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Location: Chicago, IL | Hello all -
I'm new to this site due to a new purchase - a 1960 Plymouth Sport Wagon that needs some help. First thing I need to fix is the rear end which is making a horrible grinding noise.
The carrier assembly number is 1820657 - an 8-3/4", 1-3/8" small stem pinion setup. I'm not sure what gear ratio it is - I don't see any tag.
Any recommendations on where to find parts or even better - a complete replacement rear-end? If I replace it, I want to do so with something similar to what I have (nothing too fancy and expensive).
I have yet to pull it apart to find out exactly what needs replacing. It has a leak in the right wheel for sure. If I do go about taking it apart, does anyone know where I can get the necessary puller tools called out in the manual or have any suggestions on how to pull the axles out? I'm completely new to this.
Any info is appreciated -
thanks,
Kevin |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | Kevin, not really sure at this time as to what you will spend in parts and possibly labor to rebuild that rearend, but you might find it just might be cheaper to just replace that rear with a later model 8 3/4...Some say for the 2dr and 4drs, an E body rear bolts in. (Cuda, Challenger 1970-74)..I myself, am running one from a RoadRunner, but did have to move the spring perches outward about 1" per side..other than that, it bolted right in and didn't have to worry anymore bout those troublesome tapered rear drums......
Edited by dukeboy 2009-05-28 12:43 AM
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Location: Chicago, IL | Thanks for the suggestion dukeboy - I would like to get something that's easier to work on (i.e. no pressed assemblies).
What should I be looking for in a replacement? Is it mainly that the flange to flange width matches?
I assume it's fairly easy to re-weld the perches?
There are two currently on ebay, any idea if these would do the trick?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20034...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=30031... |
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Expert
Posts: 3034
Location: N.W. Fla. | 60sportwagon - 2009-05-28 7:38 AM
Thanks for the suggestion dukeboy - I would like to get something that's easier to work on (i.e. no pressed assemblies ).
What should I be looking for in a replacement? Is it mainly that the flange to flange width matches?
I assume it's fairly easy to re-weld the perches?
There are two currently on ebay, any idea if these would do the trick?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20034...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=30031... Big money on those 2. What engine you running? If /6 or 318 you can pick up an 81/4 for probably 100$. If a 361 an 83/4 shouldn't be much more than 200$ for something not out of a collector car. brain fade here...if you have to modify drive shaft for the newer axle a 8" or 9" from a 71-3 Mustang/Cougar would fit with relocated perches. Duster & Diplomat is supposed to work, 68 C body also. Edited by Mopar1 2009-05-28 10:56 AM
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Location: Chicago, IL | Yeah, those looked pretty pricey. I have a 318. I'll try an look around for something cheaper, thanks. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | Yes, You COULD go with like an 8 1/4 rear out of like a Diplomat or Fury From the mid to late 80's...That rear will hold up just fine to your 318..Usually, you can pick up the NON-POSI 8 3/4 from a RoadRunner Or Charger Fairly cheap..I've seen them at Carlisle for around $150.00 with open chunk...That rear up top there is high cause it's a SURE GRIP (Posi-traction)....
Edited by dukeboy 2009-05-28 12:35 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3396
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | I would suggest verifying the source of the noise first, it may be an axle bearing, no? Also regarding the diff., noises usually are the pinion bearing, unless the rear was run with no oil, the bearings can be done by any competent mechanic. |
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Posts: 3777
Location: NorCal |
I agree with Shep, if the right rear wheel has a leak it might because the wheel bearing has failed. A lot easier and cheaper to fix than a rear end swap.
Many rental yards will rent the drum puller needed to gain access to the wheel bearing. |
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Location: Chicago, IL | Thanks for the suggestions - thought I'd update you guys on the situation in case you are interested, or just bored 
Being that I am not an auto mechanic by trade and my repair manual is very light on the details, I had no idea how to remove the hub/drum assembly. I have since found some good websites and even a youtube clip explaining the process, but at the time thought it would be better just to take it to the "pros" at Midas. Apparently, they also had no clue when it comes to the Plymouth tapered assembly as you can see in the first picture below. And, no, that is not my artwork on the inside of the drum - that must have been added by the feeble-minded mechanic who destroyed them.
I have since pulled the entire axle out of the housing and it does sound like it's the wheel bearings who are the culprit - although to my eye they don't appear to show any visible damage. I pulled the gear chunk out and it seems to turn freely and shows no sign of damage, so I'm guessing it's OK. You wouldn't believe the "sludge" that was congealed at the bottom of the axle housing - this thing must have been sitting for some time.
My problem now is that I can't for the life of me get the hub separated from the axle. I pretty much destroyed the hub puller I rented from my local auto parts store. So, I have ordered a puller which I hope will be a bit beefier - http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID... . I have also heard that heating the hub may help - any suggestions on how or where to heat it would be appreciated.
But, even if I get the hubs out, one of the axles is damaged at the tip (last pic) - it looks like about a 1/2 inch of the end is missing - the area where the hole for the cotter pin goes. Instead of using a cotter pin, the previous owner put some sort of rubbery substance on the end of the shaft to supposedly hold the nut in place. Guess it didn't matter as tight as the hub was on, but I don't want to put it back together without getting the axle replaced.
So, bottom line is I have a line on an E body 8 3/4 rear end about 4 hours from me that I think I'll go get to replace what I have. Since I now would need new hubs/drums and an axle, it'll be cheaper and will be easier to work on in the future.
Kevin
 (TheMidasTouch.jpg)
 (DamagedAxle.jpg)
Attachments
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 TheMidasTouch.jpg (79KB - 161 downloads)
DamagedAxle.jpg (76KB - 148 downloads)
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Posts: 3396
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Yikes the "experts" at Midas did this!!!I have to ask what made you think Midas knew what thery were doing on your car?? It looks like they did not have the proper drum puller and destroyed the works, sue em I say. Heat and a heavy duty puller will get these off, Kanter has the drums and a good machine shop should be able to repair the threads. |
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Location: Ripon, WI | I am hoping Midas is paying for the new rearend.... The hubs are probably worth that... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Again, this is why I swapped mine out for a newer one that does Not require this level of BS to get the drums off.... |
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Location: Slidell La. | Welcome to the site , yes an Ebody rear will work .
I have a 59 Ply , and am using one . The spring saddles
are a quarter of an inch wider on each side and the springs
will move for you .
Best decision I ever made . Show Midas the cost of
replacing the damaged parts , by another shop of course , and
they should be happy to buy that rear end for you . Good luck .
Edited by narleycharlie 2009-06-16 4:38 PM
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Location: STL, MO | Will the early center section work with the E-body axles ie same 30 spline set-up? I am w/Chaney on this one, unless it's a 100 pointer I don't need all that foolishness. A modern 8 3/4 is a nobrainer for the majority of us, crappy brakes, skinny axles, hard to service, who needs it. |
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Posts: 3777
Location: NorCal |
A pre-'64 center section will only work with the E body axles if it's Sure-Grip, early rear ends used a narrower thrust block in the open differential so the later flange axle will be too short |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Bottom line is, if you swap out the to the later model rear, you can run all later model stuff including the center sections...I do know that a "741" 3.91 posi ('67 model) center WILL "Bolt-in" a 1957 8 3/4 housing, but like '57chizler said, the axles are different...Even had the same spline, but too short...
There is a two fold benefit to running the later rearend..Strength of every component is MUCH higher with the later model stuff...The early rears used Extremely small alxes and the centers usually used oddball gear ratios like 3.18:1....My own car had this gear set in it and I just ran the later model 3.23:1 and the speedo wasn't off that much at all....Plus, I don't know bout the other makes speedo's, but the '57-'58 Plymouth speedo's are adjustable so you can get it dead on with just about any gear ratio....
Edited by dukeboy 2009-06-17 9:43 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | I bought a 70 B-Cuda rear brake to brake for 50 bucks last month w/ no centersection but every thing else and was hoping I could use the 58 one until a 489 came along. Oh well thanks anyway. |
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Rear-End replacement - 60 Plymouth wagon
