Posted 2018-11-13 3:47 AM (#573430 - in reply to #570828) Subject: RE: Secondary vin locations
I have been recently told that there is not a know secondary vin number? Is this true? I have to take a 61 ply on a trailer to be verified. I can see already some unknowing DMV person asking me for the second number location.!? The factory didn't do a very good job at attaching the primary number on these years! To avoid hours of wasted time and frustration,I'm asking again is there a second number stamp anywhere ?????
Posted 2018-11-13 1:28 PM (#573446 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: Under the X in Texas
Every vehicle, EVERY, has at least one alternate number location since it was mandated by the federal government in the 1920s. This is for law enforcement and insurance purposes when cars are stolen, dismantled, retitled, assembled from junk, etc. Locations vary. All locations are provided to law agencieds in Vehicle Identification Manuals published by the NICB. National Insurance Crime Bureau. They sell a CD that includes their books from 1937-2011 for $100 at their web site. More than just VINs are in the books. The '37 book on the CD includes about every car back through 1932.
Posted 2018-11-13 2:44 PM (#573454 - in reply to #573446) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: Pau, S-W France
StillOutThere - 2018-11-13 7:28 PM
All locations are provided to law agencieds in Vehicle Identification Manuals published by the NICB. National Insurance Crime Bureau. They sell a CD that includes their books from 1937-2011 for $100 at their web site. More than just VINs are in the books. The '37 book on the CD includes about every car back through 1932.
Very interesting information, thanks ! The CD is expensive but maybe for a club or a professional seller it's worth it.
Posted 2018-11-13 2:44 PM (#573455 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: So. California
But... those numbers aren't necessarily the VIN. I know that on my '67 Barracuda, that the other numbers located on the radiator support and trunk lip are the order number. This number can't be traced back to the VIN without the broadcast sheet. The number stamped on Forwardlook frames is usually the motor number. Long story short, it's a waste of time to go looking for it. In California, the second VIN isn't required by the DMV if it is a 1969 model year or older. I got sent through a run-around by one clueless DMV person when I tried to register my '58 Coronet. In the end, I got it registered because the second VIN verification wasn't required.
Posted 2018-11-13 4:54 PM (#573465 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: Under the X in Texas
The CA DMV, as a CA Hwy Patrol once told me, is "GROSSLY INCOMPETENT". Don't like the answer you just got at the window? Get back in line and go to a different window. CA's rule book is insanely complicated and none of their employees underestand it because there are at least three different "correct" answers to any question you want to ask.
Posted 2018-11-20 5:40 AM (#573832 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: Vancouver, BC
Yes, the second numbers stamped on the unibody cars prior to 1968 was the Shipping Order Number, which had the Scheduled Build Date and the daily sequence number for that car. The SON was stamped onto the body of the car (firewall for pre-C models, radiator support for the A body) preceded by the assembly plant and model year. The post-1968 VINs were stamped a plate attached to the instrument panel, as well as a choice of radiator support, firewall, rear parcel shelf (right side - can be viewed with mirror underneath) and left edge of trunk opening. Locations changed over the year, and my 1988 Plymouth has both stamped into sheet metal VINs as well as stick on tags with the VIN and a bar code. VIN was also stamped on the engine and transmission starting in 1968.
I've got back issues of NADA Used Car Guide, Blue Book and Red Book back into the 1920's as well as Branham Automobile Reference back to 1913-1914. They list serial numbers, engine numbers, body styles, prices, weights. The pre-1940 cars listed where the engine and serial numbers were stamped on the frame, but after that most makes just have the serial number location (door jamb) prior to 1968.
Also have the final edition of the Chrysler Corp's "Model Chart and Serial Number Guide", final edition, 1957. It includes Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler passenger cars plus Dodge, Fargo and DeSoto Trucks going back to the first year for each, with American and Canadian numbers. Not included is the 1928-1931 Fargo Truck, which was designed and put into production before Chrysler purchased Dodge Brothers. But I do have the serial numbers as published in the manuals I listed above. Also, have the Graham Brothers Truck serial numbers which Chrysler published in the MC and SNG as Dodge Truck.
Posted 2018-11-20 12:07 PM (#573852 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
you'd think the manufacturers would just stamp a number on the block, the body and the frame... all in one... the engine might have been more of an issue to stamp but the frame matching the vin would have been easy...
Posted 2018-11-20 1:30 PM (#573855 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: Vancouver, BC
That's what manufacturers did, initially. Ford Motor Company was the last company to do that, which was easy for them as Ford, Mercury and Lincoln came only in one size (body and frame) each, with a choice of one engine. With multiple series, sizes and engines things became more complex, and manufacturers stamped the engine number on the engine, and the cars' serial number on the door jamb. Numbers on chassis disappeared - cost too much, I suspect, and more difficult to keep track of.
It took the federal government getting involved in the mid-1960's that resulted in the partial VIN being stamped on the engine, chassis and numerous places on the body. The engine number was stamped only the engine as a means to determine the engine specs for parts, repairs, warranty work, etc.
Posted 2018-12-16 12:30 PM (#575329 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
California is probably the major problem. If it doesn't have emissions control then they most likely don't want in their atmosphere. Like the Lil Red express trucks when they came out it was illegal to own in California. I found another VIN location in my '60 Fury it is on the inside firewall, below the windshield behind the glove box where the heater connections would be. My '56 Imperial has the vin all over it.
Posted 2018-12-16 4:36 PM (#575344 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: Northen Virginia
These are the only numbers I found on my 61 Chrysler firewall. they have no exact relation with any other numbers that i can see in the title. Except the 092793 digits on the ID plate but missing the 99. in Blue the A pillar numbers and red the VIN numbers.
Posted 2019-09-06 12:18 PM (#587153 - in reply to #586923) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
22mafeja - 2019-09-02 7:45 AM
firedome 58 secondary vin location. Is engine number related as far as I understand.
Hard to read but probably L320400 .
Do you have a photo further out of this? I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly where this is on the frame. We have a few '58's and '59's I'd like to look for this on and they won't be as crisp as this car is.
Posted 2019-09-06 1:14 PM (#587157 - in reply to #570828) Subject: RE: Secondary vin locations
If you look at the first picture you can see the right side frame beam and torsion bar anchor point.
In my case the number is forward from the anchir point about 8 inches. On the picture it is framed with yellow paint.
It was hard to find.
Posted 2019-09-07 7:49 AM (#587200 - in reply to #587186) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Here is a zoomed out picture of the frame. I wonder what the number was punched with because it is not punched by hand and with great force .
You can see the yellow post-it sticker on the frame. That`s where the number is.
Posted 2019-09-08 6:48 PM (#587272 - in reply to #587200) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: Wild Wonderful
Since I have the body off of my frame, of the 1958 Firedome, I figured I would look for the number.
Sure enough, it was there. I could not see it at first, but then I took a wire brush to it.
Mine says -LS35508--
And that IS my engine number.
Thanks for showing me this... I would have just painted right over it without seeing it.
Is there anything else I should look for?
Posted 2019-09-09 3:12 AM (#587287 - in reply to #587272) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Thanks for that info , your number is better than mine . I can now assume that my sec. vin number is LS20400 , not L320400.
I can see it is exactly at the same spot as mine , interesting. I also see it it punched with the same tool because there are some marks from the tool on both sides of the number.
Posted 2020-02-24 1:15 AM (#594744 - in reply to #570828) Subject: RE: Secondary vin locations
Location: So. California
This is the frame number from my '57 New Yorker. The motor number is NE57 1976, but as far as I can read, the frame says: E57 25976. I can understand that it was likely not stamped hard enough for the N at the beginning to show up. But it's weird that the motor number doesn't match, yet it matches in the last 3 digits. And I don't think they made 26K 392 hemi motors in '57, did they? Should I assume that this frame number matches the motor number? If so, what was the purpose of substituting the 25 there for the 1 digit? Or is it the wrong motor and the last three digit correspondence is just pure coincidence?
Posted 2020-02-24 4:38 PM (#594767 - in reply to #570828) Subject: Re: Secondary vin locations
Location: PL / EU
LA 59 Plymouth number on the frame was punched in two places. Just like the picture.
This is a SON number separated by the letter M. According to this scheme LP 1111M1111.
M indicates 1959 model year, but L is a 1958 sign. This is early production car, maybe that's why