The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

1961 floor shift cars
Jump to page : 1 2
Now viewing page 2 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> General Technical Discussion and TroubleshootingMessage format
 
Kenny J.
Posted 2009-05-30 10:27 AM (#176061 - in reply to #176057)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Inactive by user's request

50001000
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Ray Bell - 2009-05-30 6:41 AM

Now... Doc, I'm glad to see your attitude to having control over the gears in your car. Isn't it about time Kenny chimed in here and reminded us of his signature?



I haven't used that signature file for a long time, Ray. And I had to get rid of my last signature file because most modern Americans seem to see everything in "absolutes". Some of the jerks here were just lying in the weeds, waiting to pounce on me when they thought I was being a hypocrite.

Anyway, many of the Forward Look Era dashes were "neutral" (no pun intended) and lent themselves to either stick or automatic.

Now look at GM.......'58-'64 full size Chevrolets were also such cars, arguably leaning towards a column shift manual tranny. Automatic cars had the selector perched upon the column in a manner which made them appear as an after thought. The '65 and '66 full size Chevrolets, however, had inherently "automatic transmission dashes", as the many three-on-the-tree cars built those two years had a block off plate where the automatic selector would have been located.

The Astrodome dash Mopars could not accommodate a column shift.

Remember, since not all cars were built for hot rodders, nor were they designed for future generations to hot rod, the column shift was sensible for providing a space for a third front seat passenger.

Sure, column shifters didn't lend themselves to speed shifting nor to power shifting, but again, not every driver who purchased a new car was a street racer.

To me, saying all Forward Look cars were essentially "automatic transmission cars" would be like saying all were intended to be V-8, (and no less than a Hemi) or full frame cars, and those that did not have a push button automatic, bolted to a Hemi V-8, in a "real" car with a "real" frame isn''t what the designers intended.

K.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-05-30 5:20 PM (#176101 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Yikey; you are correct, I had thought that these two stick-Rammies were 413's, but they were 383 cars (huh).

There were 20 Seneca Rammies built; these two (West coast/East coast publicity-cars) may have been the only manual trannie Senecas, but, of the 383 single-4 models, there were only 3 Phoenix's built, in the Dart-series.





Edited by d500neil 2009-05-30 5:22 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2009-05-30 6:26 PM (#176109 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
I'm just glad that Lee Petty knew better, Kenny...

I agree that the pushbutton auto was one of the trademarks of the Forward Look cars, I see no issues with having those buttons blanked off.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-05-31 2:31 AM (#176166 - in reply to #176057)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
Ray Bell - 2009-05-31 6:41 AM


Now... Doc, I'm glad to see your attitude to having control over the gears in your car. Isn't it about time Kenny chimed in here and reminded us of his signature?

And is your 4-speed a Pont-a-Mousson, or a more modern unit like an A833?


*********************************

I think we might be crossing some wires here. I have an A-833 4-speed in my Coronet convertible, but that is a 66. My 60 DeSoto ran what I assume was a standard 3-speed with some beefy guts. It was fitted with the floor shifter I posted pix of yesterday or the day before. I plan to use the shifter to retrofit a Richmond Gears 5-speed into the 58 as a 4-speed with overdrive.

I just love those ultra rare floor shift cars with bench seats and no console, ..... just a stick poking up from the carpet ! Not stock, but I'll do my best to make it look as period correct as possible. My "restoration" goal is a 3 year old car owned by a performance guy. ..... period mods with a nice, but less-than-trailer-queen appearance.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2009-05-31 9:00 AM (#176184 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
Doc, I think it would be more rewarding, more fun, to use a 3-speed with the B-W overdrive...

Set it up so you can use it automatically, as the factory installed it, or so you can override that and use it manually. Wonderful! 6-speed clutchless (once you take off from a standstill) and great gearing.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-05-31 6:29 PM (#176241 - in reply to #176184)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
Ray, ....

Have you ever had the pleasure of driving a standard 3-speed in city traffic ? That non-synchro 1st gear will change your mind regarding "fun" muy pronto !

Sure would look fun sitting in a parking lot, though.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2009-05-31 7:04 PM (#176247 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
That was life as I grew up...

In our corner of the world, my teenage years saw the Holden filling about 65% of the market. No automatics in Holdens until 1961... the only widespread use of Autos in Australia were in the Customlines and Bel-Airs, while there was a number of Forward Look cars out there with them including the Chrysler Royal.

Most of the population who wanted autos had to wait for the Falcon to come out in late 1960 to find an 'average' family car without a clutch pedal. I never wanted one, of course.

We had traffic. I lived in Sydney, the most populous city in Australia, with about 2 million people at that time. Apart from the Holden, we had zillions of BMC cars. Morrises, Austins by the bucketload... some Vanguards, some British Fords like the Zephyr, Consul and Anglia. Of all of these, only the last-mentioned had synchro on first gear. Even the VW, selling in fair numbers, didn't have synchro on first until 1960 (the Anglia had it in '59).

So I drove cars with no Synchro on first gear in my formative years, matching the revs on downchanges, practising the art of double declutching. I even practised driving clutchless some of the time, just for kicks.

All the same, I'd rather have synchro. But I can live without it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2009-05-31 7:50 PM (#176252 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
By the way, the B-W overdrive overcomes that anyway, Doc...

When the overdrive is in operation, you have direct drive through a ball ramp, you don't need synchro... IIRC. Better... with overdrive in operation and engaged (now I've got to remember all this!) you can pull up at uphill traffic lights and sit there on the ball ramp... no brakes at all.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-05-31 9:10 PM (#176263 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1087
1000252525
Location: STL, MO
What's a rammie?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-05-31 9:34 PM (#176266 - in reply to #176263)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Steve, a Rammie kinda-technically refers to a car with the cross-rams intake manifold system; it can be used as
an adjective, like "Rammie-induction", but that is sort of awkward, instead of simply saying "Ram-induction (system)".

The 'ram' manifolds are designed so as to force in a concentrated amount of air/fuel mixture to the cylinder heads, in
a free (no engine drag or resistance involved) super-charging effect.

The ram manifolds are designed, or 'timed' so as to deliver more concentrated mixture, at a certain rpm/vacuum range.

The 1960 ram system had long(er) internal passages, which served to help low end/speed response.

In 61 (IIRC), a very-similar looking ram manifold (called the "short-Ram") was produced, which delivered its maximum-
concentrated air/fuel mixture at high(er) operating speed, for better top-end performance.

Somebody wanna post some pics of both systems, now, for posterity????





Top of the page Bottom of the page
B/G 61
Posted 2009-05-31 9:52 PM (#176270 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2613
2000500100
Location: Parts Unknown
Long Rams and Short Rams -



(long ram.jpg)



(short rams.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments long ram.jpg (72KB - 113 downloads)
Attachments short rams.jpg (74KB - 102 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2009-05-31 10:50 PM (#176278 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1087
1000252525
Location: STL, MO
I thought you were talking cross-rams but I wanted to be sure, now I can see how to tell them apart with the full versus partial split in the casting along the runners, makes for a quick ID, Steve
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-01 8:57 PM (#176412 - in reply to #176278)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
So, is that as far as our collective knowledge about these stick cars goes ?

No ideas on that white ball ?


Top of the page Bottom of the page
B/G 61
Posted 2009-06-01 10:43 PM (#176427 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2613
2000500100
Location: Parts Unknown
I DO NOT KNOW, however, I will now take the position that the white ball is a 1960 DeSoto item, possible 1960 Chrysler item, not a 1960 Valiant item. Now someone tell me what stand to take for the Dodge Lancer . . .

Edited by B/G 61 2009-06-01 10:45 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2009-06-02 3:04 AM (#176454 - in reply to #176427)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 1733
100050010010025
Location: Vancouver, BC
B/G 61 - 2009-06-01 7:43 PM

I DO NOT KNOW, however, I will now take the position that the white ball is a 1960 DeSoto item, possible 1960 Chrysler item, not a 1960 Valiant item. Now someone tell me what stand to take for the Dodge Lancer . . .


The 1961 Dodge Lancer was the same as the 1961 Plymouth Valiant - part number 2208 140. The 1960 Valiant was 2073 567. For 1962 the Valiant and Lancer dropped the deep dish steering wheel of 1960-61 replacing it with a shallow steering wheel. That permitted the stick shift to be located on the steering column. The 1960-62 Chrysler had the instrument panel problems but no other Mopar make.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
B/G 61
Posted 2009-06-02 5:51 AM (#176458 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2613
2000500100
Location: Parts Unknown
O.K. people, I'm locked in now. I will ALWAYS state that I am not 100% sure, but, I feel comfotable enough "sticking my neck out" whenever being asked in the future about 1960/1961 floor shift Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth/DeSoto's . . . . . . . (man, usually end up "headless" when I say that but . . .)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-02 2:33 PM (#176500 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Eh, yer doing FINE, Yikey!

The one true axiom on all things FWDLK is : "never-say-never" (or, I suppose: "always"....lololol)




Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-02 8:21 PM (#176552 - in reply to #176500)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
So, Bill ....

Any hard wisdom on the apps of that white ball shifter I posted the pic of above ?

Came out of my old 60 Fireflite 2HT.

Was this a 60-only, post Pont-a-Mousson shifter for the 3-speed as I have been told ?

I sure would like to confirm or debunk this after all these years of speculation and mystery.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-03 4:51 PM (#176654 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Well, from the photographic evidence, as shown on the other 1961 CHRY shifter thread, the Pont a Moussies have
black colored vase-like-shaped shifter handles, attached to straight-shifter rods (maybe with a bend, at their bases)
and the 3-speed 61's(IIRC) have the white tulip-head-shaped shifter balls.

Your billiard-ball-round shifter ball is not seen in any of the shifter photos, on either of these two threads, right????




Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-03 9:54 PM (#176684 - in reply to #176654)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
That is correct.

However, what I have been told and wish to confirm / debunk, is that this is a correct 1960 - post Pont-a-Mousson - floor shift mechanism.

We focus solely on the Pont-a-Mousson when speaking of 1960, and then jump straight to the 61 cars with the 3-speed and the tulip knob shifter. It has been asserted to me by a number of oldtimers back in the 80's that Mopar offered the 3-speed with floor shift in 1960. Can we confirm this ? If so, is this the correct shifter for 60-only (or did the little white ball get used in other apps?) .... if so, what ?

I know these sticks are rare as hen's teeth, so many do not even know they were even built, but this has been a nagging question for me for 25 years ! I want an answer !!!!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
B/G 61
Posted 2009-06-04 9:54 PM (#176796 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2613
2000500100
Location: Parts Unknown
Too bad the true answer hasn't come out yet . . . I did find a pic of a Lancer. I am posting it because I want this thread to go on until we get to the bottom of this



(lancer.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments lancer.jpg (118KB - 112 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2009-06-05 1:36 AM (#176810 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5118
5000100
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA
The answer is--- The white knobs were stolen off a Corvair...........................MO
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-05 11:01 AM (#176833 - in reply to #176810)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
MOPAR-TO-YA - 2009-06-05 10:36 PM

The answer is--- The white knobs were stolen off a Corvair...........................MO


***********************************

Them's fightin' words !
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-05 5:17 PM (#176872 - in reply to #176833)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
..What? "stolen" , or "Curvaire"... ?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-05 8:05 PM (#176886 - in reply to #176872)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
Don't play stupid with me, Amigo !
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-05 8:34 PM (#176892 - in reply to #176886)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
..Who's playing....?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-06 2:29 AM (#176922 - in reply to #176892)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
Hahahahahaha !

That could go two different ways, ..... either one funny !

I had a girlfriend years ago whose dad was a Corvair nut. He had several with turbochargers on them. They went pretty good for a little toad, but still were ugly as .....

I am not real happy with the cars that came out as the fin era unraveled. The Corvair probably ranks as about the least attractive of the lot. Cool in their own right, but repulsive if a nice finned car is put into the equation.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-06 5:06 PM (#177008 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Y'know what's interesting to consider about the 1960 American compacts?

they're all completely different from each other.

You had a REAL choice of styling and performance and engineering.

Lark , Rambler, Valiant, Falcon, Cur-fair; all significantly different.

Nowadays........?




Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-10 1:40 PM (#177506 - in reply to #177008)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
I'd still like to inspire some insightful response from Bill on this subject of the little white ball.

Something else I find interesting is the swing back towards floor shifters after a long industry hiatus. I have never really heard an insider reason for this happening when it did. Anyone have anecdotal input ?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-10 2:12 PM (#177513 - in reply to #177506)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
My anecdotal input is that if that shifter, when located in Lancaster County, PA, should have to be finished
in a different color (blue).

Sorry, that's my most insightful input on why the shifter ball is white.

I'm sure that Bill will agree with me.








Edited by d500neil 2009-06-10 2:54 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-10 2:22 PM (#177517 - in reply to #177513)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
Spanks, Neil. You are "lots" of help !

I'm gonna have to go pull the frog off the tender of 191 and get this train back on the track again. Or should I let you get all your sexy innuendo over with and THEN rerail this thread ?

How about that David Carradine, anyway ?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-10 2:56 PM (#177522 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
I don't think that anyone, here, knows the answer as to why your ball is white.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-10 3:45 PM (#177534 - in reply to #177522)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
Yeah, .... that is the problem.

I am old school, in that long before there was a a CHS, I was asking old heads why this and what that to try and get a handle on the mysterious make Mopar. Anything you wanted to know about GM was as easy as a phone call away .... VIN tracing, data tag decodes. It was simple and easy. But not Mopar. No one had them, no one liked them, no one knew a dam-ned thing about them. When you DID find someone, they might know a little about THEIR car, but little else. And half the time what they "knew" was boloney. It was a tough go.

I still do not consider the BS I was told to be rock-solid fact. I saw a lot out on the field, I talked to a lot of people. Some stories could be triangulated, others debunked. This one lingers as a major "WTF?" and being a stick loving kinda guy, it smoulders in the old craw as the one question I want answered !!!!

I hardly consider m'seff an expert on anything beyond navel lint and am just waiting for someone "all knowing" to uncrack their big book of Mopar facts and put this one to rest.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2009-06-10 5:10 PM (#177546 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
The return to floor changes came, I would think, because of the 'sporty' nature of the intrusive imports of the late fifties and early sixties...

IIRC, VW and Renault were making great ground in the US at the time and both makes had floor changes. Sports cars never went away from floor changes, Corvettes had them didn't they?

And then there was the emergence of 4-speed transmissions. The Pont-a-Mousson in Chryslers in 1960, Borg-Warner's T10, the optioning of a 4-speed would have meant a more complicated and troublesome column change so let's put them on the floor.

Along with that came the move to bucket seats as a 'luxury' and 'sporting' option.

Wouldn't that be close to the money, Doc?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-10 5:47 PM (#177552 - in reply to #177546)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
That's how I read it.

But it would be fun to read the meeting notes over at engineering in 1958 suggesting they give this some money to develop. Maybe the Ramchargers asking for a better shifter ?

I love to think of my 5400 lb. sports car as just that .... a sports car !

Half disassembled and in bare metal, it's still got more "sport" than most anything built today.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2009-06-10 5:56 PM (#177554 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
Far more sporting than a silicon chip...

Do you have to synchronise carbies?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2009-06-10 6:24 PM (#177562 - in reply to #177554)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Well, if we think about this protocol (floor shifts)....Chrysler was pretty-well locked into family bench seating throughout
the 50's; not much room to install a 'sporty' floor shift, in a family sedan.

Chrysler/Dodge didn't really support factory stock car racing, but allowed and somewhat assisted Kiekaefer in his efforts.

When K. got miffed @ B. France, around 1/57, both CHY & DOD's racing programs went bye bye.

Fast 'Forward' to 3-years' development program, and we see that CHY, et all, had been planning to exploit the small car and
sporty car fields, which obviously featured floor shifts.

Unfortunately, CHY did not really do anything to develop its own 3-4 speed (floor shift) trannies; when finally produced, their own 3-speed (forget its nomenclature; "Inland shifter") was called the Guess-a-Gear.

It took until late-ish 1963 to bring out a dependable rugged floor shift.

CHY did steadily improve its 3-speed manual trannie, throughout the 50's; one mag (forget which, now) even rather liked the
performance and the gearing of the 1958 Fury's trannie.

So, what's the point of all this....there was no real demand for floor-shifted Forwardlooking sedans, in the 50's, and, the Taxicab transmissions on hand were crap, performance-wise.

None of the other marques had any big-deal floor shifters, including Thunderturd and Cur-vette.

Give CHY credit for seeing that there would be a demand for manually shifted sporty (and small) cars in the early 60's.








Edited by d500neil 2009-06-10 6:29 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-10 9:38 PM (#177585 - in reply to #177562)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
I am giving them credit for building at least 3 floor shift DeSotos in 1960 with the little round white ball ! Just wish I could confirm this.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2009-06-10 11:30 PM (#177594 - in reply to #177585)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5118
5000100
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA
Doctor DeSoto - 2009-06-10 8:38 PM

I am giving them credit for building at least 3 floor shift DeSotos in 1960 with the little round white ball ! Just wish I could confirm this.
So how do you know for sure that those white shift knobs are factory correct? Back in those days, people commonly modified what they had to suit their taste. I was only half kidding when I said maybe it is from a Corvaire. The white shift knob looks so much better than the black ones and especiallt better than the di**head shaped ones!. Maybe it was a little custom touch you could buy from your local Western Auto knick-nack shop. I believe at the time, Corvettes was about the only floor shift American car and they had white knobs.
Or maybe not ...........................MO
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2009-06-11 12:02 AM (#177597 - in reply to #177594)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



500050005000500020001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
This car was SO unmolested. If it was dinked with, I would bet it was done there at the dealer, as it was ordered and owned by the dealer's son.

And this is half the reason I want to verify it .... it could have been an entirely built-at-the-dealer go fast machine, and not factory at all (?)

We are talking a STRIPPER Fireflite coupe. I have never seen one before or since that was so bare bones. All black, clear glass, it is the only finned DeSoto I ever handled that had dog dishies and body colored rims. It was the only one I ever saw with no holes for back up lights. It was manual brakes, steering, seats and windows, rubber floor mats, no radio, rubber steering wheel, ... you get the idea.
What it did have was a 383 with crossrams and this 3-speed floor shift and the big 12" brakes. It was pulled out of a holly bush where it had been nosed into for 20 years.
The thing that makes me think it was not made up after the fact was how correct all the little details were like the manual steering and column. Every detail looked OEM and never messed with to a degree that no one would have gone to in a conversion back then.

Not to say it could not have been done. Just that it was a thorough and very correct changeover of a lot of parts to rather unusual equipment that seems excessive to someone just trying to build a hotrod back in the day.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
De Soto Joe
Posted 2016-09-05 7:39 PM (#520584 - in reply to #177597)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Member

Posts: 8

Location: Seattle
Doctor DeSoto - 2009-06-10 9:02 PM

This car was SO unmolested. If it was dinked with, I would bet it was done there at the dealer, as it was ordered and owned by the dealer's son.

And this is half the reason I want to verify it .... it could have been an entirely built-at-the-dealer go fast machine, and not factory at all (?)

We are talking a STRIPPER Fireflite coupe. I have never seen one before or since that was so bare bones. All black, clear glass, it is the only finned DeSoto I ever handled that had dog dishies and body colored rims. It was the only one I ever saw with no holes for back up lights. It was manual brakes, steering, seats and windows, rubber floor mats, no radio, rubber steering wheel, ... you get the idea.
What it did have was a 383 with crossrams and this 3-speed floor shift and the big 12" brakes. It was pulled out of a holly bush where it had been nosed into for 20 years.
The thing that makes me think it was not made up after the fact was how correct all the little details were like the manual steering and column. Every detail looked OEM and never messed with to a degree that no one would have gone to in a conversion back then.

Not to say it could not have been done. Just that it was a thorough and very correct changeover of a lot of parts to rather unusual equipment that seems excessive to someone just trying to build a hotrod back in the day.





Doctor Desoto are you still in here? Did you find out about the shifter? Do you have any pictures?
I'd love you see your stick Desoto!

The first car I remember riding in was my Grandfather's 1961 Imperial, which later became dad's. Grandfather, a cheesemaker and banker, wanted a 300 but my Grandmother wanted a 4 door. He also liked the double grill of the 1961 Desoto, which he pointed out to me once in 1963 when we got ice-cream, just he and I, telling me they were all gone when he got to the dealer.

The Imperial became dad's car when Grandfather bought a 4dr. Belvedere in 1966, which became dad's in 1972 when the Imperial went to dad's mechanic and then off to Florida with a woman from dad's mechanic's church.

A 1961 floor shift manual everything 2dr. DeSoto is what I seek. Even if there wasn't one originally.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
GaryS
Posted 2016-09-05 10:04 PM (#520589 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1029
100025
Location: Ponder, TX
When I worked at a C-P dealership in 1964, we were told by the factory rep to never lose a sale because a part combination was not listed in the books. If possible they would build a special order for any customer and we took advantage of that program several times.

In '64, a New Yorker did not have an optional floor shift manual transmission, but I ordered one for an old farmer who didn't trust automatics. That year a manual floor shift was optional on the Newport, so it wasn't a big deal to slip one into a New Yorker. I just called the regional rep and a few days later he called back with the price and the order codes. That special order program was in effect earlier and maybe as early as '60-'61, so the mystery Desoto might have been part of that program.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
finsruskw
Posted 2016-09-06 8:06 AM (#520610 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 1868
10005001001001002525
Location: Eastern Iowa
Umm....Gary....
You do realize this thread is 7 years old??
Top of the page Bottom of the page
GaryS
Posted 2016-09-06 10:17 AM (#520625 - in reply to #520610)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1029
100025
Location: Ponder, TX
finsruskw - 2016-09-06 7:06 AM

Umm....Gary....
You do realize this thread is 7 years old??


Yes, I do. It was started seven years ago, but the last post was yesterday, and it was in response to him.

Sorry to have offended your need to control post etiquette.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
finsruskw
Posted 2016-09-07 10:01 AM (#520705 - in reply to #520625)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 1868
10005001001001002525
Location: Eastern Iowa
offended???
control???

none intended, good grief!!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Apollo 61
Posted 2018-10-02 3:02 PM (#571064 - in reply to #175457)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars



Veteran

Posts: 141
10025
B/G 61 - 2009-05-26 10:50 AM

Here are some pics from the Hot Rod mag Neil was talking about. Also, the 1961 Ram Chargers car was a Pioneer hard top. I have a video somewhere with it. (and more pics besides this one) I want to say the video is the Lyon's Drag Strip early years or something . . .
. I know tiis is a old thread. The 61 Plymouth I just picked up has the same shifter as the 61 dodge in this pic. It has the tall hurst shifter. The Plymouth was last registered in 1984. It has swivel seats that were supposedly not available? Fully loaded with options. It has the auto trans delete plate and a non shifter colum. However the original interior is red and the colum and aero wheel is black. My question is are all columns the same color as interior? I have seem 3 3 speed floor shift 4dr Newport 63s. Can anybody tell me if they had humps or tunnels in them? The story on the Plymouth is that the original owner was a Chrysler excutive in 61. Could he have Chrysler build it special?

Edited by Apollo 61 2018-10-02 3:14 PM




Attachments
----------------
Attachments image.jpeg (222KB - 33 downloads)
Attachments image.jpeg (232KB - 30 downloads)
Attachments image.jpeg (207KB - 31 downloads)
Attachments image.jpeg (189KB - 24 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Stroller
Posted 2018-10-12 12:53 PM (#571569 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars


Veteran

Posts: 115
100
Ok not a '61 but I have a '60 Fury 2dr Hard top. It was born with a 318 poly engine and push button. Spent most of it's life on a drag strip. It was ordered by a guy in '59 and took delivery in '60. He owned it for 6 months and traded it back to the dealer it came from because it was too fast for him. My father bought the car and raced it right off the road. No roll cage, no banners, nothing even driving it to the drag strips. In '68 he decided to put a big block in it with a 4 spd. Well the 440 used to set it up was hollow and the 4 spd was put in with a rear end to back it up, it still have the card board band around the left axle tube. A hole was cut for the shifter. I bought the car in '79 from his estate after he died. So with that after a few years, I was 15 I finally got a chance to make it drive again, with no money, no internet and no parts anywhere.

I got my hands on a '65 Fury with a 383 commando engine and very low miles, I had my engine then. Now the trany. The front bearing retainer snout was welded to the plate. So I went and found a Chrysler transmission, luckily. Had to have the outside of the retainer turned down to fit in the mounting, no welded snout. It is a side load. I was told the transmission was a Chrysler type 5 and yet another told me it is a muncie. The shifter is a Hurst with the cue ball type shifter knob.

The issue of changing gears was never addressed from '68-'79. So again, long time ago, trying to make car go vroom again I had to try to come up with a clutch and brake pedal set-up. I found a '61 Valiant with a 3spd and scavanged it's pedal assembly. So with no idea of what a factory set up looked like I franenstiened the Valiants to get it in and make it shift gears. Had a grade washer braised to the top of a grade 8 bolt to make the trowout bearing adjustments. When I fired it up for the 1st time in '86 to move under it's own power it a beast.

My neighbor owned a machine shop and told me "it's best to load it up here at home and let go, rather than some where else to see if it breaks". So I backed out of my driveway and into the street. Brought the rpm's up to around 4,500 and let the clutch go. Car launched and put gravel from the road up on the trunk below the rear window and dug 2 little trenches into the road, and it held together. Problem right away with the clutch. Could not get enough adjustment to back throw out bearing away from pressure plate.

Still have the car and still am looking for the correct clutch and brake pedal set-up. So if anyone might have a correct clutch and brake pedal assembly for a '60 Plymouth Fury I would love to hear from you. I found 1 and he wanted $400.00. I realize these parts are hard to find, but it seems to me nowadays people are wanting the customs powered options with auto trans. I just want a clutch set-up that doesn't ride on the pressure plate.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2018-10-12 4:30 PM (#571578 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
The 4-speed should have been an A833. That was standard Chrysler issue from 1964 on into the seventies, the correct one for a 440 might have had a larger spline on the input shaft and therefore a larger diameter snout on the bearing retainer.

What do you mean when you say, "...front bearing retainer welded to the plate."? Which 'plate' are you talking about?

Any chance of pics of the bits?

It's very likely that altering little things in the clutch arrangements will deliver the travel you need. Like moving the hole in the pedal downwards just a little.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Stroller
Posted 2018-10-13 10:11 AM (#571601 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: RE: 1961 floor shift cars


Veteran

Posts: 115
100
Hey there. Ok what I meant by the "bearing retianer being welded to the plate" is not exactly correct in retrospect. What I mean is the snout the throw out bearing slides on had I guess been broken off. With that that is what I mean welded to the plate, the bearing retainer and snout that bolt to the trans face. The retainer I found was if I recall closely the outer diameter was about 7" or so. I needed it turned down to around 4" or so. I could measure it to be exact, not the OE diameter that is. As to changing where the clutch rod mounted from it's pivot I tried but could not find a position to make it travel farther. I cut out a v notch in the clutch pedal and welded it back together and still could not get enough travel. A longer clutch rod would have worked great. With that I tried one out of a truck and still no luck.

I suppose someone with advanced knowledge in engineering could figure it out, but that isn't me. A freind of my dad told me he thought the transmission and rear end were for, if he recalled, a '69 charger. The rear end is posi and not the original. Some thing else it kinda of seems to me is the firewall should have been reinforced to handle a manual. The drive shaft had never been put in. When I did the front slip yoke hit the out put shaft. It is a 4' tube and again did not have the money to have a shop build me a drive shaft. So with a tape measure and crayon I marked and had it cut and rewelded, it had the needed travel then without binding.

Every since then my theory is if your taking an auto matic and making it a manual, have an exact parts car. In todays world I suppose it's different now. I suppose you could use a hydrauilc clutch or call sumit and see what they can come up with. But when it comes to hot rods I still say carb and mechanical linkage, true test. Also I can't get any picture I take to be at or below the 250 what ever limit, other wise I'd upload a pic of my trans and frankenfurtered brake and clutch set up.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Ray Bell
Posted 2018-10-13 5:06 PM (#571631 - in reply to #174001)
Subject: Re: 1961 floor shift cars



Expert

Posts: 2372
20001001001002525
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia
Put your pic up on your computer screen, click on 'prtsc' or 'print screen' whatever your computer keyboard has for that function together with 'control' at the same time.

This will result in a lower resolution version of your pic being on your clipboard, paste it to a picture viewer and save it.

Or e.mail the original to me and I'll reduce and post it for you. raybell@racingphoenix.com
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1 2
Now viewing page 2 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread



(Delete all cookies set by this site)