determine that the pump's case is cracked and warped?
The crack, as seen in Pic 5225 appears to be superficial and the mounting-bolt holes
look like they've never been torqued-on.
If that superficial crack bothers 'us', I could 'float' (-fill) the crack with some PTFE Thread Sealant.
But, nobody, to date (?) has said anything about being able to "bench test" the operational
capability of a water pump (like: checking for excessive play in its impeller (none, on mine), or that
the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...or that the impeller
might be too 'loose' in its rotation (not, on mine!)
So, I'll probably float the crack with some PTFE, and install the pump with a new gasket....and see what happens
(answer: probably NOTHING...bad or obvious, but for how long???)
But, what about PRE-lubricating the thing, as some have advised doing????
How is THAT done?
Edited by d500neil 2015-07-19 4:37 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | d500neil - 2015-07-19 4:07 PM
the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...
interesting, but there is no such word in german |
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Veteran
Posts: 168
Location: SD | 1960fury - 2015-07-19 5:15 PM
d500neil - 2015-07-19 4:07 PM
the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...
interesting, but there is no such word in german : )
Just a fun play on words. (good 'n tight) |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | zrxkawboy - 2015-07-19 6:39 PM
1960fury - 2015-07-19 5:15 PM
d500neil - 2015-07-19 4:07 PM
the impeller might be too tight/stiff (that's the "Gutenteit" syndrome, Sid!)...
interesting, but there is no such word in german : )
Just a fun play on words. (good 'n tight )
aaah stupid me |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13054
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | 1960fury - 2015-07-19 3:31 PM
crack, i always hear crack. i do not think neil or anyone would use a cracked wp. its only the GASKET that has a crack, according to the op.
I understood that it was the pump body that was cracked and warped, but Sid corrected me Neil.......... |
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Expert
Posts: 2289
Location: Eastern Iowa | Geeesh....
Another urban legend shot from the saddle...
Here all these years I thought it was the German word for virgin!!
Edited by finsruskw 2015-07-20 1:04 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13054
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Well, it could be used for sure, translated it would be like "nice and tight" |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | finsruskw - 2015-07-20 1:02 PM
Geeesh....
Another urban legend shot from the saddle...
Here all these years I thought it was the German word for virgin!!
just like the word, they do not exist either |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, my water pump's rotation is Gutenteit, and, that pump has never been installed, AFAIK, so it can be considered
as being virginal, right?
Pump's scheduled to be replaced this THUR...3 days from now.
Edited by d500neil 2015-07-20 2:34 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13054
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | something pumped cannot be considered a virgin Neil |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| probably quicker than they do if they are installed in some cases. They have rubber seals, they have bushings. Seals can dry out, bushings can become pitted, and once that's done, it's gonna leak. Now in the car, if good coolant or pump lube is run, it'll be bathed in corrosion inhibitors and oils that keep seals happy. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, end of story: replacement water pump is installed...and the existing-original/FAILED water pump has been sent out,
to Quality Engineered Components, of Bend, OR, for an overhaul. and retention, where it will reside in the trunk as being one of the (potentially-) "immediately necessary" spare parts.
Edited by d500neil 2015-07-27 7:38 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | if it was the really the original 58 year old pump, "failed" is an unfair word i would call it a very successful nice little water pump
Edited by 1960fury 2015-07-27 7:58 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I never asked it, about its age, before putting it to WORK.
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