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Need an opinion on rear spring repair
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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-10-16 1:45 PM (#550388)
Subject: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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Location: Hilltown, PA

I'm looking for some feedback on one of my fall/winter projects.

I want to raise the rear of my 60 just a tad - maybe an inch or two. Not looking to jack it way up, just want to get the car to look more balanced. I've measured the rockers and even though the rockers are pretty close to level, because the car is so massive at the rear, and the side trim angles up from rear to front, the car looks like it's squatting.

The springs were replaced by the previous owner with "restoration quality" assemblies (which from what I've read here he wasn't really happy with from the start) about 8 years ago, so they are in good condition, but have also probably settled as much as they're going to.

I have a local spring guy who can slide a couple of leaves into the spring packs for a few hundred dollars, but that means I have to pull the springs and leave the car sitting for a week or two. My garage is not shop sized, so when I can I like to do these things at work on a lift, with my tools and shop tools at hand.

I also have a parts car. I'm considering taking a leaf or two from that car and doing the changes myself, for three reasons. First, cost. I have the donor springs, and the cost of hardware is not substantial. Second, convenience. If I do it myself I can do it at work, in a day (or two if needed) and avoid working on the floor. And third, control. If I farm it out and don't like it when I get it back I have to re-remove the springs, have a conversation with the spring guy, and hope the second time is right. If I do it myself I can make that assessment as I go, and make any changes before I "finish".

I know the last time I did leaf springs (front of my 01 F350) I had them apart 4 times before I got what I wanted.

So any thoughts - good, bad, or otherwise?

Thanks


Gregg
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-16 1:54 PM (#550390 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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You can always just get the leaves made ahead of time and insert them yourself. But if you want to change the ride height, the best way is to replace the #2 leaf, which is also the hardest to do because it is clamped together to everything else in at least 2 places. If I were you, I would purchase a set of Monroe overload shocks for it and see if that makes a big enough difference that you are happy with it. But realistically, they will only raise the back end by about 1/2 inch or so. If you want more, then I would get a #2 leaf made up that is longer than your original and has a heavier rate to it. Use that one to just replace the one you have on there now.
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57chizler
Posted 2017-10-16 2:00 PM (#550391 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: RE: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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Why not lower the front instead with a torsion bar adjustment?
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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-10-16 4:16 PM (#550396 - in reply to #550391)
Subject: RE: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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Location: Hilltown, PA

The front end already looks a tad low, both visually and looking at the control arm angle and bump stop gaps - I suspect it may have been dropped to reduce the appearance of the negative rake to the rear end. And the oil pan has the wounds to confirm that.

What I was considering was cutting down the main leaves off the parts car to put them in as a new 1st leaf directly under the main leaf on the car. I can get spring clamps and center bolts, and the u-bolts are plenty long enough to add 2 leafs per side.



Gregg
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-16 4:34 PM (#550399 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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You could use a used leaf, but you will get better performance out of a new one. It is worth the money in my opinion, after all the labor that is involved. Also, exchange the long leaf, but I wouldn't add anymore. You don't want to ruin the ride quality. I added 2 leafs to my '56 Plymouth because I needed to tow our camping trailer with it, but it did create a negative effect on the ride quality when it is unloaded. So you want to raise it up without making it more harsh.
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FIN_NV
Posted 2017-10-16 5:44 PM (#550405 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: RE: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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The Desoto in 8 inches wider in the rear, than the front, giving the rear end the appearance its sitting low.




(60 Desoto.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 60 Desoto.jpg (104KB - 118 downloads)
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mstrug
Posted 2017-10-16 6:00 PM (#550409 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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How about some raising blocks?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5-inch-Leaf-Spring-Lift-or-Lowering-Block...

and some longer/strong 'U' bolts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rancho-RS748-Axle-U-Bolt-Kit-Rear-/30249084...
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-10-16 6:04 PM (#550412 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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I used air shocks which allow for adjustment depending on the load - more air, more lift.
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51coronet
Posted 2017-10-16 8:07 PM (#550416 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair


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Air shocks are easy and will lift it plus they aren't really expensive. Downside is they tend to lose pressure so regular maintenance is required unless you get a trick install and have it regulated on a pump when the car is running to keep a certain pressure in them. Then it gets a little pricey but way less maintenance. You could use a regular 12 volt tire pump on a regulated and ignition only switch. Not at all difficult to make such an install work and concealed in the trunk.
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LostDeere59
Posted 2017-10-16 9:25 PM (#550422 - in reply to #550405)
Subject: RE: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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Location: Hilltown, PA

Hi Steve

I agree that the mass that the car carries at the rear makes it look like the tail is dragging, and this is accentuated by the way the rear fenders are so much lower than the front, covering the tire well into the whitewall, almost to the rim in fact. When you add the rising trim line to those two visual clues it really tricks the eye into believing the car is squatting. I get what the original intent of the trim was - to make the car appear as if it is taking off, launching aggressively ahead. Unfortunately when I compare the Desoto to the nearly identical Chrysler which has straight side trim the visual effect is totally different. And doubly unfortunate is that now that I've seen it, I can't un-see it. :P

One day when I had the car at work I brought it in the shop and fooled around with the rear ride height. I had a couple of guys on hand for opinions and tried raising the back end to various ride heights (lifting only the rear of the body). What we found is that about an inch or an inch and a half made the car look more balanced, but any more than that and it just looks catywampus. So I have to be careful to stay in that range.

I did consider the spring overload shocks (I have used them in the past with good results) but when I got a chance to inspect the upper shock mounts I felt that there simply isn't enough strength in the design to feel comfortable putting the load on them. Air shocks fall in the same category. I know some guys are running them successfully, but I'd rather not take the chance.

Spacer blocks would lower the rear of the car as the rear axle is mounted above the springs.

Maybe I'll go back to my spring guy and see if he can make me a long leaf for each side and I'll put them in and see where it ends up.

Thanks for the feedback guys


Gregg

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FIN_NV
Posted 2017-10-16 10:47 PM (#550427 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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I had found a spring shop that would re-arc the springs, for $150. If i didnt think it was high enough, they wouls add a leaf to each side fir $100 more, with them doing the R&R
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60 dart
Posted 2017-10-16 11:52 PM (#550433 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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i've had air shocks on my 60 pioneer for nearly 10 yrs. @ 125lbs of air and new springs last yr. . absolutely no problems , not even with leak off . --------------------------------------------------------later
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-17 12:51 AM (#550437 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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You must be using Gabriels. The Monroe's don't last that long.
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60 dart
Posted 2017-10-17 4:41 AM (#550442 - in reply to #550388)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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i was gonna change em but i couldn't find the same length . so i just repainted em , RED . might of been gabes , but dieing brains cells don't remember . they were white though new ------------------------------------------later

ps got a new set under the work bench thats supposed to fit butttttttttt not
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57chizler
Posted 2017-10-17 2:06 PM (#550477 - in reply to #550416)
Subject: Re: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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51coronet - 2017-10-16 5:07 PM

Air shocks are easy and will lift it plus they aren't really expensive.


It's been noted many times that air shocks place the load of the car on structure that was never intended for that purpose. Of course, anecdotal tales of "I been using them for a gazillion years with no problems" tend to make that meaningless.
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wayfarer
Posted 2017-10-18 11:20 AM (#550544 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: RE: Need an opinion on rear spring repair



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LostDeere59 - 2017-10-16 1:16 PM


The front end already looks a tad low, both visually and looking at the control arm angle and bump stop gaps - I suspect it may have been dropped to reduce the appearance of the negative rake to the rear end. And the oil pan has the wounds to confirm that.

What I was considering was cutting down the main leaves off the parts car to put them in as a new 1st leaf directly under the main leaf on the car. I can get spring clamps and center bolts, and the u-bolts are plenty long enough to add 2 leafs per side.



Gregg


I have done this on many vehicles and it works very well. I would start with just adding one leaf, especially if you are using the main as a second. The basic result is that you are adding capacity to the leaf package so the weight is held higher.
If you find the result to be 'not-quite-enough', and you need to minimize down time, then take the spare second leaf and have it re-arched and replace the 'new' second leaf. If time and space allow then re-arch the 'new' second...but don't go crazy.
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