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Location: Adelaide Australia | swept57, theres a pic of your wagon on this site! http://www.histomobile.com/1/Plymouth/1960/Suburban_.htm this is not the site where the person was trying to locate your suburban (cant seem to find that site again) but when you do get pics of your wagon, please email me some would still love to see them! cheers adriana |
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Location: Perry, OK | Next project........its rough.
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Location: Seville, OH | Adriana,
That picture was taken in front of Jerry Junemann's (sp?) Mopar museum in Hayes Kansas. I don't know if that museum is still open, but Jerry had some fantastic MoPars. He had seen the wagon running around locally for years and tracked down the owner to buy it because he was sure it would otherwise end up a derby car. The guy he bought it from used it as a fishing wagon, but if you could see what he had etched into both quarter windows, he used it for a little more than fishing. I bought the car from Jerry through an ad in a MoPar magazine.
Also, there use to be a web site run by a guy named Dave (Smith maybe) devoted only to 1961 Plymouth Suburbans. It was a cool site and he had the same picture on the site with an inquiry as to who owned it. I told him I had it. The site was developing nicely then just disappeared a number of years ago.
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | oh nice wagon todd! great to see another 2door suburban! have you talked to a guy called bill, if not you ought to cos hes got a white 2door also! is that another 2door '61 behind it?!?! dave what was etched into the windows? well least you saved it from disaster! keep those suburban pics coming everyone!! cheers adriana |
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Location: Seville, OH | A little side story on the wagon when I went to pick it up. I flew into Hayes to pick the car up and drive it back to Ohio. Jerry's place was really busy and I spent a lot of time in the museum but late in the day I hit the road. About two hundred miles into the trip back a feeling of panic overtook me because I had not checked the VIN with the title. I pulled into a rest stop and checked the numbers....not even close. I called Jerry and he told me I would have the correct title by the time I got to Ohio and I did. So... I guess I own two suburbans. But I have no idea where the other one is! |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | ive seen a few for sale that dont have a title, maybe you have the title! lol. well lucky he had the correct one or you would have been in real strife! can you tell by the title if its a deluxe or what colour it is? when i found that pic, i wondered if it was a pic of your car, cos i havent heard of another deluxe wagon or any '61 suburban for that matter with the airforce blue. alpine white colour duo! it looks great in that colour by the way! |
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Location: Perry, OK | No that is a 60 behind the 61. It is under construction for my buddy Tom. He owns the 61 as well, but I may inherit it! We will see.
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | dave, my dad just read this blog and noticed that your suburban came from the same guy that his '62 imperial did! although his business was called wheels and spokes back then. you wouldnt have a number or contact for jerry junemann would you? he wants to try and find out some history for his '62. cos dad bought it from the guy that imported the car from junemann in kansas. how long have you had your sub? adriana |
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Location: Central New Jersey, USA | Man I love the 61's, and the 60's too. |
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Posts: 291
Location: Enfield, CT | I've been searching for a wagon for quite some time...will gladly trade one of my two sedans for a wagon!
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2008-04-23 5:18 PM
What's interesting, about this '62 wagon, is that in 1961, the CHRY wagon body was a 100% carry-over, from 1960's
finned body, but the front clip was pretty-much identical to what you see HERE, carried over to the 1962 model, and,
this 1962 wagon-body was carried-over, from the 1961 small-body wagons.
So, THIS car is PURE FWDLK!
After Mopar killed Exner's "S" series for 1962, Chrysler needed a cheap way to dump the fins for 1962. Thus they took the 1961 Dodge Polara (no fins on the doors), attached the 1961 front clip and came up with new rear quarters.
For the wagon they took the 1961 Plymouth (no fins anywhere), attached the 1961 Chrysler front clip and came up with new rear taillamps. The 1961 Plymouth wagons were on a 122" wheelbase, same as the Dart, Polara and Newport wagons. Thus the ease to convert a Plymouth wagon into a Chrysler.
When the decision was made to bring back the big Dodge, Chrysler simply took the 1962 Newport with its 1961 Polara body, 1961 Chrysler front clip and new rear quarters, and put the 1961 Dart/Polara clip back on the body. The Custom 880 wagons used the same body as the Town & Country but with that 1961 Dodge nose.
Should point out that the 1960-61 Plymouth and Dart actually shared their bodies with the Polara, DeSoto and Chrysler. The front firewall, windshield, front floorpan, rear seat floorpan, and trunk floorpan were shared by all. The extra 4" in wheelbase was all in the floor or the rear seat area. The front doors are all the same size (though the 1960-61 DeSoto/Chrysler doors had fins) while the rear doors on the 122" wheelbase models are longer than the doors on the 118" models. Thus the front clips are interchangeable - you can put a 1961 Plymouth nose onto a Dodge, DeSoto or Chrysler.
The 126" wheelbase Chryslers placed the extra 4" in the front clip. Thus you can take a 1961 New Yorker front clip and put it onto a 1961 Plymouth wagon and land up with a 126" wheelbase. Put it onto a 1961 Plymouth sedan and you have a 122" wheelbase.
The 1962 Plymouth, Dodge Dart and Polara shared a totally new body. It shared nothing with its smaller siblings (Valiant & Lancer) or the larger models (Custom 880 and Chrysler) and was, in size, between the two.
(Small note - Chrysler modified the firewall for 1962 and thus had to modify the attaching points on the 1961 Dodge & Chrysler front clips where they attach to the firewall. Thus you can swap around 1961 front clips and 1962 front clips but not place 1961 clips on a 1962 body or vice versa.)
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Location: Adelaide Australia | my god, im confused  |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | Chrycoman - 2008-05-17 3:15 PM
[
The 126" wheelbase Chryslers placed the extra 4" in the front clip. Thus you can take a 1961 New Yorker front clip and put it onto a 1961 Plymouth wagon and land up with a 126" wheelbase. Put it onto a 1961 Plymouth sedan and you have a 122" wheelbase.
i don't think so. true, all the extra lenght is in the front fender/subframe BUT the 126" wb cars have the subframe/body attaching bolts in a different location. its very hard to believe and it makes no sense but even the body dimensions are marginally different although all the trim is exchangeable. so you can't bolt the longer 126" subfame on a 118"/122" wheelbase car or vice versa, at least not a 1960. |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | i have some fabulous news! my '61 suburban is finally getting shipped the 1st june and is due to arrive here in OZ 8th july!! im so excited i cant wait! i'll be sure to post pics as soon as i get my hands on it!  adriana |
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Location: NY & VT | That's great! But what took 'em so long? You bought it like 2 months ago right? |
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Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Adelaide Australia | yes that is right, roger, and i have been waiting patiently.... its because the dollars so good, and everyones importing cars from the states at the moment, that there are containers leaving the states left right and centre, but none returning, so there is a massive queue of cars at the ports and a shortage of containers... but its finally time for my sub to make its voyage out here, i cant wait! hope everything goes to plan though! cheers adriana |
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Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Adelaide Australia | hey all! does anyone know if you can get repro rubber floor coverings for '61 subs? and also if you can get repro floor pans? (cos mine are a little rusty!) cheers adriana |
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Veteran
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Location: Perry, OK | I struck out on the rubber floor mat for the 60 Suburban. I looked all over. If you find one let me know, I ended up putting in carpet for a 2 door Sedan. Floor pans I went with X-Treme Metal Works. Their number is 978-988-8755. They are listed for a 60-62 Chrysler but they are the same, they worked out great! They have rears as well I think, all I did was front. Can provide pics if you need. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | North, East and Mid-Western cars tend to have lousy sheetmetal, but good soft/rubber pieces & trim.
Western cars have great metal parts, but petrified soft/rubber pieces & trim.
Southern cars (not near the coastline) may have the best of both 'worlds', but, probably not-great sheetmetal.
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Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Adelaide Australia | thanks 60suburban! ive been looking for the rubber floor coverings, cos thats what mine has originally, but havent had any luck finding them either. i was told that only the front floor and the spare wheel well is rusty (we'll see when it gets here!), so if i could get the floor pans it would be ace. cheers adriana |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | 19 days and my Subs due to arrive here in SA. today i recieved some paper work from the guy i bought it from which he had forgotten to put in the car... theres various paper pieces, but a few pieces that stood out to me was what i believe to be the first rego paper dated 30/1/1961, the owners service certificate and the certified car care booklet! it was delivered on the 23/11/1960 from White Plymouth Dealership, WA! so exciting! cant wait for the car to arrive! cheers adriana |
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Member
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Location: cntrl nth island new zealand | good to see more people that love the 61s, i have a 61 suburban here in nz , it came in new as a hearse , i am giving it a tidy up at the moment it is in my workshop all bare metal and in very good cond, should be back on the road in the next 2 months. will be good to see more pics of yours when it gets to oz adriana, how do you post pics on here?cheers vaughan |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | hey ya vaughan! u go to the reply button & then click add file/ pics after posting. had any luck with headlight rings yet? 13 days 2 go and my sub is set 2 arrive! cheers adriana
ps. did u see the pic of your sub further up the thread? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Mr Fins - 2008-06-19 2:12 AM
it was delivered on the 23/11/1960 from White Plymouth Dealership, WA!
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Where is Washington ? |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | washington is in the USA. lol.... nah seattle washington, thats where it has been its whole life. thats what the owners certificate stated. cheers adriana |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Mr Fins - 2008-06-25 6:22 PM
washington is in the USA. lol.... nah seattle washington, thats where it has been its whole life. thats what the owners certificate stated. cheers adriana
Yeah, ... I got THAT ! ( I am in Washington State, also) 
Seattle narrows it down. Thanks.
B. |
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Location: cntrl nth island new zealand | no head light surrounds yet adriana, i am trying to find out more about mine but a abit hard as the funeral home that bought it new has changed owners since 61 , but i did get some pics of it when new out side the place that they sent me, i will get them on here soon, mine has a 225 slant 6 and push button auto, factory electric tail gate glass and the cool glitter steering wheel. i would love to get any spares i could for it if any come up. it is all bare steel at the moment and only 2 panels have been damaged before so it is in super good cond for age, i am only painting the out side as all inside is still original paint and good enough cond for me, car is black with black/silver interior, was built in onterio canada in rhd to come out here new, body number is 145.
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | vaughan! im jelous, you have an astro wheel!! my steering wheel doesnt even have a horn ring! and an electric tail gate! mine has a heater, radio and padded dash! lol, you have much cooler options! doctor desoto, sorry for being a smart arse, i couldnt resist, do you know anything about the white plymouth dealership then? would be interested in any info. maybe you even remember my wagon driving around? the guy i bought it off was from McKenna washington. cheers adriana |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Mr Fins - 2008-06-26 5:39 AM
vaughan! im jelous, you have an astro wheel!! my steering wheel doesnt even have a horn ring! and an electric tail gate! mine has a heater, radio and padded dash! lol, you have much cooler options! doctor desoto, sorry for being a smart arse, i couldnt resist, do you know anything about the white plymouth dealership then? would be interested in any info. maybe you even remember my wagon driving around? the guy i bought it off was from McKenna washington. cheers adriana
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There has to be someone on this list in Seattle that is more up on old dealerships. I lived there for 30 years and have been away for over ten now, so my memory is getting fuzzy. I do know McKenna .... little "T" in the highway between Yelm and Roy. I once fitted the old soldier's home there with a fire system (1983?). I was driving my white 61 NY'er 2HT then. I remember an oldtimer there being very fascinated with the car. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Seriously, 10-15 years ago, who would have thought that 1961 PLY wagons would be all the rage, now???? |
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Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Adelaide Australia | well maybe if they had been even slightly appreciated 10-15 years ago, they wouldnt have all been scrapped and youd actually be able to find one now.  adriana
DOES ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE WHITE PLYMOUTH DEALERSHIP IN SEATTLE WASHINGTON? IS IT STILL AROUND? PICS/ INFO WOULD BE APPRECIATED |
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Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Adelaide Australia | hey all! i recieved my '61 decoder yesterday, so if anyone needs/wants any decoding for their '61 plymouths, im dying to try it out! cheers adriana |
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Location: cntrl nth island new zealand | what is a decoder and what do you need to try it out,
vaughan |
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Veteran
Posts: 188
Location: Adelaide Australia | it decodes the VIN and VNP number, and it tells you things like the production number, model, plant it came from, interior colour, exterior colour, engine etc. very interesting.... vaughan, the VIN number is on a metal plate in the door jam of the front left door and the VNP is in a metal plate in the engine bay somewhere.... if you email the numbers to me ill decode them and let you know what the numbers stand for (let me know which numbers are VIN and which numbers are VNP tho, or ill get confused.... how the progress on your sub goin? cheers adriana |
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Location: cntrl nth island new zealand | sounds good i will get the numbers on friday and email them to you .thanks
vaughan |
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Location: Adelaide Australia | cool! i look forward to it vaughan  adriana |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Mr Fins - 2008-06-19 2:12 AM
it was delivered on the 23/11/1960 from White Plymouth Dealership, WA! so exciting! cant wait for the car to arrive! cheers adriana
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Here I thought I had really hit the jackpot, but if WHITE was the name of your dealership, then I guess I am off the mark. Anyway, ... thought you might think this was a fun find.
I was asking around about your dealership and this sign came out of the woodwork last weekend.
WAY, .... WHITE, ..... close, but no cigar !
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | no, no cigar, but cool anyhow.... did you find any info on the illusive White Plymouth Dealership? my sub is somewhere in the country but still havent got my eyes or hands on it! cheers adriana |
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Veteran
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Location: Maryland |
Hello Adriana! Its been a while since I have checked back on the site. Congrats on getting your car soon. I'll have to send you the info to my car so you can decode it for me! Post pics when you get the car! |
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Location: cntrl nth island new zealand | hi all ,adriana your new baby must just about be there cant wait to see some more pics , keep forgeting my numbers will try to remember tomorrow,
vaughan |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | hello all! still dont have my sub! bloody catastrophy to say the least.... i was meant to get it 2 weeks ago.... but i am now informed that the ship is arriving tomorrow.... but funny how i was told the container had been redlined in melbourne a week ago!!!!! i am infuriated about the whole thing!! when my sub finally gets here ill be sure to post pics! anyway.... now that i have vented my frustrations, vaughan hows your sub resto goin? find out anymore history on the car? rob, how you been? hows your sub goin? im getting better with my decoding now too, so im more than happy to decode em if you guys want me to. cheers adriana |
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Location: cntrl nth island new zealand | hi adriana , gutted to hear about your sub being late.finally got my numbers.on the tag on the left pillar is 25/19121142 ,on the tag in the engine bay model is R P 1 L 4 5, body # 145 , paint AA, trim RLB , be interresting to see what it says about the car, thanks in advance, will post some more pics soon, cheers vaughan |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | hello vaughan, ive always wondered if it's work for an export or canadian car....well it kinda works....
VIN
2= plymouth 6cyl
5= savoy station wagon
1= 1961
9= assembly plant [there is no 9, because it only lists US plants]
121142= 21142 production number
the VIN worked ok, but the VNP doesnt...
there should be two sets of four numbers, the first indicating the shipping order number and the second indicating the production sequence.... then the 145 is supposed to equal the body style [but there is no 145 on the sheet] the AA is supposed to equal the body colour [but AA= maize top and maize lower] and the RLB [the first two letters should be numbers]
so im not sure what has gone wrong, my friend randy mistook some of the letters for numbers so maybe check it again, as his were GG's not 66's.... sorry this didnt turn out.... always wondered if it would work for export cars, i guess my questions been answered..... cheers adriana |
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Mr Fins - 2008-07-16 7:35 PM
hello vaughan, ive always wondered if it's work for an export or canadian car....well it kinda works....
VIN
2= plymouth 6cyl
5= savoy station wagon
1= 1961
9= assembly plant [there is no 9, because it only lists US plants]
121142= 21142 production number
the VIN worked ok, but the VNP doesnt...
there should be two sets of four numbers, the first indicating the shipping order number and the second indicating the production sequence.... then the 145 is supposed to equal the body style [but there is no 145 on the sheet] the AA is supposed to equal the body colour [but AA= maize top and maize lower] and the RLB [the first two letters should be numbers] so im not sure what has gone wrong, my friend randy mistook some of the letters for numbers so maybe check it again, as his were GG's not 66's.... sorry this didnt turn out.... always wondered if it would work for export cars, i guess my questions been answered..... cheers adriana
Vaughan has a Canadian Plymouth, so the tag under the hood is different.
The "9" in the VIN for Windsor, ON.
You are right about 121142 - it was the 21,142nd 1961 car built at Windsor. For 1961, Chrysler of Canada built Valiants, Plymouths, Dodge Darts and Chrysler Windsor/Saratoga models. All convertibles were imported as were Chrysler New Yorker/300-G and Imperials. No 1961 Dodge Lancer, Dodge Polara or DeSoto models in Canada.
Canadian Plymouth and Dart models used the U.S. Plymouth instrument panel along with U.S. Dart upholstery and door panels.
For the Canadian tag, which was used from at least 1935 through 1965 -
Model No. : R P 1 L 45
R - 1961
P - Plymouth
1 - 6
L - Savoy / Suburban
4 - 4-door
5 - 2-seat wagon
Body No. : 145
145th 1961 Plymouth 6 Suburban 4-door, 2-seat wagon built
Paint : AA
A - Upper colour - Black
A - Lower colour - Black
Canadian colours were different from the U.S. prior to 1966, although 1965 was almost the same. In 1961 Chrysler of Canada had a "Sunlight Yellow", code R, which was lighter and brighter than Plymouth's "Maize", code A.
Trim : RLB
R - 1961
L - low series (Plymouth Savoy & Dodge Dart Seneca)
B - Black & silver
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | fabulous! thanks Chrycoman.... very interesting.... where did you get the canadian/ export decoder from? im intrigued by the difference between the US-Canadian and Export '61 plymmies.... i have a few of the canadian sales pieces... they had some cool colours available! cheers adriana
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Mr Fins - 2008-07-20 4:13 AM
fabulous! thanks Chrycoman.... very interesting.... where did you get the canadian/ export decoder from? im intrigued by the difference between the US-Canadian and Export '61 plymmies.... i have a few of the canadian sales pieces... they had some cool colours available! cheers adriana
I have Chrysler of Canada parts books from 1936 through 1966, except for 1938 and 1946-48. Plus the Canadian Plymouth master list to the beginning of the 1933 model year and the 1934 Chrysler Airflow (6 & 8).
Plus I have various CIL and DuPont Canada colour lists from 1937 through to now, except for 1942 and 1946. I have the actual colour chips sheets for 1940-41, 1949-50 and 1954 to date, plus 1946 trucks.
As well I have brochures, etc. from the early 1950's to date, plus 1940 Plymouth and 1941 Dodge Kingsway. And Canadian ads going back into the 1920's.
And I have a collection of data books (Canadian Information Services, Sanford-Evans Motor Vehicle, and Branhams) going back to 1928 and a photocopy of an old Branhams that starts at 1921. |
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Veteran
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Location: Adelaide Australia | how cool, im jelous.... do you have the '61 plymouth canadian colour chips? ive been looking for a set everywhere but havent been able to find a set. the canadian stuff is hard to find, but you seem to be having no trouble at all if you have pics of the canadian '61 brochures id love to see em!! adriana |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Bill, tell me, again, why neither Chrysler (Detroit) nor Chrysler CAN (---where were/are they located; Windsor?) kept
any IBM-type production records on the CAN production ? |
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2008-07-21 12:40 PM
Bill, tell me, again, why neither Chrysler (Detroit) nor Chrysler CAN (---where were/are they located; Windsor?) kept any IBM-type production records on the CAN production ?
I suspect they were kept at the main Chryco Parts warehouse in Chatham, Ontario, and not the factory in Windsor. They were kept to assist the dealers and distributors in ordering the correct body parts, interior trim, carbs, etc. By quoting the serial number on the car, the people at Chryco Parts could look up the equipment installed on the car. The Chatham warehouse even supplied painted body parts for a dealer if they did not have access to a spray booth.
Chrysler also had a warehouse in Regina to supply western Canada into the 1950`s and I suspect they would have had copies of the records as well. (Regina had no paint facilities, though.) The Regina warehouse was augmented by warehouses in Red Deer and Vancouver in the mid-1950`s as Chrysler dumped the distributor system of selling their vehicles. The Regina warehouse was replaced by one in Winnipeg. Both the Red Deer and Vancouver facilities were replaced by new, larger units about ten years ago. Interestingly, the old Vancouver site was to have been developed by Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart also bought the old AMC plant in Brampton from Chrysler around 1994-95.
Apparently the build records were destroyed after about seven years as by that time such things as interior upholstery and most exterior body parts were no longer available. No one viewed them as having any historical context, just information for supplying the customer with the correct parts. The head office in Detroit never got a copy of these records as they were of no use to them.
Studebaker of Canada also kept their records for about six or seven years. When the Hamilton plant shut down in March, 1966, they sent all their build records to the Studebaker Museum in South Bend, where they still reside. Studebaker of Canada`s build records only cover 1960 through to the end in 1966. The Hamilton plant opened in 1948, and Studebaker had a plant in Windsor from 1911 until 1942, although production ceased in 1936.
GM of Canada has information on post war vehicles, but nothing on prewar. Ford of Canada is much the same. All of Hudson of Canada`s records were destroyed when they moved to the Toronto Nash plant in late 1954. Hudson engineers apparently arrived at the Toronto plant with seven file cabinets filled with engineering documentation on Canadian-built Hudsons. The plant manager at Toronto declared all the information was useless, given that Hudson was forced to merge with Nash to survive. And all those documents were destroyed.
Seems Canadian auto managers did not have much sense of history. Ford of Canada has decent archives, thanks to the late Herman Smith who scrounged around to collect as much historical documentation as he could back in the 1960`s.
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Mr Fins - 2008-07-20 3:48 PM
how cool, im jelous.... do you have the '61 plymouth canadian colour chips? ive been looking for a set everywhere but havent been able to find a set. the canadian stuff is hard to find, but you seem to be having no trouble at all if you have pics of the canadian '61 brochures id love to see em!! adriana
I have been searching for this stuff for about ten years now. As I live in Canada, I suspect it is a little easier for me to find the info than you in Australia!
I am attaching the 1961 CIL sheet along with the supplementary for the spring colours.
I have three items for the 1961 Plymouth -
- brochure (booklet style) with illustrations of all the models.
- folder with the same illustrations plus the Canadian Valiant
- the Ross Roy data book for Canadian Valiant, Plymouth and Chrysler. It also has info on the imported Imperial.
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1961 Plymouth Suburban Wagons
