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1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando
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Rebels-59 Coronet
Posted 2008-07-30 4:07 PM (#139655)
Subject: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



500050001000100100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
In...Siler City, NC,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&ssp...

Description
Up for auction is a rare and powerful early musclecar: a 1960 Plymouth Belvedere with Sonoramic Commando Power. This is a two-door hardtop car with a manual transmission and a 383 with two "ram-tuned" four-barrels. The car was bought new in WV and then purchased by a dealer employee at 1100 miles and that is where it was found. The original owners manual, a service reference book, care manual, and a Build Sheet from daimler chrysler’s corporate historian are included.



The vehicle number from the driver’s-side door jamb is: 3201198926.

There are 82839 miles indicated on the odometer.



The Sonoramic Commando engine option was offered in 1960 -1961 and was available in two displacements: a 361 and a 383. The engine code under the distributor mounting pad reads "P-38" and "4-20" indicating that this SonoRamic Commando has the 383. This engine was rated by Plymouth to have 330 hp @ 4800 rpm and 460 lb-ft of torque. (In 1960!) It features a unique 30" cross-ram intake manifold with two Carter AFB four-barrel carburetors. The original exhaust manifolds are on the car with the exhaust tubes to the intake manifold. The original air cleaners are in the trunk.



This car also has the super-rare manual 3-speed transmission. Some sources say this car may be one of very few that is correct with the manual transmission and this engine. It was converted by it's previous owner from column-shift to floor-shift, but the original steering column, a steering wheel, linkage, and other parts are included in this auction. The automatic transmission block-off plate is on the dash and the car has removable inner fenders to access the spark plugs. Local collectors tell us that it would not have been uncommon for this car to have a red engine. This car also has swivel seats which I am told is very rare on a Belvedere.



There were two tags under the hood -One on the firewall and one on the radiator support that I removed for pictures.



The previous owner since 1966 worked at the dealership where the car was bought new and says he bought the car when the original owner’s wife didn’t want the manual transmission.



This was formerly a West Virginia car -so it is rusty, but was being kept in a shed. There is rust along the base of the rear window and behind the front wheel well openings. The floorboards are soft, there are holes in the trunk floor, and the rocker panels and fender skirts are rusted. These sheet metal items need replacing. Some rocker panel repair panels came with this car and will be included in the auction.



The engine runs with minimal effort, but needs a thorough tuneup. We have moved the car around the parking lot, but there are no brakes (the pedal goes to the floor) so we have not road-driven the car.



Do not miss this chance to own a very early (and extremely rare) muscle car with two four barrels and a manual transmission.



Please email me with any specific questions, concerns, or picture requests –I have many more pictures.



The title has been switched to the current owner in NC and differs from the picture.

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Rebels-59 Coronet
Posted 2008-07-30 4:07 PM (#139657 - in reply to #139655)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



500050001000100100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
.



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Rebels-59 Coronet
Posted 2008-07-30 4:08 PM (#139658 - in reply to #139655)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



500050001000100100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
.



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Rebels-59 Coronet
Posted 2008-07-30 4:09 PM (#139659 - in reply to #139655)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



500050001000100100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
.



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Rebels-59 Coronet
Posted 2008-07-30 4:09 PM (#139660 - in reply to #139655)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



500050001000100100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
.



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Attachments 47.jpg (33KB - 43 downloads)
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Rebels-59 Coronet
Posted 2008-07-30 4:09 PM (#139661 - in reply to #139655)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



500050001000100100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
.



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Rebels-59 Coronet
Posted 2008-07-30 4:10 PM (#139662 - in reply to #139655)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



500050001000100100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
.



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2008-07-31 12:25 PM (#139766 - in reply to #139662)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



5000500100100100100252525
Location: The Mile High City - Denver CO
Neat! I'll be interested to see what Joe has to say about this one!
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d500neil
Posted 2008-07-31 4:25 PM (#139786 - in reply to #139766)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 17910
5000500050002000500100100100100
Location: bishop, ca
I would say that it's being 'rescued' not a moment too soon!

Where would the transmission model number be stamped onto it?

Trans-code is "1", so that's a manual model---funny that the Corp didn't know that.

Axle is a "2", which probably confirms the 3.73:1 with the "1" being standard 3.23:1 (IIRC) and the "3" axle being the
economy 2.93:1 (?) , altho the "1" might be the 2.93:1 ; not certain about PLY's.





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DK's300
Posted 2008-07-31 7:15 PM (#139808 - in reply to #139786)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
I have no idea if or where any trans model number would be stamped on the car or IBM card, but according to the parts book the only manual trans behind a Dodge or Plymouth (or DeSoto) B Block in 1960 was a T-85.

FL'er CustomRoyal also has a big block manual trans equipped '60 Fury convertible as well, but I don't know if it's a Sonoramic. He might be able to shed some light on the numbers and codes. A previous owner changed his from column to floor shift as well. I guess the floor shift is cooler.

With the floor shift and gauges over the RV mirror, I wonder if this one saw any track time. I'm sure it launched from one or two stoplights in the day.

Yeah this thing is a bad@$$. Just noticed the front swaybar, exhaust crossover tube (don't know if that was standard for crossrams or not) and what looks to be a pretty deep sump on that oil pan. I would've been racing it. I wish I had more money...

Edited by DK's300 2008-07-31 7:22 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2008-07-31 7:28 PM (#139810 - in reply to #139808)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 17910
5000500050002000500100100100100
Location: bishop, ca
The T-85 was a 3-speed?

There were quite a few improvements to the CHRY 3-spd trannie, after 1957, as far as gear ratios and strength/durability
is concerned.

I'm trying to confirm the part number for the 'best' 3-speed transmission, prior to the advent of the 4-spd floor shift (which
was called, by MoPar Action the "Guess-a-Gear" trannie; that may be the T-85 guy.)



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DK's300
Posted 2008-08-01 1:02 AM (#139842 - in reply to #139810)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Yep T-85 was a 3 speed and the basis for the T-10 4 speed. Ma MoPar only used them on '58-'59 power wagons, '60 B block equipped Dodge, Plymouths and DeSotos and '62-'63 Max Wedges. T-85s were used on a lot of other makes and models and were very popular among the rodders (so I've read). I don't think it was the notorious "guess-a-gear".
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d500neil
Posted 2008-08-01 3:28 PM (#139872 - in reply to #139842)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 17910
5000500050002000500100100100100
Location: bishop, ca
It may have been the 4-spd T-10's shifter (not the trannie) , that M.A. was referring to, in regards to the later Hurst 4-spd shifter.

I remember the term "Inland"[-rods?] in reference to the poor shifting quality .

Nobody, yet, has posted/published a definitive listing of the model-numbers/part-numbers of the various 3-speed trannies, from
1956 [ which reportedly had a unique beefed-up trannie in the D-500-1 race car, which may have been different from the
Furys/300's/IMP's] thru 1961, including the gear ratios that were in them.

Asking/hoping to receive the other internal mods to them is probably way-beyond reality.





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DK's300
Posted 2008-08-01 6:21 PM (#139886 - in reply to #139872)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
That would be a nice list to have. I imagine there would be a bit of research involve becuase they offered so many different engine options and several different trannies in each of those years. I think they finally actually went down to 2 or 3 in '61 - the A745 for "Heavy Duty" applications and the A245 for lesser ones (and maybe another). I have no idea where they drew the line. And that only lasted until '64 when they added a few more...

I think Inland was the in house shifter from the mid 60's to the 70's, thus keeping companies like Hurst and DragFast in business.
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d500neil
Posted 2008-08-01 6:49 PM (#139923 - in reply to #139655)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando



Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 17910
5000500050002000500100100100100
Location: bishop, ca
.....because the Inland shifter was so BAD , lololol??

It would be neat to know the P/N's of the hi-po trannies, so that one could positively-ID one of them, if he found one lying around
a wrecking yard; I know that I would like to install one of them in my ride, if I had a manual-shift car.

"Hey,man, check THIS out! this is a yadayadayada-one; I'm gonna go STEAL this guy, right now !"





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CustomRoyal
Posted 2008-08-01 10:41 PM (#139958 - in reply to #139808)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando


Veteran

Posts: 189
100252525
Location: Massachusetts
Yes, The car on Ebay is a factory built car. I looked it up in Darrells book. It is one of 47 Belvedere 2 dr ht sonoramic 383 stick T-85 cars built.
The factory code on the 60 Plymouth T-85 transmission is a code 0 or 1. They used either code. I'll get the numbers off the case tomorrow and post them. My car is a Sonoramic Fury T85 conv. 1 of 36 built. I bought a 60 Plymouth 2 dr sedan pursuit police car with a T85 to get an extra trannie and linkage I needed. I will put an automatic in it and resell it. The Borg Warner T85 used in the 60 Dodges and Plymouths, are a 1 yr only transmission. They were used again in 1962 on the max wedge cars with adifferent gear ratios. 1961 they used a new process unit that wasn't as durable.
The exhaust crossover was used all all ram cars.

Edited by CustomRoyal 2008-08-01 10:50 PM
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CustomRoyal
Posted 2008-08-01 10:48 PM (#139960 - in reply to #139786)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando


Veteran

Posts: 189
100252525
Location: Massachusetts
Neil
Axle code 1 is 2.93
2 is undefined. suspect its 3.23
3 is 3.31
4 is 3.54
others undefined
Engine code 4 is 310hp 361 sonoramic commando
5 is 325hp 383 golden commando
6 is 330hp 383 sonoramic commando
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DK's300
Posted 2008-08-02 1:08 AM (#139968 - in reply to #139960)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Were all Ram cars set up with dual fuel lines to the carbs or is that just another racing mod that was done on this car?
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CustomRoyal
Posted 2008-08-02 3:33 PM (#140024 - in reply to #139968)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere 2DR HT Sonoramic Commando


Veteran

Posts: 189
100252525
Location: Massachusetts
Single line from pump to rt carb then over to left carb was factory.
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