'58 New Yorker Coupe
Powerflite
Posted 2015-12-15 12:50 AM (#498001)
Subject: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I picked up a 1958 New Yorker 2dr coupe recently that is missing a lot of parts, including the drivetrain. It does come with an auto pilot feature, power steering, power brakes, power seat, seats with center dips of course, a sky high rear window and plenty of rust in the lower quarters, rockers and outer floors. It is an ambitious project, but one which I think will be worth saving. I didn't need another project, but this one fell into my lap so I couldn't turn it down. I have a 392 hemi from a '57 New Yorker built up for my '56 Savoy, but I never installed it. I don't want to install it this way into the New Yorker so I am currently tearing it down and prepping the engine bay for the new motor.



(NY Front.jpg)



(NY Rear.jpg)



(392Hemi.JPG)



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Attachments NY Front.jpg (204KB - 213 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2015-12-15 1:08 AM (#498003 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I removed all the aftermarket components and installed a fuel pump eccentric & stock motor mounts. I also removed the Hot Heads windage tray I had in the oil pan because it was kissing the rod bolts and I didn't want to deal with it right now. This motor uses a solid lifter cam and was previously built for a race boat. They welded a lot of weight to the 2 outer counterweights on the crank. It uses aftermarket pistons & rods so I am hoping that they knew what they were doing. You never know what you are getting into with an old race motor, but I am going to trust my luck with it and see how it goes.



(392 Upside Down.jpg)



(392 Hemi Crank.jpg)



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Attachments 392 Upside Down.jpg (138KB - 209 downloads)
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cbrayinga
Posted 2015-12-15 5:49 AM (#498011 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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SWEEEEET!!!
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-15 9:06 AM (#498022 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I don't know, with all that added mass, I would take it to a shop for balancing.
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Powerflite
Posted 2015-12-15 1:01 PM (#498068 - in reply to #498022)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I'm sure that they have already balanced it after adding weight to it, but I am really starting to wonder about what this motor really is. The crank number is 1673755, which is a 392 crank so that is good, but the rods seem to be extra long at 7.25". It is hard to get an accurate measurement with them installed, but they are definitely longer than the stock ~7" length. But usually a longer rod means that the piston should be a lighter weight, which would call for less bob weight on the crank, not more, so I am confused. The pistons are Venolias, and have almost no skirt to them, but the distance from the pin to the dome looks normal. If the crank had extra stroke, it might need more bob weight, but it would use shorter rods in that case - right? Could it be possible that this was an experimental motor to run with an out-of-balance crank?

I am thinking that you are right, that I should take it all out and get it looked at so I know what is here and that it is going to work well. I may end up putting another crank into it.
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Swept57
Posted 2015-12-15 1:43 PM (#498071 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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The problem is that you don't know the history and making assumptions at this point is risky. Now is the time to be sure it is done right!
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GregCon
Posted 2015-12-15 2:06 PM (#498074 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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So how about pics of the NY'er?
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Powerflite
Posted 2015-12-15 3:41 PM (#498085 - in reply to #498074)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I added a couple of pics of the car at the beginning for you. This is the picture of the interior. I have all of the side glass sitting on the back seat. I also have the outer windshield trim, but none of the back window trim. This is the only one of my '57-'58 cars that doesn't come with the dual rear antennae. This one came with a single electric antenna on the right front fender.



(NY Seats.jpg)



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miquelonbrad
Posted 2015-12-15 8:55 PM (#498126 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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WOW!! Great project!

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soiouz
Posted 2015-12-15 9:05 PM (#498130 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I love the 58 New Yorker! What a great looking car!
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1961plymouthfury
Posted 2015-12-16 12:38 AM (#498138 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Auto pilot today its called cruise control. I wonder how rare that is .
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60 dart
Posted 2015-12-16 3:55 AM (#498147 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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the crank looks like there may have been a ton of adding and removing weight over the past -----------------------------------------------later
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60 dart
Posted 2015-12-16 3:57 AM (#498148 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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is the piston to deck height correct , more or less ---------------------------------------later
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57burb
Posted 2015-12-16 1:55 PM (#498171 - in reply to #498148)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Man, you've got a couple of rusty ones! Great looking '58s you have there!

As for the 392, you won't be able to tell much without having the hard parts dissected, or some kind of build sheet. I'm curious why you think the rods are something other than standard 392 (6.95) length. If they're aftermarket, each piston and rod should have a part number that will help you identify what you're looking at. Have you removed one yet?

The crankshaft work doesn't scare me. It looks like someone knew what they were doing. Cast iron work is always a little ugly, but the work seems tidy, with no big gouges or loose pieces. And it looks like the rods have also been balanced. Two things do concern me though. The first is that extra weight may have been added to make this engine work with some homebrewed jet drive or Casale drive. The second is that it may have been balanced for one combination, and then slapped together with a different set of rods and pistons.

If it were me, I'd put it together and see what happens. Dismantling the engine and then trying to back out all the work is going to cost a fortune. If it was all bought together and you've been told it all ran together, I'd at least trust it for an initial firing and see how it behaves.

Did you replace the main bolts with the ones that attach the windage tray? If so, I'd consider having an align hone done to true everything up. Even using different fasteners can change the shape of the main. You almost always have to trim the windage tray slightly to allow a few thousandths clearance around the rods and rod bolts. Keep us posted!
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58coupe
Posted 2015-12-17 9:51 AM (#498241 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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If you are really nervous about your engine I will take it off your hands and use it for a few years to make sure it is OK!!!!
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Powerflite
Posted 2015-12-17 3:02 PM (#498264 - in reply to #498171)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. And Rolland, I've given your offer a great deal of consideration, but... no thanks.

Here is a picture of the piston at top dead center, Chuck. It looks OK to me. What do you think?

I measured the rods with them installed. That is why I think they are extra long. Granted it isn't a super accurate measurement, but they definitely look longer. They don't look like stock rods, but there is no embossed name or part number that I can see on them. Danny, you bring up a very good point about this motor possibly being designed for an externally out-of-balance system. I don't know the history and I don't trust this setup because there are too many unanswered questions with warning bells going off that I have decided to pull the assembly out and take it to get looked at by an engine balancer. Now to find one near LA that I can trust.... I have a freshly ground stock 392 crank sitting in my garage so I could swap it out quite easily, and it looks like I will probably end up doing that.



(392Piston.jpg)



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springsweptwing
Posted 2015-12-17 3:24 PM (#498269 - in reply to #498264)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Hi Nathan,

If this has aftermarket rods in that look longer you might find crank has been ground offset to lengthen the stroke , that's why the pistons have a short skirt to stop them coming past the bores and hitting the crank , weight added to crank possibly because there was no torque converter or flywheel on there and needed the extra weight on the bob weights to get it to tick over at a lower rev , just make sure the crank you are swaping has the same stroke or pistons will come out of top of block.

Paul.

Edited by springsweptwing 2015-12-17 3:25 PM
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GregCon
Posted 2015-12-17 4:09 PM (#498277 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Don't 392 Hemi's have forged cranks?

Not much better than a 58 NY 2 door...
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1959Dodge
Posted 2015-12-17 6:36 PM (#498288 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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"Not much better than a 58 NY 2 door...,

Welllll~~~ except for possibly "these"?




(Two 1958 Chrysler New Yorker Convertibles-crop-crop.jpg)



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cbrayinga
Posted 2015-12-18 1:54 AM (#498329 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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That's a REALLY COOL project you have there!!!
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58coupe
Posted 2015-12-18 8:53 AM (#498349 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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measure the stroke of your engine. it is fairly common to use longer rods with a stroker crank and use pistons with a shorter pin height. ( pin to top of piston)
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-11 8:24 PM (#500775 - in reply to #498349)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Thanks Chris for the encouragement.

I have the crank & pistons out now. Rolland, how can I accurately measure the stroke? Measuring the rods outside, they are looking more like stock length. It must have been the angle that they were sitting at.

I measured the bore size and it is 4.011-4.012. That would mean that the pistons are 10 over? That is an odd number, but since the pistons are obviously custom, I guess he could make them at whatever size he wanted. But the bearings are really a mystery. The sizes are:

Type ----------- Stock ----- Mine - Difference
Main Journal -- 2.6875 -- 2.663 -- 0.025
Rod Journal --- 2.3750 -- 2.350 -- 0.025

What the heck? Does anyone even make .025" oversize bearings? I am confused. Also, I am not seeing a reason for the extra bob-weight, but we'll see what the balancer says.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-01-11 8:27 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-12 10:52 PM (#500877 - in reply to #500775)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I took the rotating assembly to Revco Precision in Long Beach. That guy has been working with race motors for many years. He could immediately tell that the rods were 426 street hemi rods. He confirmed that the 426 street rods are quite a bit heavier than the 392 rods and I agree. The 426 race rods are even heavier. So that may be the only reason for the extra bob weight on the crank. Also, he thought that the crank looked like it had a stock stroke and I agree because it still has the stock radius on the journals. He also told me that motors that run on alcohol run with thick 70 weight oil, 120psi, and .006-.007" clearance on the bearings. So that is likely the reason for the .025" under-size journals, probably run with .020" oversize bearings. So it is all starting to make more sense now.

I am just glad that I took the crank out to figure out that it had such large bearing clearances. Otherwise, it would have been a disaster. The only unknown at this point is the compression ratio. I need to measure the piston head volume somehow. Does anyone have advice for me? If the motor was built for alcohol, the compression could be pretty darn high, but maybe not too bad if it had a supercharger.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-01-12 11:37 PM (#500881 - in reply to #500877)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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We use saran wrap laid into each cylinder "cup" and then fill to brimming with
alcohol (lays out flatter than water, so more accurate) and then remove with a
syringe that shows CC's.

It could also be done in reverse, or with a measuring container in which the
syringe is used to put the liquid in (or pull from, if process is reversed).
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-27 12:45 AM (#502432 - in reply to #500881)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Ugh....more fun. I found out today that they can't re-grind the crank down to .03" under unless they cut off those balance plates first. So now I need to cut them off, grind the bearings, and then weld them back on or put in expensive heavy metal ?tungsten instead. I guess I will pay for the tungsten, but this part is costing me a lot more $$$ and time than I had hoped.
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60 Imp
Posted 2016-01-27 8:37 AM (#502450 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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Nate, they always cost more time and money than you thought

As you will know, the trick is not to get too daunted, and keep your eye on the prize which is getting into the drivers seat, starting the engine and driving away (hopefully for years to come).

I also am a big fan of 58 NYs. (and I have not seen one in the flesh). Love your pics of the car, keep up the good work and progress pics.


Steve.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-01 7:45 PM (#502983 - in reply to #502450)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Yeah, Steven, just gotta keep keeping on.

I decided not to wait for the crank any longer and get started on exhaust manifold selection, build the exhaust, and the trans mount. So I dropped a spare motor into place to mock it up. I will finish doing the rust repair on the firewall and re-paint it before the final motor goes in, so this motor won't stay here for long. The air cleaners that I am using currently clear the hood when it is down, but are a little too close, so I will replace the 1" spacer with a 1/2" spacer under the carbs. This looks to be the minimum thickness for the carb linkage to clear the bolts on the manifold.

The dual master cylinder is really close to the valve cover. I should probably use an adapter that is offset instead, but I'm not sure how that would effect the linkage geometry. I guess since it clears, I may just leave it alone.



(Mockup.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-01 8:13 PM (#502985 - in reply to #502983)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I put a 4-bolt truck manifold on the driver's side and it looks to clear the power steering fine, but probably a little too close if the motor starts to rock around at all. I may end up tying the motor down with a chain or hard brace if it starts to whack into the gear box.

I then put a number of different exhaust options on the right side. A custom full length header made for an early '50's car didn't have a chance of working, a Hot Heads full length header would have worked if it was shorter because it hit into the cross-link bar. It would need to be shortened up by about 1.5-2" and there is a straight section on it that it could easily be shortened there. But it also hit the motor mount like the shorty header and I'm not sure if it would work out as well on the left side because of the starter. A cheap Chinese shorty header hit into the motor mount pretty aggressively so that I couldn't get it even close to the right position. But the outlet for it ended up above the cross-link with enough space to be able to get a pipe above it so that it wouldn't have to go under the steering. The Hot Heads shorty header was the closest to being able to mount into position, and I did get one bolt started on it at the rear-most port. But the header still hit the motor mount that prevents it from finally bolting into place. The front-most pipe could possibly be modified to move it more horizontal to make it work, but unfortunately, the header dumps down too low such that you would be forced to route the exhaust pipe under the steering.

So, it looks like the best exhaust option, outside of a custom set of pipes or the stock restrictive New Yorker manifolds, is to use the truck manifolds. The next best would be to use some cheap Chinese shorties and modify the front-most pipe to get it to clear the motor mount well. That pipe would need to route almost directly backward in order to clear it. Next best would be to modify the Hot Heads full length headers, but it I'm not sure how well you could get it to work on the left side.

Edit: I have no idea what X29491 means. I just noticed it there.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-02-01 8:18 PM




(Truck Exhaust & BrakeMC.jpg)



(HotHeads Interference.jpg)



(HotHeads Dump.jpg)



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Attachments Truck Exhaust & BrakeMC.jpg (128KB - 180 downloads)
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The Adventurer
Posted 2016-02-02 1:29 AM (#503005 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I have just fitted exh manifolds to dads 57 NY and the control arm perches had to be removed to actually get to slide them on in the car . Quite a nightmare after removing the old one which was a right royal PITA !
Hope you have better luck fitting things
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Chrispy
Posted 2016-02-24 5:44 PM (#505085 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Doh, editing this, i see your using a spare engine, for some reason i thought you pulled those aluminum heads off.

Don't mind me trying to buy parts i didn't think you were using.

Edited by Chrispy 2016-02-24 5:55 PM
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Handygun
Posted 2016-02-25 6:57 PM (#505188 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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Nathan, If you used the HH mnts that Timmo talks about in his posts on the modified page possibly it would give you room, maybe? With a ding or two. Thanks for testbedding this as I am wanting to do this also but don't have all the headers you do. Sandersons always look short on tier site but who knows? 400 bucks plus to find out. High comp pistons are definitely not for a blower. Those 426 rods should measure 6.86, 92 rods are 6.96. I wouldn't run 426 rods at all they are too heavy and would be stressful on your bottom end, K1 makes a nice light 392 rod. If you have to go thru the grief of all this crank work it probably wouldn't too much more to weld the crank up and offset ground it, of course you'd need some custom pistons and more money and more. Neat car! I think the mounts are either Hurst style or like a 62 and later A or B mount.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-25 11:39 PM (#505220 - in reply to #505188)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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This is the typical hot rod mount like the one sold by hot heads. This one could work, but the angle is wrong to mate up to the frame mount. You could cut it back to make it work though and it's probably not too difficult to do. And yes, if you use these mounts, you would no longer have interference with the shorty headers. I don't have Sandersons, but the Chinese ones should work as long as you check to make sure the flange is flat enough to seal well first. I am running modified Chinese shorties on the hemi motor in my '56 Savoy, and they are really quiet after I machined the mating flange flat.

I tend to agree with you on the weight of the 426 rods. I would prefer to run H-beam rods not only for reduction in weight, but also so that I don't have to re-balance the crank, which is expensive to do it right (without re-welding those plates back on). But I need to check out what my compression ratio will be with the .100" increase in rod length. I really don't want to have to get a new set of .01" oversize pistons. This motor has very few miles on it (if any) since it was built so I want to take advantage of that as much as possible.



(392Mount2.jpg)



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Handygun
Posted 2016-02-26 7:56 AM (#505239 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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Didn't think about the existing piston moving up another .100, my bad. I used a graduated burette when I cc'ed my heads, with alc as Doc said.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-29 9:29 PM (#505527 - in reply to #505239)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I finally figured out the compression ratio. I just modeled the top of the piston, taking accurate measurements, and then used the software to calculate the piston volume. I put all the numbers into a table to calculate the compression ratio. This is what I got, but I am assuming a number for the deck height right now. I need to put the rotating assembly back together temporarily and measure that carefully. But these numbers should be close. It is clear from this that these are high compression pistons, even with the larger 110cc combustion chamber volume of the 392 head. So I will not be able to run 392 length rods with them, but they use 392 size piston pins at .984". So I am looking to see how expensive it would be to get new H-beam rods that are bushed to 392 pin size.

But I need to also weigh the stock 392 rod and 426 rod to compare them to the H-beam rod weight to see if it is even worth doing.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-03-01 2:00 AM




(392PistonTop.jpg)



(392 Compression.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2016-03-01 1:49 AM (#505546 - in reply to #505527)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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More craziness in this setup. I took a 426 rod off a piston to weigh it and found that the bushing was drilled offset. I measured the offset to be about .1"/2=.05" inches shorter. I also measured the length of the rod for a sanity check, and it is indeed the correct 426 length to within .01" accuracy that I could measure. A 426 length rod offset shorter by .05 is in between the two sizes.

392 rod length: 6.956
426 rod length: 6.865
440 rod length: 6.768
My 426 offset: 6.815

So I'm not sure which I would go for in an aftermarket rod - too long or too short.


Edited by Powerflite 2016-03-01 2:22 AM




(426OffsetRod.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2016-03-01 2:25 AM (#505549 - in reply to #505546)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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My wife happened to have a kitchen scale that could measure up to a couple of kilograms and.... she actually let me use it to weigh my rods.

My 426 rod: 1040 grams
My 354 rod (1821345): 705 grams
Stock 392 rod: 767 grams (estimated based on weight ratios of aftermarket 354 vs. 392 rods since I can't seem to find any of mine that aren't spiro-locked down onto a piston.)

Aftermarket 440 rod: 750, 820, 880 grams. at around $500/set. So potentially, there may be an aftermarket rod available that wouldn't require extra weight added to the crank to save me some rotating weight and $200-$300 in extra balancing cost if I can figure out what to do with the length issue.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-03-01 10:09 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-04-01 1:18 AM (#537130 - in reply to #505549)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Well, it only took me a year to measure and figure this out. I measured the deck height at .012" to .015", so with the proper rod length change, I should be able to calculate the resulting compression ratio. From the results, it seems that these pistons were made to be 10:1 compression with 440 rods. I guess the previous owner wanted a little more compression so he used a 426 rod and offset bushed them. I would like to be at around 11.5 compression with 100cc aluminum heads and 10.5 compression with 110cc heads. By using 440 rods, it ends up being a little lower than what I want, but the value with 100cc heads is pretty darn close. So that is what I am going to do. I didn't really want to use these overly heavy 426 rods anyway and I am now glad that I tore this thing apart. I was kicking myself for doing it previously....

But this motor is no longer slated to go into my '58 Chrysler. Now I am prepping it to go into my '57 New Yorker so I will continue it's progress in that thread.



(Compression vs. Rod.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-04-28 11:00 AM (#539040 - in reply to #537130)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I was happy to be able to replace the missing front bumper guards on this car. I really like the look with them on there. Both my '58 Desoto and this car originally came with them, but both were MIA when I got the cars.



(FrontGuards.jpg)



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kenbiello
Posted 2017-04-28 11:02 AM (#539041 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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I need a set of those front bumper guards as well. Any leads? Thanks!
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-04-28 11:07 AM (#539042 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I wish I did. It took me about 3 yrs to find the two sets.
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soiouz
Posted 2017-04-28 1:11 PM (#539046 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Is this what you guys are looking for?







(Petit.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-04-28 2:50 PM (#539052 - in reply to #539046)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Yessss. Grab em! What condition is that steering wheel in? If I were closer, I would grab a bunch of other parts off of it. Looks like a Saratoga, but what is that emblem up high on the fin?
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soiouz
Posted 2017-04-28 3:06 PM (#539054 - in reply to #539052)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Powerflite - 2017-04-28 2:50 PM

Yessss. Grab em! What condition is that steering wheel in? If I were closer, I would grab a bunch of other parts off of it. Looks like a Saratoga, but what is that emblem up high on the fin?


The car is a Canadian Windsor, so it is the same as a US Saratoga. It's really close to me, in a junkyard (as you can see from the pic), along with a red 58 New Yorker sedan, next to it. There are a lot of good parts still on those two cars.


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Powerflite
Posted 2017-04-28 3:09 PM (#539056 - in reply to #539054)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I really could use the gold emblems, aluminum side trim, & New Yorker name emblems from the New Yorker. does it have any of that stuff still on it? Also, I need the aluminum inserts on the door panels that are '58 New Yorker, 300D specific.
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soiouz
Posted 2017-04-28 3:13 PM (#539057 - in reply to #539056)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Powerflite - 2017-04-28 3:09 PM

I really could use the gold emblems, aluminum side trim, & New Yorker name emblems from the New Yorker. does it have any of that stuff still on it? Also, I need the aluminum inserts on the door panels that are '58 New Yorker, 300D specific.



I don't know about the door panels inserts, are they the same in a sedan? If they are, and you need them, last time I was there, they were still in the car, and in pretty good shape.

New Yorker emblems are gone. Side trim was changed for some kind of handy andy 57 style aftermaket trim at some point in the car's life.
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soiouz
Posted 2017-04-28 3:14 PM (#539058 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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.



(58Chry1.jpg)



(58Chry3.jpg)



(58Chry4.jpg)



(58Chry2.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-04-28 4:13 PM (#539064 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I beleive the door panel inserts are the same so I could use them - if they are actually '58 pieces. The trim on the New Yorker is '57 New Yorker trim. It could be that it is actually a '57 NY, but the front bumper & grille was swapped out to a '58. I could use that steering wheel on the Windsor. Funny, I have never seen a radio delete in these cars before. Pretty cool.
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soiouz
Posted 2017-04-28 4:45 PM (#539067 - in reply to #539064)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Powerflite - 2017-04-28 4:13 PM

I beleive the door panel inserts are the same so I could use them - if they are actually '58 pieces. The trim on the New Yorker is '57 New Yorker trim. It could be that it is actually a '57 NY, but the front bumper & grille was swapped out to a '58. I could use that steering wheel on the Windsor. Funny, I have never seen a radio delete in these cars before. Pretty cool.


The car IS a 1958, no doubt: apart from the trim "style", everything else is 58, including serial number, dashboard, data plate, power steering, etc. And the trim, I believe, is NOT 1957 New Yorker trim. It is, as I mentionned, aftermarket cheap trim in the style of a 57 New Yorker, that someone installed on this car for some reason at some point. Looking at it upclose, it's not factory and not Chrysler made.

I could get that wheel and door trim for you, if they are still there. I got (and resold) the delete plate already, to a member here. Was the first time I saw one of those in a 58 too! Pretty rare stuff.

Edited by soiouz 2017-04-28 4:49 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-04-28 5:13 PM (#539068 - in reply to #539067)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Sounds good. Thanks.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-29 12:50 AM (#555147 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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The previous motor went into my '57 New Yorker so I mounted this new motor on the stand to begin building it for the '58. It originally came from a '57 New Yorker as well, and was rebuilt recently with .03" over stock style cast pistons. It looks like it still ran when it was torn apart because it turns quite easily. There is almost no wear on all the cylinders except #7. On hole #7, there is deep, uneven wear on one side of the cylinder and a deep vertical gouge down the wall. I don't know what happened there, maybe a broken ring or something that scraped on the cylinder wall, but I am thinking I should sleeve that one cylinder and put it back together with .03" pistons. But I will probably replace the pistons (& rings of course) because these look to have quite pathetic compression - probably 9:1. Does anyone know if I can install hypereutectics or forged without changing the bore size? In other words, are all the pistons made for a .03" overbore and have the proper clearances built into the piston size, or do I need to change the bore size to get the proper clearance?
Right now I am using it as a mockup for the crossover modification.



(392 Hemi No. 6.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-01-11 2:39 PM (#556065 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I took out the #7 piston to find out what would have caused the uneven wear & gouge down the wall, but to my surprise, I found nothing wrong. The rings look great and the wrist pin & clips look good too. The bearings also have very little wear on them. My only conclusion is that someone must have put this motor together and just ignored that bad cylinder wall to run it as is. I'm not sure I want to find out how bad it runs with it like that so I am going to tear it apart and sleeve it.



(392No7Piston.jpg)



(Gouge & Uneven Wear.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-01-11 11:29 PM (#556084 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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dude that sucks...
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-01-14 2:39 AM (#556192 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Yeah, it's not great, but I can't really complain since I picked up this mostly complete motor with transmission for $1100. You can't really touch a 392 for that amount anymore. But I don't like the looks of these pistons. Looks like really lame compression ratio. I may run them with 331 heads which will boost it up 1 point, or install forged high compression pistons I have laying around. I haven't decided yet. The forged pistons have aluminum rods on them that I ran in my Barracuda during high school....
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-01-14 10:23 AM (#556201 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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I don't understand how that happens. Also I do see a fair amount of cheap blocks running around. The gouge is too deep to bore it out?

that's a good price, kind of like me. I got my whole car for 3500$ with a good hemi(non running) but had very low wear and turned over so I rebuilt it. Salvaged what I could from the wagon.(took the power steering, power brakes, front end, misc parts...
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-01-14 4:41 PM (#556226 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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The bore is already at 30 over; maybe it will come out with 60 over, but maybe not. I hate to bore everything huge to fit one bad bore.
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billy
Posted 2018-04-09 2:33 PM (#561314 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Hey Nathan, I had a Barracuda in high school also...72,,, 340 automatic.....it was the terror of my town...40 yrs ago...:)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-09 4:59 PM (#561323 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Cool, mine was a '68 with the 392 hemi & 4 speed in it. It was a lot of fun, but the motor sits better in a New Yorker.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-29 8:45 PM (#562496 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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This car is getting a frame-off job. Hope to get the frame ground, sanded & painted quickly & transferred to the body so I don't have issues with the neighborhood. But I will take some time to replace the brake & fuel lines first. I am thinking of following Mike2nd's lead and using '57 Chevy poly body mounts to replace the rubber ones.

...and just to remind myself, I need to remember to clean up the T-bar adjuster bolts & replace the shocks before it happens to make those tasks much easier than they would be with the body in place. I am also seriously considering welding up the exhaust first too, but I don't know if I can ensure it would work out once the body, fuel tank & drivetrain came into place.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-04-29 8:50 PM




(58ChryslerFrame.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-04-29 11:14 PM (#562508 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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copy cat! interesting you have a flat rubber bushing on the back frame mount.

The dodge has a thing rubber washer and a 'steel bowl', the nut is welded to the frame back there.

I got in space jam and rushed to get the body on the frame, I did get the brake line run but that's it, I would have liked to do the whole deal(engine, drivetrain, rear axle painted, rear brakes etc).

But I will just suffer No more frame sitting out in the driveway.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-01 12:39 PM (#562612 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Yeah, I'm in a hurry to get it swapped too, so I can't afford the body-off convenience that I would like. I paid my son to grind the frame and get it ready to paint. He did a good job. I only had to clean up a couple of areas afterward. I couldn't attach the shocks because they aren't quite long enough when fully extended and I don't have enough weight to compress the springs so this will have to do until I get the body back onto it. I just need to allow the paint to dry so I can install the new lines.



(Painted Frame.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-05-01 1:21 PM (#562613 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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wow that was quick... presto painted frame! looks great. Run your brake line and fuel line. How is your underbody?

I spent a ton of time getting that 100%... little issues all over but I got them all.

I protected mine so you cant get water sitting anywhere anymore. Like the trunk support brackets(i seam sealed the edges but left the drain holes so water wont wick up back there) and then coated the whole thing.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-01 2:08 PM (#562617 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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My frame has a lot of crud collected inside it at the bottom of the downturn before the axle. I am thinking of drilling a large drain hole in the bottom of it there to get it out and to prevent future issues. The body is really clean so there is very little, if any, rust repair to do on it. That's the good part. So just a little clean up, paint and it should be ready to go. But there is a dent that needs repair near a body mount that I will take care of before the body comes down.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-05-01 5:31 PM (#562628 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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I drilled some extra holes at the bottom low points and at the bottom outside ends of the rear cross brace.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-17 12:43 PM (#563569 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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These extended mounts were placed on one mount in the center of the body, in addition to rubber donuts. Underneath one of them, the frame mount had been hit and bent. I believe that caused a weird bend in the quarter panel that's going to be real fun to take out. I have no idea why they would jack up the car in the center like this. I couldn't remove them without cutting the bolt heads off. They're not going back in.



(Extended Mounts.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-05-17 7:37 PM (#563589 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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dude that weird. How in the heck did they even get in there?
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-17 7:59 PM (#563590 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Yeah, no idea why or how they got there. Putting the body on the other frame, they hinder the body from sitting flat so it doesn't seem to like them there. Maybe the original frame was poorly made with the brackets too low? I can't figure it out now because I already scrapped that frame.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-05-17 8:04 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-25 2:28 PM (#564020 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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My wife and I discussed it along with the other suggestions that were made and decided that Mr. Hudson had a good eye for color. We like the darker green roof version because it really accentuates the lighter green color under it, so that's what we are going to go with on this. I was planning to paint the roof right away, but the C pillars are bent up quite a bit - some from the factory (like usual) and one from a previous owner. In addition, there is some welding required at the bottom of the seams as well as 3-4 deep rust pits that almost go through on the top of the roof that will require welding. Weird because the roof has almost all of it's original paint in great shape, but there was some tree? acid dropped onto it in places that rusted little balls that pitted quite deep into it.

That welding will likely set the headliner & insulation on fire so all that has to be removed before any of this work can happen. This car is rare for me, in that it's headliner is in pretty good shape still, so I don't feel inclined to pull it down yet. Long story short, I am just going to prime and seal the roof and save the welding & body work for another day. That means final paint on it will have to wait until I am ready to replace the headliner.



(58NY GreenRoof.jpg)



(Rock Hudson 58NY.jpg)



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57burb
Posted 2018-05-25 4:41 PM (#564024 - in reply to #564020)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Of all the options you showed, this one was my favorite. Second favorite was light green with the silver roof (that matched the anodized insert on the quarter panel).
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-27 9:26 PM (#564111 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Great minds think alike! I am liking these color more and more. This is the current state of the car. The body is in place on the frame, but not bolted down yet. I did some surface rust removal on the fins and roof. I will try to get the roof in a solid coat of primer on my day off tomorrow. I also replaced the left rear window because it was broken. I was surprised to find that the pot metal frame at the bottom of the window was corroded quite badly. I had one from back east that was surprisingly in much better shape so I used that one to replace it. The front fenders are from my '57 New Yorker. This is a convenient place to store them out of my way and it makes the car look more complete than it is. The door molding is from a 4dr New Yorker so that's why it is a little short. I'm going to have to stitch some trim together to get it all there. I have a lot of work to do on it before I can put it together. Hopefully it won't take too long. I'm working on the rear brakes on the Coronet at the same time....not sure what's wrong with them yet.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-05-27 9:29 PM




(58NY Body.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-09 6:37 PM (#564909 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I finished the Scarebird disc conversion on it this morning - except for the plumbing. Only 15" wheels for it now like my other cars. I also installed a set of KYB shocks on the front (not shown yet in picture).

Edited by Powerflite 2018-06-10 1:11 AM




(58NY Disc Brakes.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-06-10 12:47 AM (#564920 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe


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I went with scare birds also. I dont mind 15's. I might go 16
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-10 1:10 AM (#564921 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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It just makes hubcap selection more of a pain. But at least for the Dodge, you can get 15" spinners in the original design for them.
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1960fury
Posted 2018-06-10 8:19 AM (#564930 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Looks good!!!
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-23 12:29 AM (#565481 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Thanks Sid. I got the side trim installed on it. This side of the car has an outward dent in it that needs fixing, but I wanted to get the trim in place and all set up. I am using 4dr aluminum trim so I need to figure out what the best approach is to make it look more uniform at the junction. Welding them together sounds scary and epoxy doesn't sound like it would last. I am going to use 15" '59 Imperial hubcaps on it. I am thinking the gold gears in the center of the hubcaps will go well with the gold emblems to compliment each other.



(58NY Trim.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-07-21 1:41 PM (#566953 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I'm thinking of putting this '63 New Yorker emblem at the seat dip area. It seems to match the gold 'C" emblem style of the car and the seat dip position very well. I am not a fan of the embossed vinyl factory patterns here. They look cheap to me yet cost a fortune. So I am trying to come up with something that will look better.



(Chrysler Emblem.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-04 3:41 AM (#571127 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I disassembled the firewall to begin prep for paint. The hole in the firewall for the shifter cable was butchered on this car - probably to remove the cable without removing the bracket on the end of it first. I welded in a patch today to fix it. There was also an extra screw hole just below it that I welded in. Came out nice and will require only a tiny amount of filler to blend in the edges of the weld to the rest of the firewall.



(Firewall Hole Before.jpg)



(Firewall Hole Partially Welded.jpg)



(Firewall Hole Patched.jpg)



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mogge65
Posted 2018-10-25 2:14 AM (#572330 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: Re: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Nathan, great project i also have a 57 Newyorker 4 dr / ht i tinkering with. i wonder if you could help me change colors on a picture. my car is the same mint green you are using but white roof. i got this pic and wondered if you could change it



(chrysler_1957_new_yorker_rust_01.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-25 2:45 AM (#572331 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I think Danny is much better than I am at this sort of thing, but this is what I came up with.



(chrysler_1957_new_yorker_mint.jpg)



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mogge65
Posted 2018-10-25 10:33 AM (#572342 - in reply to #572331)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Superthanks
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-25 10:32 PM (#572378 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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Looks great, I’m thinking white vinyl with mint green cloth inserts would suit it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-26 1:01 AM (#578652 - in reply to #498001)
Subject: RE: '58 New Yorker Coupe



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I put the front end back together with the proper inner and outer fenders on it to move it off the driveway. That'll give me room to work on everything else that needs general maintenance work done. I am going to concentrate on the white/green '57 New Yorker as well before I tackle this one any more because it's motor is closer to being ready to go. So this one gets moved out of the way to wait it's turn.



(58NY In Waiting.jpg)



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