The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers
56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-21 5:41 PM (#602372)
Subject: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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In a recent thread about a 59 Plymouth Fury that was for sale (link below), there was some discussion about the push-button shifter pattern, i.e. RND21 or RND12, etc. This evolved into some discussion about the Neutral Starting feature of the 1957 and 58 Chryslers and Dodges. Since that information might never be found again (because it was in a for sale thread), I thought that I would extract the key information and consolidate it in a separate post that would be easier to find with SEARCH. This is the post.

This isn't the first time that the neutral starting switch has come up in a thread. It also came up in my Neutral Safety Switch thread as it expanded from 1955-56 Powerflite cars to 1957 and up cars with Torqueflites. As it turns out, after a little investigation, it was only the 1957 and 1958 Chryslers and Dodges (with torqueflites) that got the Neutral Starting switch. The Chryslers were more open with this with Special N/Start buttons on the Torqueflite shifter pad. Dodges had the feature but only had an N button, not an N/Start button (I don't know why). Desotos and Plymouths did NOT get the feature.

The idea behind the switch is presumably providing a "modern convenience" for affluent customers which, in this case, meant that to start the car, instead of having to twist the ignition key all the way to the right to the START position (oh my Gosh, how inconvenient (LOL )), all you had to do was turn the key to RUN and then push the Neutral button deeply to activate a start button (complete a circuit to the starter solenoid).

The 57 Chrysler brochure flagged the feature:



There were very few differences between the 57 and 58 Chrysler Torqueflite shifter button pads (and both had the same N/Start button):

1957:



1958:



I thought I should flag how close the Desoto came to getting the feature: From the listing below, you can see that the 57-58 Dodge, Plymouth, Desoto and Chryslers all had different part numbers for their neutral buttons. What is interesting is the 57-58 Chrysler and Desotos shared the R, D, 2 and 1 buttons, they had different N buttons (because the Chryslers had the N/Start and the Desotos did not):



But all the Desoto got was:



Perhaps weirder, the 57-58 Dodges with Torqueflites got the N/Start feature but their Neutral buttons were not marked as such, just "N":





The extra "convenience" of the N/Start feature did come with a mechanical/electrical "cost" (more hardware). I am guessing that early trials of the feature exposed a minor flaw: when the engine was idling quietly and the driver was distracted in conversation or by the radio or was just plain day dreaming, the N/Start button might be pushed, engaging the starter with the already spinning ring gear on the flywheel, with resulting noise and embarrassment (?). To prevent that from happening, the Chrysler (and Dodge) engineers added a vacuum switch into the starting circuit, such that if the engine was running and making some vacuum, the switch would open and the starting circuit would be incomplete.

Here are some examples of the wiring diagrams that show the neutral safety switch, the vacuum switch and the neutral starting switch in series:

Phil C (the Frenchie)'s:



58 Chrysler Factory Service Manual:



57 Dodge Factory Service Manual:



The vacuum switch had a PN of 1770 093 and was only on the 1957-58 Chryslers and Dodges:



The vacuum switch looked like this:



It was installed near the rear of the intake manifold at the same point that the intake vacuum was drawn for the power brake system, via a "Y" fitting:



This page from the 1957 Dodge Factory Service Manual shows the concept of the Neutral Starter Switch attached to the back of the shifter plate box. The text also explains how the Neutral button works as the starter button:



To make this happen, the Torqueflite shifter plate box had to be different than the ones used before and the ones used in the Plymouths and Desotos (they did not get the feature). In this case, the 1739 173 shifter box, has an extra extension tang on the Neutral shifter plate that contacts and pushes on the neutral starting button switch when the N/Start button is pushed hard towards the shifter button plate. This box was only used on the 1957-58 Chryslers and Dodges, no Desotos or Plymouths, even if they had Torqueflites:



You can see this Neutral shifter plate extension in this annotated photo:



And this one from Phil C:



Now, finally, to the actual Neutral Starting Switch attached to the rear of the Torqueflite shifter box, as shown in these photos from Phil C:





There were four part numbers for the Neutral Starting Switch. In each year, 57 and 58, Chrysler and Dodge, used different switches (so 2 x 2 = 4) Their PNs were 1779 888, 1838 222, 1843 421, and 1843 420. I've only been able to find photos of the first three but from what I can see, the actual push button switch is likely the same in all four, it just the connectors on the wires that are different. The switches seem to be riveted to an extension of the shifter box and therefore could be removed for repair and/or replacement (and then pop-riveted back into position). Of the ones that I found yesterday, they were either on eBay, Hiltop Mopar parts or Mopar Mall.

They are still out there.

Photos of the switches followed by some photos from Phil C regarding the shifter box (that I will insert into the text above)

REFERENCES:
Neutral Safety Switch (on the transmission): http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=69708
The 59 Plymouth for sale thread where the N/Start came up (most recently): http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=74488


Edited by 56D500boy 2020-08-22 2:08 AM




(57-58ChryslerDodgeNeutralStarterSwitchPNs.jpg)



(1779888_57ChryslerNeutralStaterSwitch.jpg)



(1779888_AtMoparMall.jpg)



(1838222_NeutraStartingSwitch.jpg)



(1838222_NeutraStartingSwitch_2.jpg)



(1838222_AtMoparMall.jpg)



(1843421_NeutralStartingSwitch.jpg)



(1843421_NeutralStartingSwitch_2.jpg)



(PhilCsShifterSwitch_0.JPG)



(PhilCsShifterSwitch_1.jpg)



(PhilCsShifterSwitch_2.JPG)



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Attachments 57-58ChryslerDodgeNeutralStarterSwitchPNs.jpg (178KB - 308 downloads)
Attachments 1779888_57ChryslerNeutralStaterSwitch.jpg (103KB - 300 downloads)
Attachments 1779888_AtMoparMall.jpg (28KB - 305 downloads)
Attachments 1838222_NeutraStartingSwitch.jpg (108KB - 301 downloads)
Attachments 1838222_NeutraStartingSwitch_2.jpg (133KB - 308 downloads)
Attachments 1838222_AtMoparMall.jpg (27KB - 305 downloads)
Attachments 1843421_NeutralStartingSwitch.jpg (57KB - 308 downloads)
Attachments 1843421_NeutralStartingSwitch_2.jpg (31KB - 308 downloads)
Attachments PhilCsShifterSwitch_0.JPG (83KB - 304 downloads)
Attachments PhilCsShifterSwitch_1.jpg (42KB - 310 downloads)
Attachments PhilCsShifterSwitch_2.JPG (59KB - 306 downloads)
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Space Trukin Wagon
Posted 2020-08-23 9:34 AM (#602434 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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56D500boy - thanks for putting this together! Excellent information and pictures for reference.


Edited by Space Trukin Wagon 2020-08-23 9:35 AM
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ToMopar
Posted 2020-08-24 6:34 AM (#602461 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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this feature is a very cool item from this era. If I think about the susceptibility to failure I am glad I only have a Fireflite. But its cool anyway.
Thanks Dave for the collection of facts.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-24 9:26 PM (#602502 - in reply to #602461)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Chas and Tom: Thanks (you're welcome). I like to document things that I have researched so others can find the information in the future. Sometimes it doesn't even matter now but it might in the future.

I like the challenge of compiling the info and presenting it a logical manner. It's what I do (especially when the option is painting my fence).

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KcImperial
Posted 2020-08-25 2:47 AM (#602519 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: RE: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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The 57-58 Imperial also had the neutral start button. The button is only marked with "N" unlike the Chrysler's that had the additional word "Start" on it
Here is one of mine in operation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJvJV8KyInM




Edited by KcImperial 2020-08-25 2:49 AM
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Suddenlyits1960!
Posted 2020-08-25 11:48 AM (#602553 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Thanks “KcImperial”,neat video. So now we know that Dodge,Chrysler and Imperial used this system. I’m baffled as to why Chrysler got special neutral buttons mentioning the start feature and yet Dodge and Imperial did not. As Mr. Spock would say,”highly illogical”. You would think if any make were to receive specially worded buttons it would be Chrysler’s most prestigious make,Imperial.

It would be fascinating to hear someone who worked for Chrysler during this era explain why they did some of the things they did. Like why did DeSoto and Plymouth not have this feature? DeSoto certainly was a make “above” Dodge in the Chrysler lineup,so even if they left out low priced Plymouth you’d still think DeSoto would have the feature if Dodge had it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-08-25 1:00 PM (#602556 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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I believe the answer to that is that back then, they didn't coordinate much between brands. Each brand was left to do its own thing to a large degree. There were rules that had to be followed so that a DeSoto didn't end up with a bigger motor than a Chrysler, and that Chrysler/DeSoto had to share the same body as well as interchangeability between Dodge/Plymouth for the export market, but outside of that, they were pretty free to do as they thought best. Imperial especially, was free to do what they liked. So they just didn't feel it would offer much to their customers. Today, parts interchangeability between brands is a big issue and they use the same parts as much as possible to reduce their manufacturing costs.
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ToMopar
Posted 2020-08-28 7:13 AM (#602671 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Dave, this you forgot to post





(Neutral Push Button Starting 2.jpg)



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Attachments Neutral Push Button Starting 2.jpg (213KB - 300 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-28 10:28 AM (#602677 - in reply to #602671)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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ToMopar - 2020-08-28 4:13 AM
Dave, this you forgot to post


Thanks for posting that. I do not have that factory training booklet (so I didn't forget ). It confirms that only Dodge, Chrysler and Imperial got the feature.

I like the use of a wire jumper to diagnose a non-starting problem.

Found this video:

Chrysler Master Tech - 1956, Volume 10-1 Service Tips On '57 Cars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvpO0teE1w0

The neutral starting switch stuff starts at 5:10





Edited by 56D500boy 2020-08-28 10:56 AM




(NeutralStarterSwitchVideoStart.jpg)



(NeutralStarterSwitchVideo_ChryslerCircuit.jpg)



(NeutralStarterSwitchVideo_DodgeCircuit.jpg)



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Attachments NeutralStarterSwitchVideoStart.jpg (95KB - 302 downloads)
Attachments NeutralStarterSwitchVideo_ChryslerCircuit.jpg (106KB - 310 downloads)
Attachments NeutralStarterSwitchVideo_DodgeCircuit.jpg (97KB - 298 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-08-28 1:28 PM (#602687 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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...and the best wire jumpers are made from solid core house wiring.
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ToMopar
Posted 2020-09-02 6:45 AM (#602821 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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I've found a video which shows to start a 57 Dodge with the neutral push button

https://youtu.be/g0GJZxRaE5Y?t=263
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-09-28 9:42 PM (#603720 - in reply to #602677)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Bought a NOS 58 Dodge 1843 421 Neutral starting switch to see if I can install it on my 56 Torqueflite 1673 906 shifter box over the winter. Needs a bracket at the end of the box and a extension of the neutral shift plate to contact the button.







Edited by 56D500boy 2020-09-28 9:43 PM




(1843421NeutralStartingSwitch.jpg)



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Attachments 1843421NeutralStartingSwitch.jpg (80KB - 270 downloads)
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57burb
Posted 2020-10-01 10:49 AM (#603831 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: RE: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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That will be a nice upgrade for your '56!

56D500boy - 2020-08-21 4:41 PM

It was installed near the rear of the intake manifold at the same point that the intake vacuum was drawn for the power brake system, via a "Y" fitting:




Just a (very) minor correction here. For my '57 New Yorker, the intake manifold has the single large NPT port for power brakes, but there is a second 1/8 NPT port drilled in it for the vacuum switch.

I suspect the T or Y fitting in your post is for cars with 2x4 carburetors (300C for sure, maybe Super D500/D501s, and the elusive "Power Pack" New Yorker option) where there wasn't enough space on the manifold for drilling a second hole.
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billy
Posted 2021-01-18 10:24 AM (#607840 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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OK, now I'm curious...what is the elusive "Power Pack" option??? I'm currently working on my 57 NYer and have found my Neutral push button start by-passed.. i just have a push button switch attached to the dash...that's the way its been since I bought it in Texas in 1977......can one of those neutral start switches still be bought?

Edited by billy 2021-01-18 1:42 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-01-18 4:44 PM (#607854 - in reply to #607840)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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billy - 2021-01-18 7:24 AM
OK, now I'm curious...what is the elusive "Power Pack" option??? I'm currently working on my 57 NYer and have found my Neutral push button start by-passed.. i just have a push button switch attached to the dash...that's the way its been since I bought it in Texas in 1977......can one of those neutral start switches still be bought?


From one of my posts in this thread:

"There were four part numbers for the Neutral Starting Switch. In each year, 57 and 58, Chrysler and Dodge, used different switches (so 2 x 2 = 4) Their PNs were 1779 888, 1838 222, 1843 421, and 1843 420. I've only been able to find photos of the first three but from what I can see, the actual push button switch is likely the same in all four, it just the connectors on the wires that are different."

I bought one in November or December 2020, new in a box.

A quick eBay search on "1779888 1838222 1843421 1843420 switch" turns up four:

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313...

Mopar Mall will have at least one of those numbers too.

As for "Power Pak (or Pack)", typically that meant an upgrade from 2 bbl to 4 bbl and dual exhausts as in a 1957 Windsor Spitfire 354 Poly. Not sure if one for a 4 bbl 392 would be two four bbls or not.







Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-18 5:53 PM
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billy
Posted 2021-01-19 9:10 AM (#607875 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Thanks Dave...
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-04-10 9:56 PM (#620831 - in reply to #607854)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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It was recently (today) pointed out to me that the 57-58 Dodge and Chrysler Neutral Starting systems used a different ignition switch, i.e. one that does NOT have a center starter terminal. This actually shows in the diagrams that I posted above but I did NOT pick up on that. (My bad )

This:



The PN of this non-center terminal switch was 1770 040, as shown below

(and discussed here): http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=77225&...





Edited by 56D500boy 2022-04-10 9:57 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-10 7:18 PM (#621393 - in reply to #620831)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Some time ago I bought a NOS neutral starting switch with the idea that I was clever enough [insert laughter here ] to modify the Torqueflite neutral shifter plate to be able to touch the neutral starting switch (once I had figured out how to mount the switch on the back of the shifter box.) That never happened. I blame Covid (or just plain lazyness, your choice).

As of today, I have purchased a neutral starting switch Torqueflite shifter box (from Charlie Marshall - thanks Charlie ). So a(nother) new project. Like I don't have enough on the books already.

On that basis, I found a 1770 093 neutral vacuum safety switch today with my local NOS parts guy (he said "How many do you want?" = apparently he has more than one).

So the last piece of the puzzle, not withstanding the wiring (which won't be a big deal), is the adapter on the manifold that allows the mounting of the neutral vacuum safety switch *AND* the vacuum port/hose for the power brakes. I remembered that Nathan (Powerflite) went through this awhile back and he created a solution. In the middle of the that thread 1960_des (Micke S.) posted a couple of photos which seems to show the OE adapter (see below):

Anybody know any details on that adapter? PN? Thread sizes, etc. It looks nice and neat and compact.

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67805&...





Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-11 2:02 AM




(AdapterOnA392ForPBVacuumAndNeutralStartingVacuumSafetySwitch.jpg)



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Attachments AdapterOnA392ForPBVacuumAndNeutralStartingVacuumSafetySwitch.jpg (178KB - 41 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-05-10 11:22 PM (#621397 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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That particular fitting is specific to the 300C and 300D. It combines two ports into one due to a lack of space with dual 4bbl carburetors. The single 4bbl intakes had 2 separate ports on it for each function. If the car wasn't ordered with power brakes, that 2nd port on the intake wasn't drilled. I was lucky to pick up this fitting with my new dual quad intake as it is tough to find. But you can make something similar to what I did in my Black New Yorker thread.

Edited by Powerflite 2022-05-10 11:31 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-11 2:09 AM (#621399 - in reply to #621397)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Thanks for the info Nathan. Would it be possible to post some photos of that fitting?

I can imagine what it will look like but photos would help. A Part number (stamped on the fitting??) would be useful to chase down with the NOS parts sellers.

Just hoping.

In lieu of the real thing, I see something like this (with its male and female NPT bits) having some potential:

(From this: https://www.greenlinehose.com/search?text=brass%20tee)





Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-11 2:31 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-11 4:39 PM (#621409 - in reply to #621399)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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56D500boy - 2022-05-10 11:09 PM
In lieu of the real thing, I see something like this (with its male and female NPT bits) having some potential:
(From this: https://www.greenlinehose.com/search?text=brass%20tee)


Turns out that NewLine (also local to me) has the same type of extruded brass fitting (in stock!!). Now to figure out the male threads. A bushing will likely be required for the male portion of the 1770 093 vacuum switch when it gets mounted in the top of this type of FxFxM tee.

https://www.new-line.com/fittings/brass-nylon-and-poly-pipe-fittings...







Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-11 5:25 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-05-11 6:22 PM (#621412 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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There aren't any markings on it that I remember. I can take a picture of it for you when I get back home on Saturday. This is one picture of it that I posted previously.

Edited by Powerflite 2022-05-11 6:24 PM




(300C Fittings.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-12 8:41 PM (#621444 - in reply to #621412)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Powerflite - 2022-05-11 3:22 PM
There aren't any markings on it that I remember. I can take a picture of it for you when I get back home on Saturday. This is one picture of it that I posted previously.


Thanks Nathan. I think that by the time you get back, I will probably have it figured out.

Yesterday, I pulled my existing PB vacuum line fittings from the intake manifold and determined that the base fitting was 3/8" NPT by trying a 3/8" NPT nipple in the hole after I removed the base bushing.

Today I went to our local "big box" hardware store (a branch of RONA - think small Lowes) and played in their plumbing department. I found everything that would be needed except the beaded hose x 3/8" NPT fitting. So I decided to use my new New-Line hose catalogue and figure everything out and order from them. Should be in tomorrow.

I am supposed to pick-up the 1770 093 vacuum switch tomorrow which will tell me whether it is 1/8" NPT or 1/4" NPT. I hedged my bets and ordered both 1/8" and 1/4" NPT x 3/8" NPT bushings.

I also ordered both 2" and 2.5" nipples to sit under the brass T, in case 2" might not be enough.

Some photos:



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-12 9:15 PM




(56DodgeIntakeManifoldPowerBrakeVacuumLineFittings_InSitu.jpg)



(56DodgePowerBrakeVacuumLineFittings_PlusPressureSwitchForScale.jpg)



(56DodgeIntakeManifoldPowerBrakeVacuumLineFittings_RemovedAnd2inch3_8thsNPTNipple installed.jpg)



(BrassHardwareStoreSolutionForNeutralVacuumSafetySwitch_WithNewLinePNs_Annotated.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeIntakeManifoldPowerBrakeVacuumLineFittings_InSitu.jpg (155KB - 37 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgePowerBrakeVacuumLineFittings_PlusPressureSwitchForScale.jpg (169KB - 39 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeIntakeManifoldPowerBrakeVacuumLineFittings_RemovedAnd2inch3_8thsNPTNipple installed.jpg (160KB - 39 downloads)
Attachments BrassHardwareStoreSolutionForNeutralVacuumSafetySwitch_WithNewLinePNs_Annotated.jpg (142KB - 37 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-13 9:42 PM (#621461 - in reply to #621444)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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56D500boy - 2022-05-12 5:41 PMI am supposed to pick-up the 1770 093 vacuum switch tomorrow which will tell me whether it is 1/8" NPT or 1/4" NPT. I hedged my bets and ordered both 1/8" and 1/4" NPT x 3/8" NPT bushings. I also ordered both 2" and 2.5" nipples to sit under the brass T, in case 2" might not be enough.


Picked up the 1770 093 Switch this AM (and some NOS suspension bits) and then went to the New-Line fitting store to pick-up my order. Cancelled the 1/4" NPT x 3/8" NPT bushing because the switch is 1/8" NPT.

Here is a photo of the first mock-up with the parts, from the bottom to the top:

2" x 3/8" NPT nipple = could be shorter, e.g. 1.5"

The 3/8" x 3.8" x 3.8" Female NPT tee

A 3/8" NPT x 1/2" beaded hose fitting

The 3/8" NPT x 1/8" NPT bushing

The 1770 093 vacuum safety switch (closed when there is no vacuum).

I want to lower the system, using, I presume a 1.5" nipple

I don't like the way the bushing sits out at the top. If I could weld, I would cut off the 3/8" NPT threads and braze/weld the hex with the 1/8" NPT to the top of the Tee.

Also bought some new 1/2" ID rubber hose to replace the stiff 66 year old OE hoses. (I might keep them for the future owner in case he/she is a purist).

Regardless, Progress.




Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-13 11:13 PM




(FirstCutWithTheNewLineFittingsAndThe1770093Switch.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-14 11:25 AM (#621467 - in reply to #621461)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Hmm...Looks like "my" solution is very similar to what Nathan (Powerflite) came up with for his dual carb 392

In this thread:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67805&...

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Powerflite
Posted 2022-05-14 12:38 PM (#621469 - in reply to #621467)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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That one was too close to the carb to work. I ended up going with this one, which required me to tap a hole in the side of the 45 degree pipe.



(392VacuumFitting.jpg)



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Attachments 392VacuumFitting.jpg (128KB - 38 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-14 3:39 PM (#621486 - in reply to #621461)
Subject: 2nd iteration of installation of the 1770 093 vacuum switch on a 56 Dodge



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My second cut:

1.5" x 3/8" NPT nipple (instead of the first cut's 2" nipple)

The 3/8" x 3.8" x 3.8" Female NPT tee

A 3/8" NPT x 1/2" beaded hose fitting

The 3/8" NPT Street elbow (male NPT at one end and female NPT at the other end)

3/8" NPT x 1/8" NPT bushing into the Street elbow

The 1770 093 vacuum safety switch (closed when there is no vacuum) in to the bushing.

Overall height has been significantly reduced and the vacuum switch spade ends are facing a better direction for wiring from the firewall.

(WINNER!)






(SecondCutWithTheNewLineFittingsAndThe1770093Switch.jpg)



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Attachments SecondCutWithTheNewLineFittingsAndThe1770093Switch.jpg (171KB - 40 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-14 8:38 PM (#621507 - in reply to #621486)
Subject: RE: 2nd iteration of installation of the 1770 093 vacuum switch on a 56 Dodge



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Installed the components in the previous photo with Teflon tape and checked the vacuum switch before and after starting the engine.

BEFORE = the switch is closed and there is some resistance = current will flow through the switch to the starter solenoid

AFTER = the switch goes open = no current will flow to the starter solenoid, i.e. it becomes a safety switch even without the neutral starting shifter box (due in on Tuesday - Thanks Charlie M.)

I think in the short term I will wire up the switch by extending the ignition switch starter trigger signal from the solenoid (disconnected at the solenoid), then to the vacuum switch and then back from the second pin on the vacuum switch back to the trigger signal connection on the starter solenoid.

Play with this:



Here is the vacuum switch resistances, before and after starting the engine, (started quite well without touching the throttle pedal BTW):



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-15 2:27 AM




(1770093NeutralSafetyVacuumSwitch_BeforeStarting.jpg)



(1770093NeutralSafetyVacuumSwitch_AFTERStarting.jpg)



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Attachments 1770093NeutralSafetyVacuumSwitch_BeforeStarting.jpg (163KB - 37 downloads)
Attachments 1770093NeutralSafetyVacuumSwitch_AFTERStarting.jpg (174KB - 35 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-15 9:51 PM (#621521 - in reply to #621507)
Subject: Testing the Vacuum Safety Switch



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56D500boy - 2022-05-14 5:38 PM
I think in the short term I will wire up the switch by extending the ignition switch starter trigger signal from the solenoid (disconnected at the solenoid), then to the vacuum switch and then back from the second pin on the vacuum switch back to the trigger signal connection on the starter solenoid.


So that is what I did. I disconnected the trigger wire from the ignition switch at the starter solenoid and got it wired to one of the 1770 093 terminals. Then I ran a wire back to the starter solenoid starter trigger terminal from the second 1770 093 terminal.

Guess what?

I worked ;

Once the engine was running and warmed up (a bit), I held my breath and turned the ignition key to "START". Nada. Zip. Zilch. Kein. Which is a good thing.

Now to get the actual neutral starting Torqueflite shifter box into play.

The wiring:





(1770093VacuumSafetySwitchWithWiring_GreenInput_BlueOutput_Annotated.jpg)



(ConnectionsAtStarterSolenoid_To_From_VacuumSafetySwitch_Annotated.jpg)



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Attachments 1770093VacuumSafetySwitchWithWiring_GreenInput_BlueOutput_Annotated.jpg (192KB - 36 downloads)
Attachments ConnectionsAtStarterSolenoid_To_From_VacuumSafetySwitch_Annotated.jpg (237KB - 34 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-17 8:15 PM (#621549 - in reply to #621521)
Subject: Preliminary Review of a 1739 173 Neutral Starting Switch TF shifter box



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Today, I picked up the 1957-58 Dodge and Chrysler 1739 173 Neutral Starting Switch Torqueflite shifter box that I bought from Charlie M. the other week (thanks Charlie)

As per the parts book listing, it comes with both the reverse light (back-up light) switch and the neutral starting switch.



I knew that the neutral slider in the shifter box had an extension "tang" that contacted the neutral starting switch when the neutral starting switch was pushed extra hard.

*HOWEVER* I did *NOT* realize until today that the neutral slider was actually two parts, i.e. the normal slider for changing transmission gears and a second slider for the neutral starting switch contact tang.
The two parts are connected (somehow) with a second spring causing the neutral starter slide/tang to retract when the pressure on the Neutral button is decreased. This presumably does not take the transmission out of neutral, it just moves the starter contact tang away from the neutral starting switch button.

I will have to add some missing wires to the both the neutral starting switch and the reverse (back-up) light switch but the rest of the shifter seems in good order. I've sprayed it "clean" with brake cleaner and I am debating whether it needs a bath in Rust Check Rust Wash (mostly the springs). And then a good spray lube before installation.

Photos from just now:



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-17 9:42 PM




(1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Top.jpg)



(1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Top_2.jpg)



(1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Top_NeutralPlateDetail.jpg)



(1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Bottom.jpg)



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Attachments 1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Top.jpg (124KB - 35 downloads)
Attachments 1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Top_2.jpg (107KB - 36 downloads)
Attachments 1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Top_NeutralPlateDetail.jpg (110KB - 34 downloads)
Attachments 1739173NeutralStartingTorqueFliteShifterBoxWithReverseLightSwitchAndNeutralStartingSwitch_Bottom.jpg (163KB - 35 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-18 8:47 PM (#621583 - in reply to #621521)
Subject: Final iteration of the Vacuum Safety ("Lock- Out") Switch Install



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In reviewing the factory images of the system, I see that the correct term for what I was calling the Vacuum Safety Switch is the "Lock-out Switch". (Oops)

After the previous install with a straight 3/8" NPT fitting into the Tee and then a straight 1/2" beaded hose fitting, I realized that the hose and the throttle return spring were in conflict.

So I ordered a 45 deg fitting. Got that Monday and installed it yesterday.

Today I tightened the fittings (especially the 3/8" nipple and Tee fitting) and added new 1/2" "heater" hose from the fitting to the vacuum storage tank and then from the tank to the Power Brake belows.

Here are photos of the "final" (I hope) iteration of this part of the Neutral Starting Switch (system) install.

(It may not show but the hose does NOT touch the throttle return spring):




Edited by 56D500boy 2022-05-19 2:40 AM




(3rdIterationWith45DegNPTtoHoseFittingToClearThrottleReturnSpring.jpg)



(3rdIterationWith45DegNPTtoHoseFittingToClearThrottleReturnSpring_NewHalfInchVacuumHoseInstalled.jpg)



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Attachments 3rdIterationWith45DegNPTtoHoseFittingToClearThrottleReturnSpring.jpg (211KB - 39 downloads)
Attachments 3rdIterationWith45DegNPTtoHoseFittingToClearThrottleReturnSpring_NewHalfInchVacuumHoseInstalled.jpg (187KB - 34 downloads)
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local2Ed
Posted 2022-05-19 7:28 AM (#621597 - in reply to #621583)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers


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Get rid of the heater hose and use power brake vacuum hose.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-19 10:43 AM (#621599 - in reply to #621597)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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local2Ed - 2022-05-19 4:28 AM
Get rid of the heater hose and use power brake vacuum hose.


Say what?

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local2Ed
Posted 2022-05-19 5:46 PM (#621614 - in reply to #621599)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers


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56D500boy - 2022-05-19 10:43 AM

local2Ed - 2022-05-19 4:28 AM
Get rid of the heater hose and use power brake vacuum hose.


Say what?

:(




https://techtalk.mpbrakes.com/how-to-series/picking-the-proper-vacuu...
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-05-19 8:09 PM (#621618 - in reply to #621614)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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I went to our local after market car parts store (LORDCO - think O'Reilly's) and they did not have any 1/2" vacuum hose. I took the OE 1/2" manifold fitting for them to try. Only 1/2" hoses that they have are
a) heater and b) fuel.

I can try another store (Canadian Tire) tomorrow.

I checked the "heater" hose I installed yesterday, at idle and it is NOT being sucked closed, at least not at idle.

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Powerflite
Posted 2022-05-20 12:54 PM (#621621 - in reply to #602372)
Subject: Re: The 57-58 Chrysler/Dodge Neutral Starting Switch - with Part Numbers



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Ebay is a good place to get it from. But I don't think it's a big deal to use heater hose on it. I'm sure it'll work fine. It's only 18psi at most.

Edited by Powerflite 2022-05-20 12:56 PM
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