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1958 DeSoto Data Tag
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-27 12:55 AM (#131713 - in reply to #131676)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown
d500neil - 2008-05-27 2:08 PM

But, but, but..BILL started it ....!


**************************

I don't care who started it, Private Pyle.

Now, both of you, drop and give me 50.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-28 11:49 AM (#131910 - in reply to #131713)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City
Got some very interesting information from Nick Nichols' '58 Adventurer:

My data plate is quite rusty as you can see from the photo. The photo here is also blurry. I did manage to get some numbers off of it. They are as follows:


Under schedule: 039
Sequence: 253
Body: 492
Pnt: VXV
Trm: 647
PS: ?
AH: 5
PW: 4?
BG: 7?
C: ?


Not sure what all these codes mean but that is what is on there as best as I can make out. Hope it helps you. The Adventurer is only missing the original spinner hubcaps. I have some '58 Chrysler hubcaps on there now. take care, Nick.






(Nicks data plate 1.JPG)



(Nicks hardtop driver side 1.JPG)



(Nicks hardtop interior 1.JPG)



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Attachments Nicks data plate 1.JPG (28KB - 586 downloads)
Attachments Nicks hardtop driver side 1.JPG (46KB - 556 downloads)
Attachments Nicks hardtop interior 1.JPG (52KB - 537 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-28 8:28 PM (#131969 - in reply to #131910)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown
Lancer Mike - 2008-05-29 8:49 AM

Got some very interesting information from Nick Nichols' '58 Adventurer:

My data plate is quite rusty as you can see from the photo. The photo here is also blurry. I did manage to get some numbers off of it. They are as follows:


Under schedule: 039 Have we figured this out yet ? 39th day of production ?
Sequence: 253 Ditto above ... 253rd car built that day ?
Body: 492 4=DeSoto 9=Adventurer 2=2HT
Pnt: VXV Gold roof, white body, gold sweep
Trm: 647 Code for Adv, coupe interior
PS: ? Power seat. Is there a number stamped here ?
AH: 5 Standard heater
PW: 4? Power windows Seems this should not be marked on Adv unless windows are manual, as PW was standard equip.
BG: 7? Bumper guards
C: ? A lot of these show "2", ... do we know what that means ?


Not sure what all these codes mean but that is what is on there as best as I can make out. Hope it helps you. The Adventurer is only missing the original spinner hubcaps. I have some '58 Chrysler hubcaps on there now. take care, Nick.




*******************************

See inserted notes above. If I am incorrect on any, please say so !

The photo shows what looks like a front bumper with no bumper guards. The data tag says it was built with them.

It is interesting to note the marks for PS and PW. Both were standard fare on Adventurers. Are both these manual and these codes mean "delete" ? If they are there, it is oddly redundant to notate on the data tag. Hmmm .....

I have a set of Adventurer spinners saved for possible use on the Fireflite. They are a really good looking wheelcover. I just can't get too excited over the standard covers ... a little "conservative". Now just to figure out how to get them to fit 15" wheels !
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-05-28 11:09 PM (#131986 - in reply to #131969)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City
The bumper guards threw me off too. Here's a question: on Nick's Adventurer and my Firedome, the ignition key bezel looks like it came right off my Dodge - the bezel looks mismatched compared to the other bezels on the instrument cluster. Is that the way it is, or do I have the wrong bezel?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-29 1:11 AM (#131993 - in reply to #131986)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown
Lancer Mike - 2008-05-29 8:09 PM

The bumper guards threw me off too. Here's a question: on Nick's Adventurer and my Firedome, the ignition key bezel looks like it came right off my Dodge - the bezel looks mismatched compared to the other bezels on the instrument cluster. Is that the way it is, or do I have the wrong bezel?


*************************************

Keeping on this de-code theme, .... I am really curious if Nick's car has PB and PW delete, or if they are present as standard equipment, but got a data tag notation anyway. Do you know ?

On the ignition key bezel, .... there is a "more correct" bezel that matches the rest. However, I have seen a lot of 58 DeSotos equipped with that flat unit over the years. Don't know if it is replacement / aftermarket, or just from a different supplier. It certainly doesn't match !

I am really reaching into the foggy depths to try and remember, .... but it seems to me the flat type you have is actually a "nut" that threads onto a male part of the switch that is stuck through the hole in the dash. The other type has a male threaded part on the "bezel" that pokes through the dash and into a female threaded part on the switch.

My car has the more "matching" switch bezel (if you can see it through all the wires hung over the steering wheel).



(DeSotodash.jpg)



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Attachments DeSotodash.jpg (69KB - 635 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-29 7:41 PM (#132063 - in reply to #131993)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Well, your car is undeniably well HUNG, Brent.

Whatsup with the speedo?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-29 9:35 PM (#132083 - in reply to #132063)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown

Back when these cars (and parts) were more plentiful, I grabbed up anything I came onto that was interesting in hopes of "someday". Since I was essentially building a car from scratch, I was hunting any and all options / equipment to hang on it ! I believe this speedo is the one that came with the pile of rust that was my Adventurer. It is a 150 mph job with the letters on the "glass" that read "police certified". I have seen this on other makes of the period, but this is the only DeSoto speedo I have seen like this.
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Gidman
Posted 2008-05-30 12:15 AM (#132097 - in reply to #132083)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

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Is the traffic light reflector the one you posted a close up of earlier with the forwardlook logo on it? Very interesting to see that on an Adventurer. aftermarket? Do you know when Adventurer stopped with the steering wheel clock?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-05-30 12:59 AM (#132104 - in reply to #132097)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Gidman - 2008-05-30 9:15 PM

Is the traffic light reflector the one you posted a close up of earlier with the forwardlook logo on it? Very interesting to see that on an Adventurer. aftermarket? Do you know when Adventurer stopped with the steering wheel clock?


****************************

The above photo is of my Fireflite as it sits now. Yes, the traffic light viewer is the same one with the Forward Look emblem on it. While it is not marked besides the FL emblem, it looks just like many that are found with GM's "Guide" marking. The purpose of such viewers was to enable drivers to see traffic lights when they were hung on the close side of the intersection, especially for cars with sunvisors. A car in the "pole position" would be directly under the light and the driver would have to lay their head on the dash to see it. Such lights are non-existant anymore, but in the day ....

I know the viewer is probably a very unlikely thing to find on a car like mine, but as 50's gadgets go, they are just about the coolest ! With the top up, it actually serves its function very well.

The Benrus sterring wheel watch is a stock option for 57-58. In the 1980's a clock company had hundreds of them for sale for dirt cheap, still in the aluminum case. The trick was finding the mounting bezel. In 59, the steering wheel took on a whole different look and the watch was dropped.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-03 12:39 AM (#132438 - in reply to #132104)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City
Wow! All the goodies - police certified speedo, traffic light viewer, and self-winding benrus clock! Very nice. I thought I had seen pictures in the forum recently of another police certified speedometer - on a rough-looking two door hardtop. I could swear the non-matching bezel is the exact same as my '58 Dodge ignition bezel.

I will send another e-mail to Nick tomorrow - he should be able to say right away whether his car has power windows and a power seat. I sent an e-mail to Alan Faltus, but there was no reply.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-06-03 10:45 AM (#132467 - in reply to #132438)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Lancer Mike - 2008-06-03 9:39 PM

Wow! All the goodies - police certified speedo, traffic light viewer, and self-winding benrus clock! Very nice. I thought I had seen pictures in the forum recently of another police certified speedometer - on a rough-looking two door hardtop. I could swear the non-matching bezel is the exact same as my '58 Dodge ignition bezel.

I will send another e-mail to Nick tomorrow - he should be able to say right away whether his car has power windows and a power seat. I sent an e-mail to Alan Faltus, but there was no reply.


*********************************

As I said before, I cannot say where that non-matching bezel comes from, but a lot of these cars have that type, and it is not just the bezel that is different ... the whole switch threading is reversed from male-female to female-male .... you have to change the whole switch to get the other bezel. Aftermarket ? Alternate supplier ????

Let me know if you get a hold of Mr. Faltus. He lives about 2-3 hours west of me, but I get through there on occasion, iffens mebbe we need to "check it out"
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d500neil
Posted 2008-06-03 5:54 PM (#132526 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Mike, what you recall seeing is John Fowlie's 59 Dodge CHP patrol car, with its Police Certified speedometer.
(We don't need ANY.... [as they actually said, in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre"!]..... stinking Badges---I mean: Dodges!!!)






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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-06-04 2:16 AM (#132628 - in reply to #132438)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Lancer Mike - 2008-06-03 9:39 PM

Wow! All the goodies - police certified speedo, traffic light viewer, and self-winding benrus clock! Very nice. QUOTE]

**********************************

Vehr nahce ! High-five !

I saved stuff for years to make my Adventurer complete (it was a stripped wrecking yard hulk). When I sold that car to get the Fireflite, I kept most of the goodies and put them on the new car. From the parts pile I added PW, PS, Solex, the above mentioned items and probably a thing or two I can't remember now.

I just found some pix of a 57 Dome I passed on in Pennsylvania (it was super rusty) that was the antithesis of my convertible. It had the ragtop, but beyond that was the most absolute stripper DeSoto built. Monotone paint, no sweep, rubber floor mats, 3-speed manual, dog dishies, and block off plates everywhere on the dash. It would have been a real job to save, but what a cool car !!!! Wish I had bought it now !
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-04 5:35 PM (#132668 - in reply to #132628)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City
Yesterday I received my IBM card from Chrysler along with their decoding letter and production numbers. There weren't any big surprises - it was fun to see the dealership that sold the car. I think we could learn more from the dealer order book that was on eBay recently. I asked the seller if he could photograph each page for me (I said I would pay him) - but no luck.

Alan Faltus send a reply. He still owns his Firedome convertible and he said he would send some photos!

No reply from Nick Nichols yet.



Edited by Lancer Mike 2008-06-04 5:47 PM




(IBM card reduced.JPG)



(Production Figures reduced.JPG)



(Decode from Chrysler reduced.JPG)



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Attachments IBM card reduced.JPG (53KB - 617 downloads)
Attachments Production Figures reduced.JPG (44KB - 576 downloads)
Attachments Decode from Chrysler reduced.JPG (77KB - 782 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-06-04 9:04 PM (#132692 - in reply to #132668)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown
That is great stuff, Mike.

It looks like I need to send ANOTHER forty-five bucks to CHS and get that accompanying sheet with the goods spelled out. Back when I did mine, all they sent you was a very crappy Xerox of the computer card. Nothing else. You were on your own to figure it all out.

Did you notice how much time elapsed from the build date to the ship date ? Three months ! My car was built and shipped the same day. Wonder what was going on ? As I recall, Ma Mopar had more than one major labor dispute during the 58 model year. Related ?
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Chrycoman
Posted 2008-06-04 10:57 PM (#132723 - in reply to #132692)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

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Location: Vancouver, BC
Doctor DeSoto - 2008-06-04 6:04 PM

That is great stuff, Mike.

It looks like I need to send ANOTHER forty-five bucks to CHS and get that accompanying sheet with the goods spelled out. Back when I did mine, all they sent you was a very crappy Xerox of the computer card. Nothing else. You were on your own to figure it all out.

Did you notice how much time elapsed from the build date to the ship date ? Three months ! My car was built and shipped the same day. Wonder what was going on ? As I recall, Ma Mopar had more than one major labor dispute during the 58 model year. Related ?



A car shipped within days of assembly meant the car was ordered by the dealer, either to have on hand to show prospective customers, or for an order placed by a customer. A car that was built and sat around on a Chrysler factory lot usually meant it was built to have on hand in case dealers were in need of a car ASAP. In this way Chrysler could also keep the assembly line running at steady pace.

No labour problems, as such, in 1958 for Chrysler. The 1959 model year would be another story, with the UAW stopping production with small strikes during the year and a big PPG strike resulting in the loss of production due to a lack of windshields. That strike would result in Chrysler converting the former DeSoto stamping plant on McGraw Avenue to glass production.

The big problem in 1958 was plunging sales. For the 1957 model year, DeSoto built 117,514 cars. That dropped to 49,445 for 1958 - a loss of 57.9%. Thus DeSoto, actually all North American manufacturers save AMC, cut back on production not due to labour strife, but lack of people willing to plunk their hard earned cash on a new car. Remember, 1958 was a recession year. At the end of the 1958 model year Chrysler shifted production of the DeSoto from Wyoming Avenue to the Chrysler plant on Jefferson Avenue. That move plus the new coporate engines resulted in the closure of the DeSoto engine and body plants on Warren Avenue. Most of that plant was converted to Imperial assembly for 1959-61. The Wyoming plant would be used for CKD export production after 1960. The third plant, on McGraw Avenue, is described above.

The "export" cars for 1958 are actually Canadian-built 1958 DeSoto Firedome models, complete with 354 poly V8 engines and Torqueflite transmissions. No DeSotos were built in Canada for 1957 to free up production space for the new 1957 models. 1956 was a banner year for Chrysler in Canada and they were expecting big things for the completely new 1957 models. Instead Chrysler of Canada imported Firedome and Fireflite models from Detroit - they imported Fireflite models in 1958. Sadly, the much anticipated sales swell for 1957 did not occur.

Total 1956 production came to 999,516 in the U.S. and 105,567 in Canada.
Total 1957 production came to 1,215,710 in the U.S. and 77,708 in Canada.
Total 1958 production came to 667,590 in the U.S. and 42,555 in Canada.

The Canadian results support the theory that the poor quality of the 1957 models was due to the rush to get the cars into production, and not poor assembly due to the rush to get them built. Canadian 1957 models were just as poorly put together as the American originals. A drop of 26.4% resulted in slower assembly lines and more time to get the parts together.

The 1958 DeSoto results were so bad, followed by a small rebound for 1959, DeSoto Division was amalgamated with Plymouth Division in the U.S. to form the Plymouth-DeSoto Division. In Canada the increase was even smaller and the Dodge-DeSoto and Plymouth-Chrysler-Fargo divisions were disbanded altogether, although they existed on paper through to the end of the 1960 model year.

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-05 12:34 AM (#132749 - in reply to #132723)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City
Thanks, Bill -

Your posts are always well worth the read! My build sheet information, including the production figures for 1957 and 1958 are evidence of how big a bite that recession took. As you show with all of the drastic actions Chrysler took following that year, 1958 eventually caused the doom of DeSoto. It is funny how with the build sheet of one car, you can get a glimpse of the whole big picture.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-06-05 6:52 PM (#132862 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
....82 1958 Adventurer convertibles produced; 300 in 1957 .

Mike, you see how the Dealer Code was hand-written onto the card, when it finally got shipped-out?





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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-05 7:00 PM (#132864 - in reply to #132862)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
d500neil - 2008-06-05 4:52 PM

Mike, you see how the Dealer Code was hand-written onto the card, when it finally got shipped-out?



Yep. I am glad that the copy is legible. It sounds like Doc's was not. All-in-all though, I wish I could tell a bit more about my car for my $45. The information they gave is great, but not complete. I really wish the guy who owned the '58 Dealer Showroom Guide would have taken pictures of every page for me. I bet that would have filled in a lot of the blanks.

One thing that puzzles me now is the TRM code - I though it might be for the interior color codes, but Gidman and I have the same code. But I would think his interior would be black and white, where mine is red and gray. I think that book may provide the answer, but $1,200 was too much to scratch that itch.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-06-05 7:16 PM (#132865 - in reply to #127473)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Mike : stupid-question #1: are you certain that both cars have the same TRM codes?
Ditto: #2: are you certain that both cars have the correct OEM-type interiors in them (with the same TRM-coding)?

imho : red & "gray" doesn't sound like an OEM combination; one of the cars has an incorrect interior, it would appear, unless there may
have been a factory screw-up, somewhere (like THAT would ever happen!!)....LOL




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Gidman
Posted 2008-06-05 11:52 PM (#132889 - in reply to #132864)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 452
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Location: Southern California
My dad had the interior redone in 1966-67. It is now a red/gray combination, but I am almost certain it is not to original. Funny, I cannot remember what it looked like when new, but I seem to have a foggy notion of fabric with vinyl. Is that possible? I'd like to know what the original colors might have been. Maybe I can dig up some photos from the brothers. We definitely have the same trim code, 736.

Edited by Gidman 2008-06-06 12:00 AM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-06 12:06 AM (#132893 - in reply to #132865)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
d500neil - 2008-06-05 5:16 PM

Mike : stupid-question #1: are you certain that both cars have the same TRM codes?
Ditto: #2: are you certain that both cars have the correct OEM-type interiors in them (with the same TRM-coding)?

imho : red & "gray" doesn't sound like an OEM combination; one of the cars has an incorrect interior, it would appear, unless there may
have been a factory screw-up, somewhere (like THAT would ever happen!!)....LOL



Neil, I know your on-line persona well enough to know that you NEVER ask a stupid question! If you look at page one of this thread, you can see our data tags one-atop the other. Both Gidman and I are coded 736 under TRM, verified. I did look on Petrus' site and, at least in 1957, red and gray vinyl was a trim code for the Firedome convertibles (different TRM code numbers). I haven't seen pictures of Gary's interior, but I would say that it would be very, very unlikely that his car would have a red and gray vinyl interior. My car was restored, and I believe the interior was redone, but the red heat sealed vinyl on the doors and seat backs looks original. I know it is tough to get that heat sealed vinyl and most folks that redid the interiors just went to a tuck-n-roll instead of trying to get the real stuff. My car might be the most likely candidate for the one with a incorrect interior. There is just no way that a screw-up would happen at the Chrysler Corporation!

That is where photographs of the pages of that dealer book would have been really nice. If you look at the eBay photos of the pages, one of them is almost legible and it shows interior color and fabric combinations and shows numbers! Dollars to doughnuts those numbers would help crack the 1958 DeSoto data tag codes.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-06 12:27 AM (#132896 - in reply to #132893)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
Ok, so going all the way back to the SCH discussion, it looks like Doc's 059 equates to 06 Jan., 1958 and my 049 equates to 05 Dec., 1957. So they had nine other schedule production runs (050, 051, 052, 053, 054, 055, 056, 057, and 058) within those 31 days. That probably tells us that the SCH number factors in time off (weekends, holidays, or both). If that is the case, there should not be SCH numbers that even approach 365 or 261, for that matter (year-round production - 52 weekends times two weekend days).

I would guess that they probably started production in early November and stopped around August to retool for the next model year. That would cut out another two and a half months at least. That might be another 55 weekdays or so? Using that (most likely flawed) logic, you might expect the SCH numbers to top out around 205 to 210?

Just you watch, someone will show their '58 Fireflite data tag with a SCH of 542 and all of that blather is out the window.

So far, Gidman's is 018 and Nichols' is 039 - you would expect both of those to be well before 05 Dec. 1957. Hmm - this math isn't working. There are only 30 days in November and there are probably four weekends and Thanksgiving. I don't know if they had Armastice Day off or an extra for the Friday after Thanksgiving (probably not), but that leaves maybe 21 days for production. Do you think they might have started runs in late September? Maybe - I guess you gotta have 'em on the showroom floor in November right?

Edited by Lancer Mike 2008-06-06 12:48 AM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-06 12:51 AM (#132898 - in reply to #132896)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City
Hey, Doc: mine was built on a Thursday, yours was built on a Monday!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-06-06 2:02 AM (#132903 - in reply to #132898)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I have a big fat file of dealer lit and stuff related to 57-58 DeSoto. Not the stuff buyers or prospects got, but stuff for the sales staff. I have spent considerable time looking for it since this discussion came up, but to no avail. The dealer magazine was caller DeSoto Retailer (or something like that) and several issues highlight the unveiling of the 58's and give dates. I think you are WAY off with November. Typically, August was the switchover time and dealer debuts were held in September. I wish I could lay hands on that paperwork to nail down actual dates !

I suspect the SCH code was for the given day of scheduled production. By the time my Coronets were built (1966) they just gave the straight day and month and there is no confusion.

If we count backwards from my SCH code of 059 to your 049 in terms of actual working days (and let's not assume they sheduled ALL work days in between), maybe we can confirm a pattern and count all the way back to the start of production ?

As time allows I will keep looking for my paper stuff. I have a Ross Roy book for 58 in the pile too. I think that detailed what interior options were offered with each model, but I do not recall any of the ordering codes being present.
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Chrycoman
Posted 2008-06-06 3:29 AM (#132916 - in reply to #132903)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Expert

Posts: 1819
1000500100100100
Location: Vancouver, BC
1957 production began the last week of September, 1956 and the cars introduced to the public on October 30, 1956. (Remember, these models were approved for production in mid-1954 - rather late for 1957. Thus the late dates for production.)

1958 model production began early September, 1957, and introduced on November 1, 1957.

1959 production again began in September with introduction on October 10, 1958 for Dodge, October 16, 1958 for Plymouth and October 24, 1948 for DeSoto, Chrysler and Imperial.

It was not until the 1961 model year that Chrysler got back to "normal" - production begins in early August with intros around the 1st of October.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-06-06 10:49 AM (#132937 - in reply to #132916)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown

"1958 model production began early September, 1957, and introduced on November 1, 1957."

I would need an old calender to count backward here ...

If 05 December 1957 was SCH date 049, we could nail down the start of production pretty well, by counting back 49 working days.

Likewise, it appears that only ten working days occurred between 05 December and 06 January, as my car is coded 059, ... OR (as has been suggested) the SCH date was just that (a SCHEDULED date) and not dead-on exact, and perhaps my car was scheduled to be built ten working days after Mike's, but with the holidays and all, ended up being built after the new year rollover ?

I seem to recall that November 1st debut date, now that you mention it.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-06 1:29 PM (#132950 - in reply to #132937)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City

Here is a 1957 calendar

http://home.comcast.net/~s.astorino/Calendars/1957_Calendar.htm

To me, the number of days between my build and yours indicates to me that is was a schedule and not an exact date.

Also, take a look at this picture from the Dealer book on eBay.  It seems to show codes for different interior combinations.

 





(5ba8_1_sbl.jpg)



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Attachments 5ba8_1_sbl.jpg (18KB - 581 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2008-06-06 5:24 PM (#132977 - in reply to #132950)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
YEP; and THERE'S your interior coding! (which, unfortunately, means nada to me; but, there they ARE)!

Seeing/finding info like this is critical to the breaking of the P/T plate/B-Sheet/IBM-card coding.

And, Mike: I was too LAZY to go back and find the interior codes!.....

But I knew that if they were the same code, that one of the cars had to have had its interior be
changed-out.





Edited by d500neil 2008-06-06 5:29 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-06 11:43 PM (#133011 - in reply to #132977)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
I was able to get in contact with a fellow named Bob from Queensland Australia (sounds familiar). He is the one who bought the book. He seems like a friendly enough fella and he might help us out by sharing some of this information!
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-06-06 11:48 PM (#133012 - in reply to #133011)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
Doc, the trouble with counting days backward between our build dates is that they encompass the Christmas and New Year holidays. Who knows how long the plant was shut down for those? Maybe by that time, the board had figured out what was happening with sales and decided to let everyone have a nice long break to cut costs.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2008-06-07 1:30 AM (#133017 - in reply to #133012)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Lancer Mike - 2008-06-07 8:48 PM

Doc, the trouble with counting days backward between our build dates is that they encompass the Christmas and New Year holidays. Who knows how long the plant was shut down for those? Maybe by that time, the board had figured out what was happening with sales and decided to let everyone have a nice long break to cut costs.


******************************

I agree. It won't be a hard science, but it could be a starting point to either confirm or modify as tidbits are gleened. I would also agree that by early December of 57 that lagging sales would have become apparent and production may have been curtailed by management. I would suspect this info would be documented somewhere in Chrysler's history. I wonder how you could confirm what days were production days ?

This has been a fun thread. I am getting more and more excited to work on the DeSoto !
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-05 6:22 PM (#165826 - in reply to #128256)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
This page was shown on a recent eBay auction. Brent, it looks like your data tag shows a TRM code of "741". Although difficult to read, this pages shows the trim codes for 1958 Fireflite convertibles. I think the page lists "641" for the blue cloth and gray vinyl bolster. This is one of the color combinations for Brent's XCX paint scheme.

Also, Bob Hamilton sent me this swatch for TRM code "736" which matches my interior and should match Gary's interior too.

It is interesting that we found an exact match for 736. I wonder if we are not seeing a page that has an exact match for 741?



(Desoto Colors and Fabrics Book 8.jpg)



(1958 DeSoto TRM 736 reduced.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Desoto Colors and Fabrics Book 8.jpg (102KB - 661 downloads)
Attachments 1958 DeSoto TRM 736 reduced.jpg (206KB - 590 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-05 9:39 PM (#165865 - in reply to #165826)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown
I may have to go uncover my seats and see what the master destroyer left behind. They have been covered in a lovely grey corduroy since I got it. Since the interior is the last thing to get done ...... let's just say, I haven't got there yet !

Could 741 mean all vinyl (no cloth?).
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-05 9:50 PM (#165867 - in reply to #165826)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown
How refreshing it is to be talking 58 DeSoto again !

I just checked the photo I took of the data tag and it definitely reads " 741 ".

Mike, is your car all vinyl, or does it have cloth inserts ? That might explain the "7" if yours is all vinyl.

Bill could probably give full details from his master archive. One thing I am sorely lacking on is the big showroom books with all the samples of cloth and vinyl. I do have a Ross Roy book. Let me check that and see what it tells us .... to be continued.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-06 12:21 AM (#165898 - in reply to #165867)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
I do love to talk DeSoto, especially when the Doctor is in! Yes, mine is all vinyl and no cloth - just as shown in the red and gray swatch. It is a bit hard to imagine a fancy Fireflite with all vinyl, but you just never know. I wondered if the 7 might indicate a different bolster color? They must have had more than just gray bolsters...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-06 1:04 AM (#165901 - in reply to #165898)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
GM data tags had a different code for all vinyl. This was not unusual for convertibles to be ordered all vinyl, as the cloth would deteriorate rapidly in the sun. I have not really explored this as regards to FL cars, but I suspect if your is indeed all vinyl, the "7" indicates all vinyl.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-06 10:53 AM (#165938 - in reply to #165901)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
If you are like me, you really like HARD information - something that is difficult to find on these cars. The Ross Roy books are a pretty good source of information, but they lack that coding element that would tie it all together and explain the HARD facts.

Anyway, .... a quick perusal of the interior trim section does indeed confirm that with with all convertibles, you had a choice of cloth inserts or all vinyl.

For Fireflite, the official choices were "Nugget Tweed metallic threaded jacquard fabric" OR "Metallic Vinyl" combined with the standard bolsters, etc. of "plain vinyl"

For Firedome is was "Frontier Homespun" fabric ...

... and for Firesweep it was "Frontier Homespun" OR all "plain vinyl", but the Dome and Sweep shared the "metallic vinyl" as the fancy vinyl option.

I have seen the all "plain vinyl" interior in at least one Sweep and it was truly austere ! Looked like the seats out of the school buses I rode as a kid.

So, now I guess I'll have to go pile everything out of my car and see what the seats are covered with under those lovely seat covers !

BTW - reading this Ross Roy book again makes me wonder how anyone DIDN'T buy one of these DeSotos in 58 !

Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2009-03-06 10:56 AM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-10 9:11 PM (#166448 - in reply to #165938)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
I sent Bob an e-mail and asked him to send me a picture of TRM code 741. We'll see what happens...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-11 12:35 PM (#166504 - in reply to #166448)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: Parts Unknown
The temps dropped to zero last night and we expect a few more days of hard cold. I'll get up to the shop to look at the DeSoto when it warms up a bit to confirm if it has cloth or all vinyl.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-12 8:34 PM (#166781 - in reply to #166504)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Pulled a weird shift today and was free by 1500 hrs. Took a drive over to look at the DeSoto while it was reasonably warm.

Suspicions confirmed ... my "741" code interior is all vinyl (no cloth inserts)

Since I also happen to have a complete interior from a red / white Fireflite coupe on hand with the cloth inserts, I took a gander at the data tag and it reads "646". This car came out Alberta, but I do not know if it was a Canada-built car. I see nothing about it to indicate it is any different than all the Detroit-built Fireflites I have seen.

Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2009-03-12 8:35 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-20 5:15 PM (#167728 - in reply to #166781)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
Bob Hamilton comes through yet again! He sent me these photographs of his fabrics and colors book. You are correct, Doc - the 700 series appears to be vinyl and the 600 series is fabric.




(Code 741.jpg)



(holly red exterior.jpg)



(fabric 600 series interiors Firedome convertible.jpg)



(vinyl 700 series interiors Firedome Convt.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Code 741.jpg (100KB - 463 downloads)
Attachments holly red exterior.jpg (38KB - 484 downloads)
Attachments fabric 600 series interiors Firedome convertible.jpg (210KB - 608 downloads)
Attachments vinyl 700 series interiors Firedome Convt.jpg (174KB - 654 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-21 2:08 AM (#167809 - in reply to #167728)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
Interesting. Going from the week old memory, it seems my colors looked a lot more like 731 than 741. Maybe another look and a photo is in order ?

The weather is finally breaking and I am getting excited to get working on this again. I am in the mood to sell all my non-FL cars and pour myself into the FL's. This economy would prolly prove a wet blanket to that idea.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-21 5:23 PM (#167868 - in reply to #167809)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



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Location: The Mile High City
That second number may indicate the model. All the 73 series are vinyl interiors for the Firedomes. The 63 series are cloth interiors for the Firedomes. The 74 series is the vinyl interior for the Fireflites and I bet the 64 series is the cloth interiors for the Fireflites.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-21 5:25 PM (#167869 - in reply to #167728)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
The final number looks to be consistent for color:

1) blue
2) green
3) tan
5) aqua
6) red
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-22 3:10 AM (#167899 - in reply to #167869)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
I will dig out the data tag for the red Fireflite tomorrow. It had a cloth interior. Let's see of that confirms your theory.
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Devioussquirrel
Posted 2009-03-24 10:27 AM (#168196 - in reply to #167899)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 354
1001001002525
Location: Louisiana
Is it safe to assume that a 631 trim code for a Firedome Convertible will use the same fabric as the 2-dr Sportsman? The fabric in my Sportsman is so denuded that it barely looks like the material pictured above.

Thanks!
Justin
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2009-03-24 10:53 AM (#168200 - in reply to #168196)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



50002000200010010010010025
Location: The Mile High City
Hi, Justin:

Yes. I should have included the title from that page in Bob's book. It confirms that the fabric is the same for both Sportsman models and the convertible. Here I moved the title right above the code for 631.



(Code 631.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Code 631.jpg (77KB - 486 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-25 3:30 PM (#168331 - in reply to #168200)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
1958 Fireflite 2HT, red body with white sweep and roof. Power brake and steering, P-seat, P-windows, five button and dual ants, dual mirrors, solex throughout. Interior red vinyl with grey patterned cloth inserts on seats and door panels. Data code reads: 646
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-03-25 3:32 PM (#168332 - in reply to #168331)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto Data Tag



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
The above car came out of Alberta, Canada. How does a Canadian car come marked to distinguish it from U.S. built cars ?
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