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Dave's 57 DeSoto Fireflite 4dr hdtp (project) Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Well after many years of languishing on the way, way back burner I've restarted this project. Life and other cars always seemed to get ahead of this one. Well I'm ready to get into it now. Here's a few pics of what I have to work with. I do have everything that's taken off. It's complete with the major exception of the motor and trany. I do have a S25 motor but it is apart and I know missing some parts. No trany, bummer. I do have a full set of floors from a donor car, with power seat troughs. And a new trunk floor. So, yeah I've got my work cut out for me. Although I've seen you guys perform miracles on much, much worse. Edited by macedon 2018-02-26 6:28 PM (rearfloor.JPG) (rearfloor2.JPG) (frontfloor.JPG) (frontfloor2.JPG) (trunk.JPG) (rrrocker.JPG) (passengerdoors.JPG) (driverdoors.JPG) (rearglass.JPG) (dogleg.JPG) (side.JPG) Attachments ---------------- rearfloor.JPG (238KB - 226 downloads) rearfloor2.JPG (143KB - 234 downloads) frontfloor.JPG (160KB - 224 downloads) frontfloor2.JPG (154KB - 225 downloads) trunk.JPG (150KB - 213 downloads) rrrocker.JPG (98KB - 241 downloads) passengerdoors.JPG (132KB - 229 downloads) driverdoors.JPG (110KB - 223 downloads) rearglass.JPG (135KB - 224 downloads) dogleg.JPG (64KB - 215 downloads) side.JPG (76KB - 224 downloads) | ||
KcImperial |
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Expert Posts: 2490 Location: Kansas City, KS | You have waaayy too many projects! I don't know how you ever find the time especially with the level of detail you always accomplish | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Haha. This takes me back to my old Navy days. Been a long time since I had a needle gun in my hands. (needlegun.JPG) Attachments ---------------- needlegun.JPG (253KB - 214 downloads) | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Here's a picture survey after some needle gun time. I knew the floors were toast before I started. What I was really interested in were the edges, specifically the rockers. If any of you that have been down this road care to share any lessons learned or tips I'd be more than happy to listen. Especially any techniques or suggested cut lines. (aftergun1.JPG) (aftergun2.JPG) (aftergun3.JPG) (aftergun4.JPG) (aftergun5.JPG) (aftergun6.JPG) (aftergun7.JPG) (aftergun8.JPG) (aftergun9.JPG) (aftergun10.JPG) (aftergun11.JPG) Attachments ---------------- aftergun1.JPG (139KB - 236 downloads) aftergun2.JPG (172KB - 231 downloads) aftergun3.JPG (145KB - 260 downloads) aftergun4.JPG (142KB - 251 downloads) aftergun5.JPG (155KB - 250 downloads) aftergun6.JPG (148KB - 281 downloads) aftergun7.JPG (140KB - 240 downloads) aftergun8.JPG (144KB - 230 downloads) aftergun9.JPG (142KB - 232 downloads) aftergun10.JPG (160KB - 210 downloads) aftergun11.JPG (174KB - 235 downloads) | ||
firedome |
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Expert Posts: 3155 Location: NY & VT | Wow that is quite the project indeed, due credit for taking it on. When done though you'll have one of the most beautiful 50s cars ever made, 4 dr hardtops are THE best imo. I'd consult with John Big M Fowlie, he's the man for FL bodywork, along with Jan Fridberg in Sweden! | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 |
I did the rockers first and made sure I kept the shape, I cut the outer and then inner. I replaced the inner in two pieces. Do you have inner and outer rockers? Inner rockers and door sill support is fairly easy to make yourself. I got my outers from schott. The facebook guy does make nice inners https://www.facebook.com/RealSteelReplacments/?ref=gs&fref=gs&dti=38054984481&hc_location=group I assume you know dont try to save any of that flooring or trunk, it all has to go. 189$ for premade inners? doesnt seem to bad. Scott outers are like 75$ Edited by mikes2nd 2018-02-27 11:31 PM (189-innerrockers.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 189-innerrockers.jpg (55KB - 240 downloads) | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | No plans to save any of that flooring or trunk. I've got replacement for both. I'll start cutting them out this week | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Figured it wouldn't hurt to take a few measurements before I start cutting. Especially since my replacement floors came from an Imp so I'll need to make some mods. The seat brackets and others as well I'm sure. I think my biggest concern is the condition of the B pillars. I'm REALLY hoping I can do enough to restore without removing them. They look solid, but I'll know more after cutting out the floors. We shall see. (measure.JPG) Attachments ---------------- measure.JPG (186KB - 237 downloads) | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Back side of headliner. I don't think it's too big a leap to assume that 4D stands for four door. (headliner.JPG) Attachments ---------------- headliner.JPG (133KB - 218 downloads) | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | they really needed bar code scanners back in the day but I guess a pencil works also. | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Zoiks! That's a lot of stainless. That will certainly keep me busy polishing. (trim.JPG) Attachments ---------------- trim.JPG (105KB - 218 downloads) | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Still have lots of detail cut work to do yet, but I've got the big chunks out. (trunk cut.JPG) Attachments ---------------- trunk cut.JPG (107KB - 248 downloads) | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | that hurts, the amount of work... uhg | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Ok, so why did they do it this way? In the trunk the two support braces that run fore/aft. Why do they end just short of the transverse piece of metal at the back of the trunk?? Wouldn't it make more sense when I redo that bracket to make it an inch or two longer and then weld it to the back piece? I mean other than a departure from originality that I'm sure I could live with. It just seems that it would be stronger that way. Am I missing something? I looked at my sedan and it's just the same. (end.JPG) Attachments ---------------- end.JPG (81KB - 222 downloads) | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | everything i see on this car was to maximize the use of a spot welder. That piece probably got attached first to the trunk pan and they didn't want to have to worry about returning to it and that tail piece is pretty thick, so they would have gone through 3 pieces. I think it also was already "strong" enough. I doubt they even tested these bodies really for flex/strength to a point. They used "eyeball" engineering to an extent. Youll notice on a 58 they put a quarter panel bracket in the middle of the 2 dr ht wheel well to stop flexing, the fixes they do in the 58 proves they were kind of trial and erroring on certain things. Lets not get into "water leaks" This completely new car was a serious task for Chrysler, they flipped the script but obviously keeping up with demand and the radical changes they put into place had to be a ton of effort. | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | You're spot on about the spot welder use. Sorry for the pun, couldn't resist. I'll be using a wire welder so we'll see how it goes when I rebuild my car. thanks | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | here for example is the quarter panel brace added to the 1958's. They must have seen some flexing in the 57 car bodies. This is 2 door hardtop so i expect the sedans were fine. I will be adding this to my 57... Edited by mikes2nd 2018-03-12 11:44 PM (582doorHTDodgeQuarterBrace.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 582doorHTDodgeQuarterBrace.jpg (199KB - 220 downloads) | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Hey, you guys won't give me any trouble if I tell you I'm going to use some Buick steel for some of my smaller patches. 'cause if you are then I'm not going to tell you. Haha at least it's the correct year. (buick.JPG) Attachments ---------------- buick.JPG (122KB - 212 downloads) | ||
scottbit |
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Veteran Posts: 166 | I would agree with tying the gas tanks supports to the rear trunk cross piece. Most of the cars I have seen were developing stress cracks at that point even if the trunk floors were not rusty. Mike what model of car is your picture from? I have never noticed that brace on any of my cars. In cutting up a lot cars for patch panels I have noticed that the 57 cars seem to have braces at the body mounts in the floor pan at the back of the front seat area, bolt on braces that tie the front cowl to inner rocker and frame, a reinforcement at the front trunk pan body mount that rests on the rubber bumper between it and the frame rail and a full width one piece cross member that goes up over the drive shaft tunnel that were eliminated in the 58's. | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | I have no idea how or why these survived... I am just really grateful they did. (bpillar1.JPG) (bpillar2.JPG) (bpillar3.JPG) Attachments ---------------- bpillar1.JPG (49KB - 214 downloads) bpillar2.JPG (52KB - 218 downloads) bpillar3.JPG (76KB - 212 downloads) | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Progressing slowly. Pulled the heater/evap today. Happy to see the firewall rust isn't too bad (firewalla.JPG) (firewallb.JPG) Attachments ---------------- firewalla.JPG (101KB - 198 downloads) firewallb.JPG (134KB - 216 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9667 Location: So. Cal | macedon - 2018-03-26 7:11 AM I have no idea how or why these survived... I am just really grateful they did. What are those, the center post between the doors maybe? Another addition to '58 in the DeSoto & Chrysler is the addition of long, bolt-on cross braces from the cowl to the inner fenders. | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Powerflite - 2018-05-21 8:48 PM What are those, the center post between the doors maybe? Right. They are the plastic covers for the B pillars | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | I know it will go back together much more slowly... (dashout.JPG) Attachments ---------------- dashout.JPG (148KB - 197 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9667 Location: So. Cal | Removable vent. Your car must be an earlier build. | ||
miquelonbrad |
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Expert Posts: 1737 Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Not necessarily. I did a survey of many 57-58 cars- Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto-Chrysler...and it depended on plant it was built in, A/C, what body came down the line... I did a post on this a while ago. I'll see if I can find it. | ||
miquelonbrad |
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Expert Posts: 1737 Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | BTW, my '57 Fireflite Ambulance has floors like yours...and Flintstone brakes. :D | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9667 Location: So. Cal | Your post on it was my post on it. Yes, it had other factors that influenced it (like A/C of course), but build date was a big factor. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66044&... Edited by Powerflite 2018-05-23 12:43 AM | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | My car is a factory A/C car. Detroit car with a VIN that's right smack in the middle of the range for that year. | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Stuck this in just test the fit. I'm pretty happy with it. Driver's side is on it's way. Hopefully it is just as nice. (rh floor.JPG) Attachments ---------------- rh floor.JPG (67KB - 212 downloads) | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | nice fit! | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Never done this to a car before. Kinda fun. (Clipoff.JPG) (clipoff2.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Clipoff.JPG (86KB - 182 downloads) clipoff2.JPG (91KB - 165 downloads) | ||
57burb |
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Expert Posts: 3967 Location: DFW, TX | ...and kinda scary too, eh? Looking good! | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Day dreaming... my choices in order of preference for the car. Someday I'll get there. Definitely going with the original 543 Westminster Tweed and off white vinyl interior. Car was originally all Frost white. 1) Spice Brown Metallic & Frost White 2) Muscatel Maroon Metallic & Frost White 3) Charcoal Cray Metallic & Frost White Edited by macedon 2018-11-29 11:36 AM (Spice Brown Metallic.JPG) (Muscatel Maroon Metallic.JPG) (Charcoal Gray.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Spice Brown Metallic.JPG (60KB - 160 downloads) Muscatel Maroon Metallic.JPG (61KB - 175 downloads) Charcoal Gray.JPG (56KB - 184 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9667 Location: So. Cal | How about mixing it up a little with charcoal/maroon or charcoal/spice brown? | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Not for me, but here it is. The Maroon Spice is not so nice to my eye. Edited by macedon 2018-11-29 3:29 PM (Charcoal Maroon.JPG) (CharcoalSpice.JPG) (SpiceMaroon.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Charcoal Maroon.JPG (73KB - 173 downloads) CharcoalSpice.JPG (74KB - 161 downloads) SpiceMaroon.JPG (75KB - 159 downloads) | ||
Imp58Alpes |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 558 Location: Grenoble - France | If I had to customize the paint (i.e. not put it back to original), my preferred paint scheme would be Sunlit yellow with black sweep and roof. Always loved that combo. | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | That would be bold. I do like the lighter body with the darker roof/sweep myself. However I already have a yellow/black one... my Rumble Bee. Edited by macedon 2018-11-30 11:16 AM (yellowblack.JPG) (haulhome.JPG) Attachments ---------------- yellowblack.JPG (78KB - 170 downloads) haulhome.JPG (95KB - 167 downloads) | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | Love pale yellow and black. Especially when the roof and inserts are black. The black makes the roof appear smaller. Can't stand new car colors on 50s cars, like charcoal. Also the "spice maroon" above is just terrible. Here is a perfect example of typical 50s pastel paint with a black roof. Love the blue/grey/greenish body color of this car together with the black roof, great wheels too: Edited by 1960fury 2018-12-04 7:28 AM (color1.jpg) Attachments ---------------- color1.jpg (46KB - 159 downloads) | ||
57burb |
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Expert Posts: 3967 Location: DFW, TX | Charcoal is one-half of THE most iconic 1950s paint scheme, Coral and Shadow Gray on the 1955 Chevy. It was available on the most expensive car of the 1950s, the '57 Cadillac Brougham. It was available on Dave's Fireflite when new. It's a subdued, sophisticated color and it could be argued that goes against the whimsy of the '57 Desoto design. But they were laying down charcoal gray paint every day of the '50s my friend! If you're still trying to decide, I'd suggest taking a look at period advertisements for the color schemes those professional artists and designers were using to sell them. Stand back, squint, get an overall 'feel' for how the colors and proportions work together. And remember the cars are nearly 20 feet long and you have to look at it forever! I like the pastel yellow and white Fireflite convertible in the dealer book. The same color scheme may not work as well on a sedan though. That's why the squint thing is so important... Edited by 57burb 2018-12-04 8:26 AM (1955-chevy-belair-unrestored-time-capsule-3.jpg) (1957-cadillac-eldorado-brougham-5.jpg) (1957 DeSoto Fireflite.jpg) (20181204_073701.jpg) (des57_05-vi.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1955-chevy-belair-unrestored-time-capsule-3.jpg (44KB - 158 downloads) 1957-cadillac-eldorado-brougham-5.jpg (40KB - 159 downloads) 1957 DeSoto Fireflite.jpg (88KB - 164 downloads) 20181204_073701.jpg (246KB - 171 downloads) des57_05-vi.jpg (24KB - 162 downloads) | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | 57burb - 2018-12-04 8:21 AM Charcoal is one-half of THE most iconic 1950s paint scheme, Coral and Shadow Gray on the 1955 Chevy. Yes, okay, that doesn't look bad along with Coral. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7400 Location: northern germany | 57burb - 2018-12-04 8:21 AM But they were laying down charcoal gray paint every day of the '50s my friend! Never said the contrary, but what does that prove? If you read old car mags, then you know that even in the 50s some people hated the styling of the finned cars they had to buy and disliked everything typical 50s. That charcoal (grey) would look perfect on any new Toyota. I just prefer the crazy 50s pastel shades. It goes along well with the whole styling-theme of the decade. | ||
57burb |
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Expert Posts: 3967 Location: DFW, TX | Color is a very subjective thing. IMO black can contrast harshly with soft colors, and in many cases you can get a more mellow contrast with a gray. I am not saying one is better than the other - just that gray is period-appropriate, and it can look really good. Edited by 57burb 2018-12-04 3:42 PM (180994_Side_Profile_Web.jpg) (268565_1957-DeSoto-Fireflite-Sportsman_low_res.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 180994_Side_Profile_Web.jpg (193KB - 170 downloads) 268565_1957-DeSoto-Fireflite-Sportsman_low_res.jpg (64KB - 168 downloads) | ||
macedon |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 963 Location: San Antonio, TX | Well I've got plenty of time to figure out what color to paint my four door hardtop. Still have to finish the trunk and floors. I might end up back at the cars original color. All Frost White. I do like that Charcoal though | ||
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