61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?
aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-06 9:32 AM (#600518)
Subject: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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So, I have my 61 fury without ac, running with 42K miles on it's 318. The previous owner had a lot of work done on it prior to my purchase and specifically he replaced the water pump, thermostat and temperature sensor. I've had the car for 1 year and it hasn't overheated yet but it does run hot. Earlier this spring I had a small radiator leak along one of the welds so I had it repaired and all was good. All winter and spring the temperature sits dead middle of both hash marks. Now as I drive it in the July heat here in VA, 85 degrees and above during the day the temperature gauge on the dash sits on the far right has mark prior to the H and it just sits there whether I'm doing 35, 55 or 85 mph. My 65 Fury had factory AC and I don't recall it running this hot but I could be wrong. My question is could this temperature be what the Fury likes without overheating or should I be concerned and if so what would my next step be? It doesn't have a fan shroud to help direct the air into the radiator but I don't know if this model came with one, so that's something that I think might help if I could find one online. thanks for your input.
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58coupe
Posted 2020-07-06 10:10 AM (#600521 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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The first thing to do is get one of those infrared thermometers and verify the temperature. You are dealing with a gauge that is almost 60 years old so it may be running at a normal temp.
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-06 3:42 PM (#600534 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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I've got one of those. What is my target range while at operating temperature and while it's at it's highest mark?
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-07-06 4:37 PM (#600535 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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The first thing I would do, before replacing any parts, would be to clean out your system cooling system. Fill the system with water and one bottle of Drano. Run up to normal temperature, drain, rinse and repeat until you stop getting "rust mud" coming out of the system.
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-06 5:11 PM (#600538 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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so, it's 94 degrees here today and with the car idling in the driveway and the gauge at the right hash mark, the temp of the very top of my radiator is at 208, the top coolant hose hovers around 197 ish at it's hottest point.
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-06 5:13 PM (#600539 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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I drained the radiator when I removed it to take it in for the weld and it looked pretty green with not much muck or brown water in it. I filled it with water and ran it and drained it again and it was pretty clean.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-07-06 10:04 PM (#600548 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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That may be, but I'm willing to bet that your engine block and radiator might be packed with rust that isn't moving from simple draining and refilling. Cooling system with a 318 should hold 20 quarts, drain it totally empty (block, rad, hoses everything) and see if it will take 20 quarts. I just rebuilt a 318 and before we ran it the first time I filled it with 5 full 1 gallon milk jugs of water, or 20 quarts just like the manual says. If you only get 18 into it, you know you have 2 quarts of crap built up and stuck in there. If you pulled your freeze plugs, you'd be surprised how much crud you could scrape out with a screw driver. Your engine is 60 years old and I'm willing to bet is has never been flushed out.
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-07 7:35 AM (#600555 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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ok, good to know. Thank you. Does my reading of 208 degrees F. fall within normal operating temps?
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Daniel 1959
Posted 2020-07-07 8:22 AM (#600557 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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Hi Aaron,

I had a similar problem for years with my 454 BB, always running hot while idleing.

I replaced the waterpump, checked thermostat for proper function and put in a 170 F thermostat, as it opens a bit earlier to have a better flow. I figured out that my old thermostat would only be fully open at 200 F, which I think was too late. I flushed the system twice and put some water weter in it. The results were more than pleasable. Now I am running at 175 F and on hot days 190 F . Thats the temp you would look for, as also the engine oil does not get that hot and also the trans fluid will be in the same range and not deteriorate as quickly, both to the good for a healthy engine.

regards

Dani

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Daniel 1959
Posted 2020-07-07 8:40 AM (#600558 - in reply to #600538)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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aaronsinthegarage - 2020-07-06 5:11 PM

so, it's 94 degrees here today and with the car idling in the driveway and the gauge at the right hash mark, the temp of the very top of my radiator is at 208, the top coolant hose hovers around 197 ish at it's hottest point.


208 is just ok, bit on the warm side. 197 at the hose is probably wrong / not accurate due to the insulation of the hose and fan airflow disturbance, so the coolant is more 208+ in the engine. As you go over 220-230 for a prolonged period, the head gaskets will get deteriorated and eventually destroyed, resulting either a water leak into the cylinder (withe exhaust smoke visible ) or you might get water in the oil system (water drops on the dip stick ), so you will have to replace them sooner or later. You would absolutely avoid going over 230 !!

Dani
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-07 8:43 AM (#600559 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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so, I was reading my shop manual and it says that my radiator cap should be 14lbs but what is on my radiator is 7lbs. Online parts are showing a 16lbs matches my Fury. Could this be the part of the problem? Should I replace it with the 14 or 16lbs cap? Thank you.
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58coupe
Posted 2020-07-07 10:07 AM (#600562 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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The pressure of the cap will make no difference in the temp. it will just keep it from boiling to a higher temp.
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Daniel 1959
Posted 2020-07-07 3:04 PM (#600568 - in reply to #600562)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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58coupe - 2020-07-07 10:07 AM

The pressure of the cap will make no difference in the temp. it will just keep it from boiling to a higher temp.


This is not quite right IMHO. The higher boiling point with the higher pressure prevents the vapor build up in the engine block. Heat transfer is hindered, as vapor has not the same heat transfer rate as liquid water. Thus a higher pressure in the system helps the engine to run cooler...

This is what I know about physics see below link for more info:

https://durathermfluids.com/pdf/techpapers/pressure-boiling-point.pd...


Dani


Edited by Daniel 1959 2020-07-07 3:10 PM
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-07 4:10 PM (#600571 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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thanks for the link, made sense reading it. While out on a 45 mins. drive today with heat at 91 and heat index at 99 and driving in stop and go traffic and interstate traffic, my gauge didn't rise above the right hashmark. Once I finished my run I let the car idle in my driveway and checked the heat at my radiator the hottest point was 207. I feel much better knowing what I do now and I will replace the cap to the higher lbs per my manual. Thanks for the input from all of you! I'm more aware than I was a few days ago.
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Apollo 61
Posted 2020-07-07 5:04 PM (#600573 - in reply to #600571)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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Previous owner probably put 7lb cap on it to reduce pressure on mentioned leak. When you replace it with 14lb cap you will find out if you have any other weak spots in cooling system. Or use a stant presure tester.
I agree with John about checking or changing freeze plugs. If they haven't been done there be a lot of buildup in block.
A shroud makes a significant difference on temp. The A/C 61s have a factory shroud. They are hard to find with A/C
I believe the 62 on up are much more common with A/C and share the radiator and shroud.
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-08 8:18 AM (#600591 - in reply to #600573)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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great, thanks. Purchased the new radiator cap this morning and will see what happens. I'll begin looking for a fan shroud as well.
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60 dart
Posted 2020-07-08 1:58 PM (#600599 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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if a car wasn't born with a shroud , why would one need one now -----------------------------------------------later
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Apollo 61
Posted 2020-07-08 6:41 PM (#600605 - in reply to #600599)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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The bracket to hold the shroud on is welded to the radiator bracket and soldered to radiator. So you may have to modify your radiator bracket also if you want to use a shroud. Something to think about

60 Dart. Are you saying that a shroud and a 6 blade fan instead of 4 blade offers no cooling benefits?



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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-07-08 10:46 PM (#600611 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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I think what Chuck is saying is that the OP is not solving the root cause. The car didn't need a shroud to cool properly for many years, so why does it need one now? I have two 318 polys, neither has a shroud and both run at about 180 degrees with factory original radiators. Both block and radiators have been cleaned out with impressive amounts of crap coming out of both blocks. Again, adding a shroud may treat the symptoms, but it will not solve the root cause.
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60 dart
Posted 2020-07-09 12:01 AM (#600616 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?



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these cars crossed the sand dunes of the west without shrouds and they shouldn't need one now . if it's runnin hot now , there's internal problems
that need lookin into ,,,, >>>>>>> (I think what Chuck is saying is that the OP is not solving the root cause.) ----------------------------------------later
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aaronsinthegarage
Posted 2020-07-09 6:53 AM (#600619 - in reply to #600518)
Subject: Re: 61 Fuy running hot but could this be where it likes it?


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hmm, something to think about for sure. I'd rather fix the root then throw money and parts at it.
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