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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
  
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500neil - 2009-01-28 10:09 PM
I'm lazy: what has been the max-bid on Frostbite, previously?
The seller should be willing to deal on its sale, in THIS economy; he must need the money, over the possession,
of this car!
The Last 2 times was $12,050 and $12,700 the Latter.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | ...doesn't he get the idea?
How about a B-I-N price of $14K?
For that price, I'd be tempted (but, not too much; cash-is-King, now)
This would be a HELL of a nice car to buy and to preserve (until the money starts flowing, again).
OMG: two posts away from 5,000 posts.....
Edited by d500neil 2009-01-28 9:07 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ok; I just sent Clive some "Dodge Reporter" (in-house factory-dealership glossy monthly newspaper-) photos, which show
Regal Lancers on display.
BUMMERLY, I could not find the official Regal Lancer release-date in them; even the R.L. PRESS KIT that I have does not mention any Release Date.
A clue, however, will be the photo caption that says : "...This Custom Royal (not correctly identified, even, in-house !) has been on display in the Utica NY railroad station since the first of the year. ..."
Another Release-Date clue is found on the Regal Lancer "Announcement" fold-out brochure, which has
an issue date of 1/58.
It, and the other Regals appearing in the Dodge Reporter, are the gold-body, with white trim----apparently this scheme may have been the preferred scheme (or not; maybe they just happened to be on-hand, then, or, they were the first colors produced).
Unfortunately, there is no mention of any display of a Regal Lancer in the Florida area, in the Dodge Reporters.
But, their introduction appears to have been on or around 1/1/58 .
Another interesting factoid, from the Press Kit, is that "officially" (when the Press Kit's information was
being printed-up), the Fuel Injection D500 engine may still have been technically available, or else, the
factory just wanted to add on a few more words, about the optional performance engines.
If you'll recall, at least one 1960 4-speed 300 was built, due to the factory's advertising that it WAS
available, and the unhappy prospective buyer threatened to sue, if he was not permitted to BUY one !!
Too bad such a dedicated Fuelie-loving 58 Dodge owner didn't exist.
Edited by d500neil 2009-02-02 9:09 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500neil - 2009-02-03 1:29 AM
Ok; I just sent Clive some "Dodge Reporter" (in-house factory-dealership glossy monthly newspaper-) photos, which show
Regal Lancers on display.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | In that last pic, above here: the rear seat confirms that this car is a Regal; the second color is white, so, the
main body color must be bronze (again).
I think that these are different cars, but 'they' are all bronze, with white trim.
Dodge may have thought that this scheme was the most colorful, and/or dramatic.
Also, note the Press Kit's referral to the availability of the Fuelie engine (in very-late 1957).
And, for documentary-purposes; with 2 hours left to go, Frostbite has received a high-bid
of $11,000.00 (Reserve not Met).
Edited by d500neil 2009-02-03 5:37 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Fairfield County, CT | Neil,
Interesting that many of the early Regals and those used in promotion were painted XSX. The original owner of my car was from the Albany NY area. I wonder if it's possible that my car was used for showroom or display purposes? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Great photos, Neil! I have often heard the Regal referred to as a sub-set of the Custom Royal model. The Collectible Automobile article referred to it that way.
You're right, Joe. As I looked at those photos, I wondered "where are they now?" Most likely, they have perished, but you never know... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | JOE: lol: how far is Utica from Albany?
You never know; that might be your car; it's got clear glass, though, and it may have dual rear antennae on it.
It also looks to have OEM (probably) undercoating on it.
A lot (vast majority) of the Regals have passed on, but there statistically seems to have be a large number which
have survived----how many "Frostbites" are still out-there????
LOL: notice the typo, in the description of the Regal's "Ram Fire" D500 engine?
Edited by d500neil 2009-02-04 5:14 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I just sent Clive some interesting mini-articles, from the 3/58 MoTor Trend.
In the "Bucket Seats, Bronze Tone" article, it states that the ONLY color combinations was/were the BRONZE body
with either white, or black, trim.
I gotta go back and re-read the Press Release, to see if it mentions the FOUR color combinations.
If so, then the MT articles were apparently written prior to the issuance of the Press Kit.
If the earliest models WERE only bronze-bodies, that would explain the absense of the white and the black bodied models,
until sometime after early-January, 1958---and maybe until as late as March, 1958?
Edited by d500neil 2009-02-05 8:04 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Frostbite just SOLD for $15,000.00
That's a VERY fair price for it.
Hope that it gets properly restored.
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500neil - 2009-02-06 12:41 AM
I just sent Clive some interesting mini-articles, from the 3/58 MoTor Trend.
In the "Bucket Seats, Bronze Tone" article, it states that the ONLY color combinations was/were the BRONZE body
with either white, or black, trim.
I gotta go back and re-read the Press Release, to see if it mentions the FOUR color combinations.
If so, then the MT articles were apparently written prior to the issuance of the Press Kit.
If the earliest models WERE only bronze-bodies, that would explain the absense of the white and the black bodied models,
until sometime after early-January, 1958---and maybe until as late as March, 1958?
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | .
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I just sent Clive a pic of a page from the Regal's Press Kit's Press Release (undated, drat) , which confirms the existence of four exterior color schemes.
A CAREFUL reading of the Press Release confirms that, Apparently, MT may have written its mini-articles BEFORE the Press kit was produced, because MT only specifically mentions the bronze-body motifs, and not the white & the black body motifs.
You can't get a "four-way" color combination using just the bronze-body motif.
There WERE four separate paint schemes involved. I wonder if MT mis-read the Press Release, or, whether
the Regal lancers were, indeed, originally designed to have only the BRONZE body schemes, so that MT
merely 'correctly' quoted the initial production information which had been given to them.
Neat, huh?
The white & black bodies might have been after-thoughts/additions to the original marketing plan.....
Dammn, that was QUICK, Clive!
So, the Press Release states that the Regals were introduced at the 1958 Chicago Automobile Show.
I've just written to the Chicago Sun Times archives, asking for those dates.....
Edited by d500neil 2009-02-06 4:43 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Ooo! "white-gloved hot rodder" I love it 
Makes the "banker' hot rod" a little passe! |
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Location: Fairfield County, CT | Found some info on the 1958 Chicago Auto Show. From the photos it was Jan 4-12 and Dodge had a central display location. Does the Dodge display show a Regal Lancer? I can't tell.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, there WE go:
the 1958 Dodge Regal Lancer was introduced to the public at the Chicago Automobile Show
on SATURDAY January 4, 1958.
That show ran from 1/4/58 - 1/12/58 inside the International Amphitheater auditorium.
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Location: The Mile High City | Tough to tell, Joe. I squinted real hard and all I could see was the pretty lady! It doesn't look like it has that Regal color sweep to me...
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-02-09 11:34 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7206
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | It's too bad they didn't actually make those true bucket seats in the Regals, but I guess they were already engineering the 1959 type swivel seats. In retrospect, those swivel seats could have been made a whole lot more bucket like, with contoured bolsters etc. The first true Mopar bucket seats were on the 1960 300-F. Also I've always wondered, why the 1959 Custom Royal upholstery was not near as nice as the upholstery on the 1957 & 1958 Custom Royals, never mind the Regals. The 59's didn't have the plush looking horizontal pleats in the cloth sections that both 57's and 58s had. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | imopar380 - 2009-02-10 9:46 PM
I've always wondered, why the 1959 Custom Royal upholstery was not near as nice as the upholstery on the 1957 & 1958 Custom Royals, never mind the Regals. The 59's didn't have the plush looking horizontal pleats in the cloth sections that both 57's and 58s had.
********************************
To match all the other great things they screwed up for 59 !
Better get my "flame" goggles on !  |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I think that the 59 Doggies had flattie upholstery, to allow for easy ingress/egress, and, maybe, to avoid
the wear and tear that the tucked/rolled upholstery received.
BTW, the 58 Regal Lancer semi-bucket bench seat was actually depicted in the early 1957 advertising, which showed
the long-low profile shot of that red/white CRL 2-dr HT, with 4-5 "detail" illustrations, which appeared to be
'hanging' on a wall, above and behind the car .
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Location: The Mile High City | Our friend is selling his eggshell gem to keep the black beauty!
http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/1090850587.html $45,000 for a fully restored example seems like a reasonable price to get into the game! For sale is a 1958 Dodge Custom Royal Regal Lancer two door hardtop. (508-317-7092) This car was restored about 4 years ago by a previous owner. It has a white body with bronze roof, trunk, and side trim. The engine is a 350 cu. in. big block with 4 bbl. carburetor. The transmission is a 3 speed pushbutton torqueflite automatic. The car sports a beautiful reproduction interior just like the original. Runs and drives very nicely. This is a one year only model with very low production (1,163 units). Asking $45,000 possible partial MoPar trades. Call 508-317-7092
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-03-25 7:08 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | I don't think the white interior "stripe" is correct, but it looks pretty good. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, the seat vinyl can be replaced.
Depending on the physical condition of the car, $45K might be a reasonable auction value for it, so, the seller
might be amenable to negotiating a 10% price deduction on it, to reflect the net-come that he might receive for
the car, at an auction.
And, yeah, the prospective auction buyer would 'save' his own buyer's commission, too, on this private sale.
Edited by d500neil 2009-03-25 7:32 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | If you compare this car to the Frostbite, you could easily spend $30,000 on the Frostbite to get it close to this condition, but it would also cost you potentially years of effort and having the car off the road. With this one, sure you spend the $30,000 up front, but you are ready to enjoy right away. Sometimes, it makes sense to buy the restored car! |
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Location: The Mile High City | of the two east coast cars that I remember, this appears to be the better of the two. The other had the front bumper spuds, but it also had some after-market looking chrome wheel covers that made me very suspicious. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I agree with you, Mike; the current question is: WHO has $30K+ , today, to spend on buying this car, outside of
an auction venue?
Wow....talking about the state of the Economy: over on the GEN DISC Board, on that Las Vegas MoPar show
photos-thread, there's a sweet looking 300K that has an ASKING price of $13.9K .
Edited by d500neil 2009-03-26 4:43 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | All things being Forward Look, .... there is no such thing as a "sweet looking 300K". 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | .....howabout : "bitter-sweet looking 300K " ?
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Location: The Mile High City | Are you sure that isn't 300,000 miles? They did have some solid looking deals in Las Vegas...A K for that price in that conditions seems like a very good deal indeed. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ..welcome to the New Economy. |
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Location: The Mile High City | I friend of mine just sent me some very interesting pictures from the Richard Carpenter collection...
I don't know Richard Carpenter nor have I ever met him. I just know of him as a singer and a car collector. From what I know of him as a car collector, he is perhaps one of the best friends that the Forward Look era has ever had. It would be nice if he was a member of the website.
I don't think that I have ever seen this particular car before. If it is a true black over copper, it is the only one that I know of - and a D-500 to boot??? 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | THIS is the first black-over-copper Regal we've accounted for????
NAH; just went back and checked this thread's photos.
However, IF... this car is a real D500, it would appear to be ANOTHER car which we can add to the list
of known (semi-)surviving Regals. How many are we 'up' to, so far?
Wish I had a good contact at the Yesterday Once More place; would love to have a look at the car's P/T plate,
and a peek at the engine compartment.
Looks like the car has a tinted-only windshield; bet that it's aftermarket, and that the car originally had all-clear
glass in it.
Looks like Y-O-M painted the wheels PLY(?-) silver, instead of Dodge eggshell.
I don't have a clue about how/why those fender-top moldings got to be installed, on this car--not Dodge items!
This car has the silver-plated trunk "Dodge" nameplate; some CRL's had 'this' nameplate, and others have the gold-
anodized nameplate. There does not appear to be any pattern/reason for a car to have one, or the other, colored
"Dodge" nameplate on it.
Also note that this is one of those "coral" grille emblem cars, too, and, that this car has the "Bumper Group" option
(which happens to be the only-available [besides-Super-D] option which Aivar Lejin's Regal does NOT have on it).
Edited by d500neil 2009-04-22 5:33 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | We would have to see the cowl tag, but this may be the only one we know of that actually came that way from the factory(?). I verified that the Ruffalo / BJ car was originally copper over white. I think the two east coast cars were copper over white originally too(?) - don't know of any other black over coppers out there.
Those are '57 DeSoto fender ornaments. Nice looking, but too busy on this car. I had a fender for a '58 Dodge Spring Special that had one of those things mounted on it. |
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Location: The Mile High City | I don't know if it is a trick of the light, but the front hood letters appear to be chrome plated pot metal too. No silver annodized spears on this one! This may have gone through a pretty extensive restoration. I would love to get a look at the headliner / interior / engine bay. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | OK; but: there 'is' (hopefully-still-existing) that black-over-copper car, sitting in the field, in one of my earlier-
posted photos.
57 Soto ornaments, huh?---looks like those guys might already have been retro-fitted onto the car, when Y-O-M bought it?
Y-O-M didn't (bother to) research the wheel color, either-----if so, this implies that this car may have been in fairly good
physical condition when Y-O-M got it, as they might just have restored it, "as-purchased-by-them", without really having to do
any serious research on its finishing.
To avoid future embarrassment, if anyone has a personal reference there, he might tell them about the DeSoto fender trim on
it, so that Y-O-M might consider removing them, filling the holes, and touching-up the paintwork, before the side trim is installed.
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Location: The Mile High City | We may be looking at your field car...I recall that it had a chrome plated pot metal Dodge script on the trunk. I don't know if the "Regal Lancer" script came in either chrome plated pot metal or gold-annodized aluminum, but I would think that you would want all of the script and block letters to match (as opposed to mismatch).
YOM would do well to read this thread top to bottom and make fast friends with Aivar, Pat, Tom, Joe, and you too - Neil! We may be the only ones still reading this thread! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | The Regal once residing at Al's Auto Wrecking was black over bronze like this. I *think* I took the data tag and have it in my "pile"(?).
It only seems right that if a whole line of DeSotos got a Dodge nose stuck on them, that a Dodge got at least some DeSoto nose chrome stuck on its snoot too, don'tcha think ?
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Location: The Mile High City |
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Neil - if you're referring to the "eyebrow" fender moldings, they are not '57 as mentioned, but found only on '58 FireSweep and '58 Chrysler Windsor - I just got a nice AZ pair for my 'Sweep from Don Petty, and they came off a '58 Windsor, have the same part # on them and also in my 55-59 factory parts book.
Apparently they fit on '58 Dodge too in place of the narrower ones that were standard. Makes sense since the Sweep and I guess the Windsor also were made in the LA or Detroit Dodge plants. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Roger:
We were talking about the chrome ornaments just aft of the eyebrow trim, astride the top of the fender. I think those are '57 DeSoto issue... |
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Expert
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Location: NY & VT | Gotcha, yep I do believe those are '57... we used to call them "aimers" back in the day! lotsa chrome on that YOM car - I'd hate to pay for all that re-plating!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| Beautiful car. Originally from Massachusetts. Belonged to a friend of mine. Original colors and paint scheme. Mint original interior. Fender ornaments were on car when it was new. Saw photo from that time to confirm that. Holes on fender tops appeared to be factory made and not hand drilled. Car has a speedminder on the speedometer which was released in late 58. Only time I ever saw one on a 58. Often seen on 59 Dodges. Saw some factory literature advertising it once. Looks like they are freshening it up, since it was restored 15 yrs ago.
Jim |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hey, Jim; I don't know from-where the Dodge Main would have got those Soto ornaments, since they are 1957-items
and, of course, this car might be of late-58 production.
It also seems unlikely that Chubbie would add-on Fart-parts, which is kind-of what a putting-on-of-year-old-different-brand
parts would have been like, back then.
I know: never-say-never, but, this provenance, of 1957 Soto trim, "OEM-installed" on a top-of-the-line 1958 Dodge stretches
my credulity.
At least, the Speedminder APPEARED on factory literature....
I suppose that this car also came with its silver wheels, OEM, too ?
So, is this a car 'we' haven't previously accounted-for????
Love-ya, man, but "show me da MONEY", on this car's ornamentation.
Edited by d500neil 2009-04-23 11:14 PM
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| I know what you mean.... When Brian was restoring the car, he decided to leave them because of the factory appearing holes in the top of the fenders,and an old picture from the early 60's that showed them. The original owner owned a restaraunt/bar and worked 6 days/wk 12 hr days. He was Not mechanically inclined as I understand. No aftermarket items were on the car. The car was sold at a Dodge dealer that didn't sell Desoto. The car only had 32000 miles on it. The orig owner lived only 1/2 mile from his business and never used it much. So based on those facts Brian just decided to leave them on. Car was taken apart for restoration when he discovered it. Unfortunately build sheet was not in the car.
I'll check with with Brian on the wheel color. I don't remember.....
I don't think this one was ever counted.
Edited by CustomRoyal 2009-04-24 7:14 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2009-04-24 6:48 PM
..... a top-of-the-line 1958 Dodge stretches
my credulity.
*******************************
I had my credulity stretched once.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ..YEAHBUTT; I initially typed "credibility" !----had to go change that wording, pronto!!---as Sigmund's daughter once
said : "is my Freudian slip showing"?
Jim: does your friend have any vintage photos of this car, with its 1957 DeSoto fender trim installed on it?
Even so, the best 'explanation' for their appearance on the car may be related to a dealership add-on (unless the
Broadcast Sheet &/or the IBM card might have some explanation for their OEM existence.....)
You've heard of the Stockholm Syndrome, or Munchausen by Proxy, Imperial Russian family-survivors, and/or other associative
mental disorders? Unfortunately we (or EYE, anyway!) have a NEW automotive-related term, for a completely unique auto
provenance which is being claimed, but which is not, can not, or, has-not-YET been necessarily proven to be Original Equipment Manufacturer :
A GARLICK-mobile, or a GARLICK-option, or, just simply a "Garlick".....for a (Car-)Body Dysmorphic Disorder.
You heard it here, first.
Edited by d500neil 2009-04-24 5:06 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | CustomRoyal - 2009-04-24 5:11 AM
When Brian was restoring the car, he decided to leave them because of the factory appearing holes in the top of the fenders,and an old picture from the early 60's that showed them.
There is something to that. I was thinking of the "Frostbite" - the Regal that started this thread - and how the customization is part of the car in some way. I don't know about the seats, but the paint job - well, maybe it is part of the history of the particular car.
Curious that I have a '58 Dodge fender with the same ornament! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Now we may be getting somewhere.
Can you post a pic of your 1958 (?) Dodge fender, with the 1957 DeSoto(?) ornament installed on it?
Better-still, can you remove that ornament and provide its part number???
BTW, how do you know that your fender is from a 1958 Dodge, and not from a 1958 Firesweep, e.g. ?
I presume that the fender has dual headlamps, which would, at least, confirm its 1958-status.
Edited by d500neil 2009-04-24 8:10 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| I'll tell you, I remember looking at those holes in the top fenders. They looked punched at the factory. They were all lined up perfectly, no burrs on either side. Really looked factory made..... Weren't 57-58 Desoto firesweeps assembled at the Dodge plant? I think they were. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Fairfield County, CT | For what it's worth. I spent some up close and personal time with this car right after it was restored and took a bunch of pictures to use as reference when I got around to doing my car. Brian went to great lengths to make this car as correct as possible. Many cars don't look as good in person as they do in pictures. This one looks better. This car is probably the finest restored Regal in existence which is why it resides in Carpenter's collection now. I have to agree with Jim that as improbable as it might seem to have the Desoto trim on the fenders they seem to have been delivered that way. Remember that when it comes to Regal Lancer fenders they didn't use Coronet or Royal fenders that have the prepunched holes for the side trim because the trim was mounted higher and was double strips. Blank Dodge fenders without any script or trim holes are needed. The trim holes were hand drilled all the way down the side of the car. Could it be that when this car car came down the line no blank Dodge fenders were left due to the late production? Were Desoto fenders sourced and the top trim mounted to fill the prepunched holes on top? Stranger things have happened at Ma Mopar. This is probably the same car shown in another picture earlier in this thread with a second Regal with the same colors. There are 3 or 4 other Regals with the same ASA colors but I can't say if those are correct or a repaint like the Ruffalo car. I have it counted already in my list of 18 known. |
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1958 Regal Lancer
