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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
  
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-CUSTOM-ROYAL-LANCER-D-500-HEMI-...
Clink on the Link, It takes a while to open as there are LOADS of Pic,s..
I think Neil may be Secretly Watching this one , LOL... Lot of car for LOADS of $$$$$..
Seriously though, With a few of you being Very Clued Up on these, Let,s see if you can Pull it apart just for Fun,
I will go first, the Convertible roof looks like it fits Crap.. Ha Ha |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | It has been on Ebay a few times before, Here is a Couple Pic,s...
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | This car has been on ebay, several times, before, and its "restoration" has been discussed in some detrail, ion the Daily List Server threads.
Suffice it to say that, the quality-detail of the restoration notwithstanding, OR its actual mechanical condition, UNDERNEATH the too-shiney paintwork,
this car was, indeed built as an all-black CRL D500 convertible (single 4-bbl), with red interior (albeit NOT in the 'hardtop' motif, that it wears, now)
and it had a white vinyl top, too. It also had OEM power seat and windows (but not those 15" wire wheels, but it did have spinner hubcaps.)
About-all that the car didn't have, OEM, was air conditioning.
The car is probably "worth" around 75-80K , but, for that money, it sure would be nice to get a car that (dependably) actually runs!
For the past-few ebay appearances, it's received the 'same' 95K opening bid, with no further interest.
The car probably has 75K in purchase/'restoration' costs, in it, and the restoration, right now , is at least 2 years old.
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Member
Posts: 7
| So what is the general market for these cars ? Assuming it is a correct convertible D500? I'm a Mopar guy for many years, mostly Muscle cars etc, but I'm interested in picking up a D500 convertible from 1957-1959, any advice, suggestions in regards to what I can expect to pay? Also what years are the most desirable if any are more desirable than others? thanks in advance. I would want a done car, i'm not in the mood to hunt down all that trim!!LOL
JP |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 57 is the last year for the Hemi. The "magical" word amongst Moparites. 59 had the most drastic styling for the 3 year run, making them sought by many just for the sheetmetal. 58 is probably the rarest, but falls in between the two and seems to be forgotten by comparison. But ANY convertible FL car is going to get cubic attention and similar dollars. Multiply by D-500 and it only gets that much steeper. As for value, .. that pretty much depends on what the seller wants. There aren't enough surviving to do price comps. They simply aren't for sale often enough.
Out! |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Doctor DeSoto - 2007-02-05 6:24 AM
59 had the most drastic styling for the 3 year run, making them sought by many just for the sheetmetal. . As for value, .. that pretty much depends on what the seller wants. There aren't enough surviving to do price comps. They simply aren't for sale often enough.
Out!
Did CARJOCK ever sell his 59 D500 Convertible, Last time he had it on Ebay he pulled the Auction Early ?? OR did his Bro (finfolk) evenually get his hands on it..LOL |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hi, Hemiragtop-John!
As "they" say: "Money Talks"; are you a good linguist?
If you talk-the-talk, this D500 convie pretty-much walks-the-walk.
Problems mostly relate to the phoney hardtop interior that the shop installed, (anyone else notice the WEIRD seat-height/position, the car has---as if the power seat troughs were installed BACKWARDS, into the floor pan, creating a badly "tipped" seat attitude), plus other & sundry short-cuts and resto/detail mistakes (like the black-instead-of-white top) that are evident on the car, all of which should reduce its FAIR market value, as being a "restored" car.
That said, the car IS a righteous all-black D500 convie, with power seat and windows.
You are smart, to want a 'completed' car.
If you buy this car, you'll get a good "running" (but, how WELL, I dunno) "platform" , to continue-on- "restoring".
You just have to realize that this car is NOT "correctly" detailed-restored, in exchange for a lot of purchase-money. But, the car is "real", and represents a real opportunity, to own a rare convertible.
Even if I had the money, I wouldn't pay over 100K for the car, without FULLY investigating its mechanical condition! |
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Location: The Mile High City | Folks often pour more into a restoration than the car is worth. NADA pegs this car between $52,480 and $91,200. http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&c=7&m=1052&d=2393&y=1957&vi=69145&o=11437|11439|11440&z=80206&da=-1 At $55,000, the car might sell. Anything over $95,000 is more like a Barrett-Jackson auction price. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Two ways of looking at this:
1. "Book" value.
2. The desire to actually drive one of these as your own before you die waiting to get one at "book" value.
I paid ten grand for my complete, turnkey, auction queen shiney rustbucket of a car. I knew it was a POS when I bought it. But it was complete. And after hunting impossible parts for 14 years to complete my Adventurer ragtop, I was more than happy to take on a car I might actually see to completion because it was all there .... well, maybe with the exception of a hundreds pounds of critical sheetmetal 
I drove the car for almost a year before getting slammed by a 87 Blazer while waiting for a light to change. This cut short the number of years I had planned to just enjoy the car before diving into another sprawling project. 25 grand later, the body has been cut to ribbons, reassembled piece-by-piece, and is getting somewhat close to being complete enough to then take it off the frame as a complete, rust-free body and start from the ground up.
Is it worth it ? The real question in my mind is: Could I find another one cheaper ?
Book value ? What's that ? I could hold 50 grand in the air until the good Lord takes me and it is doubtful anyone is going to step up and offer to trade me that money for their finished FL convertible. Double it, and the chances double with it. But at $100,000, I can handily restore my car and drive it for many years before that money runs out.
I enjoyed old cars a lot more when they weren't priced out of my league by new-money dipweeds that populate the Barrett-Jackson buyer's bleachers. But that is reality. If I wanted to buy a high caliber FL convertible today, I guess I'd go on down to my credit union and line up a loan for the kind of money that many would use to buy a home, and then go around waving cubic dollars in the air. Making payments on a car I can actually enjoy while I'm alive beats the anguished waiting for a book value bargain that probably won't ever come along, ... at least in my book it does.
Out! |
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Expert
Posts: 1303
Location: Farmingdale NJ | See if this link works...... I come up with about 41 grand for this car fair market value
Home
collector Car Market Review Value Report
1957 DODGE CUSTOM ROYAL 325-285hp (8cyl-4V) AT
#5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Conv 3425 9100 17050 26175 32400
2dr Hdtp 1150 3700 8200 13425 18925
4dr Hdtp 875 2700 6075 9325 12675
4dr Sdn 750 2325 5175 7975 11025
Cust Sierra 4dr Wgn 1225 3550 7425 11625 14925
Add:
354-310hp (V8-4V)D500 15%
354-340hp(2x4V)D500S 35%
Air conditioning 12%
Power windows 5%
Hwy Hi-Fi record plyr 5%
Deduct:
3spd manual transmission -10%
Manual steering -3%
Values on this website from May 2005. Keep up-to-date! Current Values available here: Subscribe
Buy or Sell - FREE classifieds • Find an Appraiser • Reference Material
email Collector Car Market Review to a friend
(C) Copyright 1988-2005, VMR International, Inc., all rights reserved
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Expert
Posts: 2932
Location: Lemoore CA | What I am thinking is everything is inflated at the moment, did anyone else see the thread under ebay auctions for the pink 59 Coronet 2drhrdtp? 15,000 seems outragious to me even though it looked to be a nice car, although, I don't think it was the original rose color but more pink. When you add mabeye 2000.00 on top of the price to import and ship it to Sweden we are talking un reasonable figures. I think it is likely the prices will stay high, but I think they will come down somewhat this next year. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I agree with the Doc; "Book" value is ONLY of 'value', in trying-to negotiate a settlement (as a point-of-reference, but NOT for being any "Authority", unless both parties agree to abide by its findings), for either the purchase of a car, OR , for establishing its value, after it may become destroyed. |
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Location: Parts Unknown |
I will take two of these at 41K. I can afford that and still pay the mortgage. Who are these guys writing this "factual" speculation? I want to know where I can sign up for even one car like this at 41K.
Obviously, this is pure pie-in-the-sky speculation. What could these "market analysts" possibly be building their numbers on ? I would like to suggest that by definition "fair market value" requires an actual MARKET where the subject at hand is actually changing hands at a dollar amount that averages out to this "fair market value".
Taking it one step further, there would need to be enough of these transactions taking place to actually come up with an average, ... no ?
Being as liberal as absolutely possible, ... how many very near mint 57 Dodge convertibles of ANY model / equipment changed hands in the last five years ?
41K is as accurate of a dollar value as 82K or $1,500. It is just a number someone pulled out of the air.
Here's where the rubber really meets the road ..... Let's say you own this black 57 D-500 convertible and you want to drive it. So you mosey on down to the old insurance agent and tell him you want to draw up a policy to cover any eventuality.
How do the two of you arrive at a number ?
You say " I want replacement coverage in the event of a total loss" ... in case of theft, ..... or the garage burns to the ground.
Your agent is going to drop the hot potato squarely in your lap and tell you that you must "prove" its fair market value / replacement cost.
Are you going to set its value by some book, based on a market that simply does not exist in numbers to establish an average selling price ? Numbers arrived at by Tarot cards, "expert" opinion, or wishful thinking? At 41K, that car cannot be replaced. And guess what, .... that means the owner is left holding the bag. Destroyed car, a claim settlement cap based on 41K, and no market in which to go buy this replacement car that these "analysts" imply is out there by saying "fair market value".
I speak from experience. My car sits in the garage, where it has been for 10 years. I allowed myself to be hornswaggled by this bologna, and after my car got walloped, the insurance folk simply laughed and wrote me a check for the "proven value" of the car at the time of policy intitiation and walked away. It could not be repaired for that much money and it sure as heck could not be replaced for that amount either.
Some cars were built in such numbers they CAN be replaced without too much trouble. Others only offer the option of what it would take to rebuild it from the ground up or pry one away from one of the few owners out there by beating them over the head with cubic dollars.
All future policies will state "car will be rebuilt or replaced, regardless of cost". It took some serious discussion to arrive at that verbiage with my current agent, but it wasn't near the hassle it has been rebuilding the car from scratch on MY dime. I'd write a cheque right now for 41K if I could just have my car finished and drive it tomorrow, and I already own it and have spent many thousands on it!
Out! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I just realized ; 41K MIGHT be "Fair" market value; but, 'unfortunately' (IFFFF you are trying to BUY a car; and not to SELL a car!!!), there is,
now, a recognized UN-FAIR Market Value, called Barrett Jackson, (et al; let's not single-out ONLY the B-J ), which establishes the UPPER/MAX
amount, that a car might be worth, in an auction venue.
Of course, what people fail to recognize is the ancillary COSTS involved , in GETTING the car/yourself TO the B-J, and what your Seller's/Buyer's
commissions might be, which REDUCE or INCREASE the actual proceeds involved, depending upon which side of the 'table' you are on).
41K does seem to me to be a TAD-low, tho, for this car's Fair Market Value; I'd say 50K is "Fair" value (Un-Fair value: 100K)
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Expert
Posts: 1303
Location: Farmingdale NJ | I knew this would get a reaction. The whole reason I posted this was in response to people asking "whats it worth ?"
Most of the time the "resources" we use are pretty close to agreeing on values.........of so called "average" cars. Now place a more rare vehicle out there and the Barrett- Jackson syndrome sets in.
So, is it worth 41 grand or 101 grand? Value is what someones willing to pay. Do you think every car on Barrett-Jackson is "worth" what they sold for? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Bob, .... I am right there with you.
I guess what I was trying to say is that FOR ME, it is worth whatever it takes to drive and enjoy it, .... restoration costs, parts costs, insurance, whatever.
Because of supply and demand, the car in question ( a Forward Look convertible ) bears an exaggerated value / replacement cost over even a 2HT. I could find you dozens of available 2HT's for every convertible, ... maybe hundreds ?
If I had a 57 Plymouth wagon (as an example), I could spend 40K restoring it and still "market value" would only bear a number somewhere in the teens (I would guess?). There are enough of those that come up for sale that an average value can be established. Replacement cost (if you could find an acceptable car) would be grossly lower than doing a frame-off resto.
On the other hand, if you owned that black 57 D-500 ragtop, and spent 40K restoring it, the market would easily bear all costs and probably a lot more (as we saw at B-J this year). Conversely, it is doubtful one could find a replacement car at almost ANY cost, .... at least one that your insurance company would sign off on, ... tossing you back to restoring the car again at almost any cost, simply because replacements rarely come up for sale, and when they do, it is usually via some outlet like B-J. When was the last time a "book value" priced 57 D-500 ragtop came up for sale in the Hemmings classifieds ?
I'm sticking with "it is worth whatever it takes to drive and enjoy it". That covers all eventualities.
Out!
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | What really gripes my asss, in Re: a lot of cars that I've seen cross the block, @ the B-J, in relation to their egregious selling prices, is how incorrectly, shoddily, flat-out-wrongly, that they are "restored", AND, I wonder, how well they could possibly OPERATE, given the attention to "finish"(-only?) work that they have received.
E.G. : might there be any fluid lEAKS, or mis-adjustments, mis-alignments, etc, involved with any car that has merely been assembled, but not test DRIVEN, for fear of ENCOUNTERING a 'dirty' environment?
$100K+ for a pretty, huge, 'door-stop'.....
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | That car is worth WELL over $100K.
The reason is, there are several buyers that will pay that kind of money for THAT car in THAT condition.
How many pieced-together undocumentable fuelie '57 Bel-Air convertibles have gone for that and more?
Keep in mind that a dollar figure like that is pocket change for some people, and if they want that car on a whim they will own it. Does everyone remember the BASKET CASE '57 Dodge convert that went for over $10K?? This WAS the link... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Lancer-1957-DODGE-CONVERTIBLE_... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I couldn't get the site-reference to open.
I would say that, any "COMPLETE" FWDLK convertible parts-car (having restorable frame, top mechanisms, rear seat, windshield "A" pillar pieces, and hopefully, the Paint/Trim plate, too, IS worth 10K.
Then, all the heartless entrepreneur has to do is violate a complete "donor" car; and, then: VOILA! $25-30K later, he's got his convie! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Pretty much correct on all counts, Neil.
I paid $10K for mine - it was a VERY incorrectly, CHEAPLY patched together parade queen ...... but it was complete (minus rusted away sheetmetal). No problem there, though. Some beer can gauge galvanized sheetmetal (looked like HVAC duct) was layed over the top of the non-existant floors and tacked where they could find something solid to get a bite on.
Voila! ..... "restored" !!!! 
I gotta give the guys who did the work credit though .... forming heat duct and gallons of bondo into headlight pockets and wheel well lips is a talent that requires many, many years of skilled tutoring and endless hours of practice.
I am not very happy with myself for chopping up unwanted (but perfectly decent) cars back in the old days. I have mentioned it here before. Back in the day we found more cars than we could ever buy and had a destructive appetite for picking parts and moving on the the next "find".
The Fireflite convertible came along after I had sold of most of my cars and went together with parts I had salvaged over the years - a deck lid off a 58 Fireflite, floor pan out of a 59 Fireflite, wheel lips off the same, fenders from a 57 Chrysler, I think the inner fenders and radiator support were also from that car.
That 57 NY'er was an interesting study in how things used to be. My very first FL car, it was a low miles, nice original coupe that had fallen into the wrong hands. This clown cut a hole in the hood and gave it a high rise dual quad set up and a hood scoop. all the sidetrim was removed, and since it would not fit in a garbage can, he bent it over his knee every three feet or so to make it more "manageable" !!!! It was still in a trash can in the corner of the garage when I bought the car. It took years to find the stuff he had destroyed to get the car back in shape, taking the arrogant abuse of 300 clubbers telling me to part it out and get a "real car" ... (a 300).
I ultimately got the parts I needed through certain 300 club members who were parting out NY'ers for their 300's, and it was through them that I found my Adventurer convertible - a wasted rusty hulk, delivered to me in parts on a pallet from Virginia. I finally had a convertible - sort of.
I put the running, driving, nice original NY'er coupe up for sale for $2500. It was yellow and black. a nice looking car. I got no takers. Not a single call. I had about a dozen 57-9 coupes kicking around at the time, but this was Seattle - land of eternal rain. None were without serious rust and so thinking over the dollars involved, decided the NY'er was worth well over the $2500 asking price as a solid body and frame on which to build the Adventurer. I was getting a $1000 a pop for good running 392's, so it got stripped.
Looking back on it, I sure kick myself in the butt for not just parking all these cars in the dark recesses of a warehouse somewhere and forgetting them. But such were the times. Wish I could buy nice NY'er coupes for $2500 now !
About the time I got my Fireflite is when the "guilties" set in over my collaboration in sending good cars to their end. In this light, I termed a new phrase for myself "guilt-free parts car". This term applied to something simply not saveable .... and if you saw that pallet of Adventurer I turned back into a solid car, you'd understand I have a high level of criteria of what can be saved. I do not want to cut up any more cars for the ease of restoration that are perfectly saveable cars themselves. I feel bad enough for those I already sent to the great beyond. Cars that will never be again.
It may take forming panels from scratch and hunting harder for guilt-free parts, but it will be worth cleansing my conscience to make the effort.
Out! |
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Doc, you need a girlfriend.
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Location: Parts Unknown | I got the best gal in the whole world. Easy on the eyes AND she loves this stuff, ... even has her own FL car ! Now how could I possibly beat THAT hand ?
What I DO need is this snow to melt, the frozen ground to thaw, and to get started on my new shop ! Then all will be one with the Buddha.
Out! |
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Location: The Mile High City | At some point, the market has spoken. We have seen this car on eBay several times now. At this price, I would give it more time. It may not sell this time around or next time around. If the owner has actively marketed the car for a couple of years, and is still unsuccessful, then we can conclude that this car is not worth $95,000. I don't even understand Barrett-Jackson: it seems that if the owner wants this much, why not sell it through them? From their posted auction results, this might go for twice as much or more! There is some kind of scam going on with Barrett-Jackson - I think the major collectors and dealers use it to inflate prices. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | No question, Mike. B-J pumps up the over-monied goobers of the world and skims a clean 20% off all the hype.
This leaves all us under-monied goobers to cry in our beer because we are priced right out of the market for cars we love by those who are more into them for bragging rights.
Just think, 20% of 285 grand for that red 59 Firesweep convertible amounts to $47,000. 20% on that Cobra was a cool million !
How many mansions on your own South Pacific island can the B-J guys buy when money is coming in like that ?
There is a huge difference in outlook when it comes to owning / enjoying a car and when it comes time to let it go. Who wouldn't want to trade their iron for a mountain of cash ? I don't like it, but that is reality.  |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, about the WEATHER (how ABOUT that 'weather'??), I'm gonna post a 'Weather-Report' to the FWDLK's Daily List Server, that you
Snow Birds might enjoy (or NOT) looking at, taken @ my office, today.
And, I understand COMPLETELY about Doc's contrition/penance/self-flagellation regarding his trying to cleanse his soul, of the stainage that it
received, when he condemned all those FWDLK'ers to the "Recycling Center" (Oh, the humanity...) .
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Location: The Mile High City | Even more insidious, I think the big collectors like Reggie Jackson and Richard Carpenter work with Barrett-Jackson to swap cars to each other for ever-escalating prices. The higher the price, the more their collection is worth. Brent, maybe you remember a green '58 DeSoto convertible that bumped around those auctions twenty years ago. It eventually reached the outrageous price of $60,000+/- ! But now, the laugh is on us - the seller of this car wants $95,000 + for a Dodge and they might get it. When did Dodges become Duesenbergs? When did Plymouths become Packards? To me, all Chrysler makes are just common cars - with the exception of the golden-era hand-built Chryslers and Imperials.
By the way, is Reggie Jackson the "Jackson" of Barrett-Jackson? |
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Expert
Posts: 1508
Location: new york | ide like to chime in here .if a very common 57 Ch**y conv [a very common mans car] can sell at 60 thou easy than my 56 57 or 58 plymouths convertibles should sell for just as much or more . they are less surving,harded to restore.i have owned 55-57 Ch**ys and my plymouths ride and handle better and the quality on the 56 is far superior.todays prices are so out of wack with all of the auction hype its really putting a strain one the car loving hobbiest. happy motoring! remember they were made to drive... |
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Expert
Posts: 2932
Location: Lemoore CA | By the way Doctor D, there is a 59 sweep conv with low miles for 50,000.00 on the Desoto website, sounds like it's close to being ready to go to. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I believe they are one and the same car. How many of these with less than 3000 miles can possibly exist ? The description on the NDC site is near identical to the one in the B-J magazine / program. The comment about an never-registered / dealer owned car is just too much coincidence.
This points up exactly the what was being said about an open sale and a B-J hyped up sale ...... in this case, about 230 thousand dollars worth !!!
B. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hi, Victor; welcome aboard!
As much as I like Mopes, "price-value", IS reflected by 'perception/image', 'popularity' (almost the same thing) , and, of course, 'rarety'.
Our cars are almost TOO rare, as they have fallen-out of the public's "focus", and so, they are not what the public is searching for, or thinking about,
when one of our cars comes INTO the public's 'focus', and, so, the public is NOT pre-disposed to spend a lot of money ON a "huh?-car"
The 'public' thinks that it "knows" about 57 Chebbies, and so "knows" that they ARE 'valuable', and the public is "prepared to pay a lot
of money on a Cheb, because the high-price ON the car, is to be "expected".
The "public" has no pre-conceived value-impressions, on a Fury/D500/ADV.
Of course, "informed-car-nuts" know about them, but, try this experiment, 'on' a complete stranger, on the street : ask him or her if they've
ever heard of a "Bel Aire (sp?) " . Then, ask 'them' what a 'Fury' (etcetcetc) was....
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Veteran
Posts: 153
Location: Massachusetts | That is a beautiful car but somehow I find the 59 a more refined design. Though I've posted these previously, here is about the best example of a Custom Royal Lancer with Super D-500 that I know of...
Dan
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smdodge35.JPG (75KB - 115 downloads)
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smdodge41.JPG (72KB - 124 downloads)
smdodge48.JPG (73KB - 113 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | dplotkin - 2007-02-08 11:29 PM
That is a beautiful car but somehow I find the 59 a more refined design. Though I've posted these previously, here is about the best example of a Custom Royal Lancer with Super D-500 that I know of...
Dan
No arguments from me. That 59 is Gorgeous, Although it does have 1 Fault,,,,???
It isn,t Sitting in my Drive..LOL |
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Expert
Posts: 2932
Location: Lemoore CA | For my taste, there isn't anything better than a 59 Dodge, be it a sedan, hardtop or convertible. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | This got me thinking about favorites, ..... see new thread "Favorite Dodge". |
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Member
Posts: 7
| dplotkin - 2007-02-08 6:29 PM
That is a beautiful car but somehow I find the 59 a more refined design. Though I've posted these previously, here is about the best example of a Custom Royal Lancer with Super D-500 that I know of...
Dan
I agree that car is PERFECT!! That is Naif's car..............I want one!!LOL |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Virtually no legitimate OEM-1959 Super D500's are known to exist, although quite a few "converted" single-4-barrel D500's exist; this may be
one of the "conversions" .
I do happen to know "where" , on the Paint/Trim plate, the "D500" staus of a 1959 car is recorded, and have had extensive conversations
with one or more 1959 Dodge "Experts".
Although very-well versed on 59 Dodges, I consider myself as having 'great-knowledge' only on 1957 Dodges.
I am not disparaging the above, or any 1959 Dodge, merely confirming that a claim for ANY Dodge , being a "Super D500" model MUST be
considered very carefully.
I , personally, know of several 1959 "Super D500 convertibles" which were "created expressly" (out of non-D500 hardtops) for the purpose of being sold at a certain well-known auction.
Several people have recently mentioned, on these threads, that there may be more "300C's" in existence, now, than were originally built. Fury
owners, too, are very-protective of the authenticity of "their" Fury models.
But, we are discussing the restoration-execution, and Fair Market Value, on 'this' 57 CRL D500 convertible, and, now, the comparative styling- merits, of the 1959 Dodges.
Dodges. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I would be happy to receive, via a PM, or posted-here, Naif's car's Paint/Trim Data plate, if he believes that his car may have been built
as a Super D500. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Naif's car's trunk silencer pads are not OEM correct, and is that a Plymouth trunk mat? It is not 'for' a Dodge; darn (yes: "darn") it, I'm
not trying to be antagonistic, but, merely pointing-out how DIFFICULT it really IS, to create a "correct"/perfect, restoration (seeing beyond the
"pretty" paintwork, and the "soft" top!!!) |
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Location: Lemoore CA | Neil, I don't believe they reproduce the correct mat for the Dodge, you probably already know that, I think a lot of people use the Plymouth ones, at least it looks better, in my opinion, than full carpeting in the trunk. Sadly, with my budget, I can only hope to restore mine as well as I can, but my intention is to make it look like it came from the factory. If some details have to be flubbed because of finances, or availability, I still want to only restore it in a way that appears correct even if it is not technically. On another note, after it is done, I won't be passing it off as 100% correct either, just a nice car. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | James, I HEAR, ya!
I've been 'restoring' my car, since 1980 (& STILL don't have a correct rubber trunk mat, altho I DO have two aftermarket trunk mats---one
is a vinyl-ized houndstooth 'surface' , applied directly over a thin jute substrate-material (fragile surface-coating!) , and, a nuke-proof
all-vinyl mat, in a sort of 2-tone gray small-squares motif.
A major "part" of the joys of FWDLK ownership IS trying to locate correct items/pieces, instead of merely ordering them, from a catalog (although
we WOULD be 'lost', without the services of Gary Goers!!)
Back in the Dark Ages (pre-Gary Goers, in the early 80's), there was an article I recall about how to MAKE (the lower-portion-of) your
own quarter-window weatherstrips, as no replacements were (yet) available.
Where the restorer of than 59 convie was fortunate, is the fact that Dodge convertibles had their spare tires be installed IN that lower-
front location (like, for PLY's), instead of up/on the rear of the trunk, because the PLY mat is cut-out (IIRC) where the spare-tire got
installed.
My BIG bug-a-boo is the 'creation' of "Super D500's"; either 'from' real D500's, or, sometimes "not-even" D500's...
Nobody's 'jumping' on me, and I appreciate that; my personal belief is that an informed person makes a better hobbyist.
One of the tell-tales, about recognising a 2-four barrel creation, in ANY FWDLK'er is the location/placement of the fuel filters
and/or the general shape/placement/installation of the fuel lines, connecting the fuel pump to the front carb, and leading from
the front car, to the rear carb.
And, then, there's the sometimes-unique 2-four barrel carb exhaust manifolds involved...and, the air cleaners, and the intake manifold,
and the coil location on the intake manifold, AND: THE CARBS, themselves (what am I forgetting?)
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Posts: 2932
Location: Lemoore CA | Scrolling through some old threads I found this one on Naif's car. For those who do not know, it was recently featured in a two issue profile in "Hemmings Classic Car" It was a beautiful photo shoot and nicely written article, although it makes no mention if the car is an actual super d-500, it is written in such a way that leads readers to believe it came from the factory this way, maybe it did maybe it didn't It does say it had an incorrect engine when it was first acquired by Naif. Also one of the captions for a picture of the trunk mat says " The rubber trunk mat bearing the correct pattern complements the new cardboard liners and grey carpeting installed". Well, we know it isn't the correct pattern. In any case, this is an outstanding car, with a top quality restoration. Just really nice. |
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Posts: 1302
Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | D500NEIL,
You may be forgetting one of the toughest parts to try and dig up/fabricate...the accelerator/automatic transmission downshift linkage. I went through hell coming up with the correct linkages when I put a '57 Adventurer engine in my '55 DeSoto. A.) They never MADE an Adventurer engine in '55, and B.) The '57 linkage was WAY off. I used '56 Adventurer linkage (which, as it turned out, was/would have been the correct linkage), and at that, had to replace missing pieces using the Parts manual to cross reference part numbers to other Chrysler products/years to replace missing pieces. When people try to make a D-500 car out of a sow's ear, that's one of the toughest items to source and have operate properly/as original...especially since the original linkages were not that common anyway, and likely went to the crusher with the rest of the car...
Edited by 345 DeSoto 2007-09-14 2:49 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | [i just erased my entire message, when I forgot Tony's name, and went "up" to find it!]
Alright: short-version, now: a careful reading of the Hemmings article(s) on Naif's car finds several comments that it was not
a D500, originally (the articles don't mention (IIRC--mag's @ home) that its been recreated as being a "Super D500" (2- 4's), and the article(s) state that the car's original colors may have been pink & coral (again, IIRC) .
The car's P/T plate will reveal all, regarding the D500, interior & exterior OEM finishings.
Yeah, I'd like to own it, as-is, as well as that real-single-4 all black 57 D500 convertible.
The black car appears to have had its power seat floor troughs be installed BACKWARDS, as the seat tips forward,
precipitously----that's an expensive, but very-doable cut-out-and-reweld-in procedure. The installation of a correct
convertible interior (its got a hardtop interior in it, above) will be pricey, too.
Re; TONY'S (thank you very much) comment, about shift linkages, a very-noticible red-flag, on ANY dual-4 installation,
is the appearance of the fuel line, going to the front carb, and/or the fuel lines and fuel filter servicing the rear carb (or not).
And, for 56-57 Hemi "Super-D" fabrications, the coil location/bracketry is a complete giveaway, as to originality (of the
components).
I had thought that someone IS presently re-popping shift linkages, at least, for 57+ applications.....?
Edited by d500neil 2007-09-14 3:23 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | 345 DeSoto - 2007-09-15 11:42 AM
When people try to make a D-500 car out of a sow's ear, ...
You don't like 59 Dodges either ? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ..You talking to TONY...? Oh, EYE get it: you meant to say :" You don't like 59 Dodges.....EITHER (????) |
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2007-09-15 1:50 PM
..You talking to TONY...? Oh, EYE get it: you meant to say :" You don't like 59 Dodges.....EITHER (????)
*****************************
Sounded to me as if he was likening a 59 Dodge to a sow's ear.
That's alright, they rank close to the bottom for FL cars for me too.  |
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Location: Lemoore CA | I know what you mean just about near the bottom, in fact the only thing lower is a 58 Desoto. LoL! Just kidding. |
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Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | My statement eluded to the expression "You can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear...", meaning that you can't make a D-500 convertible out of a base convertible or hardtop, not to '59 Dodges. That goes for
any clone that someone makes and tries to pass off as a "silk purse"..
Edited by 345 DeSoto 2007-09-14 11:04 PM
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Nice comment, I've always like Desoto's but now I am beginiing to wonder about their owners. |
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Posts: 1918
Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | Eh', everyone's got their perspective.
From a few posts I've seen in the last couple of months, I know I'll probably get a small ration of s**t about "those darn reverse canted fins" once I get my '59 Fury/Sport Fury 2 door hardtop.
Now me, I personally like the '59 Plymouth fins - they're clean, uncluttered and make a statement, coming or going - but, IMO, the '57-'58 DeSoto fins are a TOUGH act to follow. |
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57 D500 convertible, (Neils Possibly)
