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1958 DeSoto Data Tag Jump to page : 1 2 3 4 5 Now viewing page 3 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Fender/VIN Tag and Broadcast Sheet Decoding | Message format |
Chrycoman |
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Expert Posts: 1819 Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2009-03-25 12:32 PM The above car came out of Alberta, Canada. How does a Canadian car come marked to distinguish it from U.S. built cars ? The Canadian plant built only Firedome models in 1958-59 and imported Fireflite and Adventurer models, as well as Firedome convertibles. So you have an American 1958 DeSoto Fireflite, which may have been imported by Chrysler of Canada for sale in Canada. Only the build record in Detroit would tell where it was shipped after leaving Jefferson Avenue. Other than that, the imported Fireflite models were identical to those sold in the U.S. No stampings were placed anywhere on the car to show it was destined for Canada. Remember, 1958 was in the era before safety and pollution standards. For the 1957 model year Chrysler of Canada built no DeSoto models and imported all Firedome and Fireflite models - Firesweeps were never sold in Canada. For 1960 only Adventurers rolled out of Windsor and that was the last of the DeSoto marque in Canada. | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Doctor DeSoto - 2009-03-25 1:30 PM 1958 Fireflite 2HT, red body with white sweep and roof. Power brake and steering, P-seat, P-windows, five button and dual ants, dual mirrors, solex throughout. Interior red vinyl with grey patterned cloth inserts on seats and door panels. Data code reads: 646 So there goes my theory about the 600 series belonging to the Firedomes! Nuts! That one sounded good to me. I guess it could be a misprint on the data tag, Neil says it happens - but that seems like grasping at straws. However, these data code books seem to imply that 600's do belong to Firedomes and 700s belong to Fireflites....things that make you go "hmm" Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-03-26 12:33 AM | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | If you read back in this thread, Nick's Adventurer was reported to have a code "647". | ||
Devioussquirrel |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 354 Location: Louisiana | Thanks Mike. I've been carrying around a SMS sample swatch for a few years now and it looks a lot more like Fireflite fabric. As the linked album shows, however, SMS can match the Firedome material reasonably well: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?album... The zoomed photo you provided will help a lot! | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Doctor DeSoto - 2009-03-26 1:10 AM If you read back in this thread, Nick's Adventurer was reported to have a code "647". True indeed! Well, I was willing to float the misprint idea for one tag, but not two! Maybe the book answers this - I'll ask Bob Hamilton, he knows all. | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Justin, your interior looks absolutely awesome! SMS gets a lot of guff for poor customer service, but the end product is a total knock-out. Did they offer a swatch of the so-called Firedome material? As we can see from Brent's posts - maybe the break down of Fireflite material and Firedome material is not particularly clear cut... | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Wait! I am confusing myself (not hard to do) the 700 series is all vinyl, the 600 series is fabric. 40s are for Fireflites (maybe Adventurers too), and 30 series are for the 'domes. I think this still holds together. | ||
Devioussquirrel |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 354 Location: Louisiana | Lancer Mike - 2009-03-26 10:29 AM Justin, your interior looks absolutely awesome! SMS gets a lot of guff for poor customer service, but the end product is a total knock-out. Did they offer a swatch of the so-called Firedome material? As we can see from Brent's posts - maybe the break down of Fireflite material and Firedome material is not particularly clear cut... Unfortunately, it's not my car. My car is currently in a thousand rusty pieces. The Firedome in the album belongs to a gentleman from Sweden. Still, these images give me hope. Edited by Devioussquirrel 2009-03-26 12:55 PM | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2009-03-27 8:36 AM Wait! I am confusing myself (not hard to do) the 700 series is all vinyl, the 600 series is fabric. 40s are for Fireflites (maybe Adventurers too), and 30 series are for the 'domes. I think this still holds together. ***************************** As I read it : First digit indicates seat material, i.e. all vinyl or cloth inserts, etc. Second digit indicates model of car to determine WHICH fabrics / vinyls. Third digit designates color. The weather has been getting nicer and nicer and I have been out doing site work on the new shop. I am getting so excited to get working on the car again ! | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Yep, that's the way I figured it, before I confused myself...now I'm back on the same page. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | That's why we're here for you, buddy ..... Keep ya on the straight and narrow ! | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Ugh! Neil is grousing that he has to do all the work around here, so now I have to pitch in! Here's a little tidbit of factory literature about the 1958 Spring Specials. The fine print reads as follows: 1) A rich, anodized-aluminum color sweep insert (sweep mouldings included) 2) Eight stainless-steel deck-lid accent stripes 3) Bright, stainless-steel sill mouldings There’s an exciting new look available for De Soto this spring. A brilliant combination of glittering steel and burnished anodized aluminum blends with the clean lines of De Soto Flight-Sweep Styling to produce a car that looks longer, lower and richer from any angle. Now available on any Fireflite, Firedome or Firesweep. The flashing spear of aluminum down the side of the car accentuates De Soto’s low silhouette and seems to add inches to its length. The deck-lid accent stripes add a distinctive note from the rear view. And the sill mouldings complete the picture, highlighting the lower part of the body and complementing the color of your choice. This is an actual sample of the horizontal-ribbed anodized aluminum color-sweep insert. Corrosion-resistant, it stays sparkling with a minimum of care. You will be amazed how the fluted pattern in this aluminum color-sweep adds length and dignity to any new De Soto at a very low extra cost. Order by code #314 Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-05-01 5:12 PM (Spring Trim Insert - Colors and Fabrics Book.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Spring Trim Insert - Colors and Fabrics Book.jpg (78KB - 619 downloads) | ||
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | Mike : LOL! So, whaddaya think, about that 58 Soto over on the Craigsboard; does it appear to have that S.-S. aluminum side-sweep/spear insert on it, too? Edited by d500neil 2009-05-01 5:41 PM | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | I think I remember the one you are talking about, but I couldn't find the thread. It was not on the original thread that sparked this conversation... I have a nasty feeling that De Soto spring trim was much like Dodge spring trim - anything goes! If you see all three trim elements together with a spring color - it probably came from the factory. If they let the dealers mix-n-match trim on the lot's old maids like Dodge did - heaven help us! At least, De Soto appears to have employed an order code for the spring specials, so I suspect that the broadcast sheet or even the data tag could confirm a factory installation? Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-05-01 6:52 PM | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | My car, built 06 January, is spring color "Haze Blue Metallic". It has no deck lid bars or sweep inserts, although it was wrecked badly in 1960, and *could* have had these removed at the time of repair. A red Fireflite coupe in the Carolinas that was in the NDC in the early 90's had both the bars and inserts. Tim ***an built a Sweep convertible and added those items, but I know little else except talking with him and later seeing pictures. The only fully SS'd DeSoto I ever dealt with was a Sweep sedan in that lilac metallic color. I have seen a number of spring color cars without the bars or inserts though. | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Howdy, Doc! Is Tim's Sweep the $170,000 red and white De Soto I saw at Barrett Jackson in January 2008? I think that was decked out in all the finery; Spring Special, glittery carpet, High-Way Hi-Fi, bumper guards, Benrus, on and on and on and on and on... | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | If memory serves, the car Tim added it to was his longtime pride and joy all white car. However, that hardly means squat when all it takes is paint and when we are talking Barrett-Jackson and paint, all bets are off in the big money game. I have not spoken with Tim in years. No clue if he still has that car or what he's doing. | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Let's add Max's tag here (Max's cowl_tag.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Max's cowl_tag.JPG (95KB - 625 downloads) | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | So far, SCH 013 is the earliest yet - I suspect well before November of 1957! You can see the all vinyl 735 (turquoise / blue) interior combination. Very nice indeed! All cars discussed are still at the Wyoming Avenue plant! What was the cutoff there? July, 1958? | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | What do you mean by : ********************* Lancer Mike - 2011-01-19 4:10 PM All cars discussed are still at the Wyoming Avenue plant! What was the cutoff there? July, 1958? **************** What cars ??? | ||
Chrycoman |
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Expert Posts: 1819 Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-01-20 7:21 AM What do you mean by : ********************* Lancer Mike - 2011-01-19 4:10 PM All cars discussed are still at the Wyoming Avenue plant! What was the cutoff there? July, 1958? **************** What cars ??? DeSoto Firedome, Fireflite and Adventurer. Production came to an end at the DeSoto plants (Wyoming Avenue assembly, McGraw Avenue parts and Warren Avenue bodies & engines) in July 1958. Production of the 1959 models began at Chrysler's East Jefferson facility in September. The Wyoming Avenue plant (built 1919 by Saxon Motor Co.) began a twenty year stint as Chrysler's export plant, the McGraw Avenue plant (built 1937 by Chrysler) for glass manufacture (1960) and the Warren Avenue plant (built by Paige Motor Co in the 1920's) for Imperial assembly (1959-1961 model years). | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | I knew the closure of the De Soto plants was in the summer of 1958 (a nail in the coffin), and I wondered if any 1958 De Sotos were manufactured in the Chrysler plant. From Bill's message, it looks like once 1958 production ceased, they moved into the Chrysler plants and began production of the 1959's. July seems like an early stop for production, so I wondered. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | You left out a word like "built", suggesting perhaps a joke that all these cars were still sitting at the Wyoming Avenue plant awaiting pickup. OK, ... I am up to speed now ! | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Now I get it!!! Oh, but wouldn't it be great if there were still a secret stash of brand new 1958 De Sotos hidden in a factory warehouse somewhere in Detroit Hey, a guy can dream! | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Hey Mike, .... ever heard "Guitar Pill" by Henry Phillips ? | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Nope! I'll look it up! | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Well, did you ? | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Yep, checked it out - I almost turned it off when he looked like he was dying on stage - but it got better after he took the pill... | ||
ttotired |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8443 Location: Perth Australia | Just watched it The first bit after the pill is obviously Stairway to heaven, the second bit sounds like Toccata and Fugue by Bach. Not really into classical music, but I like that. Watch this, This guy is amazing, the organ (building) he plays is pretty special as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd_oIFy1mxM Mick | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | "Wouldn't it be great ... ?" | ||
zachs58 |
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Veteran Posts: 234 Location: Dallas,Ga. | Speaking of data plates, is it possible to get a reproduction one? My car is sadly missing it's plate. Or, does anyone have one from a junk car? I don't care about the data on it, I just want to cover the naked spot on the cowl! Yes, that sounds silly, but it is true. -Z | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Zach - there is a sticky thread at the top of the Fender/VIN Tag and Broadcast Sheet Decoding section about how to get a replacement data tag. Basically, only one guy does it - A.G. Backeast. He is not back east but here in Colorado. I think an exact replica of the tag that is supposed to be on your specific car will set you back $400+ If you are just wanting to "fill the void" that is an expensive way to do it. You could probably get one from any junkyard that carries a moderate selection of forwardlook stuff. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I have a shoebox full of matching VIN and data tags - many with matching titles - back home. Any car I scrapped got chopped up small enough to not require turning this stuff in. I figured that someday those tags would be very useful in doing a correct build on a car with no tags or a ground-up build. What kind of car are we talking about ? I might have a nice "match" for you. | ||
zachs58 |
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Veteran Posts: 234 Location: Dallas,Ga. | Hmmmm. I think I could fake it with a strip of aluminum, and some reverse (negative?) number and letter punches. It's just to fill a blank spot anyway. --Z | ||
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | Zach, please take advantage of Brent's kind offer! AG Backeast DOES re-pop P/T plates, but, they have to be told or shown precisely how a particular P/T plate should be numbered/stamped/arranged; they do not, and can-not, create P/T plates without being carefully informed about how the end result should appear. You'd just have to remember that the P/T plate would not actually pertain to your car, however!!! But, maybe Brent has a P/T plate that will be for your car-model, at least! Edited by d500neil 2011-02-03 7:07 PM | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Tell me what that 58 DeSoto is ..... Firedome 2HT ? ..... Firesweep 4HT ? I might have a match (?) | ||
58DeSoDodge59 |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1112 Location: Wild Wonderful | Doctor Desoto That sounds like something that I need. I have a 1958 Desoto Firedome 2dr hardtop that has no Data plate and no Title. Can you help me? | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I have at least one 58 Firedome 2HT set. The car was a stunning black car with red sweep originally. I should have the VIN, data tag, and title on that one. But you are going to have to hold your breath a while longer. I am in Afghanistan and that stuff is back in the states ! | ||
58DeSoDodge59 |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1112 Location: Wild Wonderful | K . Im holdin my breath and turning blue. When do you think you will be leaving hell and returning to the states? Im not in a hurry, just wondering, I can hold my breath for a while. Im kinda new here, are you in the service looking for Bin ? I noticed my car was originally Spanish Gold and White. Do you think you have anything with those colors? I know beggers can't be choosers. I guess if Im starting over, it does not have to be a Firedome, it could be a Fireflite or Adventurer. I can change nameplates. That Black and Red does sound like it would be a sharp looking car. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I am anywhere from 10 to 30 months out, depending on if I sign up for another hitch. But if you need them, we can work something out when I get home. To make a Fireflite or Adventurer out of it, you'd need the high backglass roof. | ||
58DeSoDodge59 |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1112 Location: Wild Wonderful | I did not know about the back glass. I have another project I need to finish up, so, yes, keep me posted when you get back. Thanks | ||
58DeSoDodge59 |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1112 Location: Wild Wonderful | Where does this tag say that it is a Spring Special? (2014merrychristmas 042.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 2014merrychristmas 042.jpg (238KB - 593 downloads) | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Kurt - you might think the SS code would be for a spring special, however - it is actually for stone shields. Unless the 9 under ST indicates a spring special, the code may only be on the punch card or broadcast sheet. The TR 3 code appears to be for the three speed Torqueflite on our Firedomes. The Fireflites and Adventurers we have seen on this post do not have either codes for TR or SS, which may have been standard on those models and thus unnecessary on the data plate. So far, only my car and Tom White's Adventurer show a ST code - both indicate a 1. Yours is the only one with a 9 - all others appear to be blank. Interestingly, White's car and my car are both coded as solid colors, but I am almost certain mine had a white sweep when the original owner bought it. Also, a monotone Adventurer would be a strange sight too. I am beginning to think the 1 code had something to do with the sweep, but I am not sure. Yours is coded dove grey and black with the 9 code - that possibly could indicate the spring special sweep. Edited by Lancer Mike 2014-12-24 9:23 AM | ||
The Adventurer |
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed Posts: 1028 Location: Melbourne, Australia | I agree with Mike , although i am no Authority on these cars but having a black top and all grey lower including the sweep seems odd as it would look funny , so the grey sweep and body colour would indicate on pure logic that the spring special trim would have covered it . | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I think we might look to the Plymouth Belvedere with the "sportone" inserts for a more common example of how the corporation would handle this insert business. I am coming up blank on any memory of finding accent color under the sportone inserts .... it was always just straight body color. Had the inserts not been installed, the car would be monotone except for the roof (if ordered with an accent color. As the bodies were painted the main color first, and THEN shot with the sweep in an accent color (if so ordered), it doesn't make much sense to send a body back through the accent line if it was getting inserts covering that area. This was given a lot of consideration, as anyone with original fender sweep COLOR inserts still in place will know. | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Unfortunately, the coding of the Plymouth would not give us a clue about this. My canyon gold Plymouth didn't even have a cowl tag! An authentic "Christine" Plymouth would presumably have a XO3 PNT code, where the 3 signifies the Sportone inserts. It does seem crazy for the factory to paint a "Christine" XOX and then cover the Arctic White accent with Sportone! Edited by Lancer Mike 2014-12-27 11:38 AM | ||
christine-lover |
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Expert Posts: 2996 Location: Sept. 1958 | 58 Plymouth with inserts had body color under where insert would be. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2014-12-28 8:30 AM It does seem crazy for the factory to paint a "Christine" XOX and then cover the Arctic White accent with Sportone! ======================================================= It involved a rather substantial extra step in the body process that the factory charged for. I am quite sure the bean counters would have been all over this to ensure it wasn't done. As Matt verifies, I cannot recall a single Belvedere I ever took the inserts off of that had accent color paint underneath. They were all single color bodies with (perhaps) an accent color roof. While I have come to accept the "never say never" approach to how things got done, it seems unlikely that DeSoto (and Dodge (building Firesweeps) did it any different than Plymouth, as it involved cost savings for the corporation. | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | I agree. | ||
58DeSoDodge59 |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1112 Location: Wild Wonderful | Okay guys, here's some more information. I noticed that the IBM card says "2" under the "ST", but the ID tag on the car it says "9". Was this a last minute change? (58desotoinfo.jpg) (58desotoibmcard.jpg) (58ssdesoto.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 58desotoinfo.jpg (117KB - 572 downloads) 58desotoibmcard.jpg (217KB - 520 downloads) 58ssdesoto.jpg (214KB - 544 downloads) | ||
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