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1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!
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57desoto
Posted 2007-05-20 6:32 PM (#83630)
Subject: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Took my Fireflite sedan to a local car show today. There was a guy there who I've met before but I don't really know him well. He owns several crossram cars, and is sort of known locally for that. He went out of his way to "corner" me, to tell me that he just bought a 1960 DeSoto sedan with cross-ram intakes! I never heard of such a thing, and suggested he get the build sheet, etc. He claims to have all documentation that it's an original car, factory equipped that way, and that he knows of one other that has the same setup.

You folks ever heard of this? I'm unaware of it, but I'm certainly no expert with anything but a 1957 DeSoto. Sounds like a MIGHTY rare car, if correct... He lives about a half-hour from me, so one day I may stop in to see this beast, which he says will run circles around his other cars.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2007-05-20 7:35 PM (#83632 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: RE: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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I owned a 60 Fireflite 2HT with 383 and crossrams and a 3-speed floor shift. I have seen other 60 DeSotos with crossrams. They are rare, but not entirely one-of-a-kind.

B.
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345 DeSoto
Posted 2007-05-20 7:56 PM (#83634 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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By the way, the story goes that Chrysler Division did NOT want DeSoto to have the option. Shades of the 1957 Daytona Chrysler/DeSoto feud...

Edited by 345 DeSoto 2007-05-20 7:58 PM
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G-force
Posted 2007-05-20 11:10 PM (#83651 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Yes, DeSoto had a dual-quad, ram-induction 383 option in 1960. DeSoto called it the "Ram Charge Engine." I believe this predated Dodge's use of the term "Ramcharger." The March 1960 issue of Motor Life magazine road tested a '60 Adventurer coupe with the ram engine.
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Sonoramic60
Posted 2007-05-20 11:50 PM (#83654 - in reply to #83651)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!


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G-force - 2007-05-20 11:10 PM

DeSoto called it the "Ram Charge Engine." I believe this predated Dodge's use of the term "Ramcharger."


Actually, the name "Ramcharger" came from the group of young Chrysler engineera and technicians who formed a car club in the mid-50s and called it "The Ramchargers" because most of them were working on tuned induction systems even then. Some of the groups more illustrious members:
Pete McNichol, Jim Thornton, and Al Eckstrand (I don't believe he became a member until 1961, though).
Joe Godec
'57 300C, '60 ram Fury, & '65 Fuelie Vette
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G-force
Posted 2007-05-21 1:35 AM (#83666 - in reply to #83654)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Sonoramic60 - 2007-05-20 10:50 PM

Actually, the name "Ramcharger" came from the group of young Chrysler engineera and technicians who formed a car club in the mid-50s and called it "The Ramchargers" because most of them were working on tuned induction systems even then. 

True. I meant from a marketing standpoint, Dodge didn't begin using the Ramcharger name for its hi-po engines until around '62, after DeSoto's Ram Charge was gone.  Had DeSoto survived and kept the Ram Charge name, would Dodge have been "allowed" to use the similar Ramcharger name?  Just another "what if" to ponder...



Edited by G-force 2007-05-21 4:31 AM
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57desoto
Posted 2007-05-21 7:06 AM (#83673 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Thanks, guys, for the history lesson. Guess I just never saw one of the long-ram 1960 DeSotos, so I was skeptical. Must be true!
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345 DeSoto
Posted 2007-05-21 7:18 AM (#83674 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Don't feel bad, Ed. If you go and see this gentlemans car, and the long ram set-up is on anything other than a '60 Adventurer, then it was installed by someone other than the Factory...stories or not...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2007-05-21 10:25 AM (#83687 - in reply to #83674)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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While I can't say I was there watching it being built, my crossram 60 car WAS a Fireflite, NOT an Adventurer. It was purchased / special ordered by the son of the owner of Hawk DeSoto, Inc., so there could have been some inside connections to getting a car built that might not have been so easy for the public to do.

Or, ... it could have been ordered in and outfitted at the dealership ?

What I can tell you is that I have never seen such an el strippo 60 DeSoto, especially in a 2HT. Anyone else ever see one with no back-up lights ? This one had special plugs for the holes in the body ! It had no heater, no radio, clear glass, manual steering and brakes .... but they were the UN-available 12" Chrysler brakes !

Strange things happened back then. Dealers actually used the order sheets and had cars built to spec.

B.
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FinFan
Posted 2007-05-21 3:55 PM (#83746 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!


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Well, the sales brochure, if it may help, says in the section about available engines : "POWER CHARGE (optional, all Adventurer models): same as Adventurer [it's 383 cu V8, addition by me],with cross-over ram-induction manifold, dual 4-barrel carburetors, high-performance camshaft and distributor". So it looks like at least plans were made that Fireflites will be spared from the ram engine when this text had been composed.
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345 DeSoto
Posted 2007-05-21 4:05 PM (#83748 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Doctor DeSoto,
Sounds like SOMEone was putting together a car for the Drags. VERY imaginative in 1960...
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d500neil
Posted 2007-05-21 8:19 PM (#83797 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Check out Jack Francisco's 1-of-NONE 61 Newport, on pages 2 & 3 of the Fender Tag Decoding thread, on the General Technical Discussion board!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2007-05-21 9:45 PM (#83817 - in reply to #83748)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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345 DeSoto - 2007-05-22 1:05 PM

Doctor DeSoto,
Sounds like SOMEone was putting together a car for the Drags. VERY imaginative in 1960...


*****************

Tony,

After I put the car back on the road, at several times strangers came up to me and asked me "if that car used to be around Bellingham?"

I told them it did, and they proceeded to tell me how this kid used to sit out along Hwy 99 and challenge anyone to a race against his Desoto. No less than 3 different people told me this story.

The car was found dead, stuffed into a holly tree in Bothell by a guy who wanted to trade it to me with several others for a good 61 NY'er coupe body I had. The black DeSoto crossram / stick car was too much to pass up. In fact, I thought he was a little "whacked" to offer such a trade, but he was a 300 guy and wanted that body for a rustbucket G he was hoping to restore and the DeSoto just wasn't a 300 (so it was just a parts car to him).

The "ouch" of the story was that when I thinned my herd, I settled on the 58 and sold / traded off the rest. The guy that got the car got 2 others with it. All 60 2HT's. I later heard he got into a divorce bind and had the cars hauled for scrap!

It was quite a car though. The non-synchro 3-speed made for some less-than-easy driving in Seattle's sticky stop-n-go commute. It ran a 3.23 posi, if I remember right, and really had a slingshot range in 2nd gear where the curve of the rams met the gear alignment. The most impressive race I ever put it to was up against a 396 4-speed 69-70 Nova that was built for speed. He got out ahead of me about a car length before I could grab second. That DeSoto shot past him like lightning and he never did catch up. Later he found me at a gas station and was dumbfounded at how that "big tub" kicked his #@!

Most times I just let them go. I'm not much of a racer. I prefer to just mosey along and know they can get up and go.
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De Soto Joe
Posted 2016-05-06 1:26 AM (#510921 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: RE: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Location: Seattle

Reposted from:   http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/112581/index.html?no_cache=1

 

""***Sorry, SOLD!***


***MANY, MANY More Pics & Complete Info on my Website.***

Complete car minus lenses & a few chevrons, ready for assembly w/ Many Spares.
Will need mechanical & interior restoration as required.

EXTREMELY RARE, 1st. Year for any Chrysler product w/ the Dual Quad, “Cross-Ram” or “Power Charge” engine set-up. A Groovy option that cost $283.00, a lot of Bread back then! Numbers Matching Engine, Trans & Rear w/ rust-free, straight panels. 

How RARE is this Automobile?

FIRST, it’s a Desoto. 1960 was the last year for the Adventurer & the last full production year for all Desotos. This is 1 of 4! Desoto Adventurer 2-door hardtops known with the "Power Charge" option, and the ONLY one known in this color combo that came factory-equipped with the RCA "Ultra-Fi", 45 rpm record player! (Not present but are available)

This has the 383ci, low-deck or "B" Wedge engine called the "Turbo Flash” by Desoto & in its “Ram Charge” configuration it puts out a whopping 330 hp/ 460 lbs. ft. of torque! 

Why it’s a GENUINE “Cross-Ram”/"Power Charge" Desoto

Ø *CODE 356! - Documented.

Ø Fender liners have removable panel to access rear plugs as found only on the “Cross-Ram” engine.
Ø Transmission dipstick is Factory re-routed to accommodate the Ram-Induction tunnels. 
Ø Engine Block # P38 115 (Correct 1960 “B” block & Date Range
Ø Brakes- Power - Front: 12" drums, Rear: 12” drums, specific to & required for “Cross-Ram” 

*Original IBM punch card from Chrysler Historical as pictured on Website showing the car was Factory-Equipped with the correct Code 370 – “Ultra-Fi” 45 RPM Record Player & Code 356 – “Cross-Ram”/ “Power Charge” engine w/ corresponding VIN on the card – Priceless! See a Dealer Specification Schedule on Website for more validation.

Carburetion: Complete dual AFB Carters on long aluminum, tunnel runners. Engineers called this “Resonance Supercharging”. Car has rebuilt, model- specific Hi-Performance Carter Fuel Pump.


Trim Package: Automatic Swivel Bucket Seats. Car originally had a front bench style seat, but currently has 4-Way Power, Auto Swivel Seat setup. $600 spent on having the door hinges rebuilt with custom made, stainless steel pins and specially fabricated torsion springs for opening the doors. The Bowden cables are installed so everything is set up for the automatic swivel seat feature, rear speaker, fender mounted antennae & splitter for twin rear antennae, heater, OSRV mirror, electric clock and Date-Coded SOLEX Tinted Glass all around.

Wheels/Tires: 14" with non matching tires
Rear/Drive System: 8.75" rear with 2.93 open differential
Transmission: Heavy Duty or High Performance (H suffix) TorqueFlite Three Speed, Push-Button Automatic 
Suspension: Torsion-Aire Front torsion bar & Rear leaf spring 
Exhaust: Dual

A Fantastic project with much work already done & when finished will have an inestimable value!""

 





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Attachments cd29d7ba63.jpg (136KB - 174 downloads)
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Attachments 1a831d7cc9.jpg (213KB - 185 downloads)
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60 Imp
Posted 2016-05-06 8:10 AM (#510931 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: RE: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!


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Neat to see an update on this old thread, looks like a great project, I wonder how much it sold for? I also wonder if it is legit, certainly looks like the seller or past owner went to some trouble to confirm the cars provenance.

Steve.

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60crossram
Posted 2016-05-06 9:25 PM (#510977 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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I had a chance to buy a 60 Adventurer 4 door sedan that was in a wrecking yard in the late 80s (King size auto, West of Salt lake city) , definitely an original Ramcharge optioned car. DeSoto lives !
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b5rt
Posted 2016-05-06 9:39 PM (#510978 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Seems the number of crossram 1960 DeSoto's I've seen tossed around is 92.
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60crossram
Posted 2016-05-07 2:38 PM (#511004 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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93 2-door hardtops. 38 4-door sedans. 65 4-door hardtops. Total of 196 DeSoto's with the Ram Charge option. DeSoto rules !!!
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christine-lover
Posted 2016-05-07 3:02 PM (#511005 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34485
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300XMAN
Posted 2016-05-10 7:37 AM (#511160 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!


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Steve,

I can tell you that the car is 100% authentic and fully documented as I am in the one who got the IBM punch card and you can see me in the last photo. 7203111060 was sold new in Kentucky. The DeSoto retained its original drivetrain components, but some slime ball picked most of the engine parts off before my father and I bought it. We purchased two parts cars, extra parts from Murray Park, all of the missing cross ram components and had about about $12,000 to $15,000 worth of body work performed before calling it quits. The Adventurer was in rough shape and was going to require a huge cash infusion to finish. A Pennsylvania-based, National DeSoto Club member bought the Adventurer, promptly bought another parts car and was going to finish the project. He's had it about five years.

Karl
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christine-lover
Posted 2016-05-10 12:14 PM (#511176 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Karl-

I remember seeing this car in a restoration shop in Lansdale, PA in late 2008. Then it was for sale on eBay in 2011. When did you own it?
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300XMAN
Posted 2016-05-10 6:57 PM (#511204 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!


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My father and I owned the car from the early 2000s until 2011. Yes, the Adventurer was at our old shop location in Lansdale, PA. We were hassled by the code enforcement officer about cleaning up our commercial property (customer and project cars in our fenced parking lot). We had 30 days to clean up the property to Lansdale's satisfaction or the borough was going to drag us into court. We had a matter of weeks to part out and then scrap a 1961 Chrysler 300G 2-door hardtop, 1960 DeSoto Adventurer 2-door hardtop and a 1959 Dodge Royal (2-door) Lancer. Lansdale turned hostile to certain types of businesses, so we packed up and left. The 300G and Adventurer parts were sold with the project cars and most of the 1959 Dodge parts were sold off a while ago. Whatever was leftover went to Murray Park 2 or 3 years ago.
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60crossram
Posted 2016-05-10 10:59 PM (#511221 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Well that just made my day.
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Greg P.
Posted 2016-05-26 4:38 PM (#512502 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: RE: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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So.... where is this car today?
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NicksGarage
Posted 2021-12-17 5:13 PM (#617734 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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I know this is an old thread but can anyone tell me the correct engine paint colors for the '60 DeSoto Ram Charge engine? I know the intakes are supposed to be silver and the air cleaners gold. Are the valve covers gold and the engine orange?

Thanks, Nick

Edited by NicksGarage 2021-12-17 5:15 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-12-17 8:08 PM (#617736 - in reply to #617734)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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NicksGarage - 2021-12-17 2:13 PM
I know this is an old thread but can anyone tell me the correct engine paint colors for the '60 DeSoto Ram Charge engine? I know the intakes are supposed to be silver and the air cleaners gold. Are the valve covers gold and the engine orange?


Not that brochures have the definitive answer BUT...the 1960 Desoto brochure seems to show silver ram intakes, red valve covers and either gold or silver engine.



Here is a non-ram induction 2 x 4bbl 1960 Desoto done in the brochure colours (mostly):

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58coupe
Posted 2021-12-18 6:52 PM (#617759 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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Dave, the only problem with the last picture you posted is i don't believe you could get a 60 Desoto with inline duals. Either single 4 or ram induction but never say never.
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Viper Guy
Posted 2021-12-18 7:16 PM (#617762 - in reply to #83630)
Subject: Re: 1960 DeSoto with crossrams!?!?!



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You’re correct. There was no factory option with inline dual quads.
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