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Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General Discussion	Message format

Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2013-05-09 3:26 AM (#374296 - in reply to #374294)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Location: Parts Unknown

Wow, ... that is a crazy-looking hybrid !!!! Dig those factory custom tail lights on a 61 Ford
rear clip !!! I can't believe the tooling to make these paid off. How many did they sell ?

One thing for sure, you likely won't ever see another one !

hemidave

Posted 2013-05-09 7:44 AM (#374312 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Sunshine State Parkway Dodges at the dealership

Edited by hemidave 2013-05-09 7:47 AM

(Sunshine State Parkway.jpg)

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Sunshine State Parkway.jpg (131KB - 242 downloads)

vedette

Posted 2013-05-09 5:47 PM (#374410 - in reply to #374296)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-09 3:26 AM

Wow, ... that is a crazy-looking hybrid !!!! Dig those factory custom tail lights on a 61 Ford
rear clip !!! I can't believe the tooling to make these paid off. How many did they sell ?

One thing for sure, you likely won't ever see another one !

It was Distinctively Canadian

vedette

Posted 2013-05-09 6:08 PM (#374412 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Indianapolis

(Indianapolis500.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-09 6:17 PM (#374413 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Las Vegas 1960

(LasVegas1960.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-09 6:23 PM (#374416 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Belgium

(Courtrai-Kortrijk.jpg)

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d500neil

Posted 2013-05-09 7:59 PM (#374421 - in reply to #374416)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca

The Sunshine State Parkway cars have 15" wheels.

The easiest way to confirm the wheel size (because some 14" tires a very tall) is to look at the hub caps or wheel covers.

The 57+ Dodges (except for the unique D501 models) all have 14" wheels, so the only 'covers' that were available to the
15" wheels were the 1956 guys, and these cars have the 56 Dog dishes on them.

Think that the 61's were the last year to use the 56 'covers' on them.

Here's an example of really big/tall tires mounted onto OEM 14" wheels---note the 1957 Wheel covers on it.

Edited by d500neil 2013-05-10 2:31 AM

(14-wheels.png)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-09 9:14 PM (#374433 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Capetown

(Capetown.jpg)

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mrtester

Posted 2013-05-09 11:22 PM (#374437 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Posts: 802
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Location: Norcross (Atlanta area), GA

Somewhere in Canada, a 1959 Regent is awaiting restoration.

(regent25.jpg)

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d500neil

Posted 2013-05-10 2:18 AM (#374448 - in reply to #374437)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Look at those body panel alignments; a well made car, there.

Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2013-05-10 3:42 AM (#374451 - in reply to #374410)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Location: Parts Unknown

vedette - 2013-05-10 2:47 PM

One thing for sure, you likely won't ever see another one !

It was Distinctively Canadian

=========================================================

When I started peddling parts 30+ years ago, throngs of Canadians came down to our swap meets
looking for cars and parts. They brought with them my introduction to these crazy "Canadian" hybrid
cars. I do not remember a single one of these guys praising the cheap and cheesy cars their country
was sold. They were there looking for chrome and flash and expressed negative feelings towards the
cars marketed to Canada back in the day.

I could not (and still can't) figure out why specially altered versions of the standard U.S. cars would be
made, not only from a WTF ? standpoint, but a nuts-and-bolts manufacturing cost and assembly nightmare
that I still can't see paying off for the volume made.

This video gives some explanation, or at least "evidence", that there was some hyped-up distinction being
promoted about "Being Canadian". I don't "get it", and I certainly don't think I'd be fooled that this wasn't
just a regular old Ford with the details mashed around, but apparently it WAS meaningful enough to some
in the day to spend a boatload of money tooling up special parts, and the logistics nightmare of all the variations
to track on a production line, not to mention this promotion energy.

Seems to this observer that a straight run of near identical cars in mass production logic could be sold
cheaper than lots of variations with large quantities of special parts to deliver a less expensive product that
would boost sales .... an argument I have heard made FOR the special models (that they were cheaper).
This defies simple, proven manufacturing logic. But this "I am Canadian, therefore I deserve a special "Canadian"
car" thinking, while bizarre, apparently WAS a going idea of the times.

By 1980, fin car enthusiasts had dumped that logic and wanted the full meal deal of the American market cars.

Very interesting video. Thanks for posting.

hemidave

Posted 2013-05-10 8:02 AM (#374461 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Dog Dish Caps

(dog dish caps.jpg)

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kmccabe56

Posted 2013-05-10 11:54 AM (#374513 - in reply to #374451)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-10 3:42 AM

vedette - 2013-05-10 2:47 PM

One thing for sure, you likely won't ever see another one !

It was Distinctively Canadian

Probably the biggest reason for GM/Ford/Chrysler making uniquely Canadian cars was the fact that Canadian import duties (even to the manufacturers) on cars and parts from the U.S. were obscenely high. It wasn't until the Autopact of 1965 that manufacturers were allowed to bring in, in $$ terms, as much as they exported to the U.S. That's when volume manufacturing came into its own here. That worked extremely well for both sides until the WTO ruled the Autopact "illegal" which opened the floodgates to, primarily the Japs and later the Koreans to flood the Canadian & U.S. markets.

imopar380

Posted 2013-05-10 12:07 PM (#374515 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Brent, even in the 80s & 90s there were still differences. My Mom bought a brand new Chrysler Dynasty in 1989, they were not sold as Dodges here. The Intrepids of the 90s were also sold as Chryslers here, just simple badge engineering by that time, with no special trim.

Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2013-05-10 1:06 PM (#374524 - in reply to #374513)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Location: Parts Unknown

kmccabe56 - 2013-05-11 8:54 AM

Probably the biggest reason for GM/Ford/Chrysler making uniquely Canadian cars was the fact that Canadian import duties (even to the manufacturers) on cars and parts from the U.S. were obscenely high. It wasn't until the Autopact of 1965 that manufacturers were allowed to bring in, in $$ terms, as much as they exported to the U.S. That's when volume manufacturing came into its own here. That worked extremely well for both sides until the WTO ruled the Autopact "illegal" which opened the floodgates to, primarily the Japs and later the Koreans to flood the Canadian & U.S. markets.

hemidave

Posted 2013-05-11 5:18 PM (#374722 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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55 Plymouth

(55 Plymouth.jpg)

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Chrycoman

Posted 2013-05-11 6:50 PM (#374729 - in reply to #374524)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Nothing "special" about the so-called Canada-only cars. Just taking advantage of people's preferences for car makes and trying to offer a car at a price people can afford. Back in the 1920's and 1930's Dodge had a great name and a strong following. Plymouth did not. Similarly, Pontiac was considered a better-built car than the Chevrolet in the 1930's. And its flathead six was a better engine than Chevrolet's splash-lubricated, 3-main, ohv six with cast iron pistons.

To compare imported vs Canadian-built cars in 1930 (prices in US and Canada):

1930 Nash Single Six 4-dr Sedan (imported) -
USA - $1,005
CDN - $1,360 (+35.3%)

1930 Dodge DD Six 4-dr Sedan (CDN) -
USA - $ 865
CDN - $1,105 (+27.8%)

Canada protected its automotive industry with import duties on cars and parts almost right from the beginning, as did the U.S. The 1930's depression hit Canada harder than the U.S., with manufacturing jobs drying up and the west being hit with a massive drought. My mother grew up on a farm just west of Saskatoon and her memories of the 1930's was that of a dust bowl. Massive clouds would build up on the horizon, everyone hoping it was rain, and instead all they got was a whirlwind of dust. As in the U.S., prior to WW II more people lived in rural communities than urban and contributed a larger chunk of cash to the economy.

In 1929 General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Willys-Overland, Studebaker, and Durant were all building cars in Canada, using parts imported from the U.S. along with locally supplied parts. Hupmobile had a plant in Windsor, but had not used it since production ended for war work in 1917. By 1932 GM had closed the Regina assembly plant, Chrysler was no longer using the former Dodge plant in Toronto or the old Fisher Body plant in Windsor, Ford closed the Montreal assembly plant, Durant had become Frontenac and was on it last legs while Willys-Overland went bankrupt.

At this point the Canadian government came up with a new import duty scheme. Instead of a flat rate, auto manufacturers used a sliding rate based upon the Canadian content in the production of the car (parts, labour, etc.). The higher the Canadian content, the lower the tariff on the imported goods. Thus Hupp reopened its Windsor plant, Graham and Packard leased plants in Windsor, Reo contracted Frontenac to assemble cars and trucks for Canada and Hudson had Canada Top & Body in Tilbury to build Hudsons for Canada. It worked. More cars were built in Canada and more jobs were created. How it affected the net intake of import duties for the government I do not know, but looking at the price comparison below they may not have suffered much.

From 1929 the Chrysler Corporation line-up was, from cheap to expensive, Plymouth, DeSoto, Dodge and Chrysler. In 1933 Dodge and DeSoto swapped places. The new cheaper 1933 Dodge DP sold better than the 1932 Dodge DL, but it was the DQ (a stripper version of the DP) that really did the trick, with 1933 Dodge sales almost tripling over 1932. Thus the decision to market a Plymouth-based Dodge in Canada, the first being the 1934 Dodge DT. It sold so well, that Dodge sales in a couple of years were higher than Plymouth. Bodies were Plymouth but the front ends were Dodge. The 1939 to 1952 small Dodges could not use the front ends of the big Dodges (different bodies) so their noses were unique. And starting in 1935 production of the Plymouth-based Dodges began in Detroit for various export markets. From 1946 through 1959 they were sold as Kingsway. The Canadian plant also built Dodges for export.

Also in 1933, Chrysler of Canada up set two dealer networks - Chrysler-Plymouth and Dodge-DeSoto- to replace the single network - Plymouth-Dodge - with DeSoto and Chrysler cars added to certain dealers. Chrysler-Plymouth dealers would get the Fargo Truck in 1936.

To compare imported vs Canadian-built cars in 1934 :

1934 LaFayette (Nash) Six 4-dr Sedan (imported) -
USA - $ 715
CDN - $1,165 (+62.9%)

1934 Dodge DR DeLuxe Six 4-dr Sedan (CDN) -
USA - $ 765
CDN - $1,080 (+41.2%)

In 1936 the new Liberal government of W.L. Mackenzie King (the man on Canada's $50 bill) dumped the flexible import duties and brought back a flat rate. And part II of the Canadian make saga began. First, all the small manufacturers closed shop - Graham, Studebaker, Hupp, and Reo cars. Packard continued to 1939 and Hudson, on and off, to 1941.

In order to reduce the amount of imported parts, Chrysler opened an engine plant in 1938 to build flathead sixes for the Canadian market (Plymouth, Plymouth-based Dodge, US-type Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler) . Eight cylinder Chrysler models, along with convertibles, station wagons and a few other models, were imported starting with the 1937 models. Only coupes and sedans were built in Canada.

GM followed Chrysler, building only Chevrolets, Chevrolet-powered Pontiacs, six-cylinder Oldsmobiles and the small McLaughlin-Buicks in Canada - coupes and sedans only. The 8-cylinder models Pontiac and Oldsmobiles were imported, along with the large Buicks, LaSalles and Cadillacs. In 1938 GM introduced a Chevrolet-based Pontiac to do battle with Dodge and to go with the 224-cid Chevrolet-engined US-style Pontiac. It worked. Pontiac sales rose. By 1941 GM of Canada was building Pontiac flathead sixes in Canada, thanks to the sales of the Chevrolet-based Pontiac Fleetleader. And GM of Canada set up two dealerships - Chevrolet-Oldsmobile and Pontiac-McLaughlin-Buick. The "McLaughlin-" would not reappear after WW II.

To compare imported vs Canadian-built cars :

1938 DeSoto 2-dr Convertible Coupe (imported) -
USA - $1,045
CDN - $1,418 (+53.4%)

1938 DeSoto 4-dr Trg Sedan 9 CDN) -
USA - $ 970
CDN - $1,319 (+43.8%)

The purpose of the Canadian models was not to give Canadians something special or unique, but to give them a car they might be able to afford. Canadians' standard of living was below that of the U.S. and with the sparse population (10% of the U.S.) spread over the world's 2nd largest country by land mass, costs of distribution, to start with, were higher. Actually, virtually everything in Canada was higher due to those two major items - no population and more land than needed. Canada would not start to catch up to the U.S., as far as income goes until the 1960's.

Sheet metal differences were small, at least prior to 1955, with Ford, GM and Chrysler using as many tools and dies as possible and just stamping holes for grilles, parking lights, etc. in different locations. For example, contrary to what many say, Chrysler did not take the 1951-52 Dodge Coronet front fenders and modify them for the Dodge Kingsway, Crusader and Regent. The Coronet fenders were longer, wider and higher. Much easier to take the Plymouth front fenders and punch holes in different places.

The government could have eliminated import duties, but that would have made the need for factories in Canada redundant. And it would have resulted the people who worked in the factories without employment. And no employment, no car sales. No cars sales, no jobs. A vicious circle.

And how does special parts get around the duties? Simple. Plymouth and Dodge fenders done in Canada - no duties. Import DeSoto and Chrysler fenders - duties. DeSoto-Chrysler production ran around 5,000 cars a year, while Plymouth-Dodge production was 30,000 or more. Chrysler Canada could justify having parts made in Canada for 30,000 or more cars a year. But not 5,000.

1956 Plymouth Belvedere V8 4dr Sedan - USA : $2,209 CDN : $2,706 (+22.5%)
1956 Dodge Custom Royal V8 4dr Sedan - USA : $2,803 CDN : $3,190 (+13.8%)
1956 DeSoto Fireflite V8 4dr Sedan - USA : $3,115 CDN : $3,956 (+27.0%)
1956 Chrysler Windsor V8 4dr Sedan - USA : $3,055 CDN : $3,552 (+16.3%)

The Custom Royal and Windsor used the Canadian-built 303 A block poly. The Fireflite used imported 330.5-cid engines while the Belvedere's price is for the imported 270-cid engine, and not the later Canadian-built 277 A block poly.

Chrycoman

Posted 2013-05-11 7:02 PM (#374730 - in reply to #374296)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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One thing for sure, you likely won't ever see another one !

Total 1961 Meteor production came to 14,189. That was the worst year for the 1949-1961 Meteor.

1960 was the 2nd worst - 19,356.

The Montcalm convertible totalled 424.

Chrycoman

Posted 2013-05-11 9:02 PM (#374740 - in reply to #374451)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-10 3:42 AM

When I started peddling parts 30+ years ago, throngs of Canadians came down to our swap meets
looking for cars and parts. They brought with them my introduction to these crazy "Canadian" hybrid
cars. I do not remember a single one of these guys praising the cheap and cheesy cars their country
was sold. They were there looking for chrome and flash and expressed negative feelings towards the
cars marketed to Canada back in the day.

I could not (and still can't) figure out why specially altered versions of the standard U.S. cars would be
made, not only from a WTF ? standpoint, but a nuts-and-bolts manufacturing cost and assembly nightmare
that I still can't see paying off for the volume made.

This video gives some explanation, or at least "evidence", that there was some hyped-up distinction being
promoted about "Being Canadian". I don't "get it", and I certainly don't think I'd be fooled that this wasn't
just a regular old Ford with the details mashed around, but apparently it WAS meaningful enough to some
in the day to spend a boatload of money tooling up special parts, and the logistics nightmare of all the variations
to track on a production line, not to mention this promotion energy.

Seems to this observer that a straight run of near identical cars in mass production logic could be sold
cheaper than lots of variations with large quantities of special parts to deliver a less expensive product that
would boost sales .... an argument I have heard made FOR the special models (that they were cheaper).
This defies simple, proven manufacturing logic. But this "I am Canadian, therefore I deserve a special "Canadian"
car" thinking, while bizarre, apparently WAS a going idea of the times.

By 1980, fin car enthusiasts had dumped that logic and wanted the full meal deal of the American market cars.

Very interesting video. Thanks for posting.

Cheap and Cheesy ?????

The Canadian-built cars were all but identical to the US models, with a few variations. And Canadians were offered virtually all models built in the US that did not were not built in Canada.

Chryco was the different one as it did not offer any US Dodge below the top line Custom Royal / Polara in 1955-60 or the 1961 Polara, plus a few others. But, if you wanted one, Chrysler would order one for you. But, GM, Ford, AMC and Studebaker all would import the models they did not build in Canada. All you had to do was order it. With Chrysler, you could even order one of the tire-burning HP models - D-500, etc. None were built in Canada, but Chrysler would order one for you if you had the cash. A teacher at the high school I went to had a 1962 Sport Fury. It was not offered by Chrysler Canada, but he wanted one. So, his local Plymouth-Chrysler-Valiant-Fargo Truck dealer ordered one for him.

The Canadian 1957 Belvedere, for example, had the exactly the same exterior and interior trim as the U.S. Belvedere. The Canadian Belvedere had a 303 poly instead of the US 301 (or 277) while the colour selector included 20 colours as opposed to the US with 15. Transmissions were the same as were the brakes and virtually every option. A/C was a rare option on a Canadian-built car back then. AMC offered A/C on their Ramblers, but if ordered you got a car built in Kenosha and not Toronto (before 1958) or Brampton (starting 1961).

As for the "Canadian" angle - you are American. What can you possibly not understand?? American advertising is loaded with pro-American this, pro-American that, stars and stripes forever everywhere and everyone wrapped up in the American flag.

I have a 1938 US Pontiac brochure with Chief Pontiac and Uncle Sam on the front cover. American Plymouth brochures were loaded with American hype in the 1980's. The most confusing ones were the Horizon brochures hyping the American workmanship and American engineering. The Horizon was actually engineered in France (was based on the Simca 1304) and styling was done by Chrysler U.K. American advertisers push Americana, British advisertisers push things British, French advertisers go for French, German for German ideas, Australian for Australia, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

So you should grasp the pro-Canadian stand.

imopar380

Posted 2013-05-11 10:05 PM (#374746 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Let's not forget, either that every single Chrysler Cordoba was built in Windsor Ontario. For all our American friends who every owned or own one, they're actually a "Foreign" car! I'm currently driving a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 Cargo Van for work that was also built in Canada, but for the US Market. I bought the vehicle used out of Houston, TX! It has a speedo in MPH of course. I had to install day-time running lights to make it legal in Canada!

hemidave

Posted 2013-05-12 8:19 AM (#374788 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Nabisco

(Biil board 2.JPG)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-12 7:24 PM (#374874 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: Scotland

DownTown Memphis

(DownTownMemphisTN.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-12 7:29 PM (#374875 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Leavenworth WA

(LeavenworthWA.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-12 7:31 PM (#374876 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: Scotland

Stamford CT

(StamfordCT.jpg)

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soiouz

Posted 2013-05-12 7:38 PM (#374878 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: Montreal, Canada

A lot of talk about Canada in this thread now.. so here's three pictures taken in Quebec:

(Ste-Foy2.jpg)

(Limoilou2.jpg)

(St-Gabriel-de-Brandon2.jpg)

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Ste-Foy2.jpg (109KB - 223 downloads)
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Limoilou2.jpg (94KB - 230 downloads)
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St-Gabriel-de-Brandon2.jpg (128KB - 205 downloads)

vedette

Posted 2013-05-12 8:17 PM (#374885 - in reply to #374878)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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soiouz - 2013-05-12 7:38 PM

A lot of talk about Canada in this thread now

Here's something really unusual from Canada,a stretched '57 DeSoto

(McCallAirportCalgaryABCanada.jpg)

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McCallAirportCalgaryABCanada.jpg (79KB - 201 downloads)

Windsor59

Posted 2013-05-13 1:21 AM (#374930 - in reply to #374885)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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vedette - 2013-05-12 8:17 PM

soiouz - 2013-05-12 7:38 PM

A lot of talk about Canada in this thread now

Here's something really unusual from Canada,a stretched '57 DeSoto

Cool pic at DeSoto Airport limo

FIN ME

Posted 2013-05-13 9:55 AM (#374967 - in reply to #374740)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Chrycoman - 2013-05-11 9:02 PM
... the pro-Canadian stand.

We Canucks usually are not given to in-yer-face displays of Pro-Canadianism...but we do have our moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg

My name is Rosy...and I am Canadian.

Go, beavers.

hemidave

Posted 2013-05-13 10:40 AM (#374976 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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59 Dodge

(59 Dodge.jpg)

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kmccabe56

Posted 2013-05-13 1:17 PM (#374995 - in reply to #374524)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-10 1:06 PM

====================================================

What does goofing up a cars body panels and trim have to do with import duties ? Just build the same
cars on both sides of the border, cut out millions of dollars in tooling costs, and pass on the savings to the
buyer. How does special parts and assembly get the company around duties ???

Now that there's "Free trade", what you've outlined is essentially what is happening. There are still some power hungry bureaucrats in Ottawa who decide they need to hoe a different row than their U.S. counterparts and insist on some things being done differently here. Daytime running lights (and how that screws up turnsignals) is the first thing that comes to mind.

The Feds in Canada didn't even allow cars to be imported at all until some time in the 1930s all in the name of promoting a "Canadian" auto industry and fear of being swallowed up by the U.S. manufacturers. Parts swapping and "badge engineering" became a necessity in order to provide at least a pretense of product variation for Canadian car buyers.

vedette

Posted 2013-05-13 8:16 PM (#375063 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: Scotland

a Distintively Canadian and French car together,sorry no FLs.

(BellevilleONTDSMeteor.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-13 8:25 PM (#375066 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Holland

(GroningenNetherlands.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-13 8:47 PM (#375074 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: Scotland

Wisconsin

(HaywardWisconsin.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-13 10:23 PM (#375101 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: Scotland

back to Canada

(Niagara Falls early60s.jpg)

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vedette

Posted 2013-05-13 10:34 PM (#375103 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: Scotland

and staying there

(NiagaraFalls.jpg)

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hemidave

Posted 2013-05-14 7:51 AM (#375142 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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City life

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Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2013-05-14 10:40 AM (#375164 - in reply to #374995)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Location: Parts Unknown

kmccabe56 - 2013-05-14 10:17 AM

Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-10 1:06 PM

Now that there's "Free trade", what you've outlined is essentially what is happening. There are still some power hungry bureaucrats in Ottawa who decide they need to hoe a different row than their U.S. counterparts and insist on some things being done differently here. Daytime running lights (and how that screws up turnsignals) is the first thing that comes to mind.

The Feds in Canada didn't even allow cars to be imported at all until some time in the 1930s all in the name of promoting a "Canadian" auto industry and fear of being swallowed up by the U.S. manufacturers. Parts swapping and "badge engineering" became a necessity in order to provide at least a pretense of product variation for Canadian car buyers.

====================================================

So, Let me see if I have this right ....

Canada has never really had any homegrown auto industry .....

So, U.S. companies want to sell cars there, but are kept from doing so unless they actually set
up factories and produce them IN Canada, or

.... face a steep import duty, Am I on track so far ?

This import duty was meant to foster homegrown cars, or if that did not develop, at least to get
outside manufacturers to build them IN Canada to create jobs and a larger tax income for the govt. ?

Still on track ?

So, this is where I get lost ....

Am I correct in understanding that this import duty ONLY applied to cars made OUTSIDE of Canada
and brought in as whole, operational vehicles ? In other words, the duty was added to a 58 Custom
Royal (U.S. built) but not to a Crusader (Canadian built) ?

Now, I have to go sideways here, but I will tie it in later, .... A Crusader is essentially a Plymouth
with a Dodge nose and a bunch of special parts that never would have been tooled up for, manufactured,
stocked, and otherwise distributed had Mother Mopar just made regular old Dodges or Plymouths on the
Canadian manufacturing lines.

So, we have a whole lot of added expense to make up this hybrid car, and this is all done for what
reason ?

I have heard it said it was to lower costs. How does raising production costs lower sales costs ? It
doesn't cost that much more to make a DeSoto fender than it does to make a Plymouth fender, or any
other part. At least from a manufacturing standpoint, this argument is total hogwash. Just make Dodges
or Plymouths IN Canada and cut mfg. costs to a minimum and pass on the savings to the consumer,
you know ?

I am thinking there has to be another factor hiding in here, and since this whole thing runs counter to
established manufacturing logic, I suspect it comes back to some government rule ???? Did Citroen or
Mercedes alter the appearance of their cars for sale in Canada ? I can't recall ever seeing such a thing.

Why build a multiplicity of cars and trims when it just costs more for all the special mix, parts, and
logistics ???

Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2013-05-14 11:35 AM

1960fury

Posted 2013-05-14 12:16 PM (#375170 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Expert 5K+

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Location: northern germany

not sure if this is old but i thought i share. at least nice 50s B movie/paperback art:

(ant.jpg)

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Valiant_200

Posted 2013-05-14 5:51 PM (#375214 - in reply to #375170)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Veteran

Posts: 124
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There aren't a lot of giant ant movies and at first glance I thought this was poster art from the film "Them." However, a quick review of the film at IMDB revealed that this could not be the case, since "Them" was released in 1954 and in the artwork, the young lady is fleeing what would seem to be the relative safety of a 57 Plymouth. Were there any other giant ant films/books, post 57, that any of you can recall?

1960fury

Posted 2013-05-14 6:01 PM (#375216 - in reply to #375214)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Location: northern germany

not ant but "earth vs spider" features a 58 plymouth. from what i remember they crash it into a giant spider (without success)

"them", "tarantula" and last but not least "the blop" with young steve mcqueen and a 57 plymouth driving sheriff will always belong to my all time favorite movies! america in the 50s......!!!! oh boy what happened... nothings left

nothing short of a time machine can rescue me...

Edited by 1960fury 2013-05-14 6:11 PM

(earth-vs-spider-1958.jpg)

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hemidave

Posted 2013-05-15 8:24 AM (#375314 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Expert

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1958 Desoto in LA

(58 Desoto.jpg)

(58 Desoto 2.jpg)

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FIN ME

Posted 2013-05-15 9:55 AM (#375324 - in reply to #375164)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Posts: 2788
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Location: USA - KY

Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-14 10:40 AM

Canada has never really had any homegrown auto industry .....

Here's a few:

Below is a List of some Canadian car manufactureres.
Cars produced in Canada by subsidiaries of US firms have NOT been included in this list. These subsidiaries include such well known makes as Ford, Oldsmobile, Rio, Schact, Hupmobile, Willys-Overland, Studebaker, and Dodge. As well autos sometimes considered Canadian but were in fact built in the US are NOT included in this list (cars such as the Earl and Republic).

ACME 1910-11 or 1912
AMHERST 40 1911-12
ANHUT 1909-1910
BARTLETT 1914-1917
BELCOURT 1866
BELL 1916-1918
BENNETT 1905
BIRMINGHAM FLEXIBLE AXLE SIX 1922
BOURASSA 1899-1926
BRISCOE 1916
BROCK SIX 1921
BROCKVILLE ATLAS 1911-1915
BROOKS 1923-1926 or 27
CANADA 1911
CANADA BABY CAR 1914
CANADIAN 1921
CANADIAN STANDARD 1912-1913
CASE 1907
CHATHAM 1907-1908 or 09
CLINTON 1911-1918
COMET 1906-1908
CONTINENTAL
CROW 1915-1918
DART 1913-1914 or 15
DAVIS 1923-1924
DERBY 1924-1926 or 27
DICKSON/FETHERSTONHAUGH ELECTRIC 1893
DOHERTY 1897
DOMINION 1910-1911
DOMINION 1914
DUPLEX 1923
EVERY DAY 1910-1912
FALCON 1921
FLEETWOOD KNIGHT 1924
FORSTER 1920-1922
FOSS 1897
FRONTENAC 1931-1933
GALT 1911-1915
GAREAU 1909-1910
GILSON 1920-21
GLEN 1921-1922
GLOVER 1908
GRAMM 1913
GRAY 1905
GRAY DORT 1915-1925
GUY 1910-1911
HAMBRECHT 1907
HARDING 1911
IMP 1913
IROQUOIS 1906
IVANHOE 1903-1905
JULES 30 1911-1912
KEETON 1912-1915
KELLY STEAM BUGGY 1884
KENNEDY 1909-1911
LA MARNE 1921
LAVOIE 1923
LEADER 1901-1902
LEDOUX 1914
LEROY 1899-1902
LOCOMOBILE 1902
LONDON SIX 1921-1924 or 25
MARITIME SINGER SIX 1913-14
MARTIN 1905-1910
MAXMOBILE 1900
McKAY 1910-14
McLAUGHLIN 1908-1922
MENARD AUTO BUGGY 1908-1910
MERCURY 1921
MOOSE JAW STANDARD 1917
MOTTETTE 1900-1903
NEFF 1899
OXFORD 1913-1915
PARKER 1921-1923
PECK 1911-1913
QUEEN 1901-1903
REDPATH MESSENGER 1898-1903
REGAL 1914-1917
REGAL
1910
ROBERTS SIX 1921
ROSS 1911-1914
RUSSELL 1905-1915
SAGER 1910-1911
SHAMROCK 1904
STILL 1899-1900
SUPERIOR 1910
SWIFT 1911
TATE 1912-1913
TAYLOR STEAM BUGGY 1867
TUDHOPE 1908-1913
TURNBULL 1851
VICTORIAN 1896-1900
VINOT 1912-13
WALKER 1910
WEL-DOER 1912
WINDSOR, ROYAL WINDSOR
WINNIPEG 1920-1923
WRIGHT 1929

Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2013-05-15 11:30 AM (#375339 - in reply to #375324)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Location: Parts Unknown

An impressive list, for sure. I guess I should have been more clear in my statement by saying
"an enduring homegrown auto industry. By this list, only Frontenac made in past 1930, and not
by very much.

The pre-1925 era had a wild number of people making "cars" in their shops and garages. From
wagon makers to crafty guys with a little spunk.

I'd like to tell people I drive a "Moose Jaw Standard" just to see the looks I get !

imopar380

Posted 2013-05-15 3:16 PM (#375379 - in reply to #375339)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Expert 5K+

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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada

Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-15 8:30 AM

An impressive list, for sure. I guess I should have been more clear in my statement by saying
"an enduring homegrown auto industry. By this list, only Frontenac made in past 1930, and not
by very much.

The pre-1925 era had a wild number of people making "cars" in their shops and garages. From
wagon makers to crafty guys with a little spunk.

I'd like to tell people I drive a "Moose Jaw Standard" just to see the looks I get !

Actually, the Frontenac name made it back as a Ford Falcon clone in 1960, ( with different grille and trim)
then discontinued by 1961 because the Mercury Comet was available.

Edited by imopar380 2013-05-15 3:18 PM

d500neil

Posted 2013-05-15 5:01 PM (#375389 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

I just had to see what the Moose Jaw Standard looked like!

(Moose Jaw Standard.jpg)

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FIN ME

Posted 2013-05-15 6:34 PM (#375405 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Expert

Posts: 2788
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Location: USA - KY

I had to check out the "Wel-Doer". LOL

(1912_wel-doer.jpg)

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FIN ME

Posted 2013-05-15 6:52 PM (#375407 - in reply to #375339)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Expert

Posts: 2788
2000

Location: USA - KY

Doctor DeSoto - 2013-05-15 11:30 AM

The pre-1925 era had a wild number of people making "cars" in their shops and garages.

It sure did!

When I recently volunteered to work at a Concours show, I looked up the list of cars that used to be made in Ohio alone! (I think Ohio had the most manufacturers?...not certain.)

Wowza! Sure wish we had as many manufacturers to chose from these days.

Old OHIO car companies:

A

Allen (1913 Ohio automobile)
Altman (automobile)
Aluminum (automobile)
American (1902 automobile)
Anchor Buggy
Apple (automobile)
ArBenz (automobile)
Arrow (automobile)
Aultman

B

Baker Motor Vehicle
Brew-Hatcher

C

Chandler Motor Car
Coats Steam Car
Courier (automobile)
Courier Car Co
Crane & Breed

F

Flxible

F cont.

Fredonia (automobile)

G

Gerstenslager
Grant (automobile)

H

HAL (automobile)
Halladay (automobile)
Hatfield Motor Vehicle Company
Hoffman (Cleveland automobile)

J

Jordan Motor Car Company

K

Kauffman Motor Vehicle Company
Kirk Manufacturing Company (automobile company)

M

Marion (automobile)
Maxwell automobile
Elmore (automobile)

O

Owen Magnetic

P

Packard
Packard Model G
Peerless

P cont.

Pope-Toledo

R

Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing
Rauch and Lang
Royal Motor Company

S

Sandusky Automobile Company
Stearns (automobile)
Stearns-Knight
Stoddard-Dayton
Studebaker-Garford
Sun (automobile)

T

Templar automobile

W

Westcott automobile
White Motor Company
Willys
Willys-Knight
Winton Motor Carriage Company

Y

Yale (automobile)

Edited by FIN ME 2013-05-15 6:53 PM

b5rt

Posted 2013-05-15 7:36 PM (#375413 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Expert

Posts: 2519
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Location: central Illinois

The Ford motor company used quite a few of those Canadian manufacturer names for model names.

d500neil

Posted 2013-05-15 7:49 PM (#375419 - in reply to #375413)
Subject: Re: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000

Location: bishop, ca

The Wel-Doer apparently had "coaster" brakes.

hemidave

Posted 2013-05-16 7:47 AM (#375472 - in reply to #81647)
Subject: RE: Forwardlooks in old pictures/postcards

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Posts: 4654
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1971

(1971.jpg)

(1971 a.jpg)

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