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Expert
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Location: Northen Virginia | I just got a set of front safety belts, for my 61 and i was wonder how to install them with out drill a hole trough the carpet and floor..TXS |
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Inactive by user's request
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | Hi Denis,
I hate to be the one to write this, but unless those safety belts are anchored through the floor as per the instructions, they will be of little use.
I work at the regional trauma center and I have seen the result of a person using seat belts which weren't anchored properly. There was one guy who tried to tie them to the underside of the front seat.
The belt moved in a collision and the guy was thrown from the vehicle. 
Are you just installing these for appearance's sake, perhaps to get a break on insurance costs, or maybe to make your passengers feel secure? Or do you plan to make them functional?
If the latter is the case, you will have to accept the fact that you will have to drill through some structural section of the car body, i.e., the floor.
I had to do this with my '59 Plymouth and will have to do so with my '59 Impala, which has one of the best floors I have ever seen on a '58-'60 GM body.
It's a fact of life if you plan to use an old car as a driver.
K.
Edited by Kenny J. 2007-05-26 10:26 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 663
Location: Oakley, Ill | I am not positive about Chrysler products of 61, but Fords have a specific place you can see on the underside of the floor for mounting of the then optional seat belts. There should be a set of instructions with the belts. There should be a real large washer that goes under the floor, and a smaller one to go above the floor. You want to mount it in sheet metal, not to the frame. The idea being that if you hit it hard enough, the floor sheetmetal will flex and take up some of the stress, but the anchor won't tear loose. Also the anchors need to be far enough back that when the seat is in the full back position, the belt won't try to move the seat forward, under extreme stress. Just what you need is that seat making the belt even tighter against your gut when trouble is already here. The anchors should be far enough apart that they are wider than where the belt goes around you. You don't want to end up with a noose around you. Don't cheat and try to mount 2 belts in 1 anchor. |
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Inactive by user's request
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | My '59 Plymouth has flat spots which were perfect for the large washers and anchoring bolts. I am willing to bet that is where both the factory and dealers would mount the belts.
There is just no other way to do it properly.
K. |
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | Txs for the tips, fortunately for all of us Ford start playing with safety belts early tharound 1955, I think that Chrysler begun few years later. The set that I have are for 1964 (Attaching the Mopar instructions manuals for 1964). The instructions tell you exactly how to installed, but in later models with the anchor holes and a bearing plate already in place FIG 3.. Like Kenny said I was planning to bolted them to seat frame OOPS, but I am going to discard that idea due to the mentioned consequences. Drill my floors is going to be hard and painful, but if not other way to do it, I am going to have to.
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Expert
Posts: 2011
Location: Ballwin, Missouri | Denis,
A little tip I've used to keep from catching the carpet fibers in the drill
and causing a huge run. Take a piece of tubing, with the OD of the bolt
hole you are going to drill, and grind the end to a sharp edge at one end.
Then you can use that to cut a neat, round, clean hole in the carpet before
you drill. You can also wrap the drill bit with masking tape, leaving only the
tip uncovered. The tape will be pushed back as you drill through the floor and
will help to keep the carpet from catching.
Good Luck |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Hemidenis, I think if you are getting this thing inspected here in V.A., you better not have those belts attatched to the seat.....(Certified state inspector)
I know the law in V.A. states that if the vehicle didn't come with seat belts, then it doesn't have to have them, but if installed However, they have to be inspected and attatched/work properly......
Just FYI..........  |
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Expert
Posts: 1302
Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | Hemidennis,
Another way to keep from raveling up your carpet with the drill bit is to take an old screwdriver, heat it up red hot with a propane torch, and melt your way through the carpet. That will also keep the carpet around the hole from unravelling at all. Just make sure you have the exact spot you want, before doing it. I drill through the sheet metal from underneath, and stop drilling as soon as the drill pokes through the metal...then do the carpet from underneath... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 444
Location: Victoria, AUSTRALIA | Hi Hemidenis,
I put seatbealt in my plymouth
had to use 1/2" thick steel plate Welded into floor ( tack welds ) 4 " x 4"
drilled a hole and welded the nut on the plate
1/2" Grade 8.8 Bolts & nuts, etc
Mounting to the floor with washers I don't believe would be ok,
but I'm downunder so laws could be different
but we usually model our laws from the US anyway.
I Cut my hole in carpet with stanley knife, then the Seat belt base squashs the carpet
down anyway can see it, and wont go anywhere
knighty
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Location: The Mile High City | I installed a four-point harness, but I avoided drilling any extra holes in the floor with a fabricated steel bar. I had hoped this was not "cheating", but now I wonder! Oh well, I suppose a lap-belt is better than nothing and shoulder belts are better than lap belts alone.
The "lower-deck" belts go around the lap, the "upper-deck" belts go over the seats, over the shoulders, and back down to the lap belt.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2007-05-29 5:35 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | These pictures came from D-500 Neil:
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PICT0009.JPG (63KB - 93 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | Txs a lot guys, the pictures help me a lot. Mine are only lap type. The only available back in the 60s.. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | THANX, mike! IMHO, seat belt installation is not Rocket-Surgery (or is that : "Brain-Science"?) .
One thing I did confirm, before drilling thru the floor (well, two-things) : I wanted to position the belts so that their insertion
was aligned with the rearmost position, of the seat-movement (the seat is moved forward, in these pics) and, that there
would be no physical obstructions to the bolting-down location.
I do not know what the gauge of the floor pan is, but, with the upper (chromed) and lower washers installed, considerable
force would be required to rip them out of the floor pan.
Which brings up the subject of what magnitude of collision would be required, to rip-out those seatbelts, from the floor.
Given that the seat backs flop forward (in 2-door models), the driver & front occupant (rear passengers have to fend for
themselves, in my car) are going to get personally acquainted with the steering wheel/column, and the dashboard, and,
maybe, the windshield, in any significant front-end impact.
I don't think that I'd necessarilly want to survive any impact that would rip-out the seat belt system.
We're also more likely to inflict more vehicular damage, than we might receive. ("Did we just hit a 'bump' in the road?")
I've written to say that , if anyone can score a mid-60's MoPar front bench seat, with its very simple and effective low-positioned seat-back
locking mechanism, it can be adapted to our cars very easily ; that is, if 'your' car is NOT a 1957 power-seat model, with that full-length
wimpy-plastic power seat switch-housing (see my pics), which obstructs access to the seat-locking-down lever .
IMHO (ii) , a locking seat back is almost as important as having seat belts installed, as it helps you to remain in control
of the car, and prevents rear occupants from becoming (partial) front seat occupants.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 528
Location: Medford Oregon | Seat belts were available as early as 1956 as optional equipment. My parents had factory seat belts in their 1956 Chrysler, and on later models. I would suspect that there is a location that the factory intended for seat belts.
Safety equipment milestones can be found at http://www.aa1car.com/library/timeline.htm |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Funny, you should mention that, Stan, because, if you look at my car's undercarriage view, you will see what might apear to BE
a dedicated seat bolt insertion-support bracket!
I never realized that that bracket-hole might have served that purpose, but, I do feel some satisfaction, in seeing how CLOSE
to that bracket-hole I elected to install my seat belt(s).
Seeing that bracket-hole now, I would definitely drill my seatbelt mounting hole through it!
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Veteran
Posts: 273
Location: Los Angeles, Ca | 55BlueHeron - 2007-05-30 2:27 PM
Seat belts were available as early as 1956 as optional equipment. My parents had factory seat belts in their 1956 Chrysler, and on later models. I would suspect that there is a location that the factory intended for seat belts.
Safety equipment milestones can be found at http://www.aa1car.com/library/timeline.htm
Correct me if I'm wrong- but I thought that the '48 Tucker came with seatbelts. I would count this. Yes, I know, the car was halted early and some may not consider it as a true production car. |
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Veteran
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Location: Tampa, FL | I addressed the carpet issue by punching an awl through the carpet into the holes I drilled, then cut a 'X' in the punched hole with a untility knife. Maybe not the cleanest way to do it, but the carpet didn't tear or unravel. Here's a shot of them in the car - it's not the best picture I have, but it's the only one I have of them online at the moment. |
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Veteran
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Location: Tampa, FL | spikemike - 2007-06-01 12:13 PM
I addressed the carpet issue by punching an awl through the carpet into the holes I drilled, then cut a 'X' in the punched hole with a untility knife. Maybe not the cleanest way to do it, but the carpet didn't tear or unravel. Here's a shot of them in the car - it's not the best picture I have, but it's the only one I have of them online at the moment.
OK, trying this again...
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mopar8.jpg (113KB - 97 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | Great job guys, i am going to drill my floor this weekend.
Yes the 1948 tucker was the first car with safety belt, and it was a good 15 years ahead of all others manufacturers on innovations and safety.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, Denis: be sure to look carefully FOR any dedicated seatbelt bolt-support-brackets, on the undercarriage side ! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 340
Location: Tacoma, WA | Andover Restraints is a good source of parts and info:
http://www.andoauto.com/seat_belts.htm
http://www.andoauto.com/hardware.htm
As long as this link works, here is someone's great web page on retrofitting belts into a '57 Chrysler: http://simplexco.com/auto/cbelt/index.html
http://simplexco.com/auto/cbelt/more.html
(A search in the archives will turn up additional information and opinions on the topic.)
Edited by Dave L. 2007-06-02 4:05 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | I checked the undercarriage today, is absolutely nothing other that plane sheet metal in that area, I must add some reinforce or something. Back to square one. |
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Safety belts installation question
