Evolution of a Taillight Design
56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-24 9:59 AM (#549047)
Subject: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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A neighbour stopped by yesterday with his 57 Lincoln Premiere. Beautiful car. The taillights reminded me of something. Wait a minute...

55 Plymouth? Nope, close but nope.



56 Plymouth? Closer but nope.



57 Plymouth? Now we're talking. Real close. Too close even.



And finally, the 1957 Lincoln Premiere (did the guy who designed this used to work at Plymouth?)



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-09-24 11:07 AM




(57LincolnPremiere.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-09-24 11:18 AM (#549057 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design


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ford only knew how to steal designs... and make them more awkward...
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wizard
Posted 2017-09-24 11:36 AM (#549062 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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I like the exterior design on those Linc's, but the interior leaves very much to wish for....
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58sportsuburban
Posted 2017-09-24 7:12 PM (#549078 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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How can a design be copied for the same model year cars...
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-24 8:13 PM (#549082 - in reply to #549078)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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58sportsuburban - 2017-09-24 7:12 PM
How can a design be copied for the same model year cars...


Never heard of industrial espionage?

(I don't know but apparently secrets weren't kept too well)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-24 8:19 PM (#549084 - in reply to #549078)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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At one time I parked Dodges (one from each year from
1955 to 1961) next to each other in my yard. I have always
thought the 61 Dodge was utterly bizarre and disconnected
to everything before or after, but in the lineup (at least with
a Polara) it was easy to see how the styling evolution worked,
even if the end result was bizarre.





(DSC05227.jpg)



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Ray
Posted 2017-09-24 9:05 PM (#549086 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design


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Mopar espionage on the other end ?



Edited by Ray 2017-09-24 9:08 PM




(1959-lincoln-convertible-std.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-24 10:26 PM (#549089 - in reply to #549086)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Of course ! FOMOCO knew Mopar would use the canted headlight design in
1961, so they stole the idea and put them on the 1958 Lincoln before Mopar
could act on it ! Buick also stole the idea for 59 ! What a bunch of thieves !!!
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57chizler
Posted 2017-09-25 2:49 PM (#549137 - in reply to #549057)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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mikes2nd - 2017-09-24 8:18 AM

ford only knew how to steal designs... and make them more awkward...


So what non-Ford did they steal the Edsel design from?
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Old Ray
Posted 2017-09-25 2:58 PM (#549139 - in reply to #549137)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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57chizler - 2017-09-25 12:49 PM So what non-Ford did they steal the Edsel design from?


...........some poor old plow horse is missing its collar !
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Chrycoman
Posted 2017-09-26 7:45 AM (#549176 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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For Lincoln's ancestry - from 1954 to 1957. And the last two photos show some strong influence on the 1957 Lincoln fin.




(1954 Lincoln Rear End.jpg)



(1955 Lincoln Capri 2dr Hardtop - Rear Quarter.jpg)



(1956 Lincoln Premiere 2dr Convertible 01.jpg)



(1957 Lincoln Premiere 2dr Hardtop 02.jpg)



(1955 Lincoln Futura Show Car 02.jpg)



(1957 Lincoln Capri 2dr Hardtop 01.jpg)



(1955 Lincoln Futura Show Car 03.jpg)



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Attachments 1957 Lincoln Premiere 2dr Hardtop 02.jpg (271KB - 6 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-09-26 9:26 AM (#549178 - in reply to #549086)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design


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Ray - 2017-09-24 9:05 PM

Mopar espionage on the other end ?

yeah no one could imagine placing headlights in a differnet orientation??? such innovative design work...

 

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firedome
Posted 2017-09-26 10:29 AM (#549180 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: RE: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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The 57 Linc tail-light design clearly evolved within the line, as shown above.
Always wanted a '56, one of the classiest designs ever, but settled for a '57
in Salmon & White colors and priced right about 7 yrs ago, however didn't
like how it drove at all, sold it.

A '56 drives about the same, so beauty is as beauty does, or not, in that case.
Mopar was way ahead in handling at that point. The '57 Lincoln was FoMoCo's
best attempt, though 2nd rate, at ForwardLook-like styling.

Edited by firedome 2017-09-26 10:34 AM




(57Linc.jpg)



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59 in Calif
Posted 2017-09-26 2:05 PM (#549206 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design


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So did the 53 - 54 Chry and the 53 - 54 Chev steal the tail light design from each other too ??? Geeze, Guys !!! It was just the styling of the times and IMO just coincidental. Jerry
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57burb
Posted 2017-09-26 5:02 PM (#549224 - in reply to #549206)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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I always thought the '57 Lincoln was trying a little too hard to get that angular / Googie design into a car. The '56 Lincoln is a top-five design of the 1950s.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2017-09-28 12:53 AM (#549323 - in reply to #549224)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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The 1956 Lincoln 2 door hardtop is my favourite Lincoln of the pre-1961 models. Almost an introduction to the 1957 Mopar hardtops. The 4 door sedan was something else. Not sure what, though.




(1956 Lincoln Premiere 2dr Hardtop F5601.jpg)



(1956 Lincoln Premiere 4dr Sedan 45.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-28 2:14 AM (#549330 - in reply to #549323)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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The 56 Lincoln was a masterpiece. It was a wallowing garbage scow
of a land yacht, but it sure looked good doing it ! I guess when you
bought a Lincoln, a soft, cushy ride was expected.
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-09-28 8:22 AM (#549339 - in reply to #549323)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Chrycoman - 2017-09-27 11:53 PM


The 1956 Lincoln 2 door hardtop is my favourite Lincoln of the pre-1961 models. Almost an introduction to the 1957 Mopar hardtops. The 4 door sedan was something else. Not sure what, though.


I know what the 4 door above was---UGLY!

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-29 10:56 AM (#549405 - in reply to #549339)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Really ? ... and this from a guy with a 59 Firesweep four door sedan ???

I am drenched in irony !!!
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-09-29 10:06 PM (#549435 - in reply to #549405)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-09-29 9:56 AM


Really ? ... and this from a guy with a 59 Firesweep four door sedan ???

I am drenched in irony !!!


Yeah Doc, and I, along with many others, are enjoying our ugly '59 FLs a lot more than you appear to be enjoying your beautiful '58s!


Edited by Viper Guy 2017-09-29 10:15 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-30 2:25 AM (#549453 - in reply to #549435)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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I enjoy mine just fine. I'd enjoy a 56 Lincoln too.
Even as a 4-door.
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-09-30 6:51 AM (#549462 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Speaking of the evolution of tail lights, '56 through '59 DeSotos all had the towered three tiered style that broke away from the norm. I guess it was instigated by some stylist at the DeSoto division that got the attention of the big wigs and won their approval. That was one feature that is distinctively DeSoto to this day!

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Ozzie 61
Posted 2017-09-30 7:37 AM (#549467 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Yeah and Chevy turned them on their side for 1960 and used that in various forms for over a decade!
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mstrug
Posted 2017-09-30 12:04 PM (#549480 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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59 Chevy's had cats eye tail lights. 1960 had 2 or 3 round cone shaped tail lights. Marc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1959+cats+eyes&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source...

https://www.google.com/search?q=1960+chevrolet+tail&source=lnms&tbm=...

Edited by mstrug 2017-09-30 6:45 PM
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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2017-09-30 12:19 PM (#549481 - in reply to #549480)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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mstrug - 2017-09-30 11:04 AM 59 Chevy's had cats eye tail lights. 1969 had 2 or 3 round cone shaped tail lights. Marc. https://www.google.com/search?q=1959+cats+eyes&tbm=isch&tbo=... https://www.google.com/search?q=1960+chevrolet+tail&source=lnms&...

 

You're thinking of the 1960 Chevy with the cone shaped lights. By 1969 the lights were square or rectangular. Top of the line Chevies had three lights per side; lesser models made do with two.



Edited by 58 DESOTOS RULE 2017-09-30 12:34 PM




(1960 Chevy Impala.jpg)



(1969 Chevy Impala rear-resized.jpg)



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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-09-30 12:52 PM (#549482 - in reply to #549047)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Getting back to the Forward Look, some Dodges have two tier vertical lights ('55, '56, '57, etc) but there may have been others too. None like the tri light tower DeSotos though.

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-30 1:48 PM (#549485 - in reply to #549482)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Chevrolet started that two/three horizontal tail light theme
in 1958 and kept using it on certain models for the next 30+
years. Even some of the mono-unit lamp assemblies have
little dividers breaking up the larger unit to carry the theme.
Even the rather radical 59 teardrop unit is broken up this way.
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-09-30 4:50 PM (#549493 - in reply to #549485)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-09-30 12:48 PM

Chevrolet started that two/three horizontal tail light theme
in 1958 and kept using it on certain models for the next 30+
years. Even some of the mono-unit lamp assemblies have
little dividers breaking up the larger unit to carry the theme.
Even the rather radical 59 teardrop unit is broken up this way.


Who cares?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-30 6:51 PM (#549494 - in reply to #549493)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Got a little "attitude", do we ?

Look, I do not think Mopar was the only car worth owning, just
as I hold contempt for those assclowns who thing only Fords or
Chevys are worthy of interest. Did Mopar have a strong run while
Exner was with them ? Yes. Were some of the FL cars ugly or
mechanical/rust nightmares ? HELL YES !

Were other fin era cars besides Mopars interesting ? Feel free to
turn your nose up at them (more irony), but it is only you who
gets a limited scope of enjoyment by doing so.

I don't own a Chevy. Not to say I would, but some are interesting.
I WOULD NOT own a 59 DeSoto, or a 54 Plymouth, or a 63 Dodge.
I think they are boring or bad design, and I like design. Some designs
are good, and some are boring, and others still are just a joke. Noting
a consistent theme such as the tail light design of the DeSoto or Chevy
.... what's the difference ? It is DESIGN.
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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-09-30 7:10 PM (#549496 - in reply to #549494)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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I gotta side with Doc on this one.

Yes, this is a Mopar forum. And yes, we all have pride in our cars, and obviously all feel Chrysler products warrant our affection and attention. And yes, I tease the GM/Ford/whatever guys when I can.

But . . .

We're all car guys. And while my first car was a '68 Satellite, and my current is a '60 Desoto, and many of the in-betweens were Dodges and Plymouths, I've also owned many Fords, GMs and a handful of foreign cars. Some were good, some (including Mopes) were not. Not all of my favorites carried the Chrysler logo.

The point is that it's not about the name on the trunk lid. Yeah '57 Chevy's are like belly buttons, but only a fool would pretend that it isn't a good looking car. And easy to build. And so on.

One of the things I've learned over the years is guys who spend all their time hating - and I mean really nasty angry hating - on other guys cars are just jealous. Of what who knows - maybe they built a Chevy and wish they'd done something that stood out more. Maybe they built a Dodge and wish they'd done something easier. Maybe they haven't built anything and wish they could. Or maybe they've built it all, and they're either bored or can't understand why no one cares about their accomplishments. Or maybe they're just jealous of anyone who is still excited to be in the hobby.

Or maybe they're just dicks who would be dicks no matter what hobby they chose.

I like cars. Lots of different kinds. Some a lot - like most Chryslers. Some not at all like Camaro's. But I still respect the build if the work is well done. And I like car guys - real car guys who understand the hobby is about appreciating the work and passion of other guys - be it the guys who built them in Detroit or wherever, or the guy who built it in his garage.

Who cares? you ask?

I care.


Gregg

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60 Imp
Posted 2017-09-30 9:52 PM (#549504 - in reply to #549496)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design


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LostDeere59 - 2017-10-01 9:10 AM


I gotta side with Doc on this one.

Yes, this is a Mopar forum. And yes, we all have pride in our cars, and obviously all feel Chrysler products warrant our affection and attention. And yes, I tease the GM/Ford/whatever guys when I can.

But . . .

We're all car guys. And while my first car was a '68 Satellite, and my current is a '60 Desoto, and many of the in-betweens were Dodges and Plymouths, I've also owned many Fords, GMs and a handful of foreign cars. Some were good, some (including Mopes) were not. Not all of my favorites carried the Chrysler logo.

The point is that it's not about the name on the trunk lid. Yeah '57 Chevy's are like belly buttons, but only a fool would pretend that it isn't a good looking car. And easy to build. And so on.

One of the things I've learned over the years is guys who spend all their time hating - and I mean really nasty angry hating - on other guys cars are just jealous. Of what who knows - maybe they built a Chevy and wish they'd done something that stood out more. Maybe they built a Dodge and wish they'd done something easier. Maybe they haven't built anything and wish they could. Or maybe they've built it all, and they're either bored or can't understand why no one cares about their accomplishments. Or maybe they're just jealous of anyone who is still excited to be in the hobby.

Or maybe they're just dicks who would be dicks no matter what hobby they chose.

I like cars. Lots of different kinds. Some a lot - like most Chryslers. Some not at all like Camaro's. But I still respect the build if the work is well done. And I like car guys - real car guys who understand the hobby is about appreciating the work and passion of other guys - be it the guys who built them in Detroit or wherever, or the guy who built it in his garage.

Who cares? you ask?

I care.


Gregg


Good summary Gregg. Design is a massive part of my choice to follow the FL years Chrysler Corporation vehicles.

To get this back on track, as this is an interesting topic, anyone have a theory on the FL Imperial line tail light design?
This is taking a different tack, but in-line with the OP and Mopar.
From what I can tell the Imperial tail lights are an evolution of the K - 310 and C - 200 concepts.
This looks to be an exclusive design theme from Chrysler (read EXNER) that carried over from the concept cars to quite a few years of production years (55 to 62?).
I find it interesting that the free standing and Sparrow strainer/gun-sight style lights seem to be a Mopar only design cue, and that the evolution of them saw some really extraordinary designs.
A FL Imperial tail light cannot be mistaken for belonging to anything but a FL Imperial, and I like that!

Steve.



Edited by 60 Imp 2017-09-30 9:58 PM
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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-09-30 10:16 PM (#549509 - in reply to #549504)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Having recently finished reading Exner's biography it was made pretty clear that the "gunsight" taillight was a pet design of his. There were also some indications that he may have patented the design as was commonplace with styling elements at the time, although Chrysler of course retained the rights to the patent.

So based on those thoughts I would guess that once he used it, it became established as a "signature" element for the Imperial, so Chrysler stuck with it.

And other manufacturers either decided it was too associated with the Imperial, too difficult to make different enough to avoid patent infringement issues, or just too ugly to consider.

I'm not particularly a fan, but you can't deny they stand out - not only at the time but across many years of automotive design - and are clearly Imperial and Exner.


Gregg
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-09-30 10:31 PM (#549510 - in reply to #549494)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-09-30 5:51 PM

Got a little "attitude", do we ?

Look, I do not think Mopar was the only car worth owning, just
as I hold contempt for those assclowns who thing only Fords or
Chevys are worthy of interest. Did Mopar have a strong run while
Exner was with them ? Yes. Were some of the FL cars ugly or
mechanical/rust nightmares ? HELL YES !

Were other fin era cars besides Mopars interesting ? Feel free to
turn your nose up at them (more irony), but it is only you who
gets a limited scope of enjoyment by doing so.

I don't own a Chevy. Not to say I would, but some are interesting.
I WOULD NOT own a 59 DeSoto, or a 54 Plymouth, or a 63 Dodge.
I think they are boring or bad design, and I like design. Some designs
are good, and some are boring, and others still are just a joke. Noting
a consistent theme such as the tail light design of the DeSoto or Chevy
.... what's the difference ? It is DESIGN.


Sorry Doc - no "attitude" - I was only referring to the 30 years worth of Chevy horizontal tri-lights you rambled on about.

Like many on here, I own different makes of cars and probably always will. I value this particular part of the forum as MoPar and even more particular the Forward Look
era. Everyone has their own prefferences and that's great - otherwise this world would be extremely boring when it comes to automobiles.

One car in particular I have always found favor with is one that most on here would probably never think twice about and that is the Pontiac Fiero. I happen to own an '86 GT that is a very "fun" car to drive in my opinion. But that's me and I don't care if anybody else doesn't care.

Let's just move on - no hard feelings.




(IMG_0772.JPG)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-09-30 11:41 PM (#549514 - in reply to #549510)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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I liked the GT version of the Fiero. The slant-forward ass on the
non-GT, not so much. Better aesthetic balance on the GT ... better
design.
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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-10-01 6:15 PM (#549548 - in reply to #549510)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design



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I remember Fiero's - both the gen 1 and later gen 2 cars.

The later cars, which were actually close to the original design (less X-Body parts, McPherson struts all around, etc) were pretty good little scoots - its a shame that the well was already poisoned by then and sales never recovered.

Although to this day I'll pass on doing sparkplugs on a V-6 version every time . . . .



Gregg
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62 413
Posted 2017-10-02 10:26 AM (#549601 - in reply to #549548)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design


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This is tho only fin that is functional !!
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62 413
Posted 2017-10-02 10:32 AM (#549604 - in reply to #549548)
Subject: Re: Evolution of a Taillight Design


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I prefer my tail lights and fin (which is functional ) over most even though I've had others !!

Edited by 62 413 2017-10-02 10:40 AM




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