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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
 
Location: PL / EU | LA body tag - many of us are trying to figure it out.
Two patterns were used - the first in 1956, the second in 1957-59.
The B/T lower line is easy to decode, but the M codes are puzzling.
This is even more difficult when we say that the tag codes are probably not the same as the IBM card codes.
A 1956 tag contains the codes M1 to M9. The 1957-59 tag is slightly different - the M7, M8, M9 codes are gone.
Instead of them there is a sequence number.
It's hard to decode, but it's not impossible. More research is needed.
I think the same scheme was used for all brands, maybe even all four years.
The factory had to have a system that was easy for workers.
The body tag contains less data than the IBM card and the build sheet.
On the 56 Chrysler / De Soto the body tag is hardly available after the brake booster mounted.
So after this stage B/T it was not used anymore?
 (56 BT.jpg)
 (57-59 BT.jpg)
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 56 BT.jpg (36KB - 376 downloads)
57-59 BT.jpg (37KB - 363 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Here are a few examples of 56 B/T.
Note that the M4 and M7 codes are never used, the M8 code is always used.
 (56 table.JPG)
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56 table.JPG (83KB - 354 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
 
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Great article Robert!
Very much to think about this!
Here I posted a picture of ’58 Dodge Custom Sierra (which less M7, M8, and M9)
But below SEQ NO I see an «8»… it could be an M8 = 8 or a M9 = 8
 (1.jpg)
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1.jpg (179KB - 365 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
 
Location: So. Cal | Great table Robert, but it would be good to couple that with the options that each of those came with. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Powerflite - 2021-01-30 4:25 PM
Great table Robert, but it would be good to couple that with the options that each of those came with.
I have it (at least partially), check the attachment
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56LA.xlsx (19KB - 397 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2021-01-30 6:32 AM
Here I posted a picture of ’58 Dodge Custom Sierra (which less M7, M8, and M9)
But below SEQ NO I see an «8»… it could be an M8 = 8 or a M9 = 8
Same tag, slightly enhanced. Hopefully easier to read.
 (58DodgeCowlDataTag_Enhanced_2.jpg)
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58DodgeCowlDataTag_Enhanced_2.jpg (248KB - 356 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 4036
Location: Connecticut | Most likely, SG refers to Solex Glass. EW refers to Electric Windows. Ron |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | In 1959, the factory sometimes mounted a body tag 56 type.
In these plates, the codes M7, M8, M9 are empty.
I've only seen a few examples. So maybe they used these codes sometimes.
I suppose they did the same in 1957-58.
The plate shown by Igor is interesting. It's a newer type, printed with an old pattern.
8 is not a sequence number, so it must be M8 = 8 or M9 = 8 |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | another example: 1957 Plymouth tag
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25108&...
older type of body tag with printed sequence number in place of M7,M8,M9 codes
 (57 Data Tag.jpg)
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57 Data Tag.jpg (192KB - 357 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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If the upholstery has the code 423, then it is probably beige (because the last 3 means beige)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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 (1.JPG)
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1.JPG (92KB - 349 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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This is a common practice: on the station wagons, one beige (tan) color was always used |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Igor: If that is your photo, try again, turning the page with the sample 90 deg to the right to concentrate only on the good info. A bit better focus would help. 
If it is an eBay photo, maybe this is as good as it gets:
(I see 341, 342, 343, 344 and 346)
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-31 11:24 AM
 (57BelvedereInteriorSamplesAndCodes.jpg)
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57BelvedereInteriorSamplesAndCodes.jpg (247KB - 364 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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BTW
341 = BLUE
342 = GREEN
343 = BEIGE (OR TAN)
344 = BLACK AND WHITE
346 = RED AND WHITE
Question: Where the last five «5» (a code 345) – is that GRAY or not?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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would be |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Igor, here is the number 423, but it doesn't matter in this thread.
Let's focus on the M codes.
 (423.JPG)
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423.JPG (43KB - 360 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | here are some examples for 59 Plymouth (see attachment for full table)
 (59plym.JPG)
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59plym.JPG (32KB - 369 downloads)
1959 Plymouth LA tag.xlsx (14KB - 346 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | I just wonder...
If you produce Dodge and Plymouth in the same factory, will you come up with a different marking system for everyone?
Nope, you will use one system. You will only use other numbers.
So, trying to decode each brand's body tags separately we make a mistake. We have to do this at the same time.
Based on 59 Plymouth and Dodge body tags and IBM cards, I know the accessory groups are not marked on the body tag.
Again, based on the 59 Plym, I think M4 = 9 is the toilet seat.
In this thread hhttp://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=75339&posts=11&start=1
Igor said that M4 = 3 for 58 Dodge is a Spring Special option.
Let's call it a custom look, so M4=custom look. If I'm not mistaken, this should work for any brand and year (56-59)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Here what I have about 1959 LA-codes for every division of Chrysler Corporation:
Sorry for bad resolution (but still readable) – I took photos from my monitor screen
 (59 Chrysler.JPG)
 (59 DeSoto.JPG)
 (59 Dodge.JPG)
 (59 Plymouth.JPG)
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59 Chrysler.JPG (159KB - 365 downloads)
59 DeSoto.JPG (82KB - 351 downloads)
59 Dodge.JPG (164KB - 356 downloads)
59 Plymouth.JPG (72KB - 351 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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And to the 1958 except Plymouth (not done yet)
 (58 Chrysler.JPG)
 (58 DeSoto.JPG)
 (58 Dodge.JPG)
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58 Chrysler.JPG (96KB - 362 downloads)
58 DeSoto.JPG (134KB - 365 downloads)
58 Dodge.JPG (174KB - 352 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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So I guess the lone 8 at the right top corner of '58 Dodge tag means a HOOD ORNAMENT 8 = 408
 (lone 8 on top right corner.jpg)
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lone 8 on top right corner.jpg (248KB - 350 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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 (1.jpg)
 (2.jpg)
 (3.jpg)
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1.jpg (38KB - 366 downloads)
2.jpg (55KB - 344 downloads)
3.jpg (25KB - 354 downloads)
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Posts: 1889
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The time difference is 8 hours: 10:30 vs 02:30
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Thanks for sharing Igor. I still have little data. It's hard to find a matching body tag and IBM card. It is necessary for proper verification. A car is not essential.
I suppose the pattern is the same for 1957-58-59. I'm not sure about 1956.
Accessory group, mirror, swivel seat, sport tone is not printed on the tag M codes. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | I think that ultimately it will look like this
 (La data tag.JPG)
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La data tag.JPG (49KB - 353 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2021-02-02 11:57 AM
I think that ultimately it will look like this
Robert: I truly hope that you can get this sorted, perhaps with help from Igor and myself (?)
I trust that you will be able to incorporate the info from my LA-built 56 Dodge into your table (see below, not for the first time, I've been seeking answers since Oct. 2016)
My 56 Dodge has the D500 engine and 12" Chrysler brakes, 2 spd Powerflite (when it left the factory), Power Steering and Power Brakes but NO power seats, power windows or air conditioning. It does have both outside fender mirrors and Solex glass all around. It was probably delivered to Anacortes Washington by boat to Portland and then truck to Ancortes (Route "4" = boat/truck (??). Not sure about the radio your M1 = 8 suggests the 8 tube radio but it didn't have a radio opening plate, just the closed radio delete plate so that is a problem with no clear answer.
I know everything about the bottomline but the SG to M9 row is still a problem. 
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-02-03 9:21 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4036
Location: Connecticut | M1 thru M9 probably refer to option groups.
Ron |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | ronbo97 - 2021-02-03 6:37 PM
M1 thru M9 probably refer to option groups.
Ron
Sadly, no. Not for LA cars. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | ronbo97 - 2021-02-04 3:37 AM
M1 thru M9 probably refer to option groups.
Ron
Definitely not. Take a look at this set. There are six groups of accessories, four are ordered and only code stamped M2 = 3.
Or differently - the first car has a group of 2,4,5,7
the second car has a group of 2,3,4,6 - both have M2 = 3. It just doesn't work.
 (1A.JPG)
 (1B.JPG)
 (2A.JPG)
 (2B.JPG)
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1A.JPG (78KB - 346 downloads)
1B.JPG (242KB - 345 downloads)
2A.JPG (112KB - 347 downloads)
2B.JPG (127KB - 344 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Thanks Dave. The tag + broadcast sheet + IBM card sets are the most helpful. Unfortunately, finding it is almost impossible.
First, we need to define what is definitely not stamped on the tag.
Edited by RDP 2021-02-04 11:30 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Great thread! It appears that accessory groups factor into some of the M codes, but not all. Also, the M codes may vary by make and year.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | I don't know, but I suspect that they have nothing to do with the accessories. They probably only cover the parts that directly affect the body configuration. What that is, I'm not sure. |
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Posts: 1889
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Dave: Sometimes I feel like I'm living with your cowl tag in my head…
Sorry if maybe I have been repeating…
If the numbers 1, 4, 6, and (maybe) 8 indicate a group of accessories according to the Los Angeles codes:
The 1 = means 351 = power steering
I have a question for example: where the digit «5» that does mean power brakes your car equipped with?
I am guessing that the codes on the IBM card are not really order codes…
What if the IBM-card is from LA plant, but the codes stamping (punched) on it, are Detroit-built cars…
By another words: the LA-IBM code that printed on the IBM-card does not mean the order codes, while shows the Detroit (punched) order codes?
 (Dave's Dodge 1.jpg)
 (Dave's Dodge 2.jpg)
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Dave's Dodge 1.jpg (205KB - 345 downloads)
Dave's Dodge 2.jpg (168KB - 346 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Robert's IBM-Card shows the codes 381 (or 361) and 385 – here you can install both the power steering and the power brakes…
Just for example what the PS and PB would be…
But you card does not show (punched) the last «5» on any columns - power brakes. (the last column mean the tire size – these are don’t count)
 (Robert's IBM-card.jpg)
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Robert's IBM-card.jpg (222KB - 339 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Powerflite - 2021-02-04 10:07 PM
I don't know, but I suspect that they have nothing to do with the accessories. They probably only cover the parts that directly affect the body configuration. What that is, I'm not sure.
I think so too
frwl - 2021-02-05 11:46 AM
.
Robert's IBM-Card shows the codes 381 (or 361) and 385 – here you can install both the power steering and the power brakes…
Just for example what the PS and PB would be…
But you card does not show (punched) the last «5» on any columns - power brakes. (the last column mean the tire size – these are don’t count)
Because it is standard equipment, it is not a stamped.
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Not true, Robert.
1956 Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto,and Chrysler Windsor - PS and PB - are optional equipment
1956 Chrysler New Yorker and 300 B - the power brakes only
1956 Imperial - PS, PB, Pseat, PW - standart
Since 1957 - Saratoga and New Yorker have power steering as STD (I think as by analogue with GM Buick... ) but the power brakes is not
Since 1959 Saratoga and NY models have PS and PB as STD;
From 1971 all Chryslers including Newport have PS and PB as STD eqipment
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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I do not mention this fact
I do mean that PS and PB (for example) is not a standard equipment for your (Robert's Chrysler Windsor) and on the Dave's Dodge
But your Chrysler has 381 and 385 (MAYBE THESE ARE PS AND PB) codes as optional equipment - YOUR car have these items and their stamped on your IBM-card;
DAve's are NOT - that what I say...
I do this fact - maybe no need to bring it - this is a my step to decoding it (perhaps)
I see that my English very bad, but I still to decode it...
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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I do tell to as: might be codes 381 and 385 means a PS and PB on the Robert's Chrysler
but 351(PS) - is present on the Dave's Dodge (but where the PB - last 5 on it)
LA CODES do not specify to DETROIT CODES but theit codes still stamped (punched) on the LA-codes
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | You're right Igor, sorry. PB is standard in NY. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | I rebuilt my table, actually made a new one. Now all 1956-59 years are in one table, it includes about 70 cars. This shows a few things.
First, it can be seen that the M4 code was not used in 1956. Or it was used so rarely that it does not appear in our examples.
Second, the same M4 code is often used in 1957-59.
Third, in 1957-59, the M8 and M9 codes are not used.
Fourth, the M7 code has never been used.
You can download the table from the attachment.
If you have a 1956-59 car made in LA please share the data tag, IBM card, broadcast sheet. Any help is appreciated.
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56-59 LA tag.xlsx (38KB - 421 downloads)
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Member
Posts: 6
| Hello,
Rarely post on here, just lurk in the shadows....
1958 Coronet club sedan D500, CHP. Still original paint (what’s left of it), doesn’t have evidence of the masking tape on the tag.
Any help decoding would be great, wasn’t able to figure out all of it.
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D01CF57F-F9BB-4721-8C95-59A7034296F9.jpeg (133KB - 364 downloads)
F8316ADD-8579-46F7-9B75-0DA6D30FB84D.jpeg (230KB - 359 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Some of this you might like. Some not so much (maybe)
LD2L = L =1958, D = Dodge 2 = Coronet V8, L = Los Angeles plant
0102 = Scheduled build date = January 2nd 1958 (but it wasn't shipped until Feb 3rd, 1958)(??)
331 = 3 = Dodge, 3= Coronet V8, 1 = Club Sedan (2dr post)
PT = 999 = Special paint (maybe like all black body with white doors??)
Trim = 123 = Coronet black and white
293 (on the IBM card) = Torqueflite
501 (on the IBM card) = Undercoating (which might be the M5 1 on the cowl data tag)
Now for the "troubling" part (maybe):
I see nothing punched in column 37, e.g. for dual exhaust or D-500.
That said there is 523 which some* say is D500 (single 4 bbl) (524 = Super D500, 2 x 4bbl)
*LancerMike's excellent 58 Dodge Excel spreadsheet
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-02-10 2:42 AM
 (58DodgeCHPD500CowlTag.jpg)
 (58DodgeCHPD500IBMCard_small.jpg)
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58DodgeCHPD500CowlTag.jpg (124KB - 337 downloads)
58DodgeCHPD500IBMCard_small.jpg (240KB - 355 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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It seems like M5 = 1 = 501 = UNDERCOATING when compared to the cowl tags and IBM-cards posted above.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | That does seem like it is the proper indication. My car agrees with that as well, as it does have undercoating on it.
Then we can conclude from my car and the green 4dr hardtop that,
Torqueflite, Radio Accessory group, Deluxe appearance group, Power steering, Power brakes - none of these things are included on the body tag. |
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Thanks Nathan!
What about UNDERHOOD PAD option on your car?
As a usually this item came with UNDERCOATING...
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Dan (HR738) thanks for sharing, your dealer 54613 is John Drew Motors, Sacramento, CA
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So it looks like it trans, heater, b-u lights, wipers and as previously mentioned accessory group, mirror, swivel seat, sport tone is not printed on the tag M codes.
EDIT: I should refresh thread before posting a comment
as Nathan says also PB and PS is not printed on the tag. So what is printed on the tag, we will have nothing left in a moment
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You can download updated table, now almost 90 cars (thanks again Igor!) from the attachment
Edited by RDP 2021-02-10 12:10 PM
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56-59 LA tag.xlsx (40KB - 335 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 341
Location: Wisconsin | I have at least one, if not a couple, '56 DeSotos built in LA that I have pairings of data plates and build cards from FCA, as well as a build sheet found behind the back seat like was earlier posted (which I had never seen before until this car). Even better, I know what options these cars had originally. I'll try to post them if I get a chance. I have to do some scanning of paper documents to put together one or more sets.
Dave (56D500boy) - I haven't forgotten about your email request on info for the LA cars. I have just been so busy with work, building up the National DeSoto Club website (I am the new webmaster as of last August), planning the upcoming convention, and working on my cars that it's hard to find time to compile all the work I have on the '56 DeSoto LA cars into a format that is concise and easy to understand. |
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Location: The Mile High City | That said there is 523 which some* say is D500 (single 4 bbl) (524 = Super D500, 2 x 4bbl) *LancerMike's excellent 58 Dodge Excel spreadsheet Thanks, Dave! The spreadsheet I put together was only applicable to the Detroit cowl tag. On the Detroit (Hamtramck) cowl tag, a number three in the 24th position indicates a D-500, but the code "523" does not translate to the option codes, punch card, or the broadcast sheet as a D-500 - it just happens to be under a 5 and a 2. Dan's punch card has the motor number as 360 which may be the L360 - an indication of a 1958 D-500 361 cid engine.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2021-02-11 3:55 AM
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Member
Posts: 6
| Mike and Dave,
The engine is a 361, and the engine number matches the IBM card. Was the 361 available without it being a D500? If not, I wonder if the D500 was somehow incorporated into the CHP special order number? Thanks!
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | HR738 - 2021-02-11 5:41 AM
The engine is a 361, and the engine number matches the IBM card. Was the 361 available without it being a D500? If not, I wonder if the D500 was somehow incorporated into the CHP special order number?
I think that the only 361s in 1958 were the D-500 four bbl and the Super D-500 2 x 4 bbl. The next smaller engine was the 350. See below:
REFERENCE:
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Dodge/1958%20Dodge/1958%20...
Edited by 56D500boy 2021-02-11 10:54 AM
 (58DodgeEngineOptions.jpg)
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58DodgeEngineOptions.jpg (213KB - 341 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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The 24th position on the Detroit Hamtramck cowl tag translates POWER PLANT:
523 = Sales Code 373 = V8 361CID 4BBL 305HP (Dodge D500 – Standard on DeSoto Fireflite)
524 = Sales Code 374 = V8 361CID 2/4BBL 320HP (Dodge Super D500)
525 = Sales Code 375 = V8 361CID EFI 333HP
Correct me if I’m wrong
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | here are some examples and an attempt to understand the M code stamping system
first example: 57 Windsor
power steering - standard on New Yorker and Saratoga, optional on Windsor
power brakes - optional on all
the only one stamped is M5 = 1
We previously agreed that M5 = 1 is undercoating.
So it follows that the remaining IBM codes are not stamped on the tag ( accessories, power brakes, power steering, padded dash, mirror, solex).
Surprisingly, solex is not shown on the tag.
 (57-1a.JPG)
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57-1a.JPG (68KB - 351 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | second example (double): 58 Dodges
power steering and power brakes - optional on all
"A" card - no digit in the undercoating IBM card- not ordered = M5 code blank
other options ordered: power seat, accessories groups, heater, dual exhaust and solex. Solex is showed in the tag SG=3 but in the IBM card is code 7?
Also we see M1-3, M2=3. Is the M2 code it power pack/dual exhaust?
If accessories and heater are not stamped only remains power seat.
M1=3 -> power seat?, probably not as we will see in the third example.
"B" card - the only one stamped is M5 = 1
We previously agreed that M5 = 1 is undercoating.
So it follows that the remaining IBM codes are not stamped on the tag (heater, airfoam seat, back-up lights, wipers).
 (58-1a.JPG)
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58-1a.JPG (150KB - 346 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | third example (double): 59 Dodge and Plymouth
power steering and power brakes - optional on all
"A" card Dodge -
M2=3 match to the power pack, as in the previous example.
EW=4 electic window
M5=1 undercoating
other options ordered: power seat, swivel seat, accessories groups, headlamp dimmer, mirror, hood ornament, solex (not showed in the tag, again!)
"B" card Plymouth -
M2=1 ? power pack? but there is a number 2 on the IBM card
M4=9 toailet seat
M5=1 undercoating
power pack option not shown on the tag?
other options ordered: power steering, power brakes, swivel seat, accessories groups, heater, mirror, radio, padded dash, solex (not showed in the tag, again!)
Edited by RDP 2021-02-13 1:30 AM
 (59-1a.JPG)
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59-1a.JPG (190KB - 368 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | -
What do you think? Is my explanation is correct? Any other ideas or conclusions?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Your train of thought is clear and I think correct (I think so too)
The example about tinted glass 3 (and on the IBM card 7) I think / guess:
1 = 465 = Solex Tinted Glass – Windshield Only
2 = 466 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows
3 = 467 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows and Shaded Windshield (YOUR EXAMPLE)
And further (if there were exist):
4 = 468 =
5 = 469 =
An interesting note about the code M2 = 1 of 1959 Plymouth: there really should be 2, but there is 1 (but as we know it's power steering, not a power package)
Maybe other forum members will add something…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | 3=7 . Maybe, so but why did they change the numbers?
If these are changed, how do you know others are correct. They can all be changed. It's weird.
M2. This is probably not PS. Do you remember Nathan's 57 New Yorker?
M1=4, M2=9. PS is standard in 57 NY. Nevertheless, the code M2 is stamped.
Nathan's 58 Windsor has no PS, but M2=2 but 57 Windsor has M2 blank, M1=4 and comes with optional power steering.
Others example: 58 Dodge M1=3, M2=3 (PS equipped)
M2 is something else, maybe not a power group, but no power steering.
We needed more IBM card-tag sets.
I am trying various variants, but I agree with what Nathan said: "They probably only cover the parts that directly affect the body configuration." |
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Yes, of course – I remember Nathan's ' 57 Chrysler – below is a photo of cowl tag and the car (pictures 1 & 2). This Chrysler has all the solex tinted glass, but the SG space is empty, so I assumed M2 = 9 is an option related to this. In 1957, and only on the Chrysler 2door Hardtops, a new option was introduced – the Large Shaded Rear Window. It could be installed provided that all other glass were tinted. I guessed that M2 = 9 is all solex tinted glass and a large shaded rear window.
For comparison, on pictures 3 and 4 (another Chrysler), column SG = 5, but column M2 is empty: that is, the car does not have a large shaded rear window, but has all the solex tinted glass…
I think that it is not necessary to try to equate all the M codes of different years and divisions together: each brand and each model year should be considered separately…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | When we consider codes together, we have little data, when we consider codes separately, we have almost nothing.
It is obvious that the various years and the brands will be different. But it's still the same factory.
That's the only way to understand the M codes system. Otherwise it's just a guess.
When you look at my table you will see that in 1958-59 SG codes are hardly used (3 vs 42). Meanwhile, in 1957 it was 8 vs 19.
Either they changed something in the production process or considered it irrelevant and didn't stamp it on the tag.
Sometimes I get the feeling that they stamped it quite randomly.
Edit:
Another question.
If the tag has been attached to the body after welding, it does not make sense to marked large / small window. Because there is already a defined hole.
by the way, let's summarize the elements not marked on tags, but marked on cards
accessories, power brakes, power steering, padded dash, mirror, heater, airfoam seat, back-up lights, wipers
So, it can be concluded that the codes do not cover mechanical components, dash components , seats and electrical components except power windows.
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Edited by RDP 2021-02-14 5:07 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | '59 Fury 4d HT with under hood pad option and M5=1
501 undercoating with fiberglass pad under hood - $12,85
no radio, no PB, no PS, no padded dash, with alu sportone inserts, heater, undercoating and two tone paint
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It seems like the padded dash is present...
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Left front fender trim is from the Belvedere series!!!
Some guessing about Fury 4door Hardtop trim codes:
321 = Blue
322 = Green
323 = Tan ???
324 = Red and Gray
325 = Gold ???
I was wrong about padded dash: this one would be like ribbed on the picture below
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | The build sheet come from 56 Plymouth which I found in the net,
unfortunately there was no pic of the data plate.
Below is the reconstructed appearance of the data plate bottom line.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | That's not what my Los Angeles build sheet looked like. Mine was a carbon copy type of sheet with blue lines on it. It was stuck to the undercoating on the floor, under the mat. Lots of numbers and info, but I couldn't read it and didn't have a digital camera to take an easy picture. |
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It might be like this:
SG = 1 = 361 = Solex Tinted Glass
M3 = 4 = 424 = Outer Sun Visor and Roof Drip Moulding
M5 = 6 = 446 = White Plastic Steering Wheel
M8 = 3 = 353 = Powerflite Transmission
M9 = 8 = Delivery Route
All other items did not stamp…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Powerflite - 2021-03-03 10:17 PM
That's not what my Los Angeles build sheet looked like. Mine was a carbon copy type of sheet with blue lines on it. It was stuck to the undercoating on the floor, under the mat. Lots of numbers and info, but I couldn't read it and didn't have a digital camera to take an easy picture.
Nathan, maybe you found the car production broadcast sheet. It contained more information.
They used several different papers in the production process; IBM card, car production broadcast, built sheet like the one above and maybe something else we don't know.
Plymouth built sheet is the same as mine. It is also carbon copy type. Perforated tape is missing on both sides, and there is only one card.
My sheet has four or five copies. It is very fragile and pages are hard to count. This is the one shown by Igor on the first page of this thread.
frwl - 2021-03-05 6:42 PM
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It might be like this:
SG = 1 = 361 = Solex Tinted Glass
M3 = 4 = 424 = Outer Sun Visor and Roof Drip Moulding
M5 = 6 = 446 = White Plastic Steering Wheel
M8 = 3 = 353 = Powerflite Transmission
M9 = 8 = Delivery Route
All other items did not stamp…
It is possible, I would like to see the original plate.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2021-03-06 7:34 AM
Nathan, maybe you found the car production broadcast sheet. It contained more information.
They used several different papers in the production process; IBM card, car production broadcast, built sheet like the one above and maybe something else we don't know.
Plymouth built sheet is the same as mine. It is also carbon copy type. Perforated tape is missing on both sides, and there is only one card.
My sheet has four or five copies. It is very fragile and pages are hard to count. This is the one shown by Igor on the first page of this thread.
This one
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | 1956 Windsor 4d sedan, PF, PS, PB, heater, w. washer
 (1956 Chrysler Windsor 4 door (4).jpg)
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Robert - Thanks for posting!
Cannot see M9 space number...
I have guessed earlier about M8=8 (for the '56 Windsor Powerflite) and M8=4 (for '56 New Yorker)
It seems that is not showing availability of an Automatic Transmission - I was wrong...Now I have no idea what is that...
Your car have same options except M8=4 (and M9 which is unviewalable...)
But the windshield washer is present on your car too...
Can you find out more complete equipment listing of this car?
By the way: what is the upholstery code 090?
The '56 Windsor Sedans have not it...
Same question to the Paint Code 261... Is that CROCUS YELLOW? Is that Spring Special model? (but SCHED space shows 0627 - June 27, 1956...)
Or is it a trick question?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-03-18 12:01 PM
Can you find out more complete equipment listing of this car?
It will be hard to do...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Chrysler-Windsor-4-door-hard-top/31345...
frwl - 2021-03-18 12:01 PM
By the way: what is the upholstery code 090?
The '56 Windsor Sedans have not it...
Same question to the Paint Code 261... Is that CROCUS YELLOW? Is that Spring Special model? (but SCHED space shows 0627 - June 27, 1956...)
I recently bought an upholstery book, but it was lost in shipping  |
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Hello Robert – a little idea for decoding M8=8:
Your cowl tag shows M8=8 and M9=8;
Your IBM card shows two EIGHTS: 428 and alone 8 in the end of the row on the back side;
The codes 42x on the IBM card describes the MOULDING PACKAGES;
Supposedly, that the last 8 is a delivery route, the code 428 might be say to us about of some exterior appointments…
The 1956 Chrysler Windsor has had the next EXTRA COST exterior appointments (according to the specifications):
Windshield Upper Molding
Drip Rail Roof Molding
Front Bumper Guards
Left Outside Rear View Mirror
Rear License Plate Frame
Exhaust Pipe Extension
Chrome Roof Plate (which located on the C-pillar – Sedan only, I think)
You said what your car HAS NOT equipped with first four positions of these:
Windshield Upper Molding
Drip Rail Roof Molding
Front Bumper Guards
Left Outside Rear View Mirror
If so, I just wonder: what could it be on the Crocus Yellow Sedan that cowl tag you posted above?
I mean your M8=8 code vs. M8=4 on that car?
It might be Sun Cap Visor (I see a strip of the dirt on the edge above the windshield – the moulding has been removing);
Or a Front Bumper Guards…
By the way according to the ’56 specifications they should be ordered altogether only: sun cap visor, drip rail moulding and C-pillar chrome plate)…
Other question remains: what the EXTRA exterior appointments has been installed on your car from ’56 specs?
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Like thise one?
Oh, it is very expensive...
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-03-20 7:58 PM
.
Like thise one?
Oh, it is very expensive...
yes
frwl - 2021-03-20 7:48 PM
Other question remains: what the EXTRA exterior appointments has been installed on your car from ’56 specs?
nothing, standard trim only
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-03-05 6:42 PM
.
It might be like this:
SG = 1 = 361 = Solex Tinted Glass
M3 = 4 = 424 = Outer Sun Visor and Roof Drip Moulding
M5 = 6 = 446 = White Plastic Steering Wheel
M8 = 3 = 353 = Powerflite Transmission
M9 = 8 = Delivery Route
All other items did not stamp…
Let's consider the M8 column. You said M8 = powerflite. What we see, when we check Dodge and Plymouth. All plates show 3, except one showing 2. Unfortunately, information on this car is not available. This neither confirms nor deny. But let's check the Chrysler and DeSoto. All Chrysler plates shows 4, except one showing 8. For New Yorkers PF is standard, but second Windsor also show 4 and and comes with PF. Also all DeSoto's are equipped with PF but one shows 3 on the tag. Conclusion? M8 probably does not mean trans.
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And the M1 = 2 as well...
I've never seen the code M1 = 2;
M1 = 5, M1 = 7, and M1 = 8 ONLY... Besides the next codes (1, 4, 6, 9) in the column 35x are present in the IBM card, but not stamped on the cowl tag...
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Posts: 1889
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Maybe M8 = 2 means the Manual Transmission with Overdrive?
M8 = 1 = 3speed Manual Transmission
M8 = 2 = 3speed Manual Transmission with Overdrive
M8 = 3 = 2speed Automatic Transmission Powerflite
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Another '56 Chrysler sheet, St. Regis
ALCOHOL GRP B ???????
 (56NY.JPG)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 341
Location: Wisconsin | Disclaimer: I have only studied the '56 DeSotos and cannot comment on similarities or cross-references to other makes from the LA plant.
I finally got around to scanning in the documentation for one of my LA cars. As you can see, I have a lot for this car. This is a '56 DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman 2 door hardtop. Mostly white with an iridescent green sweep and roof. It has trumpet horn, standard radio/antenna, tinted (Solex) glass, power seat, power windows, and the optional all-leather interior. I have decoded the car to the best of my ability. Based on many '56 DeSotos I have information for, I have a good idea of what each of the top-line codes mean, which may or may not mean the same as other makes. I have seen discussions indicating that SG-1 = Solex Glass. On the Detroit DeSotos, this I have found to be true. However, on the LA DeSotos I believe that SG is the Accessory Group code. You'll note that this car has no number under SG but it does have Solex glass all around, which supports my theory.
Here is my current best guess at what the top-line codes mean on an LA-built '56 DeSoto. This is based on looking at a number of different cars. What I need to do at some point is sit down with all the data I have and basically try to disprove my theory to see if it's correct.
SG = Accessory Group
EW = Electric Window Lifts
M1 = ?
M2 = Air Conditioning
M3 = Suncap Visor (standard on Sportsman models)
M4 = ?
M5 = Power Seat
M6 = Color Sweep
M7 = ?
M8 = Power Brakes (standard on Fireflite, but note that it's always coded on Detroit cars)
M9 = Power Steering (standard on Fireflite)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
Location: Southwest VA | Here the tag from my LA built '59 Fury 4-door hardtop.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | jpmopar - 2021-04-22 6:16 AM
Here the tag from my LA built '59 Fury 4-door hardtop.
Thanks Jim, I know your tag. It would be nice to see IBM card (I remember, you don't have it) |
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Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Fireflite56 - 2021-04-21 10:47 PM
I finally got around to scanning in the documentation for one of my LA cars. As you can see, I have a lot for this car. This is a '56 DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman 2 door hardtop.
Thanks for sharing, David. These are very good documents. Your information and theory are very interesting.
It takes a lot of these kits to draw conclusions, but we keep trying
I noticed that the sheet is missing the code 1 for IBM card .
I am also interested in the letter "S".
It also appears in 56 Chrysler sheet, which I showed yesterday, and 56 Plymouth showed earlier. But it's not in my sheet.
Edited by RDP 2021-04-22 1:23 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU |
From the Plymouth codes it can be said that:
345 -
362 -
366 - electric windows 2 door
383 - airfoam front & rear seat
385 -
391 - accessory group
405 -
412 -
424 - trim package
447 - deluxe steering wheel
But that's just guesswork!
If the sheet codes correspond directly to the data plate codes , it looks like this (but I have doubts).
Edited by RDP 2021-04-22 1:28 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | RDP - 2021-04-21 11:22 AM
Another '56 Chrysler sheet, St. Regis
ALCOHOL GRP B ???????
The ALCOHOL GRP B means that you have to be drunk with 'ALCOHOL', 'GR'ade "P" Plastered, 'B'efore you can understand the reasoning behind these things. |
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David (aka Fireflite 56):
All Forwardlook 1955-1961 DeSotos have not Power Steering and Power Brakes as Standard Equipment EXCEPT:
Only 1956, 1957, 1958 Adventurers have Power Brakes as standard;
Only one season of 1959 model year Fireflites and Adventurers have Power Steering and Power Brakes both as standard;
You may check this fact in every year DeSoto brochure
For example: This ’56 DeSoto has Power Seat, but the space M5 is empty (by the way it has not Power Steering)
Look at this thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67614&...
But it has a Power Brakes and M8=4 (although I’m not sure about this because all power brakes option should have ended on 5)
Anyway – thank for this interesting article
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Robert: you mean 362 – Power Windows instead 366… |
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Robert: it is very interesting sheet;
Difference between your car (385) and that car (387) might be a Radio (with or without Rear Speaker);
And your code 428 vs code 423 of this car… plus codes 451 and 469 on yours…
So, what we have:
M8 = 8 (428) – Your car
M8 = 4 (424) – Dieter’s Car
M8 = 3 (423) – Alcohol Car
Maybe Alcohol Group includes Antifreeze and non-freezing Windshield Washer fluid?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | I would like to see data tag "alcohol car"
frwl - 2021-04-23 3:50 PM
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Robert: you mean 362 – Power Windows instead 366…
361-362 solex glass / e-z vision group
Edited by RDP 2021-04-23 3:34 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Where these codes are from?
1956 Plymouth codes do not have these
Very interesting know all listing, please
You know my PM;
Thanks in advance
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | '59 Plymouth Sport Fury, solex, padded dash, DeLuxe steering wheel,power steering, power brakes, swivel seat, flittesweep deck, 361 4-barrel, radio, clock
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M5 = 1 means Undercoating – we knew
The next items are standard equipment on the Sport Fury and do not specify:
431 = Padded Dash
371 = Deluxe Steering Wheel
361 = Swivel Seats
309 = Flite Sweep Deck Lid (M4 = 9 is empty)
Optional Golden Commando Engine has code 373 and ends on the «3» - cannot see
Is that Radio 441? I guess not…
Looks like M2 = 1 means a Power Steering, as we knew it early…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-05-23 12:17 PM
Looks like M2 = 1 means a Power Steering, as we knew it early…
Probably yes, cars number 100 and 103 are not equipped with PS. M2 is empty.
There is no information about three cars, others cars have PS.
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Do you have some information about Solex Glass on the car number 101 from you table?
Is this tinted windshield only, all windows or all windows with shaded windshield together?
Are the cars 95, 102 and 103 station wagons?
Thanks
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | M1 - 8 = manual tailgate or/with outside spare tire 2-seat wagon
the table is attached
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56-59 LA tag.xlsx (50KB - 261 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | RDP - 2021-03-18 6:08 PM
frwl - 2021-03-18 12:01 PM
By the way: what is the upholstery code 090?
The '56 Windsor Sedans have not it...
Same question to the Paint Code 261... Is that CROCUS YELLOW? Is that Spring Special model? (but SCHED space shows 0627 - June 27, 1956...)
I recently bought an upholstery book, but it was lost in shipping :wince:
I bought another book. This time it has arrived.
I am happy because the price was very reasonable and all samples are in perfect condition. Only the cover is a bit faded.
Unfortunately, the book does not contain codes for Spring Special cars.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=76325
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Here it is. I found this page in the net.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1956-chrysler-windsor-color-1...
So, there were four Spring Special color combinations and only one Copperglow / Black upholstery offered with each of them. Unfortunately no trim code on it. We also have a cowl tag with Spring Special paint code 261 and trim 090; I would guess this trim 090 is Spring Special trim too…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Here is a picture of the 57 Dodge cowl tag posted in this thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=76842&...
The sequence number caught my attention. I remember that number. Some time ago I got it from Igor (frwl).
Unfortunately, there was no photo, only the numbers.
Both cars have the same sequence number! Obviously, they have a different scheduled date.
After all, it's an amazing coincidence to see something like this, with very few number of known tags.
If you want, you can see the numbers from all we know LA tags in attached table.
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56-59 LA tag.xlsx (51KB - 144 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 650
Location: Finland | Interesting.
One thing I haven`t observed until now is that at least LA built cars seem all to have had a strip of masking tape on the body plate during painting.
This of course is because the readability of the plate is low when the plate is freshly painted. |
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Hello Robert!
Visible options from Dieter’s Chrysler:
1956 Chrysler New Yorker Accessory Group No. 3 – Custom
Custom Steering Wheel – Yes
White Side Wall Tires – Yes
Rear License Plate Frame – can’t see
Prismatic Mirror – can’t see
1956 Chrysler New Yorker Accessory Group No. 5 – Convenience
Vanity Mirror – can’t see
Solex Tinted Glass – Yes
Left Outside Rear View Mirror – Yes
From Dieter’s Chrysler IBM card: Could the codes 453 and 455 be an Accessory Groups?
BTW: You told that your car has Safety Group No. 1 and your IBM card has code 451 on it...
 (Dieter's Car.jpg)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2022-01-03 3:44 PM
BTW: You told that your car has Safety Group No. 1
I think so because my car has all stuff of this group. This is the only reason. I have no other evidence to support my guess.
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Below, the cowl tag from Igor that I talked about in the previous post.
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Elite Veteran
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Location: PL / EU | 22mafeja - 2022-01-03 6:49 AM
Interesting.
One thing I haven`t observed until now is that at least LA built cars seem all to have had a strip of masking tape on the body plate during painting.
This of course is because the readability of the plate is low when the plate is freshly painted.
Yes, each plate has a strip of masking tape,
but it might as well have been something stuck to it, e.g. construction sheet. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | 22mafeja - 2022-01-02 9:49 PM Interesting. One thing I haven`t observed until now is that at least LA built cars seem all to have had a strip of masking tape on the body plate during painting. This of course is because the readability of the plate is low when the plate is freshly painted.
Ralf: The tape thing was observed years ago and noted by Neil Vedder (D500Neil). He suggested that the tape was used to hold the build sheet to the cowl as it went down the line. (I don't think that he suggestion was ever confirmed by anyone but it sounds reasonable). Neil is no longer with us (RIP) and I don't think that he shared any documentation so.....
Every LA cowl tag, including my cars, has that sign that there was some tape there (for whatever reason):
Mine:
Some others:
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 650
Location: Finland | Well that is possible. But I don`t think so because the tape strip is always on the center row where the paint and trim etc info is. If the plate was used just to put the build sheet
on, the strip would have been more randomly placed. And it clearly has been on during final paint so in that case the build sheet would also have been paint.
Edited by 22mafeja 2022-01-05 1:37 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | another LA built 1956 Dodge
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
So in terms of the LA specific codes we see SG 1 (which I think is the Solex Glass), M1-5, M2-4, m8-3 and M9-8
Do you know the meaning of those M codes?
In terms of the other codes
01 12 = January 12, 1956 Scheduled build date,
Model D63-1 = Coronet
BT = Body Type 816 = V8, 2dr hardtop
PT = Paint = 169 = Garnet metallic upper and Chinese Rose Lower
TR = Trim = 531 = Patterned Jacquard Weave Fabric with Cordagrain Seat Back and Deluxe Door Trim – Black and White
So what about the M codes?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Oh, the two door Coronet Lancer with PF and delivered by railroad!
Looks like no power steering, but it has power brakes (M1 = 5);
The Basic Group is present (SG = 1);
The M2 = 4 is something, that not included in other accessory groups (Convenience and Appearance)…
Maybe it is a rain shields 364? Or windshield washer 394 – it is a separate option…
Nope! Dave’s car has windshield washer but his cowl tag column M2 is empty…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2022-01-16 9:34 AM
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Nathan bought same ’56 Belvedere 2 Door Hardtop in 2020, and posted the picture of cowl tag, with some my guessing and his confirmations. Here the link:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=74478&...
I’ll try to help you to decode M-codes with comparison of Nathan’s cowl tag codes and hope your feedback about it.
So, SG1
As noticed Dave above, it is Solex Tinted Glass (order code 361 ) that you confirmed; OR it is might be an Special Group (Accessory Group #1 ) that included: Rain Shield, Cigar Lighter, Wheel Covers, Directional Signals and Glove Box Lock. Do you have any option of these?
M3 = 4
I guess that is a Roof Rail Drip Molding and Windshield Upper Molding (order code 424 ) that present on Nathan’s car also – see picture below. Fury has Drip Molding as standard, while Windshield Molding was optional on both. Do you have these items on your car?
M5 = 5
Initially I guess it is Deluxe Steering Wheel (5 = code 445 means Black, 6 = 446 means White ). Nathan’s car has Black Deluxe Steering Wheel, but column M5 is empty. It also might be an Accessory Group #5 that consists Accessory Groups #1 and #3 both. Besides AG#1 items listed above, the group #3 includes Back Up Lights, Windshield Washers and Variable Speed Windshield Wiper; Do you have these? BUT you told your cars has Power Brakes (code 365 ), so I guess M5 code deciphering it. Nathan’s car has not power brakes and M5 is empty.
M6 = 1
I guessed and Nathan confirmed the Electric Clock in his car – see picture below. Do you have a clock on the dash?
M8 = 2
It is very interesting and most discussed item! We (me, Dave and Robert ) have very big discussion about it; all 100% cowl tags we have seen have M8 = 3 codes with no alternative. Only one Robert posted ’56 Dodge tag with M8 = 2 with no comments about car which has it. Your tag is a second. Since beginning of our discussion I have assumed this is Transmission. You told your car has Manual Transmission with Overdrive, so I guess M8 = 2 (code 352 ) mean it definitely. Nathan’s car equipped with Powerflite Automatic Transmission and his M8 = 3 (code 353 ). DAVE, ROBERT WHAT DO YOU THINK?
M9 = 3
A Delivery Route from factory to dealer. I see 1, 2, 3, 4, and 8 in this box. The 8 is delivered by Rail. No idea what route is «3».
Hope this will help somehow, and I will wait for your feedback to my questions.
I will bring some of the discussion over here so as not to clutter up the GaryS thread. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=76902&...
(SG) I think the SG is not an accessory group, only 4 of the 30 cars are not stamped there.
(M9) I also saw route 5. It was on the invoice, not on the body tag. 8 is the highest number I've ever seen. Presumably there are numbers 6 and 7 as well, but I have never seen them.
(M5) not sure if M5 = 1 is a clock. Each Belv in the table has M1 = 5 (only one clock is confirmed), and this is paired with SG = 1 (maybe it has nothing to do with)
(M8) There are more interesting cases at M8:
- all Chryslers have M8=4, but one M8=8
- all De Sotos have M8=4, but one M8=3
- all Dodges have M8=3, but one M8=2
and now all Plymouths have M8=3, but one M8=2
M8 is stamped for everyone. About those exceptional Desoto and Dodge I don't have any info except data tag,
but my Windsor has the same gearbox as the one with the M8 = 4.
Your theory seems to explain well Garys Plymouth, but I also see shortcomings.
Edited by RDP 2022-01-16 9:09 AM
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Expert
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Another attempt to understand the codes of Chrysler 1956. Not suitable for Plymouth, Dodge and DeSoto.
The codes of Robert's car must contain codes ending in 1 and 5 - power steering and brakes - options on Windsor. From this it is concluded that these may be nearby codes 381 and 385. The power steering is also installed on Dieter's car (an option on the New Yorker, while the power brakes are standard), but there is no code 381, but at the same time both Robert and Dieter have code 361, originally adopted as solex tinted glass. Therefore, it can be assumed that the power steering has the code 361, and the power brakes have the code 385. This theory is also facilitated by the comparison of Chrysler codes with Plymouth codes: 361 and 385 vs. 351 and 365, respectively, only shifted by tens. It remains to accept that tinted glasses are code 381 - because they should end with 1. Dieter's New Yorker is also equipped with tinted glass, but he does not have such a code. However, there is a code 455, presumably also affixed to the cowl tag: SG = 5, and probably designating an accessory group #5, which includes solex tinted glass, a left outside mirror and a vanity mirror, which can be seen in the photo. In addition to the 455 code, Dieter also has a 453 code, also presumably an accessory group #3. This includes white sidewalls tires, a rear license plate frame, a plastic steering wheel and a prismatic mirror. The M3 = 5 code present on the plate probably indicates one of the last two accessories, which is unlikely, but the reliable code of the prismatic mirror is unknown (Plymouth deluxe steering wheel has code 455). From this it can be assumed that the group of accessories 5 is affixed both on the tag and in the assembly sheet, the group of accessories 3 is only in the sheet, but some accessory from it occupies the M3 column (in this case, the steering wheel or mirror).
There was an idea that SG = 1 is just tinted windows, and SG = 5 are the same, but included in the accessories group (Windsor has "4" and New Yorker has "5"), but there is one car with tinted windows and an empty SG column. So SG is a Special (Accessory) Group, not Solex Glass. Thus, there can be only 1, 4 or 5. Unfortunately, the code "3" is not put down, and the remaining Power groups 6 and 7 will occupy either "their" separate columns, or not put down at all. By the way, power steering and brakes (and, for example, DeSoto power seat) as we can see, they are not installed, and only power windows remain, but they are located in the EW column.
The automatic transmission should end in 3, and it probably would have been 353 if the code 354 had not been in Dieter's car. According to the Detroit codes, I assume that this is a radio: 3 - Music Master with rear speakers at Robert, and 4 – without them at Dieter, and the code 344 is probably a heater. Now there is no idea how the transmission is encoded (and whether it is encoded at all).
There is also no clear understanding of the M8 cowl tag codes (3, 4, and 8) and the corresponding ones on the built sheet 423, 424 and 428. Theoretically, these should be the codes of the exterior chrome trim. Chrysler New Yorker does not use any additional exterior trim – only standard, to the maximum. Windsor has additional chrome included in the Custom Accessory Group (probably #2, while New Yorker has this Group #3). The exception may be the side bumper guards. For now we have the following: M8 = 8 - standard Windsor with single side molding and a regular frame for the windshield and rear window; M8 = 4 - Windsor with dual moldings with an upper contour molding over the fins, separating the two tone paint schemes. This also includes windshield upper molding and which is not confirmed, chrome roof rail drip moldings. According to the New Yorker, we have M8 = 3 and M8 = 4, there is no difference; in both cases this is the maximum finish with contour molding. The only hook in the paint code: a car with M8 = 3 has a paint code 305 - this is a New Yorker St. Regis with three-tone paint, and a car with M8 = 4 has a code 407 - New Yorker Newport with two-tone paint. Also, the M8 = 4 has a Windsor Spring Special sedan with a 261 color (also Special Two Tones, with contour molding).
Code M5 = 1 I would like to assume it denoting Undercoating – however, in comparison with Plymouth it has the code 458. Present only on Windsor; the New Yorker has this option as standard. The code 473 can denote tires with white sidewalls (present on both Robert's car and an “Alcoholic” car, and by the way, Dieter does not; probably because they are part of the accessory group #3). M9 is the delivery route, it coincides with the graph and is visible twice on different cars. M9 = 8 is a railway delivery; symbols 2 and 3 also come across, but without explanation.
From top to bottom on the picture below:
Robert’s Car codes
Dieter’s Car codes
Alcoholic Car codes
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Expert
Posts: 1889
| Resume:
344 = Heater
353 = Radio Music Master and Rear Seat Speaker
354 = Radio Music Master
361 = Power Steering
381 = Solex Tinted Glass
385 = Power Brakes
387 =
423 = Exterior Trim Package
424 = Exterior Trim Package
428 = Exterior Trim Package
451 = Accessory Group No. 1
453 = Accessory Group No. 3
455 = Accessory Group No. 5
469 =
473 = White Side Wall Tires
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Wow! You've done a great job. But I would like to take a broader look at it. We agree that column M9 is the delivery code. This is true for all brands. I think the same principle will work for the other columns. Like the M5 column for 1957-59 - this is always undercoating.
You said: "M8 = 8 - standard Windsor with single side molding."
But it's standard, why stamp it? If an option is not selected, it means you have ordered a basic set, right? Again, I don't see any reason to stamp it on the tag.
The M8 column is very interesting, because as the only one it is always stamped. I wonder, maybe is not a equipment code just like M9?
If the SG is an accessory column, it means all Dodge buyers have selected accessory group 1. I have doubts here. Both Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth use SG=1. Chrysler use SG=5 too. Only De Soto is different - uses SG=5 just like Chrysler, but SG=4 rather than SG=1. I think this column will work for all brands as well, just like the EW column. But maybe I'm wrong.
I would like to see the IBM card and tag for the another New Yorker.
What means 357 and 358 codes for 56 Dodge?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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I found this old thread on the forum where one owner has supposed next codes for 1956 Dodge:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23917&...
301 = Solex Tinted Glass
332 = Overdrive Transmission
335 = Heater and Defroster
338 = Music Master Radio
375 = Backup Lights
387 = Wheel Covers not deluxe
414 = Variable Speed Windshield Wipers
441 = Electric Clock
472 = Undercoating
487 = Misc Extra Equipment (?)
494 = Customer Pickup
603 = New Car Service Drive Away
629 = Dealer Fund
017 = Special Order
and
323 = transmission
368 = Dual Exhaust (all, except Wagons)
369 = Dual Exhaust (but Wagons only, all others should be 368)
630 = Special Carburetor (!)
and next quote:
345 Added and 344 Deleted is a running switch to Manual steering (may have initially tried to get power steering and this is not available with the Dual Four Barrel Carburetor Group), unknown codes 314 and 323 (rear axle related), unknown code 359, 369 (probably Dual Four Barrel Carburetor Group), unknown codes 630, 641, 657 (related to special order).
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9900
Location: Lower Mainland BC | frwl - 2022-01-17 1:08 PM .
I found this old thread on the forum where one owner has supposed next codes for 1956 Dodge:
Igor: That is Tim Dupont and his 1956 Detroit-built Dodge D500-1 (with the factory 2 x 4bbls).
I did a complete break down of his IBM card in that thread. But that doesn't matter much because this thread is about LA cowl data tags and Tim's
car was built in Detroit so the codes might be different and do not translate to M1 to M9 codes.
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Link to the thread:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=77093&...
Link to the seller’s pictures:
https://www.streetsideclassics.com/vehicles/3603-cha/1959-desoto-fir...
1959 DeSoto Firesweep Sportsman 2 Door Hardtop
Serial Number M414100541: 1959 (M) DeSoto (4) Firesweep (1) Los Angeles Built (4) 541th Firesweep Built (100541)
SO 0123 = Scheduled on January 23, 1959
NO 4008 = 8th Car Built That Day
MODEL MS1L = 1959 (M) DeSoto (S) Firesweep (1) Low Price Class (L)
BT 412 = DeSoto (4) Firesweep (1) 2 Door Hardtop Sportsman (2)
PT XXX = Paint Pearl White – Single Tone
TR 346 = Red Vinyl and Gray Cloth
M1 = 4 = 314 = Aluminum Sweep Insert
M2 = 5 = 315 = Sill and Lower Deck (Rear Bumper Reveal) Moldings
M3 = 2 = 422 = Roof Molding Package No. 2 – for Sportsman Hardtops (No. 1 = 421 – for Sedans and Station Wagons)
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Member
Posts: 17
| Here is my LA built car.
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Thanks for sharing, Joel!
M3 = 9 = Order Code 419 = Fin End Chrome Inserts
M4 = 9 = Order Code 429 = Rear Quarter Ornaments (Louvers)
M5 = 1 = Order Code 501 = Undercoating and Underhood Pad
SCHED 0430 = Scheduled on April 30, 1959 (Oh, she is going to have a birthday soon…)
NO 5074 = 74th Car built that Day
MODEL MD3H = 1959 (M), Dodge (D), V8 361CID Engine (3), Custom Royal Series – High Price Class (H)
BT 352 = Body Type 352 = Dodge (3), Custom Royal (5), Lancer 2 Door Hardtop (2)
PT XB4 = Paint Deluxe Two Tone = Pearl (White) – Roof, Lower and Fins Colors; Blue Diamond – Upper (Saddle) Color
TR 275 = Blue Vinyl and Blue Nassau Fabric; No Swivel Seats
VEHICLE NO. M354*101681, where:
M = 1959 Model Year
3 = Dodge Division
5 = Custom Royal Series Model
4 = Los Angeles, California Assembly Plant
101681 = Consecutive Unit Number, starting 100001 and up…
Could you post the pictures of your car, please?
Have you a Broadcast Sheet (Build Card)?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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The paint should be looking like this;
And the trim like that, except a swiveling seats...
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Sorry; this is correct paint:
White Roof, White Fins, White Lower Color and Light Blue Saddle...
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Member
Posts: 17
| I will post some more photos later of the interior but here is one to show you what I'm driving right now.
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Member
Posts: 17
| I don't have the build sheet. I looked all over the car and was unable to find one. I have an email into Chrysler Historical like some members have recommended, so we will see what they can provide me.
My car does have under coating, and looks like it had some kind of insulation that must have came out at some point. Any pictures of what that insulation install would look like?
My car has the louver trim on the quarters and chrome fin inserts.
My car has the original interior
It is a pretty low mile car that was garaged most of it's life.(barn). It was purchased new in Oakland, Ca and lived in San Leandro/Hayward CA.
Edited by Jdv 2022-04-23 6:13 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Wow…
I see some options:
Hood ornament 408
Twin o/s mirrors 401 and 403 (does the left mirror have remote control 402?),
Solex tinted glass – all around 466,
Rear quarter stone shields 359,
Dual antennas 333…
Here a couple pictures of under hood pad;
Not sure which of those are factory installed...
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Member
Posts: 17
| It has the remote adjustment on the driver mirror. Here are a couple more pictures of the car.
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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So,
Radio
Heater
Inside Glare Proof Mirror (non-Mirror Matic)
Electric Clock
Safety Cushion Dash Panel
Two Tone Steering Wheel (can’t see the power steering script on it)
Power Brakes
Hand Brake Flasher
Windshield Washer Bag
According to the pictures you posted, the car has equipped with almost every Accessory Groups 312, 314, 315, 317 and 318;
Rear Seat Speaker and Left Remote Control Mirror were a separate options;
By the way: Is it factory-installed mirror? The push button mirror control should be located just below the transmission control… or not?
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Member
Posts: 17
| Thank you for all the information. The mirror remote is mounted on a chrome bracket under the dash next to the emergency brake light. I posted a picture of the location. Any other pictures you want to see? |
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Expert
Posts: 1889
| Jdv - 2022-04-24 10:29 AM
Thank you for all the information. The mirror remote is mounted on a chrome bracket under the dash next to the emergency brake light. I posted a picture of the location. Any other pictures you want to see?
Glad to help.
I would like to see an engine bay full picture and the Chrysler Historical reply when you got it…
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Member
Posts: 17
| Engine bay pictures. We will see what information I get back. I just sent the email a couple of days ago
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Member
Posts: 17
| On the ornamental group. Do you know what the rear license plate frame is?
Edited by Jdv 2022-04-25 11:55 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Hello Joel; thanks for the engine bay pictures.
Unfortunately, I do not know what the rear license plate is. I guess it's just a chromed frame with MOPAR or Dodge logo.
Looks like your car doesn't have the ornamental group 318. It is equipped only with chrome fin end inserts and dual rear fender antennas as separate options that included in this group, but there is no license plate frame. Otherwise, the M3 slot on your cowl tag would have the number 8, not 9; i.e. M3 = 8, as in the picture below.
So, I guess
M3 = 8 = order code 318 = Fin End Chrome Inserts, Dual Rear Antennas, Rear License Plate Frame – Accessory Group #318
M3 = 9 = order code 419 = Fin End Chrome Inserts Only…
BTW, the column M2 = 3 (order code 373) on the cowl tag I posted means D500 option…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | another LA built '57 Plymouth
https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1957-plymouth-savoy-791213
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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We had discussion about SG4 code here:
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=76945&...
A guessing about SG4 = Accessory Group #4 did not confirm;
All options included in accessory group 178 (as a part of group 174) are present on that car:
Wheel Covers
Rear Quarter Stone Shields
Inside Prismatic Mirror
Cigar Lighter
Glove Box Lock
If we look closer on the 1957 Plymouth order code sheet, there are a couple codes added – written by hand above codes 178, and 172 – 311 and 312 respectively.
I highlighted them by red. It might be replaced accessory group codes. If so, the “old” code 178 was replaced on “new” code 311, while the next code 172 to the code 312.
According to the pictures, these options (code 178 or code 311) are present on the car posted by Robert as well:
Wheel Covers
Rear Quarter Stone Shields
Inside Prismatic Mirror
Cigar Lighter
Glove Box Lock
Maybe the cowl tag code M2 = 1 deciphering as Accessory Group 311, while a SG4 = 394 just a Solex Glass…
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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311, 312 and 313 are not “new” Accessory Group Codes; these are Los Angeles-built Codes!!!
So, 1957 Plymouth:
Detroit Plant Accessory Groups 178, 172 and 173 are correspond to the Los Angeles Plant Accessory Groups 311, 312 and 313:
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Member
Posts: 17
| I received a scan of the build card back for my 59 dodge. It's the blue car a few posts up this page. |
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Member
Posts: 17
| I received a scan of the build card back for my 59 dodge. It's the blue car a few posts up this page.
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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13 = 8.00 x 14 White Side Wall Tires – 4 Ply
293 = Transmission – 3 Speed Automatic Torqueflite
312 = Accessory Group 312 – see below
314 = Accessory Group 314 – see below
316 = Accessory Group 316 – see below
317 = Accessory Group 317 – see below
408 = Hood Ornament
419 = Fin End Chrome Inserts - - - M3 = 9 on the cowl tag
429 = Rear Quarter Ornaments – Chevrons - - - M4 = 9 on the cowl tag
466 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows
501 = Undercoating and Underhood Pad - - - M5 = 1 on the cowl tag
533 = Rear Axle Ratio 3.31 to 1
607 = Antifreeze
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Jdv - 2022-07-09 10:35 AM
I received a scan of the build card back for my 59 dodge. It's the blue car a few posts up this page.
Thanks for sharing, can you tell dealer name ? |
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Member
Posts: 17
| Email from Historical said J.E. French Company was the dealer in San Francisco, but I believe the original owner bought it from their Oakland dealer. The original frames are still on the car. Also, here is another try at the build sheet without that info. Box in the way
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | Thanks Joel! I have codes for two other locations - Oakland and Berkeley,
so this is the third code for J.E. French. |
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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1958 Plymouth Custom Suburban
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | We talked about it at the beginning of this thread, but it won't hurt to say it again, that in 1957-59 Los Angeles plant used two slighty different data plates:
first in the 1956 scheme (let's call it scheme 1) - SG EW M1 M2 M3 M4 M5 M6 M7 M8
second in the 1957 scheme (let's call it scheme 2) - SG EW M1 M2 M3 M4 M5 M6 SEQ_NO
More often I see body plates from the scheme 1. Interestingly, the use of scheme 1 or 2 does not depend on the car's production date.
Sometimes the "SEQ NO" field is blank, but sometimes the sequence number is stamped on the scheme 1 plate (in the M6 M7 M8 area).
What a mess.
Why am I talking about this? Because option codes for M7 M8 M9 never occur. Almost…
Here's the ‘59 Plymouth plate. What's interesting about it? I only know three with M6 stamped – ’57 Plymouht M6=1, ’59 Dodge M6=5 and this car.
This is the only plate with the M8 stamped on it. There are also three others with a option code stamp on the SEQ NO line, but anyway, it's rare.
Edited by RDP 2023-01-14 6:12 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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The M6, M7 and M8 codes are seldom occurring because those are station wagon items, I think.
M1 = 8 is a code 328 – Locked Luggage Compartment;
M6 = 5 is a code 305 – Power Tail Gate Window;
I have no idea about M8 = 1; the pictures of this car or an options describing were helpfully for disclosure it.
BTW: what transmission this car equipped with?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Here the picture of six-cylinder 4 Door Deluxe Suburban (174) vs. yours 2 Door Deluxe Suburban V8 (273);
It also came with luggage lock (M8=1) but manual tail gate window (M6 is blank) but M8 option is present: 7 (or 4) – can’t read.
My guessing initially it is a front bumper guards (outer wings, code 357) but I was wrong…
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1048
Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2023-01-14 8:39 PM
The M6, M7 and M8 codes are seldom occurring because those are station wagon items, I think.
you're probably right, I've only seen them on the '58-'59 station wagons, but also on the '57 sedans
frwl - 2023-01-14 8:39 PM
the pictures of this car or an options describing were helpfully for disclosure it.
BTW: what transmission this car equipped with?
three on the tree, 2dr, outside spare tire |
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Thanks for reply, Robert. Did you say “three on tree”? Hmmm….
The M8 = 1 code might be means it – 3 Speed Manual Trans, code 341, like on the ’56 LA-built Dodge cowl tags…
While M8 = 4 code might be means the 3 Speed Manual Trans with Overdrive – code 344…
Can’t identify: does this car have Overdrive?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Sorry, wrong tab – my bad;
’59 Plymouth transmission codes started at 29x, not at 34x
I’ve meant 291 – manual and 294 – overdrive trans…
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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1957 DeSoto Firesweep Sportsman from old thread:
Quote from description from the seller:
Trim tag and all ID tags intact. This is how it decodes: S-27 Firesweep 3146 Sportsman, Paint VLV: V = Spring Special Spanish Gold (roof), L = Frosty White (main body), V = Spring Spanish (lower sweep) all original never repainted. Trim 563 is a Special Beige and Grey cloth, vinyl built in Los Angeles in final 300 of end of production 13,333 produced. There are only 66 of this model accounted for. 325 ci engine push button Torqueflite transmission.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34212&...
Question: might the cowl tag code M4 = 2 be a code 532 = “Sweep Moulding with Colour Insert”?
If so, the single moulding would be coded as 531, and would have M4 = 1 on the cowl tag.
Any confirmation?
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Expert
Posts: 1889
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Continuing the discussion about LA-built ’59 Plymouth data plate “M8” column codes:
M8 – 1 – 311 – Accessory Group No. 1 including:
308 – Electric Clock
359 – Rear Quarter Stone Shields
427 – Glove Box Lock
511 – Wheel Covers
M8 – 7 – 427 – Glove Box Lock Only
It might be so…
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