Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths
56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-25 3:59 PM (#593387)
Subject: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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I love my 56 Dodge D500 Custom Royal 4dr sedan and have gathered lots of (but not all) available information about the 56 D500 cars. Two "myths" that come up again and again in various magazine articles about the 56 D500 are that 1) all the D500 cars got "Imperial Brakes" and 2) it was D500s that were used by the AAA to set 306 endurance and speed records over a 14 day period out on the Bonneville salt flats in the fall of 1955. Both of these "myths" are wrong.

I think that I might have killed, or at least wounded, the "Imperial Brakes" myth in a post that I did a week or so ago wherein I use the parts manuals from the day (55-58 and 56) to "prove" (seriously imply) that there might have been Imperial brakes on D500 cars but, if any thing, those would have been D500s built to race, e.g. NASCAR, not for the street cars. The non-NASCAR race D500 cars got the 12" x 2.5" Chrysler center plane brakes and drums and wider wheels but they were on 4.5" bolt circle hubs and therefore were not Imperial which used 5.5" bolt circle hubs and wheels. I hope that is clear.

REFERENCE (the complete 56 D500 brake post): http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73076&...

The second myth should have been easier to kill but I saw it again in a recent D500 magazine article. The D500 was *NOT* the engine used in the September 10-24th, 1955 AAA record run. The engine in the record breaking 56 Dodge Custom Royal Sedans was the 230 hp 4bbl dual exhaust "Power Pack" Super Powered-Super Red Ram 315 cu in polyspherical engine. This clear in both magazine articles and advertising from late 1955 and early 1956 (which I have previously posted and repeat again below). The cincher is the casting dates of the first run of D500 engines, i.e. November 22, 1955 for D500-1003. Hard to be in a car in September, 1955 when you weren't even cast until November 1955.

One page from the Feb 56 issue of Motorsport Magazine (establishes the September 1955 date(s) of the endurance run):



An advert from the Feb 56 issue of Motorsport Magazine that states that the engine was the 230 hp (the 315 4 bbl poly):



REFERENCE (for the above two pages): http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67189&...

The more recent compilation of 56 D500 engine numbers with available casting dates and/or build dates including Nov. 22, 1955 for engine no. D500-1003



REFERENCE for the D500 engine number table: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=71896&...

So I *THINK* that I killed both "myths".

HA.

Yesterday, I was poking around looking for something and I found the source of the second myth: Dodge's advertising department and this July 1956 advert which, while it doesn't actually say that the D500 was the endurance record car, it doesn't say that it was the 230 hp poly either (ambiguity will get us all killed someday). Be that as it may, it wasn't the D500 that set those records :










Edited by 56D500boy 2020-01-25 6:45 PM




(56DodgeDynamiteAdvert.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2020-01-25 10:19 PM (#593396 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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I hate to piss on your parade, but as correct as you might be, there is an endless
supply of stupid and lazy people in this world to perpetuate any information out there.

Try this experiment .... start telling a story (that is absurdly wrong) about D500's
and just watch it become "fact", ... a fire you start, but that will forever be part of
the stories floating around out there.

Keep up the fight, but know what you are up against. Hehehehe !
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2020-01-26 1:06 PM (#593411 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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LOL! What Doc says it totally correct, even though you are correct too!

When I show people my cars, or chat about them at events...the stories I hear! " Oh, yeah, my Uncle's cousin twice removed owned a ____ with a hemi ____ " I have learned to control rolling my eyes, otherwise they would be in the back of my head permanently by now.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-26 1:30 PM (#593414 - in reply to #593396)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Doctor DeSoto - 2020-01-25 7:19 PM Try this experiment .... start telling a story (that is absurdly wrong) about D500's
and just watch it become "fact", ... a fire you start, but that will forever be part of
the stories floating around out there.


I won't do that. I've already bumped into lots stuff that I have posted when I am looking for something 56 Dodge-related using Google. Kind of scary to see your posts "quoted" in a different context.



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2020-01-26 4:57 PM (#593421 - in reply to #593414)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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"Citing reliable sources, the 1956 Dodge D503 was offered as a race
package to both drag and oval track racers, starting in March of 1956.
Pete Bonerbreath was in charge of marketing and development of the
highly secretive program. Archive research has shown the D503 package
included a very warmed up Chrysler 354 Hemi as a starting point, with
special suspension for high speed cornering and triple-wall tires specially
developed by Goodrich to handle the side stresses at speed. Braking was
done with the then-unheard of four wheel disc brakes, designed and supplied
by Kelsey-Hayes just for the project. 19 cars were ordered and delivered
in six body styles before the 1957 program ended the project."

How's that ?
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2020-01-26 5:31 PM (#593423 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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HAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-26 6:22 PM (#593424 - in reply to #593421)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Too late Doc, that mythical horse has already left the barn. Actually 365 of them in this 354 2 x 4 bbl powered "rare" 56 D500.

The car is being advertised for sale on ClassicCars.com by a private seller in Clay, New York. The seller says:

“I was told by the previous owner the engine is original,” the seller says in that advertisement. “It carries the 354 cu. in. engine which is rare in the 1956, originally it was a push button automatic, now a 4-speed manual, 2×4 bbl carb, tachometer, tinted glass, custom wheels, custom air cleaner, chrome valve covers.”

The seller adds that the original orange valve covers remain available for an engine that was an option for Chrysler’s 300B muscle car.

REFERENCE: https://journal.classiccars.com/2019/08/08/this-1956-dodge-is-a-trib...





Edited by 56D500boy 2020-01-27 8:44 AM
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DEH
Posted 2020-01-26 9:21 PM (#593443 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Dave, after you get done with the 1956 D-500 myths, will you be ready to tackle the 1957 D-500 myths? For example, "The Illustrated Directory of Muscle Cars" (2013) states that the 1957 Dodge D-500 option was the 354 Hemi (which was actually the D-501). There is a starting point for you!

Don H.
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22mafeja
Posted 2020-01-27 3:28 AM (#593446 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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Dave , the pearl of truth is a underestimated jewel ..
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-28 3:40 PM (#593523 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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A couple of more pounds on the AAA record stake, thanks to Gary R.

Salt Lake City News Bulletin regarding the 306 AAA records



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-01-28 3:44 PM




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56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-29 4:40 PM (#593570 - in reply to #593523)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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I think I found the source of at least one of the myths, the D500 at Bonneville in Sept 1955: Allpar in their D500 section.

WHAAATT??? I imagined that Allpar was the source of the truth not myths.

Anybody know how to get Allpar to correct an error?



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-01-29 6:05 PM




(AllparsErrorRED500AndAAARecords.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-03 3:59 PM (#593772 - in reply to #593570)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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56D500boy - 2020-01-29 1:40 PM
I think I found the source of at least one of the myths, the D500 at Bonneville in Sept 1955: Allpar in their D500 section.
WHAAATT??? I imagined that Allpar was the source of the truth not myths.

Anybody know how to get Allpar to correct an error?


Finally found the last big hammer and stake to kill the D500 Bonneville myth: A D500 advert from probably March or April 1956. Now I really want to take Allpar to task.

This:



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-02-03 4:01 PM




(D500 - most powerful Dodge ever built 1_corrected_small.jpg)



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wizard
Posted 2020-02-03 4:16 PM (#593773 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Allpar has many errors on their site, but I don't know how to contact the guys behind.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-02-03 4:42 PM (#593774 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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It used to be really easy to contact them about content. I used to submit corrections all the time and they would even mention me in the article as the provider of the correction.

For instance on this page, https://www.allpar.com/corporate/factories.html, they had a statement asking why the Belvedere car name was spelled differently than the town of Belvidere. I let them know that the Plymouth names were actually named after hotels. Savoy, Plaza, Belvedere. They listed me in the credits of the page and made the correction.


Here is their contact form now. Be sure to provide the address of the page you're talking about, much easier for them to know what you're talking about.

https://www.allpar.com/forums/misc/contact



Edited by NicksGarage 2020-02-03 4:47 PM
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CaprockClassics
Posted 2020-02-03 7:45 PM (#593780 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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When I was first going to car shows with my dad (Pre-internet), we heard a story from an old timer that back in the day there was a fire at the Dodge plant and they lost all the build records on the 1956-61 Dodges, so there was no way to document D500 cars or special orders. Needless to say, about 10yrs ago, I began doing my own research and quickly proved this myth false, but all it took back in the day was the word of a self proclaimed "expert" at a car show.

~Peter
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-03 8:16 PM (#593783 - in reply to #593774)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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NicksGarage - 2020-02-03 1:42 PM
Here is their contact form now. Be sure to provide the address of the page you're talking about, much easier for them to know what you're talking about.
https://www.allpar.com/forums/misc/contact


Thanks Nick. I just used that link to contact them, flagging the html of the page in question and the specific text. Now I just have to wait to see if they are interested in correcting their error.

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Dash One
Posted 2020-02-03 10:52 PM (#593785 - in reply to #593783)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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There were D500-1 cars built with Imperial brakes and other Imperial parts.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-03 11:05 PM (#593786 - in reply to #593785)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Dash One - 2020-02-03 7:52 PM
There were D500-1 cars built with Imperial brakes and other Imperial parts.


Tim: I've been trying to get a hold of you for weeks now. Check you email and messages here.

I agree that the race-oriented 56 Dodge D500s (some of which were like yours a D500-1 with 2 x 4bbls, and others that just got the D500-1 chassis but only a single 4 bbl) probably got the Imperial brakes, hubs and knuckles, etc. However, the civilian D500s probably only got the 12 x 2.5" on 4.5" bolt circle Chrysler Windsor, etc. brakes.

I think I did a good job of showing that in this thread:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73076&...

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Dash One
Posted 2020-02-03 11:23 PM (#593787 - in reply to #593786)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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Hi Dave yeah I'm sorry it's been a while since I've posted or looked at the website.... but I'm still out there
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Dash One
Posted 2020-02-05 11:29 AM (#593836 - in reply to #593787)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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Dave I'd like to share some facts I have uncovered while researching D500 cars
One myth that sometimes gets repeated as fact :that all two four-barrel engines were dealer installed components ie...the parts were "in the trunk". To totally put this notion to rest I was able to get a interview on DVD with NASCAR racer Bernie Hengtes who was recruited by Dodge to drive a D500 - 1 he states that he traded his regular D500 for a factory prepared two four-barrel D500 - 1, toured the assembly line, and drove it home from Detroit to Minnesota. While many cars were retrofitted because of the late introduction of these parts I have been able to verify other examples including mine, this along with other research I have compiled supports that there were ultimately several cars that were two four-barrel prepared and delivered. My build record includes the code for factory drive away and another D500-1 in Missouri states it was delivered by rail. Furthermore I have a picture of Lee Petty receiving a D500-1 at the factory, the photo shows him in front of the open hood and the large two four Barrel air cleaner is clear to see. The bottom line is although rare and Very Expensive after March 9th 1956 a two four-barrel D500 - 1 version was available to anyone.
With NASCAR and other organized racing forms becoming important to manufacturers Dodge took advantage of rules that allowed new parts to be introduced to the public and after a waiting period being allowed on race cars. This led to many late options that are hard to verify their existence and confirm that they actually made it to production. A few examples that I have verified are, the complete 276 horsepower engine assembly, the large two and a half inch exhaust system ( the manifolds which unlike the Chrysler versions we're not used on trucks), the large 8 inch wide wheels, and the taxi export manual transmission. I have the parts list for the D500 - 1 released by Dodge late in 55 and several update versions as more options became available through model year, these part lists were acquired by Dennis Kennedy from Danny Eames himself the Dodge test driver who developed many of these options. I am quite grateful to Dennis Kennedy for sharing all his research and documents pertaining to the D500. There is quite a bit there to go through and it's quite exhausting so it's hard to share in its whole scope, but I can help with most questions regarding the D500 for 1956. Feel free to contact me if you would like more information. Thanks Tim
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-05 5:15 PM (#593853 - in reply to #593836)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Tim: Great info. Thanks very much.

I am planning a D500-1 write-up (mostly about the parts that were used) so that is great info. I will need you to comment on what I post either after or perhaps better if I run it by you first.

In the very short term, I emailed you last night with some D500 questions.

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GregCon
Posted 2020-02-05 7:41 PM (#593859 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Indeed. Just today I was walking past a schoolyard and saw a group of kids had taken sides and were having a very heated argument over the 1956 D-500's use of Imperial brakes. Both sides were fierce in their stance. I fear this issue will never be laid to rest. lol
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2020-02-09 1:14 AM (#593971 - in reply to #593859)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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They seemed to be pretty worked up over making couches out of them too.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-09 2:32 AM (#593972 - in reply to #593971)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Doctor DeSoto - 2020-02-08 10:14 PM
They seemed to be pretty worked up over making couches out of them too.


I think this D500 Custom Royal sedan must have the Imperial brakes because it was a cop car after all.



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-02-09 2:34 AM




(56DodgeCRD500Furniture.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-02-09 12:57 PM (#593979 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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Pick your battles wisely someone said? If Jay Leno does a 56 D500 all your work will be destroyed utterly in 5 minutes...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2020-02-09 11:56 PM (#593997 - in reply to #593979)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Unless, of course, you get an invite to be on Jay's show as the resident expert,
where you DRIVE that stake into the heart of these dastardly myths once and for
all !!!!
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-12 2:36 PM (#601968 - in reply to #593783)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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56D500boy - 2020-02-03 5:16 PM
NicksGarage - 2020-02-03 1:42 PM
Here is their contact form now. Be sure to provide the address of the page you're talking about, much easier for them to know what you're talking about.
https://www.allpar.com/forums/misc/contact

Thanks Nick. I just used that link to contact them, flagging the html of the page in question and the specific text. Now I just have to wait to see if they are interested in correcting their error.
:)


Allpar didn't contact me back then (February) so I just flagged the issue to them again today suggesting that I have proof of their error. I just bought an original of the Salt Lake press release so I will have actual hard copy in my possession.

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chryslerman101
Posted 2020-08-22 8:35 PM (#602420 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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56D500boy
 Posted 2020-01-29 4:40 PM (#593570 - in reply to #593523
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths
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I think I found the source of at least one of the myths, the D500 at Bonneville in Sept 1955: Allpar in their D500 section. 

WHAAATT??? I imagined that Allpar was the source of the truth not myths

Hello 56D500boy,

Before you decide to "pound a stake in the heart" of the reputable Allpar website, you are incorrect by saying that the source of the one of your two supposed Dodge myths had originally came out of the informative Allpar website. In fact, the Allpar's author uses the information that you have highlighted in red, which it originally was from the August 1956 Sports Cars Illustrated magazine issue and the author also referenced this particular magazine source at the bottom of his Allpar article's page. 

Sports Cars Illustrated was published by the Ziff-Davis company from 1955-61 and it was renamed Car and Driver magazine, which is one of the largest and most reputable automotive magazine publications (over 1 million+ circulation).

Below is what is stated in this August 1956 issue, which you had also downloaded this particular magazine issue on your Dodge D500 scans thread ...

"The flags were earned. What the D500 is kissin' cousin to is the only-slightly-hotter D500-1 which knocked over 306 AAA records on the Bonneville Salt last fall." - page 49

 

 

 





(SportsCarIllustratedAug56D500Cov.JPG)



(SportsCarIllustratedAug56D500_49.JPG)



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-22 11:35 PM (#602430 - in reply to #602420)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Scott:

Sports Cars Illustrated had it wrong in the August 1956 issue. The 306 records were broken in September 1955 by a 230 hp 4 bbl 315 polyspherical engine-powered Custom Royal sedan. The D500 was not announced until December of 1955 and the D500-1 option was not available until February 1956.

"Reputable" or not, they got it wrong.







Edited by 56D500boy 2020-08-23 2:22 AM
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chryslerman101
Posted 2020-08-23 1:20 PM (#602437 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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Hello 56D500boy,

            I have found two additional Dodge advertisements, which one says that its 1956 Red Ram engine (please don't laugh) was one one that broke the AAA records at the fall 1955 Bonneville speedway in Utah and the other one states or at least implies that its D-500 engine had broken the AAA records in the fall of 1955.

So, my question for you ... Is Dodge lying or misrepresenting itself and are they one true original source of the myths or mistruths and not Allpar website or August 1956 Sports Cars Illustrated magazine (which is now Car and Driver) ?

 





(The Spokesman Review Sun Dec 11 1955- page 3_.jpg)



(56DodgeDynamite_BaltimoreEveningSunJuly10_1956_3.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-23 1:59 PM (#602439 - in reply to #602437)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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chryslerman101 - 2020-08-23 10:20 AM
I have found two additional Dodge advertisements, which one says that its 1956 Red Ram engine (please don't laugh) was one one that broke the AAA records at the fall 1955 Bonneville speedway in Utah and the other one states or at least implies) that its D-500 engine had broken the AAA records in the fall of 1955. So, my question for you ...Is Dodge lying or misrepresenting itself and are they one true source of the myths or mistruths and not Allpar website or August 1956Sports Cars Illustrated magazine (which is now Car and Driver)


Oh man. If you think that advertising copy writers were/are always 100% accurate and were never ever creatively vague to help sell the product in question, then you are very naive.

The first example with just "Red Ram" is obviously a misrepresentation of the facts, either on purpose or due to incompetence/laziness.

The second example is very creatively vague. (Full advert below)

I have previously stated in this thread:

"Yesterday, I was poking around looking for something and I found the source of the second myth: Dodge's advertising department and this July 1956 advert which, while it doesn't actually say that the D500 was the endurance record car, it doesn't say that it was the 230 hp poly either (ambiguity will get us all killed someday). Be that as it may, it wasn't the D500 that set those records"

If you think that "journalists" at Allpar, Hemmings or Sports Cars Illustrated should be let off the hook because they didn't do their own due dilegence and believed Dodge's advertising people and perpetuated myths or just re-iterated what the advertisements said as the "gospel" truth, then again you are very naive. Sorry.

Is this add only about the D500 or is it just about the 1956 Dodges with a bit of D500 thrown in? I don't know. It probably lead to the D500 Bonneville record myth which is unfortunate. What I do know is the Bonneville records were set in September 1955 and the first D500 engines, e.g. D500-1003 (the first one was D500-1001), were cast in late November, 1955. Makes it kind of difficult to set records when the engine doesn't even exist yet.

Just sayin'








Edited by 56D500boy 2020-08-23 7:29 PM
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chryslerman101
Posted 2020-08-23 3:45 PM (#602440 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths


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Hello 56D500boy,

                       What is the conclusion of one of your myths ... Did all the 1956 Dodge D500 cars get the Imperial or Chrysler 12" center plane brakes or not ?

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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-24 11:26 AM (#602471 - in reply to #602440)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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chryslerman101 - 2020-08-23 12:45 PM  What is the conclusion of one of your myths ...
Did all the 1956 Dodge D500 cars get the Imperial or Chrysler 12" center plane brakes or not?


Definitely NOT "my" myth. I was trying to kill it (the myth that all D500s got Imperial brakes).

I think the bottom line is that some D500 cars got Imperial brakes but most did not.

Based on what I have learned while investigating the myth, probably only the cars that were ordered with the intent of going circle track racing (NASCAR and Grand National, paved and dirt) got the Imperial brakes with 5 x 5.5" bolt circle hubs, drums and wheels. This would have included some of the first D500s with the single 4 bbl carb and for sure the cars with the D500-1 (the dual four barrel version of the D500) engine. One exception is Tim Dupont's D500-1 car that was special ordered but never raced on a track but it does have the Imperial brakes, etc.

Otherwise, the normal D500 cars simply got 12 x 2.5" wide Chrysler brakes (with the 5 x 4.5" bolt circle hubs, drums and wheels).

The only niggle that I am not sure about was after March 9, 1956 when they announced that the D500 engine could be ordered in *any* of the 56 Dodges (all body styles and all three model lines). At the same time, the suspension was downgraded back to normal 56 Dodge standards (instead of the heavier spring and sway bar versions that the late Dec. 55 to March 9th D500s got. *BUT* I am only 99% sure that the brakes stayed as the 12" Chrysler center-plane brakes and not back to the normal 11" 56 Dodge brakes. My May 15th built D500 Custom Royal 4 dr sedan has the 12" Chrysler brakes. I have not seen any non-race 56 D500s with 11" brakes but I am still not 100% sure. I continue to look for a copy of the March 9/56 memo.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=69559&...



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-08-24 12:43 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-10-05 2:47 AM (#603996 - in reply to #602471)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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UPDATES:

1. I did finally find the March 9th, 1956 Memo about the D500 Specials. They got the normal softer suspension but they still got the 12" Chrysler brakes unless the orderer specifically declined them (which would be as stupid as hell given the power of the engine and speeds that it could attain).

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=74604&...

2. I found a Dodge Division video at MyMopar.com that was a training slide show with a record (now converted to a Youtube video) that talks about the 230 hp Super Powered Super Red Ram (poly) engine as the engine that was used in the car that set the Bonneville records and how that engine was available in the Coronets (the subject of the slide show) as an option (as well as the Royals and Custom Royals).

This:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roTS0BueBl4

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=74600&...



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-10-19 1:56 PM (#604638 - in reply to #603996)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Another stake in the "D500 Bonneville record setting" myth. This one from the Charlotte Observer, Sept. 29, 1955. Remember - the first D500 engines weren't even cast until mid-November, 1955.

This would be based on the information in the Salt Lake News bulletin documented here:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=74600&...



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-10-19 8:40 PM




(The_Charlotte_Observer_Thu__Sep_29__1955_-1_small.jpg)



(The_Charlotte_Observer_Thu__Sep_29__1955_-1_BonnevilleRecords_small.jpg)



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Attachments The_Charlotte_Observer_Thu__Sep_29__1955_-1_small.jpg (258KB - 253 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-10-28 2:38 PM (#604992 - in reply to #604638)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Wow. Just found an article at Allpar by Curtis Redgap who (almost) got it right:

"There was also a 315 cubic inch Polysphere engine with 230 horsepower, with a four barrel carburetor and dual exhausts; it powered cars that won numerous land speed records at Bonneville. Dodge broke, reset and made, all told, 196 records at the Bonneville salt flats with the 1956 Dodge. This engine went 14 days at 92.86 miles an hour for a distance of 31,224 miles! It was, however, not the vaulted Hemi, but the poly that was used. MoPar fans take pause. 315 cubic inches? 230 horsepower? It was not the famous 318, but a different block"

It was actually 306 records, not just the 196 from Sept. 1953 (with the 1954 Dodge Royal double-rocker ("hemi") V8) but hey, at least he got the poly part correct for the Sept. 1955 record run.

REFERENCE: https://www.allpar.com/history/inside/plymouth-3.html



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-10-28 3:32 PM




(1954DodgeRoyalRecordSetter_Small.jpg)



(The_Cincinnati_Enquirer_Tue__Dec_15__1953_1954Dodge_196Records.jpg)



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horace
Posted 2020-12-04 7:31 PM (#606372 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Back in 56 my dad was a Dodge dealer, me I was pre-teen. There was a Dodge D-500 touring Dodge dealerships for promotion, the car was garnet!! , maybe black, maybe white or lavender as well with a stick trans. It was @ our county fair promoting the laurels of Dodge. Dad told me it had been used @ a test track. NO MYTH
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-12-04 8:41 PM (#606375 - in reply to #606372)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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horace - 2020-12-04 4:31 PM
Back in 56 my dad was a Dodge dealer, me I was pre-teen. There was a Dodge D-500 touring Dodge dealerships for promotion, the car was garnet!! , maybe black, maybe white or lavender as well with a stick trans. It was @ our county fair promoting the laurels of Dodge. Dad told me it had been used @ a test track. NO MYTH


Good story.

Garnet is a great colour on a 56 Dodge of any model, D500 or not (see below). Any chance that your dad took photos of that demo D500 and that you have them? If so, it would be great to see them.

The "official" (suggested) colour combo of the very first release of the 56 D500s was Sapphire White roof and lower and Oriental Rose "saddle". See below photos from the Feb 1956 Detroit Auto show.

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=72327







Edited by 56D500boy 2020-12-04 9:09 PM




(56CRL4drHdTopWhiteBlackAndGarnet_2.jpg)



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horace
Posted 2020-12-05 12:59 PM (#606412 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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No pics. There was a man in our town who bought a white oriental rose white Royal D500 sedan drove it for a while, then his sons drag raced it a lot. They eventually lowered it & louvered the hood, there were pics of that car but I don't have them. This same family bought a used 57 red/white D501 stick repainted it black. The car was problematic because the 3sp just didn't hold up but fast. They later had my favorite Chev, a repainted black 59 El Camino with a repurposed 413 Chrysler & pushbutton. The pickup they had was a 57 D200 Dodge 315 V-8 with column 3spd. In a drag race it won 3 of 3 races vs a 57 Olds J2, performance model w 3-2s, yes, this windy story I reverified a few years ago w/ a Chevy guy. Racing & dancing in a summer resort town
My Uncle Lawrence & my dad were young guys early 50s so performance was still in their blood. I remember the 56 oriental Royal, a golden rod Royal 2dr, a station wagon which, maybe a gray Cust Roy 4dr, a black, lilac & white 2dr hdtp were all D500s, maybe there were more all in a 5000 pop town.
Wow, what a car show!!
1956 the year of color, not matched again until 1970

Edited by horace 2020-12-05 1:14 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-03-23 3:33 PM (#620423 - in reply to #602430)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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It looks like Lee Petty switched from a Chrysler C-300 to a '55 Dodge on July 31, 1955 at Bay Meadows Speedway in San Mateo, CA. I assume this '55 Dodge would have the single 4bbl 270 hemi motor, correct? It seems pretty late in the year to switch to Dodge, but does anyone know at what point he swapped it out for the '56 D500-1 car? He crashed his '55 Dodge on October 15, 1955, and went on to race a Dodge in the October 16 race. I guess he had 2 '55 Dodges? Or was this the '56 with a poly motor in it, and he swapped it out for the D500-1 when it became available?

Edited by Powerflite 2022-03-23 3:40 PM




(Lee Petty 55 Dodge Crash-s.jpg)



(LeePettyDodgeCoronet.jpg)



(Lee Petty D500-1s Engine.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2022-03-23 5:17 PM (#620426 - in reply to #620423)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Powerflite - 2022-03-23 12:33 PM It looks like Lee Petty switched from a Chrysler C-300 to a '55 Dodge on July 31, 1955 at Bay Meadows Speedway in San Mateo, CA. I assume this '55 Dodge would have the single 4bbl 270 hemi motor, correct? It seems pretty late in the year to switch to Dodge, but does anyone know at what point he swapped it out for the '56 D500-1 car? He crashed his '55 Dodge on October 15, 1955, and went on to race a Dodge in the October 16 race. I guess he had 2 '55 Dodges? Or was this the '56 with a poly motor in it, and he swapped it out for the D500-1 when it became available?


I "know" two things:

1. Lee Petty won 6 races in the 1955 NASCAR season. 5 of those were in Chryslers. 1 was in a 55 Dodge. He did finish that San Mateo race in 6th.

2. I have an image of a Dec. 13, 1955 memo from the Dodge Engineering Dept. to Mr. E.F. Shaw indicating that Mr. Lee Petty was to receive a 1956 Dodge Coronet 2 dr sedan (812) D500 with Solex (glass), Heater, D-500 engine and D500-1 (the racing) chassis in the 172 (white and coral paint) by Dec.20, 1955 (two days before the official announcement of the 56 Dodge D500) as a "give away" ,"drive away", unit. ("Anticipating valuable advertising and engineering developing (sic)").

I received this image with the agreement that I *NOT* share it in full with the forum. (Sorry )

1955 NASCAR results:

https://www.racing-reference.info/season-stats/1955/W/

https://www.racing-reference.info/season-stats/1955-30/W/

Not sure which 1955 Season race this was but you can see No. 42 in the second row as a 1955 Dodge (no idea about which engine, have to assume 270 hemi 4 bbl (??))



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-03-23 6:15 PM




(LeePetty1955DodgeAtRaceStart.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2022-12-17 11:29 PM (#626408 - in reply to #620423)
Subject: Re: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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This one wasn't a myth but I thought it was - UNTIL today.

The "myth" was Dodge need to produce at least 500 Dodge D500s to make the car legal to race.

Not a myth.

I found this while looking for something else today:

"When NASCAR was first formed by Bill France, Sr. in 1948 to regulate stock car racing in the U.S., there was a requirement that any car entered be made entirely of parts available to the general public through automobile dealers. Additionally, the cars had to be models that had sold more than 500 units to the public. This is referred to as "homologation." "

REFERENCE: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/327690-the-evolution-of-the-stoc...

The D500 was first announced on Dec. 22, 1955. The first big race that included D500s was the Daytona Beach and Road race on February 26, 1956. Lee Petty ran a D500 (as car No. 42). Fonty Flock ran "500 B" (a D500) as part of the Carl Kiekhaefer team. Bill Blair ran No.5 as a D500, and their were others.

https://www.driveraverages.com/nascar/race.php?sked_id=1956006

Based on the D500 engine that I have developed with input from Bruce Faulkner and Karl Pippart III, by February 1, 1956, 732 D500s had been built, so homogolation requirements had been met.

So homogolation was NOT a myth. Why the "D500" was called the "D500", that is a whole other question.





Edited by 56D500boy 2022-12-18 2:03 AM
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horace
Posted 2022-12-21 4:43 PM (#626486 - in reply to #593387)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Here's one of the D500s, a Royal from our small town, originally white, Orchid & white



(D2D3A90C16EC4D0E8C95885B8DDECACF.png)



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56D500boy
Posted 2024-01-21 10:54 AM (#633466 - in reply to #626486)
Subject: RE: Trying to pound a stake in the heart of two persistent 56 D500 myths



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Found this at Roger H.'s (moparranch's) excellent website

http://www.hasselsvensson.se/mopar5561.htm

The photo shows the new 56 Dodge D500 and a representation of one of the 56 Dodge Custom Royal sedans that set the records at Bonneville in September 1955.





(56D500WithTheBonnevilleRecordCRSedan.jpg)



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