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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | This support cooling fan is a homemade construction made out of bits N' pieces.
I made a sleeve in my lathe with an excenter for to have a thicker side where the thermostate is mounted.
The thermostate closes the contacts at 92 degrees and opens the contacts at 82 degrees (Celsius).
The thermostate is connected to a relay, which in turn starts the cooling fan if the temperature rises over the 92 degrees.
Clearly everything is mounted in existing holes and can very easily be demounted withouth a trace
Edited by wizard 2008-07-13 11:52 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3396
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Nicely done just like a modern coolant temp switch in a computer controlled car. |
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Expert
Posts: 2824
Location: Snohomish, WA. | Gees, Sven.....what the hell!!
This is just too modern a option for these cars. You are gonna cause your engine to sludge up if you only let it get up to 92 degrees.
Oh...........Celsius! Ahhhhhh. So what was wrong with the thermostat? Did it go into the round file now that you have this new electrically operated fan under thermostatic control?
Nice job, Sven. Looks nice down there. Do you think only 10 degrees of hysteresis is gonna do it?
Mike |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | This is only a support cooling fan Mike, there's nothing wrong with the standard cooling system - it's totally intact. The problem is on cruises or quoees in to a meet, waiting and creeping for up to an hour with only the belt driven fan - just aint enough. The 10 degree Celsius hysterisis is exactly what all the normal modern cars use, so that will do just fine.
The support fan will only start to work at slow to creeping speeds and practically never on highway traffic. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Any perticular reason you installed the temp unit to turn on your fan in the lower hose, as it's the coolest point as the radiator gets it's daw off the lower hose....Woulda thought you'd have put it in or next to the upper hose, as it's the hottest point coming to the radiator to be cooled...
The fan would run longer to help cool if that temp unit were installed closer to the upper hose/thermostat....Just wondering.... |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | No Chaney - you would want it on the lower hose - because then it reacts when the radiator starts to feed too hot water to the engine. If you mount it on the upper hose, then the support fan will be engaged in continuous due to the hot water coming out from the original thermostat, which can be 87 to 92 degrees Celsius easily on a hot day if you be locked in a queue.
This is my theory - still needs to be tested in practice!
Edited by wizard 2008-07-15 4:02 AM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | Seems logical, but still say it should be near the hottest point, but..Try it and see... |
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Location: philadelphia | does the shroud in front of the radiator have any effect while driving. i to have the same problem when waiting in traffic. city traffic at ruch hour sucks. ive switched between mech and electric fans with no improvement. sitting in traffic temps goes upwards of 210 easily. im hesitant to put a pusher fan with a shroud on my radiator. dont want to find out the hard way that it doesnt work. although i have seen it done on some top dollar cars who claim that they are actually driven. |
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | The temp sender in all engines I have seen is near the engine side of the T'stat never in the lower hose. Normally there is about a 20-25 degree difference in coolant going into the rad. vs coming out |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9664
Location: So. Cal | I like where you put it. My Japanese EFI cars have the temp sender for the fan relay in the bottom tank of the radiator. Just like you say, the fan only comes on when the radiator has insufficient air flow. I would have soldered a sender mount in the bottom tank to save having to make the hose mount though. You did a great job on the machining. Can I interest you in more work?  |
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Location: So. Cal | I forgot to ask... What was the original application for the electric fan? It doesn't look aftermarket and it seems to be a convenient size. |
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Location: philadelphia | you guys bring up a good point about what position it should be in. with my sending unit next to the upper hose i wonder how accurate my gauge actually is. if it is giving a false reading and my temp is actually lower i might not hesitate to drive around town as much. i guess i will have to stick a thermomator in the lower hose to find out. i have used one of those infrared ones but i kept getting bogus readings. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Really the fan is a SAAB item, but I have no idea which model it is. Just asked for a good fan in approximately the size that I needed and he rumbled around a little and gave me that one. It really do make a BIG difference in temperature, although it have never started automatically yet. That made me think that it was not working properly, so I retested the system and it proves to work correct and good. Since I mounted the unit, I have added an override toggle switch hidden under the panel.
The system still works totally independently and automatic, but now I can start the fan ALSO with the override switch. I thought, why wait until the water eventually gets too hot and then cool it down? Now IF I come to think of it, I can start the fan at the temperature rise - if I forget it, it will still start automatically. |
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Location: NorCal | wizard - 2008-07-15 1:00 AM
No Chaney - you would want it on the lower hose - because then it reacts when the radiator starts to feed too hot water to the engine. If you mount it on the upper hose, then the support fan will be engaged in continuous due to the hot water coming out from the original thermostat, which can be 87 to 92 degrees Celsius easily on a hot day if you be locked in a queue.
This is my theory - still needs to be tested in practice!
I think you'll find that most aftermarket fan makers specify the sensor be placed in the upper hose or the top tank of the radiator; the exceptions are fans with exotic controllers, they often specify down near the outlet or in the lower part of the core.
I also think you'll find that the front mounted shroud will obstruct the airflow to such a degree that the fan will need to run all of the time anyway. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The system works totally perfect - no obstruction for the air at highway speeds - fan never starts in highway speeds - fan seldom starts in cruise speeds and queue - just like I wanted the system to work. Mounting the sensor high up on the radiator will get you a cooling system that works in cycles as the hot water trigs the sensor. Mounting the sensor low in the radiator will get you a SUPPORT cooling system (though many asian cars have low position of the sensor) There is absolutely nothing exotic in the controling - a normal relay is mounted, with on/off function.
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | gibson92787 - 2008-08-27 10:47 AM
you guys bring up a good point about what position it should be in. with my sending unit next to the upper hose i wonder how accurate my gauge actually is. if it is giving a false reading and my temp is actually lower i might not hesitate to drive around town as much. i guess i will have to stick a thermomator in the lower hose to find out. i have used one of those infrared ones but i kept getting bogus readings.
You wanna know how hot your engine is, NOT how cool your radiator can cool the coolant..... |
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Well im going with an electric support fan, I ordered everything and should have it next week.....
I guess the stock 4 blade fan just cant keep my engine cool spinning at 700 rpm's idle or 2000 rpm's
cruising around..... tired of watching the temp gage max out..... I will post pics and give an update
on things next week..... |
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Expert
Posts: 1208
Location: SWITZERLAND | Swen, to have the temparature sensor on the lower hose is definitly wrong. As already stated above the temperature of the enigine, resp. the water ot the engine has to be controlled.
On my 59 Dodge Conv I have mount a Dual Fan controlled by an electronic box especially for this purpose, the sensor-element beeing placed in the top of the cooler. With a trimmer the temperature to switch ON/OFF can be adjusted. No other Switches, just 12V from the Ignition-Switch, the relays and the fan directly connected to the battery (needs about 30A). When the engine ist switched off, also the fan will stop. I have seen cars the fan is still working, when the driver has left. This doesn't help because the water pump also doesn't work anymore.
The disantvantage of a fan: it prevents a direct and opened air-flow when not on. The it will be shlightly driven by the air-flow through the cooler when driving.
Anyway - it's a temperature problem when waiting long time with standing car and engine at low idle. Other experiences?
By the way- your docs and comments are very interesting and helpful. Thanks. - SERGE -
Edited by sermey 2008-11-06 2:22 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Serge, just a reminder - this is a SUPPORT cooling fan - I still use the normal fan and the support fan kicks in ONLY if the outgoing water from the radiator is too hot. So that means that in normal traffic, city or highway, the support fan DOES NOT kick in - only in queues or on slow cruises in hot temperature. This system works perfect for me and on top of that, I have a manual override switch.
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Veteran
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Location: Henderson, T.N. | I have my fan temp cencer up by the top rad, hoes but the thing just about over heats befor the fan comes on and its only on for a few seconds(about 5 sec.).Its a fan relay and temp switch I picked up at auto zone about $25.00 |
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Location: Missouri | wizard - 2008-11-06 1:32 PM
Wizard, I use a 7-blade steel fan on my 440, without a spacer (no room), a fan shroud on the 4-row recored rad, and also have a support pusher fan that I manually run from my 2-speed heater blower switch when I get in slow traffic. I use a 160 D. stat, and have an A/C water pump. Despite all of this, it still doesn't stay cool, until I get out of the slow traffic & get on an open road for a bit. During highway cruising the temp is just fine. BTW, the stat I'm using is a full flow style Mr. Gasket, and before that I used a Gates 160 but tried a 180 as well. I'm going to pull the radiator soon & have it flow-checked, because I've run out of ideas as to what the problem is. Do you have any suggestions? Harold
Serge, just a reminder - this is a SUPPORT cooling fan - I still use the normal fan and the support fan kicks in ONLY if the outgoing water from the radiator is too hot. So that means that in normal traffic, city or highway, the support fan DOES NOT kick in - only in queues or on slow cruises in hot temperature. This system works perfect for me and on top of that, I have a manual override switch.
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | First of all, are you ignition timing correct? Check the timing according to the manual. After that, I would check the flow of the radiator. What about the vanes of the waterpump? Do you know if they're rusted down i size? Demount the thermostat and check the actual water flow through the radiator lid. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | badbelair - 2008-11-06 8:07 PM
I have my fan temp cencer up by the top rad, hoes but the thing just about over heats befor the fan comes on and its only on for a few seconds(about 5 sec.).Its a fan relay and temp switch I picked up at auto zone about $25.00
Most aftermarket fan sensors are set up for MUCH newer cars temp setting's when they kick in the fan @ Around 226 Degrees....This isn't uncommon for a newer car, but for an older one, it is too hot.... |
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Expert
Posts: 2679
| dukeboy - 2008-11-11 12:08 PM
badbelair - 2008-11-06 8:07 PM
I have my fan temp sensor up by the top rad, hose but the thing just about over heats before the fan comes on and its only on for a few seconds(about 5 sec.).Its a fan relay and temp switch I picked up at auto zone about $25.00
Most after market fan sensors are set up for MUCH newer cars temp setting's when they kick in the fan @ Around 226 Degrees....This isn't uncommon for a newer car, but for an older one, it is too hot....
Make sure when you buy the sensor it is 180 on and 170 off..... thats what im using.... my sensor is on the top radiator hose also down by the thermostat cover...... sounds like your sensor is 225 like Dukeboy has said.... you can get the 180 degree ones on ebay... or check your local auto store....
You can see where I puth the sensor on the top radiator hose....
Edited by 59CRL 2008-12-06 8:59 AM
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Support cooling fan
