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Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2007-10-22 2:44 PM (#100838)
Subject: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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The 2004 Viper engine and Tremac 6 speed actually fit quite well.  The engine is about 6" longer than the old 318 so I will have to go with a custom radiator and electric fan, but otherwise things look like they will fit OK. The engine and transmission are all aluminum so it is much lighter and the front of the car sits about 2"higher. Now I have to hook up the fuel, cooling, and electrical so I can fire up the motor!


 





(Viper FrontN2.jpg)



(EngineN1.JPG)



(Ply L.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments Viper FrontN2.jpg (95KB - 204 downloads)
Attachments EngineN1.JPG (96KB - 203 downloads)
Attachments Ply L.JPG (96KB - 201 downloads)
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Mope R. Geezer
Posted 2007-10-22 2:54 PM (#100840 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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HOLY FANGS, Batman!  How are ya' going to keep tires on that thing?
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SCHROEDC
Posted 2007-10-22 3:05 PM (#100841 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Show us the 'chute on the back!
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jsrail
Posted 2007-10-22 7:42 PM (#100891 - in reply to #100841)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Hey Jim beautiful ride!  Where you at in Phx?  I'm up around T-Bird & Scottsdale Road.  I'd love to see your Belvy.  A couple months back a guy a few streets down from me put a Viper V10 in a '50 Merc sled.

Jay

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My58PlymouthFury
Posted 2007-10-22 8:50 PM (#100899 - in reply to #100891)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Looks awesome in there! Please keep us posted on the progress.

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Diesel45
Posted 2007-10-22 11:00 PM (#100915 - in reply to #100899)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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You will need a Jet Fighter pilots licence to use that car on the road Jim
Definitely need more pics please........NICE JOB !!!
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Resurrector
Posted 2007-10-28 7:57 PM (#101462 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted


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Awesome! What a sleeper...looking forward to hearing what cars you'll blow the doors off of with her! The car might even handle a bit better with the lighter powertrain...not so front heavy...the wide V8s with the cast iron auto's in these cars make for one HEAVY powertrain.
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d500neil
Posted 2007-10-29 8:21 PM (#101606 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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BTW, is that a Gen III or GEN IV Viper mill?
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2007-10-30 9:38 AM (#101648 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Thanks for all the comments! I installed a Gen 3 engine. Now that it has cooled off in Arizona I should be able to make some more progress with getting the fuel and cooling system installed. The newer PS pump puts out more pressure but I found a pressure adjustment valve that should allow me to use the original PS box. Lots of new hoses, especially when I hook up the AC! I also need to do a disk brake conversion and decide whether to put a dana 60 in the rear or a beefed up 8 3/4. I want it to look as original as possible so will probably go with some smoothie wheels and possibly some wide whites. The Money Pit!
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d500neil
Posted 2007-10-30 3:38 PM (#101677 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Jim: you DO have a Sure Grip limited slipper, on there, right?

With the Tremec, you can easily run a 3.55 (with the non-tubbed rear, traction is going to be a problem, anyway, with relatively skinny tires, so you
might as well hook-up, using a 'high-ish' rear end) unless you just want to burn rubber, & go nowhere fast!

I think that a late 60's non-tapered 8 3/4" rear axle is the way to go, with the limited traction that you WILL have, from that
engine!!! Limited traction is 'easy' on a rear end, anyway; right?




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Big Jimbo
Posted 2007-10-30 4:06 PM (#101682 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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I have the original open rear in the car but don't plan on using it. I talked to a local guy who builds rear ends an he told me they make a nodular iron center he could build with a posi unit and the newer axles that should hold up with the tires I could use. The 3.55 sounds like it would be a good ratio. 6th gear in the Tremec is 0.5 so it would really cruise at a low RPM. The fellow who mounted the motor for me builds funny cars and he thinks the frame will easily handle the 510 horsepower, and he has built early 60's Mopars that have gone 140mph with stock front suspension! He told me I should take this one up to the Bonneville Salt Flats when I get it done to see how fast it will go! Not with ME driving! (I wonder what the speed record is for a FL car?)
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d500neil
Posted 2007-10-30 4:36 PM (#101686 - in reply to #101682)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Mine, is around 105 (on street radials).

Yep; 3.55:1 Sure Grip should be just the ticket, for a nice 3rd gear get-away. Hooking-up, is where races are won, not in tire smoke.

I'm running a 2.76 (open) rear end in mine; now, THAT is a Bonneville ratio !!!


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finnedandthefuryous
Posted 2007-10-30 8:17 PM (#101747 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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This is so cool, Im glad someone exists with the right combination of funds, skill and sickness(in the best way possible) to create this beast. Time to start saving,hahaha
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2007-10-31 7:53 PM (#101843 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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You've got the sickness part right! With a 3.55 rear ratio and the 0.5 ratio in 6th gear, it gives a calculated top speed of 252 MPH at redline! Maybe I had better rethink those wide whitewalls and plan on the 6 piston Willwoods! (the truth is I will probably never drive it over 100 MPH, but it will be fun to be able to do it 3rd gear)
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d500neil
Posted 2007-10-31 8:21 PM (#101851 - in reply to #101843)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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AH, but, it WILL be fun to get up TO 100 mph....(or whatever the posted speed limit may be!)
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tuske427
Posted 2007-11-03 3:41 PM (#102065 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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I am very jealous! Awesome, awesome , awesome. Had funds permitted, this is how I would have set my car up.
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d500neil
Posted 2007-11-03 3:47 PM (#102067 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Yeahbutt: could KoKo drive it?
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RoyalGate
Posted 2007-11-04 6:34 AM (#102109 - in reply to #101843)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Big Jimbo - 2007-10-31 6:53 PM

You've got the sickness part right! With a 3.55 rear ratio and the 0.5 ratio in 6th gear, it gives a calculated top speed of 252 MPH at redline! Maybe I had better rethink those wide whitewalls and plan on the 6 piston Willwoods! (the truth is I will probably never drive it over 100 MPH, but it will be fun to be able to do it 3rd gear)


As an X-Vpier Tech I can attest to the fact that they will go WAY over 100 mph in third gear.
I don't know what the top end speed would be as I never had the area or balls to leg one out
and see just how fast it would go. I know my brother-in-law used to race his Viper and said
the speedometer didn't go far enough. At some of the bigger tracks he raced at he could peg
the speedo any time he wanted to. Just keep in mind, the Viper had the suspension, steering,
and brakes to handle that kind of speed and power.

I love that set-up you are putting together. What a sleeper you are going to have.
Good Luck.
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tuske427
Posted 2007-11-09 11:31 PM (#102743 - in reply to #102067)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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d500neil - 2007-11-03 12:47 PM

Yeahbutt: could KoKo drive it?


Yeah, I'd let her drive it. She's respectful, and would not floor it if I advised her not to.

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plymouth58
Posted 2007-11-10 6:22 PM (#102831 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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That car is beautiful, I think the wheels totally set that car off. To me it kinda gives it a touch of class or something, not that the original was not total class but it just looks wonderful with that color and not to mention how it will look at a show with the hood up. Wonderful job.
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old mopar guy
Posted 2007-11-13 8:58 AM (#103084 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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In the word of my father 20
something years ago when i opened the hood of my 57 plymouth with a 413 cross ram
"WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO PULL A TRAILER?" Looks great an amazing job ! Keep us posted!
HAPPY MOTORING!!!!
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2007-12-17 10:04 AM (#107472 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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I needed to install an electric fuel pump for the new engine in my 59 Plymouth and wanted to go with an in-tank electric pump.  The original tank is not deep enough for one so I have been looking for a replacement.  The cheapest custom tank I could find was $700, but I found an off the shelf tank that does fit and still allows me to use the left fender filler!  A company called Tanks Inc in Minnesota had a tank they sell for 1941-48 Ch**ys that does fit.  It is model 48CG and retails for $195.  You can also use it with your original fuel pump if you don't want to install an electric.  To get it to mate up with the fender filler I had to buy their straight filler neck (2-FN) because the one that comes with the tank has the wrong angle to fit in the hole for the filler pipe.  A two inch diameter rubber hose connects the two.  I was able to rebend my original tank straps to hold it in place.  The new tank is not as long, but is roughly the same width and it is deep enough for the high pressure electric pump for FI.  The next project is to fit a radiator!



(DSC02832.JPG)



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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-04-02 3:49 PM (#123399 - in reply to #107472)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Progress Update on my crazy project.
I needed to rebuild my front suspension and after removing everything I decided to completely finish the mechanical part of my project. I never want to take that front end apart again! I had so much apart I decided to drop out the frame and get everything blasted and powdercoated. It really turned out great!
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-04-02 3:51 PM (#123400 - in reply to #123399)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Pictures



(Dirtyframe1.JPG)



(PdrCt Frame1.JPG)



(PdrCt Susp.JPG)



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Attachments Dirtyframe1.JPG (15KB - 173 downloads)
Attachments PdrCt Frame1.JPG (14KB - 167 downloads)
Attachments PdrCt Susp.JPG (15KB - 179 downloads)
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Kenny J.
Posted 2008-04-02 4:00 PM (#123402 - in reply to #123400)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Funny how one thing can lead to another, eh?

But in your case, it was time well spent. Looks great.

K.
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-04-02 5:47 PM (#123422 - in reply to #123402)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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You've got that right Kenny J!  I went to bolt things back together on my pretty frame and my nuts and bolts now look awful.  I put them in my rock tumbler and they cleaned up really well.  I now have them over at a plating shop to get them zinc coated.  Where will it all end?  Either when it is all finished or when I go broke trying!
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Kelly
Posted 2008-04-04 11:12 AM (#123693 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Holy Cow!!! I wish i did that with my Coronet!!! That car will be an absolute hoot at Pavilions when you get it together!!!
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narleycharlie
Posted 2008-04-04 7:26 PM (#123734 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Great job so far , Dam . I wish I were close enuff just to come and help and see that BEAST in person . You got any lines on a radiator yet ? How big is that fuel tank you went with , my 59 has the 18 gal , and I just hate stopping for a fill up . My Ram truck has a 35 gal , thats what I m talkin about . When you get a chance , post some pics of the car overall if you don t mind . Keep up the good work .
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-10-04 9:09 PM (#146926 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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I finally made some progress on the 59 Plymouth! After a 3 month wait for the front Wilwood disc conversion I finally have it installed. I also got a radiator made by a guy in AZ with the 3" inlet and outlet for the Viper, and the guy who installed the engine welded up some custom brackets to mount the radiator to the core support. I will post some pictures of this after I get the engine back in the car. Now that I have the brakes installed I can put it back in. I also got a custom wiring harness built for the engine so it will function like a stand alone crate engine and be seperate from the car's wiring harness. The gas tank is about 18 gallons. It is amazing how many things there are to "customize" when building a hot rod project.  Much more work than I had imagined.  Thanks for the words of encouragement!



(Interior pedals em.jpg)



(CaliperMtdEM.jpg)



(M cyls em.jpg)



(SteeringboxEM.JPG)



(Wheel EM.jpg)



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Attachments Interior pedals em.jpg (48KB - 178 downloads)
Attachments CaliperMtdEM.jpg (63KB - 161 downloads)
Attachments M cyls em.jpg (42KB - 160 downloads)
Attachments SteeringboxEM.JPG (66KB - 159 downloads)
Attachments Wheel EM.jpg (65KB - 162 downloads)
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StillOutThere
Posted 2008-10-04 10:03 PM (#146928 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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I have a friend who has a late model Viper engine and trans for sale if anyone else wants to start a project.  Location is Helotes, TX.
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dukeboy
Posted 2008-10-04 10:09 PM (#146930 - in reply to #146928)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Wonder why no one has mentioned the gas mileage thing with the Viper engine like they do when I mention a 440?


488 C.I., 10 cylinders, gotta be worse than a 440, even fuel injected...............................

Edited by dukeboy 2008-10-04 10:11 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-10-05 2:35 AM (#146942 - in reply to #146930)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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dukeboy - 2008-10-05 7:09 PM

Wonder why no one has mentioned the gas mileage thing with the Viper engine like they do when I mention a 440?


**********************

Prolly cuz owning a 440 Mopar was not that uncommon a phenom in the 70's for many people. Lots of people know how those engines thirst. How many folks are familiar with the ins and outs of a Viper ?

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dukeboy
Posted 2008-10-05 9:51 AM (#146966 - in reply to #146942)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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The WOW factor must outwiegh the gas mileage, as it still don't change the end result any....
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-10-06 5:39 PM (#147109 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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The Viper was rated at 12 City and 21 Highway, so the milage with the Viper engine shouldn't be worse that the old 318 Poly.  With the computerized fuel injection and the 6th gear being a 0.5 ratio overdrive the highway milage does really well.  But I am building it to melt tires, not for good milage :cool:  Yesterday I installed the engine and trans back in, so hopefully will get the radiator mounted next weekend. 
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58sprtsuburban
Posted 2008-10-09 11:45 PM (#147592 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted


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Hey Jim,

It's looking great! Its nice to see the progress you've made in spite of the heat we've had here this summer..Your original 318 that I bought from you is still sitting on the engine stand thats how much progress I've made!! I lose all motivation here during the summer.. Would love to see your car again when it's done... Karl
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SavySavoy
Posted 2008-10-15 8:53 PM (#148382 - in reply to #147592)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted


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Sweet, nothing but pure sweet unadulterated horsepower and speed coming together. You're gonna love it when you're done.
My nephew has a Viper that he lets me drive when we go visit. 115 mph in 3rd went by real fast & I quit looking at the speedo when it went by 150. Yeah you're gonna smoke 'em.



(scan0015.JPG)



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Attachments scan0015.JPG (161KB - 169 downloads)
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dukeboy
Posted 2008-10-15 8:56 PM (#148384 - in reply to #147109)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Big Jimbo - 2008-10-06 5:39 PM

The Viper was rated at 12 City and 21 Highway,   But I am building it to melt tires, not for good milage :cool: trans . 



Big Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself.....The car is looking good BTW....Gotta love the hood poppin' on that one at the local cruise....WOW!

Edited by dukeboy 2008-10-15 8:57 PM
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-11-22 10:11 AM (#152953 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Major progress!  I finally got my radiator and fan constructed and mounted.  I wanted the largest possible radiator I could fit but was limited by how think the fan could be.  The radiator is a triple core cross flow and the dual fan is from a Dodge Durango.  I had to do major surgery on the core support so I welded some 1/2 inch square tubing around the cut-out area to stiffen it up.  I can also use this to mount the AC condensor.  It is a close fit but I made it!  I also got the fuel lines hooked up.  There is a gauge and adjustable pressure regulator with filter on the fire wall.  I had to have a new PS hose made with a fitting to hook up to the viper PS pump. 



(New Rad Front EM.jpg)



(New Rad Rear EM.jpg)



(LEngineEM1.jpg)



(EngineFan close fit.jpg)



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Attachments New Rad Front EM.jpg (138KB - 167 downloads)
Attachments New Rad Rear EM.jpg (140KB - 163 downloads)
Attachments LEngineEM1.jpg (131KB - 160 downloads)
Attachments EngineFan close fit.jpg (128KB - 174 downloads)
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Bart_59_Dodge
Posted 2008-11-22 11:49 AM (#152962 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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I wonder how a V10 truck engine would work in an application like this?
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Evil_Fury
Posted 2008-11-22 12:20 PM (#152968 - in reply to #152962)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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HOLY CRAP BATMAN!! That is awesome Jim..
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wizard
Posted 2008-11-22 1:20 PM (#152977 - in reply to #152953)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Impressive work really, I bet that one's gonna fly!
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dukeboy
Posted 2008-11-22 2:07 PM (#152978 - in reply to #152977)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Big Jim, You know what's wierd? Except for the length issues, that Viper engine fits better than my 440 did?!

Nice, VERY nice work...I know all to well how much time and planning goes into something like this and you've done very well....I don't know that I'd have tackled this one myself....My hats off to'ya...
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La tortuga
Posted 2008-11-22 4:22 PM (#153000 - in reply to #152978)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted


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It probably just me but look at that motor in there through the eyes of the styling at that time the v10 looks more at home in there then a big block mopar or hemi.
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Bart_59_Dodge
Posted 2008-11-22 5:32 PM (#153015 - in reply to #153000)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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La tortuga - 2008-11-22 3:22 PM It probably just me but look at that motor in there through the eyes of the styling at that time the v10 looks more at home in there then a big block mopar or hemi.

 

OK... Im squinting at the picture.... and I think you're right. It DOES look great.

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badboykurza
Posted 2008-11-23 4:30 AM (#153105 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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OMG that is sensational bro, im surprosed it fitted, it will go like the clappers
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-11-26 6:20 PM (#153532 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Thanks for the words of encouragement! The engine is a little narrower and lower (and a lot lighter) than the old 318 Poly, but about 8 inches longer. Except for the length it is similar in size to a small block chevy. This is the first hot rod I have done, and it is a lot harder than a restoration. Every single piece takes a lot of thought and scrounging to get it right. Even something a simple as radiator hoses is a struggle since both upper and lower are 2". After much digging, I found some NASCAR ones I can piece together. I figure in about another month or so I will be able to see if I can get it started. Then just the exhaust system and rear end rebuild and it should be drivable. My goal is to get it drivable before the AZ summer and temps over 100!
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badboykurza
Posted 2008-11-27 2:16 AM (#153569 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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it will go fast, a video would be great
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MoparBrew
Posted 2008-11-27 8:24 AM (#153587 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Posts: 456
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Location: Brooklyn NY
Everybody is always saying they can't get headders to fit FL cars without major mods, those factory headders on that V10 fit with room to spare! What brand or who made that radiator, it's freakin beautiful and I like its mounting system alot. Great Work......Ralph from Brooklyn
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Big Jimbo
Posted 2008-11-28 6:44 PM (#153750 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: RE: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



Veteran

Posts: 172
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

I spent a couple of months planning the radiator and fan because I live in Phoenix and want to run AC.  I wanted the largest possible unit that would fit.  The radiator was built by McCulloch Fabricating in Kingman AZ, http://www.alumrad.com/ and they did a great job making it exactly like I requested.  I also looked for the thinnest most powerful fan I could find because of the long engine and limited space.  The best one I could find was from Delta Current Control http://www.dccontrol.com/0820.htm and it has an amazing temp control unit for multispeed fan control.  It is very easy to wire and use with AC.  I will definitely video when I try to start this beast.  I have some volunteers to man the fire extinguishers!

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narleycharlie
Posted 2008-11-30 11:14 AM (#153880 - in reply to #100838)
Subject: Re: Viper Engine in my 59 Belvedere Finally Mounted



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Location: Slidell La.
Is the Viper engine a 90 degree or something else , GM had those 60 degree motors in the 80s , they may still have them , I could care less . Just wondering . Jimbo keep doin what your doin , its working . Can t wait to hear the stoplite story when your next to a Viper and he has no idea " What Lurks Within " sounds like a good movie title .I m hopin your not going to put V10 emlems on it , well maybe on the back . Thanks for keepin us posted .
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