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   Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> Miss Belvedere - The Unearthed Tulsarama Plymouth!Message format
 
FinFury57
Posted 2008-05-01 8:38 AM (#128011)
Subject: Check this...



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Take a look what's on eBay right now...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THE-Cover-1957-Plymouth-Tulsarama_W0...





Edited by FinFury57 2008-05-01 8:43 AM




(9316_12.jpg)



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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-01 8:50 AM (#128013 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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HMMmmmmmmm.. Strange that the Seller is in New Zealand.. Possibly a Photo Shop Pic,s.. I would be Very Careful of a Scam.. And Want Documented Proof this is the Genuine Article..
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-01 3:00 PM (#128076 - in reply to #128013)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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How close is "East Tamaki" to Auckland?

I wonder what it cost, to ship it to NZ, from MD????
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-01 3:02 PM (#128077 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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It's funny how some of those pics look just like a close-up , of a covered small model car.
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-05-01 3:28 PM (#128082 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Sumthin' fishy about this one, but wouldn't it be cool...
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-05-01 3:31 PM (#128084 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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If you blow up the pictures the car looks more real. It's either a VERY GOOD unrestored model car or it is a real car.

As to the authenticity of the cover itself, I'm not sold... Why is it not in Tulsa or at Ultra None?
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61plymy
Posted 2008-05-01 7:41 PM (#128126 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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Maybe it will be like the shroud or Turin, mysteriously moving all over till Rome finally snagged it.

Does it have a picture of a 57 Plymouth on the inside of it, deposited in iron oxide? It will become a religious relic over time and become valuable!

Mike
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lawrence
Posted 2008-05-01 8:49 PM (#128134 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Who knows? Maybe Paula Hale could tell us what ever became of the ziplock bag. Back then they must not have known that blue and yellow make green.
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FURY
Posted 2008-05-02 2:33 AM (#128176 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: RE: Check this...



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...it's real...I've touched it...




(Cover.jpg)



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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-02 11:37 AM (#128211 - in reply to #128176)
Subject: RE: Check this...


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FURY - 2008-05-02 2:33 AM

...it's real...I've touched it...


"I can touch 'em... They're real enough for me!"
-Shallow Hal
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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-02 1:05 PM (#128232 - in reply to #128176)
Subject: RE: Check this...



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FURY - 2008-05-02 7:33 AM

...it's real...I've touched it...


Glenn,,

I touched it as well... ( in Tulsa ) ..............LOL

If this is Genuine , What is the Story on how it ended up in NZ
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FURY
Posted 2008-05-03 2:57 AM (#128345 - in reply to #128232)
Subject: RE: Check this...



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This is 100% genuine. This is the only cover that was buried with the Tulsa Plymouth, for 50 years. It is the real deal.
You can ask the seller questions on Ebay. He lives in the same city as myself, in Auckland, New Zealand. The cover has already been on display at a car show here.
Glenn.
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1958Paul
Posted 2008-05-05 12:29 AM (#128567 - in reply to #128345)
Subject: RE: Check this...



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-and how did He come into possession of such an important piece? This is a legitimate question -
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FURY
Posted 2008-05-05 3:09 AM (#128575 - in reply to #128567)
Subject: RE: Check this...



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It was destined for the bin out the back of the auditorium in Tulsa. The seller saved it, as he knew the significance of this historical piece. If he hadn't, the question would have always been "I wonder whatever happened to the cover...?". He went to great lengths to ensure it's safe keeping. I had been sworn to secrecy until now, and it's a secret that I really would have rather been able to talk to people about. This will be like 70 Hemi Cudas. Except it is rarer. It may seem expensive what it may sell for this week. Next year someone will sell it for twice the price, and the year after for 4 times the price, until one day you may never be able to afford it. His reserve price this week will seem like a steal next year....
If I had somewhere to display it then I would buy it myself. The seller wants to see it go to a public museum, where it can be displayed, so that everyone can enjoy it forever.
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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-05 5:59 AM (#128583 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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AHhhhh... So the Miss Belve Car Cover is STOLEN then,, ( Grand Theft Car Cover ) .. And them Smuggled Across Sea,s.. Left in Hiding for a Year, And then For Sale.. HMmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO..........

Seriously, I can,t believe they were gonna Bin It, Yet another Thing the Commitee got Wrong.. I wonder what 57 Heaven would have said HAD he Bought" Miss Belvedere ".. As that would of been part of the Display..

Good Call to Rescue it , Your Friend did well..
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dukeboy
Posted 2008-05-05 12:35 PM (#128618 - in reply to #128583)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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As many "Tulsa plymouth" crazy people that were there, I have a hard time believing that ONE (1) guy got the chance to own a piece of it....

I mean, if it's so "Rare" and "historical", then why didn't the Tulsa People "Auction" off the d@mn thing?

I can't believe they woulda passed up the chance to sell a peice of "History"......
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-05 6:03 PM (#128681 - in reply to #128618)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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I just sent Paula Hale a PM, asking her about the legitimacy of someone's allegedly having "given" the shoud, to its
profiteer (I mean: owner/seller).

Hopefully, he got a receipt for it's having been 'given' to him.

Receiving Stolen Property is frowned upon, in the U.S. .







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lawrence
Posted 2008-05-05 9:46 PM (#128725 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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I hate it for who hugged that cover and folded it. Death comes in 6 months to those who touch with ill intentions. FACT.
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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-05 10:05 PM (#128726 - in reply to #128583)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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I know the guy with the cover. I believe he asked the curator of 57 Heaven if they wanted to display it, but never heard back. As far as I'm concerned he has saved this piece, but then I don't want to get involved. However I did interupt a meeting of Tulsa City staff who were discussing whether to clean up the car before the unveiling and I begged them not to, and they listened. And I did jump over the fence and run past security during the unveiling to beg Boyds crew to stop polishing the car on stage (as by rights they didn't own it and I don't think that something this original and significant should be touched by people who are in the business of ruining classic cars (thanks to those guys for punching in the quarter light window by the way, I saw that..)), while thousands happily watched on and did nothing.

Tell me, does anybody know where the skids are that the car was on? A friend of mine tried to save them but ran out of time. In theory someone out there must know its whereabouts, because it to should have gone to 57 Heaven with the car. Surely it wouldn't have been thrown out?!
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2008-05-06 1:00 AM (#128737 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: RE: Check this...


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What do you mean " gone to 57 Heaven with the car" ?? Do you know something most of us don't??? Hmmmmm just when I thought Miss Belvy was a dead story she is revived. And don't just shrug off Lawerence's warning about ill gotten gains-- there is already a history behind that subject........................................MO
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2008-05-06 1:42 AM (#128739 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: RE: Check this...


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And who is Dwight who says he is the owner of Miss Belvy?.............................MO
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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-06 2:32 AM (#128742 - in reply to #128737)
Subject: RE: Check this...


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I said "should have gone", not "did go". The car should be in a vacuum sealed glass case in a museum for all to see, not getting chemically stripped! If by some miracle that the cover was not discarded then it would probably be chemically stripped too! Anyone know what happened to the bottom half of the cover? Surely that was saved since everybody apparently cares so much about it..
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-05-06 8:30 AM (#128749 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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The bottom of the bag was on top of the skid after the car was removed. I bet that part of the bag is still with the skid.
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-06 10:01 AM (#128752 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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I'm guessing the skid and the bottom of the bag were quickly thrown back into the hole and reburied when officials scurried to cover up the "mistake".

It pisses me off the way the car was such a big deal to city officials UNTIL it was found to be in less-than-perfect condition... Once that discovery was made, it seemed to me that organizers tried to take a giant step away from the car like it was a steaming mound of elephant sh!t. That's when the focus shifted to the contents of that dammed metal tank.

Why else would they simply GIVE away something like the car cover? I mean, until the car's poor condition was revealed, the bag itself was a major part of the legend!

Seriously... that TOTALLY pisses me off! NOT because some guy from New Zealand got the cover and I didnt. Fortunately for him, the guy was in the right place, asking the right questions at the right time. If given the opportunity, I would've gladly "rescued" that cover, too. Hell, ANY of us would have!

As far as profiteering, I agree with Neil. The bottom line is that someone basically scored this bag out of the dumpster for FREE --- and now they want BIG BUCKS to make sure this important piece of history is effectively preserved. Bullshirt!

Give me a BREAK! If you're really wanting to be altruistic about this... DONATE the freakin' bag to an automotive museum of your choice. Make them agree to display your name and photo beside the ill-fated tarp, and trade it to 'em for free tickets for life for yourself and all your family members. THAT's how to make sure it's appreciated!

It just frosts me because that bag/cover was PART OF THE EVENT! I didn't see the fat broad or Mr. "Old Faithful" giving away any of those 50-year-old commemorative plates, did you? HELL NO! Those things are probably on display at the historical society... and that's EXACTLY where the bag should be... If not in '57 Heaven or another reputable automotive museum.

Some parts of Tulsarama were executed BEAUTIFULLY... but other things that were overlooked or down-played really get under my skin!

Still, I wouldn't trade the journey for anything in this world... It was a great time amongst a great bunch of people.
I'll climb down off my soap-box now.

-NM

Edited by Nathan D. Manning 2008-05-06 5:36 PM
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My57Saratoga
Posted 2008-05-06 5:07 PM (#128796 - in reply to #128752)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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As usual Manning nailed it!
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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-06 6:21 PM (#128809 - in reply to #128752)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Nathan D. Manning - 2008-05-06 3:01 PM

I'll climb down off my soap-box now.

-NM


NO NO Nathan.. Stay on the Soap-box, You are Doing Great.. But why don,t ya tell us how you REALLY Feel, And this time DON,T hold Back......... LOL
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-06 6:36 PM (#128813 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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It may be well for the profiteer that that car cover remains outside the U.S.

The car cover probably lawfully belongs to the family which won the car.

Just as for Nazi-stolen artworks, claim(s) may be made for the rightful ownership of that car cover, in the future.




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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-06 6:54 PM (#128819 - in reply to #128813)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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I agree with Nathan. I'm glad it was saved and I hope it ends up in the right hands so it can be preserved. I wouldn't call 1000 bucks "big bucks" though, but that's beside the point, and it's not my business to comment and quite frankly I don't care as long as it doesn't get chemically cleaned or ripped up or thrown away. I know the guy who's got it is very concerned about it's future, which is why he got it in the first place. It was done with the same passion that a lot of us feel when we are importing old wrecks into our country, because if we don't get them they end up getting crushed. I see alot of stuff coming in and getting fixed up that would barely be considered parts cars over there, so give us credit for that at least. Anyway, that's enough from me, I can see that this could get ugly :-)
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-06 6:58 PM (#128821 - in reply to #128819)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Yeah, Marc; that guy is so altruistic that he'll SELL it to anyone, for OVER $1,000.00 .

Buyer beware.
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1958Paul
Posted 2008-05-06 7:06 PM (#128823 - in reply to #128819)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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I have to say - if this Savior was really so interested in saving this piece - he should donate it (as he got it for free anyway) to any one of a number of great Tulsa Museums - or even the Smithsonian - "the guy who's got it is very concerned about it's future" - yeah for a thousand bucks - Judas
http://www.gilcrease.org/
http://www.tulsahistory.org/
http://www.darrylstarbird.com/index1.htm
Just to name a few -
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hemidenis
Posted 2008-05-06 10:59 PM (#128858 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: RE: Check this...



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It was very estrange that day, i could take anything from the time capsule table, i hold a big book in my hand and show it to my wife, on the look of the Tulsa society, the only thing they told me was " put a glove before touch that" ?, funny i could walk away with a piece of history, but i didn’t. I not wonder that the Tulsa people give away the tarp, for them was just a dirty piece of crap.
During the Show, I moved the Antique American flag from the floor, because people was steeping on it, and left a dirty mark on it, that really freak me out. Nobody said a word.
But i took my souvenir form the event, i have pieces of the time capsule, i just went in to the back after the event and pick all pieces of rusted metal from the floor, in the exact location where they where chopping the tank with a grinder... Also a piece of wood 2x4 used for the guys to hold the car i guess but not sure, because they ending up using plywood.
Seen that tarp overseas, just confirm that the whole event was a Joke.




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(grinds.jpg)



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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-06 11:53 PM (#128861 - in reply to #128823)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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Some good points raised for sure..
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-07 12:30 PM (#128926 - in reply to #128819)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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suburbanite100 - 2008-05-06 6:54 PM
...I wouldn't call 1000 bucks "big bucks" though, but that's beside the point...


Pardon me... But have you paid any attention to the U.S. economy lately?

-NM
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-05-07 1:49 PM (#128950 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Hey, ins't that "Old Faithful?"

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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-07 2:06 PM (#128954 - in reply to #128950)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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57plymouth - 2008-05-07 1:49 PM

Hey, ins't that "Old Faithful?"



%#@&*!!!

-NM
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58 DESOTOS RULE
Posted 2008-05-07 2:21 PM (#128957 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: RE: Check this...



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Don't know what all the hoo-hah is about but technically I feel the cover should have gone with the car when it was presented to the family. Maybe the skid should have been preserved too as it would have made up the complete set. I don't know how it got smuggled out of the country to New Zealand but if he would listen to me, I would advise him to do the right thing and give it back to the family. Paying $1,000 US and up to buy it is a little mercenary.  
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Bart_59_Dodge
Posted 2008-05-07 4:09 PM (#128968 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Aaaaaaarrrgggggg... I'm so sick of this Miss B crap. When will it all end. Enough already.
It's an old rusty plymouth with no hope of ever being anything more...get over it..
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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-07 4:22 PM (#128970 - in reply to #128968)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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Bart_59_Dodge - 2008-05-07 4:09 PM

Aaaaaaarrrgggggg... I'm so sick of this Miss B crap. When will it all end. Enough already.
It's an old rusty plymouth with no hope of ever being anything more...get over it..


Bart...

Granted the event has come and gone...

But unless you were there, you couldn't possibly understand WHY it's such a big deal to many
of us.

If you didn't attend, however... I could see where you might feel the need to vent about
"this Miss B crap."

Meanwhile, a large number of us have invested alot of time and emotion,
not to mention miles of travel and $$$ into the events surrounding this car...

Therefore, you'll just have to forgive those of us who feel somehow entitled
to b!tch and moan about the way things were handled.

-NM

Edited by Nathan D. Manning 2008-05-07 4:29 PM
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57plymouth
Posted 2008-05-07 4:22 PM (#128971 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Skroo you Bart.
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Bart_59_Dodge
Posted 2008-05-07 5:15 PM (#128979 - in reply to #128970)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Nathan D. Manning - 2008-05-07 3:22 PM
Bart_59_Dodge - 2008-05-07 4:09 PM Aaaaaaarrrgggggg... I'm so sick of this Miss B crap. When will it all end. Enough already. It's an old rusty plymouth with no hope of ever being anything more...get over it..
Bart... Granted the event has come and gone... But unless you were there, you couldn't possibly understand WHY it's such a big deal to many of us. If you didn't attend, however... I could see where you might feel the need to vent about "this Miss B crap." Meanwhile, a large number of us have invested alot of time and emotion, not to mention miles of travel and $$$ into the events surrounding this car... Therefore, you'll just have to forgive those of us who feel somehow entitled to b!tch and moan about the way things were handled. -NM

I've been silent for the better part of a year. Yeah, I get some of the sentiment over Miss B ( to a point. )

I would have thought the magic of the event was more about the gathering of friends, than over the object itself. Basically, a rusted Plymouth.  

No apologies, no change of heart. After a year of this nonsence, I'm entitled to my opinions too, ...and Brian,... Skroo you right back.

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lawrence
Posted 2008-05-07 6:52 PM (#128990 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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Nah, we went to see "the car". The meeting of friends and all the nice cars smoothed out the condition of "the car". We didn't chase the car around for blocks because we didn't care. I think a lot of us have years of emotion/expectation in that car.
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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-07 7:29 PM (#129000 - in reply to #128926)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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Have I seen the u.s. economy lately?!?! From what I recall it takes an average earner about 10 years to pay off an average house over there, compared to around 25 years here. And our gas and food is still twice as expensive and we earn less, and our dollar's worth nothing compared to yours. Our interest rate on mortgages is around 11% and we have to import all our decent forward look cars from the u.s. and buy them in u.s. dollars. So cry me a river!!!

Oops, that's right, I wasn't going to comment any more on this thread, I really don't want to get involved :-)
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Rebels-59
Posted 2008-05-07 7:45 PM (#129003 - in reply to #129000)
Subject: Re: Check this...



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suburbanite100 - 2008-05-08 12:29 AM

So cry me a river!!!



MARC,, are you in NZ yourself then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..

I love that Phrase ,, Wonder if the US members know the reply.. LMAO
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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-07 7:55 PM (#129006 - in reply to #129003)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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Yeah I am (and no I'm not the one with the cover - I'm just feeling a bit vocal). In terms of the u.s. economy, I pretty much only buy stuff that's made here, Australia, or the U.S. (and if I buy stuff from the U.S. I always stipulate that it has to actually be made there). But when I'm over there I see most people driving Japanese or European cars. I just don't get it. If I was over there and had no money (for example) I'd be driving a slant six Valiant, not a freakin Camry. Anyway, I hope anyone complaining about the U.S. economy isn't buying Japanese cars or other overseas goods..

Oh man, I gotta shut up.

That's it, I'm not saying anything for at least 24 hours!
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-07 9:02 PM (#129013 - in reply to #128011)
Subject: Re: Check this...



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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I received a message from Paula Hale, today, regarding my having informed her of the Profiteer's attemped sale
of the "Shroud of Touring" aka: Ms Belvedere's 'wrapping, and I quote her, verbatin :

" No, I had no idea he was selling it, and certainly not aware of anyone giving it to him [the seller].

I would like the auction site. Thanks! "

So, having been out-of-town, all day, I have just-now sent her the "auction" site, and will send her this message-thread,
as soon as I get done typing this, too.....






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Nathan D. Manning
Posted 2008-05-07 9:37 PM (#129023 - in reply to #129013)
Subject: Re: Check this...


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d500neil - 2008-05-07 9:02 PM

I received a message from Paula Hale, today, regarding my having informed her of the Profiteer's attemped sale
of the "Shroud of Touring" aka: Ms Belvedere's 'wrapping, and I quote her, verbatin :

" No, I had no idea he was selling it, and certainly not aware of anyone giving it to him [the seller].

I would like the auction site. Thanks! "

So, having been out-of-town, all day, I have just-now sent her the "auction" site, and will send her this message-thread,
as soon as I get done typing this, too.....



"The Shroud of Touring" HA!
Neil, you're freakin' killin' me, dude.

Good call...
LOVE IT!

Oh... And Mr. Suburbanite... If I do indeed cry you a river... Would you in fact build a bridge and GET OVER IT?
(Of course, I hope you would use only quality American steel to construct said bridge. )

I'll patiently wait 24 hours for your reply!

-NM

Edited by Nathan D. Manning 2008-05-07 9:41 PM
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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-08 12:20 AM (#129046 - in reply to #129013)
Subject: Re: Check this...


Member

Posts: 16

Could you ask her where the skid is that the car was on - I'd like to buy it to hang lights on in my garage and have it as a quirky talking piece :-)
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suburbanite100
Posted 2008-05-08 12:29 AM (#129047 - in reply to #129046)
Subject: Re: Check this...


Member

Posts: 16

Also, I don't think the cover was given to the seller, the story I heard is that it was rescued from the trash. Don't quote me though, I wasn't there, it could be chinese whispers.

Hey, the underneath of the cover would make a neat wall hanging for my study - anybody out there know it's whereabouts?

Ha ha. Hey, but seriously, where is all that stuff, and where do you supposed the cover would be if the guy who's got it went back to his hotel room that night and watched the idiot box or went out drinking

Hmmmm.. I also wouldn't mind some of the bottled rust that they've been hap-hazzardly stripping off the car, it would make neat presents for that special forward look enthusiast in your life.

Man the whole darn thing was mishandled, and it sucks. I remortgaged my house to travel halfway around the world, then drive halfway across the country in a 1000 dollar car, bustin my ass to get there early so I didn't miss the event I'd spent half my life waiting for, and when I got there they'd already pulled the cover off. Get your violins out for me..

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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2008-05-08 1:41 AM (#129054 - in reply to #128968)
Subject: Re: Check this...


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5060
50002525
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA
Bart_59_Dodge - 2008-05-07 3:09 PM

Aaaaaaarrrgggggg... I'm so sick of this Miss B crap. When will it all end. Enough already.
It's an old rusty plymouth with no hope of ever being anything more...get over it..
Bart, my friend--there are threads here on the FL forums that irritate me too. My opinion would not be appreciated ,sooo--- I just don't read them. .....................................MO
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d500neil
Posted 2008-05-08 2:28 AM (#129062 - in reply to #129054)
Subject: Re: Check this...



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Marc; you said you arrived early, in Tulsa.

Did you happen to stay at the Doubletree, or at the Crown Plaza, and did you get to the Courthouse on WED morning, to see the lifting of the vault lids?




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