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What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....
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Swept57
Posted 2007-11-25 1:27 AM (#104484)
Subject: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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As the buildup to the unveiling of the Tulsa Belvedere progressed, I mentioned that there were probably on a few untouched FL era vehicles in existance and I sited this 35 mile 1959 Impala but at the time I didn't know where the article was. Well I found it this weekend. The article was in the Sep/Oct 1991 issue of Cars and Parts Muscle Cars of the 60's and 70's. It was still owned by the original owner and this one was ordered right. 348 Tri-Power with Police Package.

Does anyone know of any other FL era vehicles like this?





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fintastic57
Posted 2007-11-25 1:27 PM (#104529 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: RE: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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Back years ago, maybe late 70's or early 80's ? The news in some Old Car publications featured a find in Texas I beleive. A dealer there took his leftover cars at the end of the model year and stashed them in a building behind the dealership. They were discovered at this time and eventually sold. I think I remember a 55 Dodge hardtop being sold for the then astronomical sum of $10,000.00. Anyone remember more info about this. I seem to remember there were about 15-20 New Plymouths and Dodges from the 50's. Dick
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1955Coronado
Posted 2007-11-25 1:40 PM (#104531 - in reply to #104529)
Subject: RE: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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fintastic57 - 2007-11-25 11:27 AM

Back years ago, maybe late 70's or early 80's ? The news in some Old Car publications featured a find in Texas I beleive. A dealer there took his leftover cars at the end of the model year and stashed them in a building behind the dealership. They were discovered at this time and eventually sold. I think I remember a 55 Dodge hardtop being sold for the then astronomical sum of $10,000.00. Anyone remember more info about this. I seem to remember there were about 15-20 New Plymouths and Dodges from the 50's. Dick


Yep. It was in "Cars and Parts" magazine, 1984 or 1985 I believe. I used to have the issue, but it's been lost somewhere along the way.

I remember the article, though - it was that issue's cover story. The former MoPar dealer had at least 1 car for every year from 1947-1962 in one of those oblong "barns" - brought there & parked, basically, straight from the showroom floor or not long after. They'd opened it up after his passing and found over 20 cars. The cover car that issue was a '55 Dodge CR 4 door sedan - a red/black/white tri-tone beauty with 117 original miles - that the new owner proudly showed off after the auction.
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Resurrector
Posted 2007-11-25 8:51 PM (#104568 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: RE: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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This was at the Auto Collection in Vegas a couple weeks ago...a 1957 Ford fairlane 500 Retractable with 80 miles, original!! The car was awesome to see in person, it literally looked new, save for a few tiny touch-ups of paint chips on the door, etc. Even the tires are original. And it's the top model, unbelievable. Usually cars in this condition are 4 door sedans. The price? A mere $155,000 bucks or so.

Edited by 58dodgeregent 2007-11-25 8:57 PM




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Swept57
Posted 2007-11-25 9:04 PM (#104574 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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How did this one end up with only 80 miles? I'd like to hear the story!
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Resurrector
Posted 2007-11-26 9:26 AM (#104617 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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I wish I knew the story on it too, but they didn't say.
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57plymouth
Posted 2007-11-26 10:19 AM (#104625 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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It broke every 1/2 mile, then was towed back to the dealership. When the warranty expired, the car was parked.

At least it sounds good to me!
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Rebels-59
Posted 2007-11-26 11:38 AM (#104635 - in reply to #104625)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Maybe the Owner took a good look at the front End and thought the Car wasn,t Finished .. !!!!!!!!!
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lawrence
Posted 2007-11-26 11:44 AM (#104638 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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I like this one.

http://www.proteam-corvette.com/entombed.html
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big m
Posted 2007-11-26 1:06 PM (#104653 - in reply to #104529)
Subject: RE: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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fintastic57 - 2007-11-25 10:27 AM

Back years ago, maybe late 70's or early 80's ? The news in some Old Car publications featured a find in Texas I beleive. A dealer there took his leftover cars at the end of the model year and stashed them in a building behind the dealership. They were discovered at this time and eventually sold. I think I remember a 55 Dodge hardtop being sold for the then astronomical sum of $10,000.00. Anyone remember more info about this. I seem to remember there were about 15-20 New Plymouths and Dodges from the 50's. Dick


Dick, I remember reading about that find as well.

At least one of the cars belongs to a member of this site, Jeff Pozniak [Furious J]
He owns a white '58 Belvedere 4-door sedan from that collection. ---John
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d500neil
Posted 2007-11-26 7:23 PM (#104721 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Jeff's pic appears to have been taken at the Imperial Palace car museum (and sales-lot!!!), in Vegas ;
for those who might be considering the Vegas FWDLK 'reunion-get-together' , it's a must-see venue.
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lawrence
Posted 2007-11-26 7:27 PM (#104723 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Are you trying to say that Pozniak is going to Vegas with his car, Neil? Is that what I just readed? I can call him and see you know.
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d500neil
Posted 2007-11-26 8:09 PM (#104737 - in reply to #104723)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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heheheheh---I dunno! Didn't he just say, above, that he was just THERE (at the museum)?
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Resurrector
Posted 2007-11-26 8:34 PM (#104741 - in reply to #104737)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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You're right Neil, I was in Vegas at the Imperial Palace - couldn't remember the name of the hotel. That collection was one of the highlights for me, in Vegas. There was a John D'agustino car there, a Caddy that blew me away!!! Never seen one of his cars in person...beautiful paint.

Edited by 58dodgeregent 2007-11-26 8:49 PM




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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2007-11-27 4:27 PM (#104838 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: RE: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Swept57 - 2007-11-25 12:27 AMAs the buildup to the unveiling of the Tulsa Belvedere progressed, I mentioned that there were probably on a few untouched FL era vehicles in existance and I sited this 35 mile 1959 Impala but at the time I didn't know where the article was. Well I found it this weekend. The article was in the Sep/Oct 1991 issue of Cars and Parts Muscle Cars of the 60's and 70's. It was still owned by the original owner and this one was ordered right. 348 Tri-Power with Police Package.Does anyone know of any other FL era vehicles like this?
I remember seeing one 1959 Ch3vy Impala with the 348 ci V-8 and 4 speed at the Volo Auto Salesroom in Volo, IL this past summer. Although I'm no bow-tie lover it was a very nice restoration. The price was pretty awesome too. They currently are advertising two 1959 Chebbies (both red) with the 348 V-8/4-speed manual box on their web site at:

http://www.volocars.com/showroom/showroom_d.php?id=12417&nhs=42&make=CHEVROLET&show=&model=&eyear=&syear=&sprice=&eprice=

One is priced to sell at $49,998 and the other one is a cream puff at only a measley $85,000



Edited by 58 DESOTOS RULE 2007-11-27 4:31 PM
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MoparsRule!
Posted 2007-12-01 3:12 AM (#105383 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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Wow those low mileage cars in the photos here are beautiful, and it's hard to believe they have gone through 40-50 years or so still looking brand new like a completely restored car. A '57 Plymouth with only 7 original miles yet in very bad shape, what an oxymoron LOL!
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Kenny J.
Posted 2007-12-01 7:21 AM (#105402 - in reply to #104838)
Subject: RE: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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58 DESOTOS RULE - 2007-11-27 1:27 PM

One is priced to sell at $49,998 and the other one is a cream puff at only a measley $85,000


I'm going to let you in on a dirty little secret about '59 Chevrolet four speed cars. While there were more built than most people realize, it isn't likely their survival rate was as good as it appears.

'59 Ch*vys (and I own two) have a "love it or hate it" style. They were dirt cheap going into the 1980s, unless you found the oddball tri-power or fuel injected four speed two door or convertible.

Here's the dirty little secret....................find a run of the mill '59 Impala with a three on the tree, get the upper parts of a '60-'66 Ch*vy truck steering column, blend them together, grind the 2nd-3rd shift rods pivot off the frame, find a Borg-Warner T-10 and the front drive shaft section from any '59 with an overdrive and you can duplicate a factory four speed car and also dupe an unsuspecting buyer in the process. The floor shifter handles were repopped in the 1990s and unless you really know what to look for, you can be had.

I remember walking through various salvage yards during the 1990s and wondering why all the granny low C-10s and C-20s had no upper steering column parts.

K.
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Kenny J.
Posted 2007-12-01 7:37 AM (#105408 - in reply to #105402)
Subject: RE: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Actually, it might be the '60-'63 truck column pieces could be used to build authentic looking four speed '59-'62 passenger cars and the '64-'66 truck column pieces could be used to build authentic looking four speed '63-'64 passenger cars......but you get the idea.

K.
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d500neil
Posted 2007-12-03 3:59 PM (#105766 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Kenny; I know this ain't a Chebbie forum, but, generally, is there any 'numbers' on a 59 Chubbie, which would I'D it as a real 4-speed model?

What about the Broadcast Sheet (availability) or a factory document (ditto) on the car's build-up?
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Kenny J.
Posted 2007-12-03 8:12 PM (#105797 - in reply to #105766)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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The broadcast sheet would give it away, but if it's "lost", date codes aren't as reliable as one would believe. They are relatively easy to restamp. Some casting numbers were used over a span of several years.

Back then, Chevrolet wasn't as meticulous about everything being stamped and labeled consistently. In fact, a lot of six cylinder cars left the factory with V-8 body codes. Plus, there were a number of dealer conversions. Guy buys an Impala coupe with a hot 283 or 348 and a three speed, but decides a Borg-Warner T-10 is better than the Saginaw three speed. He returns and pays for a swap. Or a guy is willing to pay a premium for a four speed 348 Tri-Power coupe, but none are available, and the buyer doesn't want to wait for a special order, so a three speed car is converted from lot inventory....change the tranny, upper colum pieces, differential gears and he's set. Sure, there's that pesky 2nd-3rd shift pivot bracket, but a "restorer" can remove it and smooth out the frame.

It was funny. Pontiac kept meticulous build data on each car. Chevrolet didn't do as well in that regard until some years later. Maybe being a high volume producer made such record keeping impractical.

There were codes stamped on an engine which indicated which tranny was to be used, etc. But people have forged these cars, using the parts I mentioned above. I would pay Bill Reid, a well known '59-'60 Chebby expert, or John Mahoney, an expert on all '58-'64 full size Chebbys to look over one of those cars before I'd shell out $85,000 for one!

K.

Edited by Kenny J. 2007-12-03 8:15 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2007-12-03 8:35 PM (#105802 - in reply to #105797)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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...That's (not) funny....but, MoPar made it a high priority, on the P/T plates (even) to record whether a car had a manual,
PowerFlite, or Torqueflite trannie.

In fact, the options that were recorded on the P/T plate were not always the most 'important' ones, each year, and the
options, and their sequencing, on the P/T plates vary from year to year, so, knowing one year's P/T plate coding will
not allow you to 'crack' another year's coding.





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ebbsspeed
Posted 2007-12-04 12:27 PM (#105878 - in reply to #105802)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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So what's the status of the Belvedere? Did they ever dip it in that miracle rust remover? Or did it disappear when they dipped it?
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57plymouth
Posted 2007-12-04 12:50 PM (#105879 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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It is on it's way to being dipped.
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wizard
Posted 2007-12-04 2:45 PM (#105895 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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In my humble opinion, this is supposed to be a MoPar forum?!? What with all those Henry Wrecks and General Manure rickshaws?
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d500neil
Posted 2007-12-05 1:31 AM (#105974 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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I think this thread is a way to sort-of beat ourselves
'up', over the ultimate fate of Ms. Belvie.

Like, picking at a festering sore.

Or, swimming in "De Nial" (or is that like : drinking in the Ganges?)

NAH, I'm not bothered by what's going to be done to the car; let's talk Chebbies.....





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moparjimmy
Posted 2007-12-05 3:15 AM (#105981 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Hey KennyJ Me thinks you know way to much of those chebbies man, calm down, breath deep, and think real fins. There I hope that spell has passed. Hey Neil you to Breath deep, oh you get the picture LOL.

Jimmy
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Kenny J.
Posted 2007-12-08 4:24 AM (#106394 - in reply to #105981)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Sorry, Jimmy, but I have a soft spot in my heart for '58-'64 X-frame Chevrolets.

But with a '59 Plymouth wagon and a '68 Imperial for road duty, my '59 Impala won't be hitting the streets again any time soon.

I may push that Impala further to the back burner as I really ought to get my '72 Satellite Sebring back on the road. My folks bought it new and it was my first car.

The Imperial and Satellite Sebring don't have fins, but at least they are Mopars!

K.
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moparjimmy
Posted 2007-12-12 2:03 AM (#106852 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Hey Kenny thats Kool I still have my High school car It's a 73 Charger (non SE) I to want to get it going again I got 14 tickets in one summer, I raced every thing I could LOL those were the days. I guess every one cant be perfect I was raised on furds and still like alot of them but my heart is MoPar.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-19 2:40 PM (#130596 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Hey, Rusty; you wouldn't have happened to have met Mr. Sam Hobby? He used to post here.

My parents owed two Fart-mobiles in the 60's, but dad had-to, as he insured a Fart dealership.
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-05-19 2:43 PM (#130598 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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He's only here to ruffle feathers.

Although he did promise to send me graphics so I could copy a shirt he made. I'm still waiting for the graphics...

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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-19 2:46 PM (#130599 - in reply to #130596)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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d500neil - 2008-05-19 2:40 PM

Hey, Rusty; you wouldn't have happened to have met Mr. Sam Hobby? He used to post here.

My parents owed two Fart-mobiles in the 60's, but dad had-to, as he insured a Fart dealership.



Hmmm....

-NM
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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-19 2:53 PM (#130603 - in reply to #130599)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Nathan D. Manning - 2008-05-19 7:46 PM

d500neil - 2008-05-19 2:40 PM

Hey, Rusty; you wouldn't have happened to have met Mr. Sam Hobby? He used to post here.

My parents owed two Fart-mobiles in the 60's, but dad had-to, as he insured a Fart dealership.



Hmmm....

-NM


Maybe Mike Did.. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


.
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-19 3:30 PM (#130617 - in reply to #130603)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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Rebels-59 Coronet - 2008-05-19 2:53 PM
Maybe Mike Did.. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
.


I spoke with Mike just a few minutes after he left Ultra One (U-O / Uh-Oh!)...

Jokingly, one of the first questions I asked him was, "Was Mr. (Steve) Hobby there consulting?"
Mike assured me that S.H. was nowhere to be found on the Uh-Oh! campus last Friday...

Meanwhile, Dwight did acknowledge: "Oh yeah... Steve's been around to SEE the car a few times."

-NM
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My57Saratoga
Posted 2008-05-19 3:49 PM (#130624 - in reply to #130617)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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Yep, I asked Dwight if Messr. Hobby had been there....like Nathan said, he'd been around but I got the feeling the term "consultant" is a wee bit overstated....

Mike
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-05-19 4:13 PM (#130631 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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What, Steve Hobby lied about something?

IMPOSSIBLE!!!

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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-19 5:49 PM (#130649 - in reply to #130624)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



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My57Saratoga - 2008-05-19 8:49 PM

but I got the feeling the term "consultant" is a wee bit overstated....

Mike


No $hit,, Go post it on his website................. LMAO

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rusty shita
Posted 2008-05-19 9:02 PM (#130679 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....


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no neil i dont know anyone here except for a few of the cool folks that i met in tulsa. dont think i met you . i was busy though, perving at the mall, seeing the east side, riding buses and taxis, getting loaded at mcnallys. i didnt know what stroud was, still dont . had i known about the welcoming committee i would be an expert on it now. that fulla dwight ought to be ashamed of himself doing that to the car. what is he thinking . that car should have been sold to the guy who wanted to preserve it . end of story.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-20 6:48 PM (#130849 - in reply to #104484)
Subject: Re: What the Tulsa Belvedere might have been....



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Yeah, Sam; too bad we-all couldn't have met up somewhere in Tulsa.

Where did you stay, there?

Some of us stayed at the Doubletree, some at the close by Crown Plaza, and some were at a Motel 8, or someplace,
and some people stayed 50 miles away, in Stroud, OK.

Glad you were there, to share memories with us!

To anyone who was not in Tulsa, last year: there will never be any other FWDLK event like that one, any time in your
lifetime!



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