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Location: So. Cal | This car migrated its way to my place. This is likely the last forwardlook car I will purchase, other than a parts car. It is all original with power door locks (never knew that was available in '60), power windows, mirrormatic, goldentouch radio, swivel seats (I think manual, but I'm not sure), & power steering and brakes of course. The electro-luminescent lighting doesn't work so that is one of the things on the repair list. The floors and rockers are completely free of rust, but the trunk pan is completely missing from rust, and it rotted out the lower quarters as well. How flat are these trunk pans supposed to be? Would the cheap Ebay pans work OK? A picture of a good trunk pan would be nice.
It runs & drives with very old tires, but over the weekend I converted it to electronic ignition, replaced the starter with a high torque version since the original had some issues, and did a minor tune-up. It runs very well now with gobs of power. It's nice how much these big blocks get these big cars moving! The exhaust is too far inside the car as it lets a considerable amount of exhaust into the open trunk pan. So I will likely extend them out to the sides until I can get the trunk welded up. As soon as I can build up my bank account again, I will order some fabric from SMS so I can sit on the seats without a separate pillow to sit on. 
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Very nice!! I also own a 60 Chrysler (Saratoga) 2 door hardtop. Those cables snaking across your front floors are the cables that operate the automatic swivel seats, so your car has the automatic ones, though they may not work. The cables usually broke off where they come through the door jamb to the hinge connection. If you check your door jambs there should also be a vertical torsion bar that works in conjunction with the automatic units, to help pull the door open and swivel the seat out when you exit the car. My cables were also broken, and I ended up removing the torsion bars from the jambs, and disconnected the seat-return springs which are located under the rear of each seat, which effectively makes them manual swivel seats. I think Smitty on the forum here has new cables available, and since you have no carpet in there it would be the time to replace the cables if you want to keep the automatic function. My upholstery and carpets had already been re-done before I bought my car and I didn't want to pull it all apart to replace the cables.
As to your dash lighting, Jeff Carter, http://www.jcauto.com rebuilds the electroluminescent power supplys for these cars.
Edited by imopar380 2017-10-23 3:36 PM
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Is this the car that was for sale in the Wenatchee, Washington area? |
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Location: So. Cal | Thanks for the great info! I was wondering what those vertical bars were for in the door jams. I'll send Smitty a PM once I get the funds available again. Yes, this is the car from Washington. I didn't originally think to purchase it, but the more I checked it over, the more I liked it. My wife and I were thinking of painting it a turquoise-ish blue to match the interior, but looking at this other car, I am thinking of just keeping it white. We'll see.
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | It would look stunning in turquoise as well. Factory color of Bluegrass metallic is quite nice. Mine's been painted a non stock color but similar to 1961 Tahitian Turquoise and I have a turquoise interior as well.
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Location: So. Cal | Very nice! I like the subtle 2-tone that you have on there too. I wish my exhaust exited where yours does. Mine exits near the beginning of the tail lights and goes straight into the trunk. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Congrats, nice Project! The car has the correct MirrorMatic and the Safe-T-Matic vacuum door locks as well as the Golden Touch 7-button radio - as Ian noted, also the very rare automatic swivel seats. |
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Location: central Illinois | Here's a reproduction floor pan I bought 4 or 5 yrs ago. Unfortunately it was the last one he made but should give you an idea of how they looked.
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Your car also looks like it has a power antenna ( fin mount antenna is power).
John at Big-M Auto http://www.bigmauto.com may have a good used trunk pan.
Edited by imopar380 2017-10-23 5:12 PM
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Location: So. Cal | Sven: Thanks, unfortunately, the mirror-matic has been taken apart and held together with rubber bands now. I need to figure out how to put it back together and see what it needs. I will be referencing your great thread on repairing the electroluminescent lighting. Thanks for documenting that!
Greg: That pan looks great and the majority of it does look flat. I might be able to get away with making something out of flat stock and putting the beads into it. I'm not sure how much of the non-flat portions I am missing though, but your picture should give me a good idea. Thanks for the picture!
Ian: Yes you are right, it does look like a power version. If John has a pan available that would be the easiest solution so I will definitely check with him.
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | I think this New Yorker is in Bluegrass Metallic, with the turquoise interior!
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Location: So. Cal | That's really pretty. Very tempting. I love the seat fabric in these cars too. I can't imagine having one with plain vinyl. |
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| Yes the cables and extra springs give it away.
The automatic swiveling seat are super rare. How many has anyone ever seen?
It was discontinued early in 1960. That and the other options on the car make it pretty special.
Edited by sonaramic300 2017-10-24 9:48 PM
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | I sold the door jamb torsion bars and brackets, plus the seat-return springs under the back of the seats to a guy in NY who wanted them for a 60 Phoenix convertible he is restoring.
I'm happy with mine working as manual swivels.
Mine also have the six way power option.
So mine were once automatic power swivel seats, now they are manual power swivel seats!! Does that make sense? ;-)
Edited by imopar380 2017-10-25 12:03 AM
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Location: Hickory, NC | Awesome car! I once saw a 1960 Dodge 4dr sedan with no options...but it had power door locks...really odd!
I'd highly recommend not dealing with SMS. I went through all kinds of BS with them recently trying to get '58 Fury fabric. I will never use them again. I've dealt with them 3 times..all three times they pulled some kinda scam on me. Sending me the wrong material and claiming its correct twice...and then not sending anything at all!
Key note: They like to take your money even if they don't have the material after saying they do. It took 4 months and getting my bank involved before that scammer Doug refunded my money. If you do decide to tempt fate...better make sure they actually have it in stock...it would probably be of your best interest to drive to Oregon and pick it up yourself.
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The New Yorker fabric is named "Congo" even though the pattern looks like snow-stars. It's doubtful that you'll find this material from another supplier than SMS.
I got my order through in less than 3 months when I ordered material for my Saratoga back in 2007.
From what I hear, SMS have looms for to make new material, but that will clearly take longer time. |
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Location: So. Cal | Thanks for the diagram Scott. Nice to see that detail without having to take the seats out. It turns out my seats are 6 way power as well, and they work to move the seats back, but no other direction. I should have guessed it from seeing the large red power line going to the seat, but sometimes I am a little slow.
I hear ya Austin. I hate dealing with some of the vendors we are stuck with like SMS; but there really isn't anyone else in the market if you want the original fabric like I do. I could try telling them I will pay for the fabric when they have it in stock. Send it within a month or I will recall the charge. But, the drawback with this approach is they probably won't weave some fabric especially for me, but if they get another order for the same thing, then they might make enough of it to sell some to me. I may try that approach with some of my 57 Chryslers and see how it goes, but I really need this fabric on the '60 so I may just pay and wait/hope for the best.
Someone painted the originally gold air cleaner black at some point so I took some time to strip it and make it gold again. Much better.  The new decal for it is in the mail.
Edited by Powerflite 2017-10-26 4:49 PM
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | That air cleaner will look good on a nicely detailed engine!! This is mine, before and after .
The decal is on the wrong side though, but I've since put a new one on the other side - had to repaint the air cleaner again!
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Location: So. Cal | Nicely done! I really like those valve cover decals. The golden lion motif is pretty neat. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest | I assume that you've given the guys at https://originalauto.com/ a call already? |
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Location: So. Cal | Not yet. I will give them a try, but I don't have much hope. When I called them about seat covers for my '57 Windsors, '58 DeSoto, 58 Dodge & 56 Plymouth, they had nothing. But I guess it doesn't hurt to try again for a '60.
I picked up a really nice set of short ram manifolds & all of the hardware (minus exhaust) for the car today at Fall Fling. It even came with NOS balance tube hoses. As I was looking it over, a guy offered to give me cash and trade for a modified set of long rams. These long rams have had the divider wall removed at the mid section to effectively turn them into short rams. So that's why they are welded up on the sides. They have also had the choke wells removed and were setup to be run in some stock car racing class. I don't mind because I will be converting these to use port fuel injection with a completely dry intake. Seems like a better idea to modify a set of highly modified manifolds to run EFI than to do it to a rare set of original short rams in great shape. Not only that but the money offer was too good to refuse
I also have the original exhaust manifolds for them, but I'm not sure yet if I will use them. I need to get a set of air cleaner tops, but the bottoms will be custom to use with the larger throat throttle bodies. All this won't come together for many years though, I'm sure. It isn't a high priority.
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Location: So. Cal | The decal makes it look better. I haven't yet figured out where I can put the coil so it is less visible. The valve covers are next.
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Location: So. Cal | Something is missing on my E-brake to make it work properly. Can anyone tell me what it is so I can ask John at BigM to get me one? Is it just a bracket that is missing to mount it to the dash or is that bent bracket supposed to mount to the dash and is just mangled & ripped?
Edited by Powerflite 2017-11-04 3:20 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Hilltown, PA |
The handle is in the released position, so the pedal won't ratchet or lock.
If you lift the release handle upwards the pawl (sharkfin looking thing) SHOULD be spring loaded to catch on the bracket and hold the release handle up - which engages the ratchet for the pedal.
To release the brake you pull the release handle forward LIGHTLY to release the pawl, then push it DOWN to release the pedal ratchet.
Weird, but works.
If you don't know how it functions the temptation is to pull the release like a normal e-brake and then you just break the handle off . . .
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Location: northern germany | Powerflite - 2017-11-04 3:17 PM
Something is missing on my E-brake to make it work properly. Can anyone tell me what it is so I can ask John at BigM to get me one? Is it just a bracket that is missing to mount it to the dash or is that bent bracket supposed to mount to the dash and is just mangled & ripped?
Never seen a 60/61 fl e-brake like that. the ones with the lock safety release handle usually have a straight foot lever, not a curved one. as there was a production change from non lock (with a curved foot lever) to lock handle with a different parkbrake mechanism, in the 1960 calender year, could be somebody tried to adapt the newer handle to the older parking brake? |
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Location: Hilltown, PA | It seems exactly like mine . . .
First pic is with the e-brake applied and locked - note the pawl is hooked on the assembly.
Second pic is with the release handle pulled straight out - the pawl is clear of the bracket.
Third pic is with the release handle pushed down, resulting in the release of the pedal assembly and e-brake.
Last pic is the e-brake still released, but the handle lifted back up and the pawl re-locked.
Edited by LostDeere59 2017-11-05 12:39 PM
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Location: Hilltown, PA |
Looking at the pics again I think unless something in the mechanism is frozen/jammed, his issue is that the release handle rod is bent downwards behind the pawl.
Mine has a slight bend (and could probably stand to be straightened to raise the handle slightly) but his appears severely bent.
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | This is your last of the four photos. Based on the position of the roll pin by the spring, isn't the eBrake on, not off? I might be missing something. 
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Location: Hilltown, PA | 56D500boy - 2017-11-05 12:46 PM
This is your last of the four photos. Based on the position of the roll pin by the spring, isn't the eBrake on, not off? I might be missing something.
The release handle and pedal operate separately.
If you look at the distance between the pedal and the bolt head you will see that the PEDAL is in the released position, so the e-brake is off.
You are correct that the pin/spring/pawl is in the extended position - this allows the pawl to engage the bracket, which holds the release handle in the upper position against (or near) the bottom of the dash. So with the pedal RELEASED and the handle UP, the vehicle is ready to drive.
The confusion here is that we're all used to pulling the release handle out, and that releases the pedal, and then we just let go of the handle and it returns to the stored position by itself. On this type of assembly pulling the handle out ONLY releases the pawl that holds the handle up - you can tug on that handle in the out direction all day long (or until you break it or bend it) and the e-brake will not release. ONLY when you push the release handle DOWN towards the floor will the pedal (and therefor e-brake) be released. At that point the release handle is hanging down, pretty much in the way, so by lifting it back up towards the dash, and releasing the outwards tension on it, the pawl re-locks on the bracket and holds the release handle up out of the way.
The horizontal travel of the release handle is very short - perhaps 1/2 inch - because it only releases the handle from storage. It's the vertical motion that releases the e-brake.
Gregg
Edited by LostDeere59 2017-11-05 1:19 PM
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Location: Lower Mainland BC | Gregg: Thanks. I *WAS* missing something. It is clear(er) now. Certainly a different design than I am used to.
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Location: northern germany | LostDeere59 - 2017-11-05 12:27 PM
It seems exactly like mine . . .
okay learned someting new but in the 30 years with these cars i never saw that version, but i'm only "dealing" with plymouth, dodge and desoto. maybe this is a chrysler only, or long wheelbase thing. |
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Location: Hilltown, PA |
Mine's a Desoto Fireflite, and a SWB at that . . .
But after almost 60 years who's to say if it's original. There is plenty on this car that isn't
Gregg |
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Location: So. Cal | Thanks a lot for the info and photos Gregg! I checked it out and once I broke the rust free to make the handle move properly, it works exactly as you describe. Very weird they did it this way but it does seem to work. To me it seemed like something was missing to latch on to, and I would have never guessed that they intentionally allow it to flop down like that. Releasing in backwards fashion only adds to the mystery, but it seems all is completely normal.  |
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Location: So. Cal | Here is the body tag. Not much info on here like most LA built body tags.
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Location: Perth Australia | This is the one in my 60 Plymouth
Only modification is someone made brackets to mount it on the rhs and twisted the pedal accordingly
I think both park brakes above are missing the small spring that lifts the release handle back up.
If you look at the pictures, its the one you see between the mechanism and the A pillar, on yours, it is next to your left foot (easy to get to)
You can see the empty holes on lost deeres pics
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Location: So. Cal | It took me a while to figure out how to get the '60 Imperial hubcaps to mount to the newer 15x7" wheels. I had to modify the inner structure on them quite a bit, but they sit flat to the rim now and should hopefully stay on. I am planning to fill the "Imperial" lettering on the caps with bondo and then paint that ring silver....or I may just leave it. I'll try it out on one and see what it looks like. But I really like the way these Cali whitewalls & Imperial caps look on here!
I made the mistake of looking under the car and found a rubber expansion plug in the oil pan drain (that was leaking). I pulled it out to find that the threads were completely stripped. So I ordered a tap in the next size up, an oddball 11/16-20 thread used only on '42-'58 Buicks. The tap is coming from China of course so my car is an inclined monument for at least a month until it arrives.
Edited by Powerflite 2018-07-03 11:42 AM
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Location: So. Cal | I received the tap from China yesterday so I tapped the drain plug on the oil pan to 11/16-20 and it worked out perfectly. I used grease on the tap to hopefully retain the shavings to keep them from going into the oil pan. It didn't work. There were quite a bit of metal shavings in there by the time I was finished. I used a powerful magnet attached to a small rod to extract them all out of there. It took multiple times, but I did get them all out that way. I noticed that the oil smelled a little like gasoline so I replaced the fuel pump while I was there. Better safe than sorry. Took it for a drive and it handles really nicely with the new wheels and tires. I really like them, and no issues with the hubcaps staying put either, so I am happy about that. |
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Location: So. Cal | My trunk latch has an enormous amount of slop in it. It is bad enough that you can't open the trunk without jiggling the latch by poking a wire on it from underneath the lid. It doesn't look easy to fix either because it is loose at the actual latch so everything would have to come apart to attempt to fix it. Since I had the remainder of a third latch, I decided to modify a newer latch from a 1985 Plymouth Aries to work with the '60 Chrysler. This latch is really tight like it should be. I cut up the rusted old piece and welded it onto the new one, and cut off the parts that weren't supposed to be on it. I also welded the top ridge on the 2nd guide because the new one didn't have it. This was mainly just to make it look more like the original when you open the trunk because that's the only part of it that you really see. It came out really well, and I am pleased with how it works. Nice solid function without futzing with it anymore.
I noticed that I forgot to weld the ridge to the other side near the remainder of the part number. I will do that tomorrow to make it look better. One annoying thing was that I had to open up the latch by 1/16" because the old catch is bigger than the new one. But it a small enough difference that you can do it with a file.
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Nice work. I used a modern latch from an 80s mopar with the electric option and modified it to fit my 60 Saratoga.
I also welded an adapter plate to the rear but only have 2 of the screw mounts instead of 3 as in the original.
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Location: So. Cal | That's a nice setup. I have used them in the past, but didn't end up using the electric function very much.
It turns out that the bar wasn't too big, but that you have to get the angle just perfect on the latch or it won't go in. I had a really difficult time with it at first, but by putting a chamfer on the edges of the latch, it gave me more wiggle room to make it work better. I finished welding the other part of the ridge on the right side so it looks better now.
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Location: So. Cal | I picked up these A/C vents from a swap meet recently. I am missing the other plastic connector for them. Can anyone tell me where they go? I don't see a place for them on the dash unless there are removable panels under the dash pad?
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | For to mount the snorkels, you need to change the dashboard with one from an AC car. Or, take proper measurements and cut the openings in your dash.
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Location: So. Cal | Thanks, I was afraid of that answer, but it makes sense. |
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Location: So. Cal | I finally separated the trunk pan that I bought from BigM from the frame. There are a lot of spot welds holding these things in place and it was too difficult to remove the frame in one piece so I cut it up first. Still wasn't very easy where the welds are hidden, but I managed to get it done. Now I need to weld the holes back in around the outside edges because it needs to be welded from the other side in the car. Also the center section needs to be replaced on this one so I will need to get that done first. My plan is to repair the downturns at the quarters first before I set this in place.
Looks like I will need a new fuel tank too. I see that on Ebay they are listed for '61-'62 only because the fuel inlet is shorter on them. Will those work well in a '60 without modification or do I need to extend that inlet on it first?
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Location: central Illinois | For the gas tank go to Classic Car Auto Parts. I've tried sharing the link before but it never works. I bought their tank and it's a great piece, even has the drain plug. |
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Location: So. Cal | Thanks for the tip, Greg, I'll check into them when I get to that point. The trunk pan has been stalled for 4 months now because I am having trouble getting someone to make good quality beads in sheet metal that will replicate the originals. I have to replace the center section on this trunk pan, so it waits while it try to get something done for it.   In the mean-time, I got the IBM card for the car. Does anyone know how to read the punch codes on these things? I looked up the dealer number online. Withnell Dodge 2650 Commercial SE, SALEM, OR 97302. It looks like they are still in business at the original location, and they started around 1960 so my car would have been one of the first to be sold there.
Edited by Powerflite 2019-02-07 10:45 PM
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Location: So. Cal | Does anyone have a template for cutting the A/C vent holes in the dash? I may be able to make up something close from this picture, but would prefer if someone had one made from the real thing.
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Thanks' for sharing the dealer and IBM-info, much apprecieated. I will decode the IBM-card for you, just give me some time….. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Here is the decoded IBM information, with many options;
Region 7 2 = Salem Oregon
Dealer Code 5 6 4 4 0 = Withnell Dodge
Dealer Order 6 2 7
Body Type 8 3 2 (8=Chrysler, 3=New Yorker, 2=2DHT)
Trim 3 0 5 (Turquoise vinyl and Congo fabric)
Paint 0 6 0 6 1 (Roof Alaskan White, body Alaskan White, regular 1 tone)
Power Equipment 3 = 293 6-way power seat, 8 = 298 Vacuum Door Locking system
Accessory Group 9 = 309 Custom Group New Yorker, 300F; Heater - Custom Conditionaire, Golden Touch-tune Radio, Rear Seat Speaker, Rear Window Defogger
Ix Lights - Mirrors – Luggage Rack 7 = 387 MirrorMatic
Solex glass 1 = 441 Solex Tinted Glass, All Windows
Swivel Seats – Shields and H.D. Springs 3 = 473 Automatic Swivel Seats
Tires 6 2 = 9.00X14 White Sidewall Rayon
New Car Service – Sold car 7 = no info
Export 8 = no info
Open except Plymouth 3 = no info
District code 6 = no info
Retro Bonus code 0 = no info
Model Year 8 = Chrysler
Car Line and Model 3 = New Yorker, 0 =1960
Plant Number 5 = Los Angeles
Sequence Code 1 0 2 0 0 0
Shipping Date 0 1 2 0 = January, 20th |
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| it always cool when the dealer is still around.
Hmm Congo fabric?
Can you get a dash from John(big M)?
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes Mike, the New Yorker fabric was named Congo, even though the pattern looks like snow flakes
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Location: So. Cal | Thanks for the info Sven! It's great to be able to translate the card info.
Mike, maybe John has a dash, but swapping it out would be a pain since I am not planning to restore the whole thing very soon. So the plan is to just pull the windshield and drill the holes so I can install the A/C stuff and replace the dash pad. I'm trying to limit how many cars I have torn apart at the same time.
Edited by Powerflite 2019-02-14 5:15 PM
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | No problems Nathan, happy to be able to help you out.
Just for your information, if you are going ahead and install the oem A/C, there's a lot more work than just the snorkels - you need also to modify the cowl and for to get access, the engine needs to be removed.
Arland here on the forum has gone through the oem A/C installation and all is documented in his thread - let's hope he sees this and kick in with some info.
To remove the dashboard isn't a difficult task, just a lot of work. If you have a good front window and rubber seal, it's best to remove the dashboard.
By the way, you have a 61' standard front window in your car - the 60' should have a compound front window for all models. In 61', the compound window was only used in convertibles. |
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Location: So. Cal | I am thinking of installing an aftermarket A/C system, depending on if I have anywhere to put the evaporator.....and the A/C vents are just really neat even if I don't have A/C.
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Location: So. Cal | I love the way the car looks with the wide whitewalls & Imperial caps. I can still only drive it around a little because I need to replace the trunk floor before I put a gas tank into it.....
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Location: DFW, TX | That is a terrific car man! Hurry up and put a trunk floor and tank in it so it can be used! |
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Location: So. Cal | I know, it's killing me that I can't seem to get it done. I haven't found anyone that can put decent sized beads into the sheetmetal yet. I need to replace the small flat section in my replacement panel, and I just can't find anyone with the right equipment to make it. I am very close to purchasing a bead roller for myself and shoving it into my tiny garage somewhere.... |
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | If you have some tools for wood work, then you could mill down the right profile in a thick oak plank and hammer out the beads - much work, but doable.
Heres the work of Jupe in FinLand http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?album...
A Pullmax would be the best for to make the beads. |
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Location: So. Cal | I'm lucky to have some of the tools & skills needed for doing metalwork. My woodwork capabilities are pretty embarrassing. But that link shows some nice work. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | wizard - 2019-02-14 7:59 AM
Yes Mike, the New Yorker fabric was named Congo, even though the pattern looks like snow flakes
That is a great document, what else is in it? |
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Location: California | sonaramic300 - 2017-10-24 9:45 PM
Yes the cables and extra springs give it away.
The automatic swiveling seat are super rare. How many has anyone ever seen?
It was discontinued early in 1960. That and the other options on the car make it pretty special.
I’m curious as to why they seats where discontinued so quickly? I’m assuming they were prone to failure? I’ve only ever seen one with functioning automatic swivels at MoPar spring fling many years ago. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | Suddenlyits1960! - 2020-08-22 7:03 PM
sonaramic300 - 2017-10-24 9:45 PM
Yes the cables and extra springs give it away.
The automatic swiveling seat are super rare. How many has anyone ever seen?
It was discontinued early in 1960. That and the other options on the car make it pretty special.
I’m curious as to why they seats where discontinued so quickly? I’m assuming they were prone to failure? I’ve only ever seen one with functioning automatic swivels at MoPar spring fling many years ago.
Could be that they were prone to failure, also most people probably didn't want to be forced to use them. I only swivel the seats in my 300F to show them off, they don't make it easier for me to get in and out of the car. They were really marketed toward women that wore those tight pencil skirts back then.
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Location: So. Cal | I heard that it was a safety concern. If a door came open during an accident, they didn't want to be liable for someone getting swiveled out of their seat. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | From the 1960 Chrysler Ross Roy book.
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Location: California | NicksGarage - 2020-08-23 9:17 PM
Suddenlyits1960! - 2020-08-22 7:03 PM
sonaramic300 - 2017-10-24 9:45 PM
Yes the cables and extra springs give it away.
The automatic swiveling seat are super rare. How many has anyone ever seen?
It was discontinued early in 1960. That and the other options on the car make it pretty special.
I’m curious as to why they seats where discontinued so quickly? I’m assuming they were prone to failure? I’ve only ever seen one with functioning automatic swivels at MoPar spring fling many years ago.
Could be that they were prone to failure, also most people probably didn't want to be forced to use them. I only swivel the seats in my 300F to show them off, they don't make it easier for me to get in and out of the car. They were really marketed toward women that wore those tight pencil skirts back then.
I’ve always felt the swivel seats were mostly a gimmick too. Still,I really admire the level of creativity and imagination put into developing all these automatic “world of tomorrow” Conveniences. Think of the time and money spent developing things like this and that futuristic ideas were taken seriously and not just dismissed in the name of saving a buck. |
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Location: northern germany | These things weren't just a gimmick. Old people really appreciated the swivel seats and pencil skirts were the fad during that time, so girls liked them too
I think in 1960 all the swivel seats were the automatic type. At least the press kit and sales literature does not mention manual swivel seats. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | 1960fury - 2020-08-24 12:31 PM
These things weren't just a gimmick. Old people really appreciated the swivel seats and pencil skirts were the fad during that time, so girls liked them too
I think in 1960 all the swivel seats were the automatic type. At least the press kit and sales literature does not mention manual swivel seats.
They started out automatic for 1960 models but seem to have dropped that feature early on. In fact, I don't even think any 300Fs were made with the automatic seats. The 300F was introduced in January of 1960 and the brochure and press kit do not mention the automatic part of swivel seats. The media materials probably were done in late 1959 so they already knew they weren't going to be in there.
Edited by NicksGarage 2020-08-24 4:02 PM
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Location: northern germany | IIRC the automatic swivels seats could be detached and then stayed in place when the door was opened and I'v seen a F with automatics, could be retrofitted ones of course. |
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Location: California | NicksGarage - 2020-08-24 4:00 PM
1960fury - 2020-08-24 12:31 PM
These things weren't just a gimmick. Old people really appreciated the swivel seats and pencil skirts were the fad during that time, so girls liked them too
I think in 1960 all the swivel seats were the automatic type. At least the press kit and sales literature does not mention manual swivel seats.
They started out automatic for 1960 models but seem to have dropped that feature early on. In fact, I don't even think any 300Fs were made with the automatic seats. The 300F was introduced in January of 1960 and the brochure and press kit do not mention the automatic part of swivel seats. The media materials probably were done in late 1959 so they already knew they weren't going to be in there.
So they started in 1959 with manual swivels,they they went automatic for the early 60’s,the back to manual for the rest of 1960,then dropped them in 1961? |
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Location: California | 1960fury - 2020-08-24 3:31 PM
These things weren't just a gimmick. Old people really appreciated the swivel seats and pencil skirts were the fad during that time, so girls liked them too
I think in 1960 all the swivel seats were the automatic type. At least the press kit and sales literature does not mention manual swivel seats.
I’ve never been lucky enough to have a car with them to test them out personally. I can see them being handy for the ladies back then,and for older folks. I know I have a couple ads from 1959 showing women getting in and out of the cars with swivel seats. I think it’s a neat feature |
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Location: California | I was searching old threads on the subject and found this post by a member named “sonoramic60”
“I have also been told that the automatic feature on the '60 models was retrofitted with manual controls after the wife of a Chrysler Corp. bigwig was ejected from her seat (or subjected to some undue embarassment or both) when the door on her side was suddenly opened by a doorman. I never did see one of the fully automatic models in real life, so I suppose if some slipped past recall and are still in existance, they are rare indeed.” |
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Location: So. Cal | It makes me wonder how rare this really is. For those interested, this is what the system looks like in more detail. The torsion bar consists of 6 different plates sandwiched together to create the torsion action. That tells me they needed the pull from 6x one plate and couldn't live with the reliability of only having one of them. At least it seems plausible. The cable for the seat is connected to the bottom side of the lower door hinge. I've drawn a green line between the broken links in the picture to point them out better. It would be cool to replace these cable so I can witness how it was supposed to work as it was originally designed.
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Location: Ramona, CA | I asked Ian when his Saratoga was built and it was the end of October 1959. Would be interesting to see what the latest car someone has that had the automatic ones. I would think since they were pushing the swivel seats so much that quite a few cars had them in the beginning.
I can also see the vacuum tubes for your power lock in that door. My '60 wagon has them and I'll be curious to see if I can get them to work. The door wires and hoses are cut off on my right front door for some reason. Another thing I want to test out is a feature unique to the 3-seat wagons with power locks. Supposedly when you lock the doors with the power locks, it disables the switch for the rear window in the headliner above it. It only disables the down motion, not the up motion. I guess to keep the kiddies from falling out the back.
Edited by NicksGarage 2020-08-25 12:02 AM
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Yes, my car built Oct 29,1959 had the automatic swivels. WHen I bought the car the cables were broken. I eventually pulled out the torsion bars, related brackets, and the return springs under the back of each seat and sold them to a guy who wanted them for a 1960 Phoenix convertible. I then refinished the front of the door jambs once those pieces were removed.
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Location: Ramona, CA | Was there some accommodation for someone opening the door with someone in the seat who didn't want to swivel? If not I could see the cables getting broken if someone opened the car against the will of the occupant to comply.
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | NicksGarage - 2020-08-24 9:11 PM
Was there some accommodation for someone opening the door with someone in the seat who didn't want to swivel? If not I could see the cables getting broken if someone opened the car against the will of the occupant to comply.
I'[m fairly sure you could keep it from swinging out but not positive how that was done.
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Location: California | “PowerFlite” thanks for sharing the photos of the torsion bar and hinge mechanism,interesting to see how they made it work
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Location: So. Cal | Sure, no problem. My car wasn't that early of a production. It was built on January 20th, 1960 in Los Angeles and sold in Salem, Oregon. So apparently they were at least available as an option through that time with code 473. It may not have been a popular option even when it was available. You have a good eye, Nick. Those vacuum tubes are indeed for the door locks. I've never bothered to try them out yet to see if they work. I guess I should at some point. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | Powerflite - 2020-08-24 10:19 PM
Sure, no problem. My car wasn't that early of a production. It was built on January 20th, 1960 in Los Angeles and sold in Salem, Oregon. So apparently they were at least available as an option through that time with code 473. It may not have been a popular option even when it was available. You have a good eye, Nick. Those vacuum tubes are indeed for the door locks. I've never bothered to try them out yet to see if they work. I guess I should at some point.
Thanks for posting your production date. That's past when 300Fs were introduced. I should have looked on the order form. I assumed that the automatic swiveling seats were the standard issue as that's how they were promoted but looking at the order form published in July 1959, they were listed separate from standard swivel seats. But not available on 300F.
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Location: northern germany | Powerflite - 2020-08-25 1:19 AM
Sure, no problem. My car wasn't that early of a production. It was built on January 20th, 1960 in Los Angeles and sold in Salem, Oregon. So apparently they were at least available as an option through that time with code 473. It may not have been a popular option even when it was available. You have a good eye, Nick. Those vacuum tubes are indeed for the door locks. I've never bothered to try them out yet to see if they work. I guess I should at some point.
Thanks for the pictures and for posting the build date, as this what I have guessed. I'm a "60 guy" for 40 years and I never heard about that
they switched to manual swivels in 60.
If I had one of these, nobody could stop me from fixing it up and making it work as it was supposed, as it's all mechanical ist wouldn't be a big deal.
As with most things, the lack of maintanance is what killed the system.
Funny, the only time I have seen these work correctly (NOT as shown on YT by their owners) was in a non car related clip on German TV at nighttime,
about 25 years ago, that featured scarcely dressed, undressing girls that I purely accidentally saw while switching thru the channels
Of course the featured FL Mopar (it was filmed in Europe) forced me to watch the whole show
Edited by 1960fury 2020-08-25 8:09 AM
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Location: California | Interesting.Any idea why these weren’t available as an option on the 300f? |
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Location: California | Here’s a video of a beautiful 1960 Fury with automatic swivel seats. I really love the color combo is this car. This would be the exact 1960 Fury I would choose if I saw it in the showroom. Only way it could be better is if it had factory air!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7GYiVOoPX4 |
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Location: California | Here’s a short video of a 1960 Imperial with functioning automatic swivel seats. They swing out automatically when you open the door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oniyM2aCO70 |
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Location: northern germany | Suddenlyits1960! - 2020-08-25 9:52 AM
Here’s a short video of a 1960 Imperial with functioning automatic swivel seats. They swing out automatically when you open the door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oniyM2aCO70
This is what i mean. That is not the way they are supposed to work. They should start the swivel action smoothly, simultaneously as soon as you open the door. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | Suddenlyits1960! - 2020-08-25 6:33 AM
Interesting.Any idea why these weren’t available as an option on the 300f?
It could have been because of the way the console mounts right where those cables are going. Plus the 300F has aluminum floor mat screwed to the floor on the driver side. The swivel seat frame is basically the same as other cars, it just passes through the console instead of having the center seat/armrest. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | 1960fury - 2020-08-25 7:29 AM
Suddenlyits1960! - 2020-08-25 9:52 AM
Here’s a short video of a 1960 Imperial with functioning automatic swivel seats. They swing out automatically when you open the door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oniyM2aCO70
This is what i mean. That is not the way they are supposed to work. They should start the swivel action smoothly, simultaneously as soon as you open the door.
In the Ross Roy page I posted earlier, it says they don't unlatch until the door is opened half way. It also does mention that the passenger can override the function by shifting their body to relatch the seat. |
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Location: northern germany | This is how I remember seeing it, at least it isn't supposed to suddenly jump out like that, but maybe I'm wrong and something in the vid I mentioned distracted me Yes, as I posted earlier, the swivel action can be turned off completely, but I didn't know how.
Edited by 1960fury 2020-08-25 4:27 PM
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| We have an elderly relative in a wheelchair and those swivel seat make it possible to take her for car rides. Makes the transfer very easy. She loves it! |
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Location: So. Cal | A big thank you goes out to Nick for pointing me to these hubcaps for sale on Ebay. I will swap the little spinners from my Imperial caps over to these and eliminate the Imperial name from my caps.
I still need 2 more, so if you see any more, let me know.
Edited by Powerflite 2020-11-25 2:12 PM
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Location: So. Cal | I managed to pick up 3 more of these Newport caps (I believe these were used on fleet cars that require 15" wheels) so I now have a full set for the car. Some of them have small dents that need to be worked out, but they're not bad.
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Location: Ramona, CA | What are you going to do with your Imperial caps? I've since bought a 1960 Imperial and a couple of mine are dinged up. I ended up putting 1959 Imperial wheel covers on my wagon.
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Location: Ramona, CA | Powerflite - 2017-10-23 9:06 PM
That's really pretty. Very tempting. I love the seat fabric in these cars too. I can't imagine having one with plain vinyl.
The vinyl interiors are very plain. That's what my wagon has and it looks like it's out of a taxi cab on an otherwise luxurious car. Same seats that they used in the Windsor with vinyl. At least the door panels are good looking. I can't afford to change over to the cloth interior. I assume the original owner ordered the vinyl over the cloth because he was carrying two kids cross country every summer. His previous car was a '54 Imperial, which had a lavish interior in cloth and leather. |
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Location: So. Cal | Yeah, kids don't mix well with delicate & expensive fabrics. I am going to remove the spinners on the caps and transfer them over to the Newport caps. Then I won't need the Imperial versions. However, I had to modify the mounts on the back in order to get them to work with the new style wheels so I am not sure if you would like them or not. My modifications are not reversible, and probably not compatible with original wheels. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | Powerflite - 2022-08-29 5:03 PM
Yeah, kids don't mix well with delicate & expensive fabrics. I am going to remove the spinners on the caps and transfer them over to the Newport caps. Then I won't need the Imperial versions. However, I had to modify the mounts on the back in order to get them to work with the new style wheels so I am not sure if you would like them or not. My modifications are not reversible, and probably not compatible with original wheels.
Oh ok. There are lots of them available on ebay and not too expensive. The plain ones seem to be few and far between.
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Location: So. Cal | Yeah, the plain covers are pretty rare. I figured out the part number for these Newport caps. It is 2260160 and was used on '62-'63 Newport & Dodge 880 Police, Taxi, Ambulance etc that required using a 15" wheel. Though some people have posted that this cover was available to police up to at least 1965, but I can't find it in the catalogs. It's odd that they didn't use them in 1960-'61.
Edited by Powerflite 2023-05-16 10:19 PM
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Oh, LA-built car data plate!!!
13 – 473 – Automatic Swivel Seats
39 – 309 – Custom Group
S8 – 308 – Power Door Locks
X3 – 303 – Power Seat 6-Way
Here the link where car has X3 code on the data plate and equipped with Power Seat only
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=37672&...
All the rest codes you know already…
Looks like the Mirrormatic 387 and Solex Glass 441 (!) are not stamp on the LA data plate
Torqueflite, PS, PB and Power Windows (!) are standard on the 1960 New Yorkers!
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