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Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-27 10:02 PM (#175705)
Subject: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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So I got restless and decided to finally get to replacing the steering shaft rubber insolator. Of course I don't have my FSM with me and didn't bother to go get it. It seems like an easy enough swap. Remove steering column, replace rubber piece, reinstall.

Well I have the wheel off, the upper electronics (turn signals) undone, the lower clamp is off, the rubber pieces are out of the way. For whatever reason I can't get the steering column out. I've been told there is a pin that needs to be removed but where is it and how do you get to it? I see a small slot at the bottom of the column. Is that where you knock the pin out from? Mine appears to have the gasket stuck in there.

Please help with any advice you have.

Edited by Fanbladeus 2009-05-27 10:03 PM




(Img_1504.jpg)



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Attachments Img_1504.jpg (55KB - 678 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2009-05-28 7:34 AM (#175749 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: RE: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Fanbladeus - 2009-05-27 10:02 PM

Of course I don't have my FSM with me and didn't bother to go get it.







there is a snap ring located near/above the steering shaft ball bearing. you should be able to see it if you removed the turn signal mechanism/base. you have to remove it in order to pull the column. the pin holds just the steering shaft and you can remove it after you pulled the column.

Edited by 1960fury 2009-05-28 7:40 AM
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-28 10:13 AM (#175759 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Excellent info! I must have forgotten that step. I'll check it on my lunch break.
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Shep
Posted 2009-05-28 12:41 PM (#175776 - in reply to #175759)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Hence using the shop manual!
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-28 1:45 PM (#175785 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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I'll look closer when I get home, but on my lunch break I looked and did not find a snap ring. I stopped over and got my FSM to look this up. It makes no mention of a snap ring but it does say something about loosening two bolts that connect the jacket to the steering housing and then removing the pin after sliding up the jacket. I can't seem to find these bolts. Right now the jacket seems loose as I can spin the jacket somewhat freely.

I'll dig into this more tonight to see what is holding it up.

Note this is on a '58 Windsor with power steering.


Edited by Fanbladeus 2009-05-28 1:46 PM
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big m
Posted 2009-05-28 9:04 PM (#175843 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Seems to me that once the mast jacket has been loosened from the dash, there is a roll pin just in front of the firewall that you will need to knock out, this will separate the steering stub shaft from the steering gear assembly. ---John
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-28 10:58 PM (#175855 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Thanks guys. I just got the jacket off. I found the snap ring that you were talking about. The opening for the C of the snap ring was so big that the entire up side (part I could see) was missing. After examining the bearing washers I could tell there was play there but couldn't see what was keeping it from coming loose. After giving it a spin, I saw the thin snap ring. Once I popped that off we were off to the races. I see the pin at the bottom on the steering shaft. The rubber insolator looks rather worn and there are splinters of rubber sticking out so I hope replacing it will take the play out of the wheel. I'll get to that probably this weekend.

One snag, that gasket that I took a picture of up above.... I damaged it when removing the jacket. Who is a source for new ones? What is it called?
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2009-05-29 12:28 AM (#175870 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: RE: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?


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I think Gary Goers has the parts you need...................MO
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wizard
Posted 2009-05-29 1:46 AM (#175873 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Joey, Gary Goers have them, Item # 24 Steering Shaft Insulator A ('55-'57) B ('58 -'64)
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-29 8:47 AM (#175898 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Thankks, I have a new insolator from Goers. I need the wide gasket that sits on the top of the steering box. I'll get a pic later today.
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FURY
Posted 2009-05-29 8:44 PM (#175996 - in reply to #175898)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Have a look at the attached picture. Is it the round rubber piece you are referring to, sitting just below the steering shaft in the photo? If so, I have a spare I could part with. I actually have 2 of these, because I couldn't figure out where it went. I thought it would have gone on the top of the steering box before the jacket went on, but even without this rubber piece on, the jacket is a tight fit on the top of the box. With the rubber piece on, it was impossible to slide the jacket over it. I would be very keen to know what you have going on there. Why is that area so caked in old grease in your picture...? Where has that all come from...?
Glenn.




(Steering components #2.jpg)



(Steering jacket,box,clamp.jpg)



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Attachments Steering components #2.jpg (121KB - 683 downloads)
Attachments Steering jacket,box,clamp.jpg (57KB - 703 downloads)
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-29 8:58 PM (#175998 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Yes that is the rubber piece. I glued it back together using gorilla glue but I'm not sure if it will work. I imagine the clamp could squeeze the jacket enough to pick up the slack of the rubber seal.

I don't know what the deal is with that grease. At first I thought the source was the geerbox but that doesn't seem to make sense. Maybe its just oil that has been oozing from the valve covers for the last 50 years. I'm going to clean it up before reassembly.
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-31 6:46 PM (#176243 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Alright, I've been looking through the archives and haven't found anything yet. What is the trick to getting the pin out that holds the steering shaft to the box. It looks like a roll pin that I should be able to just knock out right?
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FURY
Posted 2009-05-31 7:11 PM (#176248 - in reply to #176243)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Yep it should knock right out. The trick is getting a punch/drift that fits the O/D of the pin properly. If you get one that is too small and goes inside the pin, it will only try and expand the pin before it moves out.
Glenn.



(Steering insulator2-25%.jpg)



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Attachments Steering insulator2-25%.jpg (195KB - 647 downloads)
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-05-31 10:53 PM (#176279 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Thanks, I'll have to search for that perfect punch. All mine are too big or too small. I tried using a properly sized hardened bolt, but that didn't seem to do it. I'll have to run over to my Dad's and borrow his punches and find one that fits. Thanks
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wizard
Posted 2009-06-01 4:21 PM (#176368 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Thank you Joey for opening up this thread, thanks to you and the guys here, I made my change in just 4 hours including rust removal and some paintwork!
This is the greatest car forum in the world with the best members.
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-06-13 6:43 PM (#177919 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: RE: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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I finally got around to getting the right size punch to drive the pin out. With the right tool it took about 2 minutes to get it out. The rubber insolator was pretty narley. I'm not quite sure how the copper piece is supposed to fit with the pin in the way. I may just bend it like I see in the pic above. Any thoughts?

I also took a pic of the snap ring so others will know where to find it.



(SteeringShaftOut.jpg)



(RubberInsolator.jpg)



(Snap.jpg)



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Attachments SteeringShaftOut.jpg (67KB - 645 downloads)
Attachments RubberInsolator.jpg (62KB - 644 downloads)
Attachments Snap.jpg (87KB - 665 downloads)
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-06-21 1:35 PM (#178789 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Went for a drive yesterday and man oh man what a difference. I really was thinking that I needed to get my steering box rebuilt. I really just needed a 7 dollar part and some time to install it.
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Fanbladeus
Posted 2009-06-25 7:37 PM (#179376 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: RE: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Here are some more pics by popular demand...



(SteeringBox.jpg)



(RubberPiece.jpg)



(RubberPieceInstalled.jpg)



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Attachments SteeringBox.jpg (59KB - 627 downloads)
Attachments RubberPiece.jpg (57KB - 654 downloads)
Attachments RubberPieceInstalled.jpg (63KB - 628 downloads)
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shelby_nut
Posted 2010-12-27 6:56 PM (#254731 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: RE: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?


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Hi,

I'm doing this fix and got the parts from Goers, but when I took it all apart there was a cotter pin where the roll pin should be.

I'd like to put it back together with the proper roll pin, anyone know the dimensions of the pin?

Thanks!

Jay


Edited by shelby_nut 2010-12-27 7:02 PM
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Shep
Posted 2010-12-27 7:24 PM (#254732 - in reply to #254731)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Use inside calipers to measure the hole and match it up at a parts store. Or use drill bits.
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dukeboy
Posted 2010-12-27 8:31 PM (#254742 - in reply to #254732)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Now, How does one go about gettin' the steering shaft out of a MANUAL steering box? Say on a 1957-58 Plymouth? All of the ones I ever see pictured just have the body off with the steering shaft left in the box.....Just curious, as my box was empty when I went to fill it up, the inside seal where the horn wire runs leaked and was wondering how the hell it came out...

Edited by dukeboy 2010-12-27 8:32 PM
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59 in Calif
Posted 2010-12-28 9:57 AM (#254801 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?


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Guys, Thanks, I was looking for this info also, but just hadn't got that far yet. Ya, I got the book, but hadn't taken the time to look there either. Jerry
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finsruskw
Posted 2010-12-28 11:25 AM (#254806 - in reply to #254801)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?


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The long shaft, the one that the steering wheel is attatched to, has to come out from the bottom.
You need to have the whole thing out of the car and clamped by the housing in a vise so the column lays flat.
Then start the dis-assly.

I tried to copy and post pages out of my 56 dodge manual but couldn't
get it to lay flat enough to copy w/o wrecking the spine.

I can lay out the 8 step procedure if anyone in interested.

Dave S.
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big m
Posted 2010-12-29 8:31 PM (#254986 - in reply to #254742)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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dukeboy - 2010-12-27 5:31 PM

Now, How does one go about gettin' the steering shaft out of a MANUAL steering box? Say on a 1957-58 Plymouth? All of the ones I ever see pictured just have the body off with the steering shaft left in the box.....Just curious, as my box was empty when I went to fill it up, the inside seal where the horn wire runs leaked and was wondering how the hell it came out...


Chaney,

On the manual boxes, the steering shaft has the worm gear connected to it, and it is not removable. If you are needing to replace the box, removal through the inside of the car is the easiest way, as long as your car has the factory access panel in the floor. The box can then be disassembled and overhauled while on the bench.

---John
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Chrome58
Posted 2013-01-04 11:00 AM (#353867 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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I'm digging this old thread to have some info about that rubber insulator between the steering box and the column.
My old '58 steering box did not need one, as the column was a tight fit over the steering box.

However, I bought a rebuilt '60s steering box (probably a '62), identical to mine, except for the fact that the OD of the tube on the steering box is smaller (58,0mm instead of 63,5mm on the '58 box).
So I'm guessing I need that steering tube insulator after all (sold by Gary Goers - #485), but I want to be sure it's the case.
Because if that insulator is not the solution, then I have a big problem ...

Can someone give me the thickness of that rubber insulator ?

Thanks.

Edited by Chrome58 2013-01-04 11:01 AM
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GregCon
Posted 2013-01-04 11:34 AM (#353874 - in reply to #353867)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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My 58 uses the insulator between the column tube and the steering box. It is around 1/8" thick. I don't believe science or mathematics have figured out a way to convert inches to millimeters so you'll have to guess at the equivalent. I'll try to measure it later today if I can reach it.
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Chrome58
Posted 2013-01-04 1:13 PM (#353895 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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1/8" thick is 3.17mm

It should be OK then, as I am missing about 5.5mm on the OD.
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GregCon
Posted 2013-01-04 5:26 PM (#353932 - in reply to #353895)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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I tried to measure mine but it is generally inaccessible once installed.
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Shep
Posted 2013-01-04 7:46 PM (#353957 - in reply to #353932)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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No big deal, 1 mm is .039 inches.
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Richbo
Posted 2013-06-23 10:47 PM (#382563 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?


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I shutter to think how many steering boxes have been needlessly rebuilt due to that worn little piece of rubber that cost only a few bucks !!!
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imp610
Posted 2013-06-25 3:05 PM (#382848 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Exactly, I just did mine out of nylon, I ordered one of rubber for nearly four years ago, got tired of waiting, check pics;




(CIMG9930a.jpg)



(CIMG9932a.jpg)



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Attachments CIMG9930a.jpg (112KB - 565 downloads)
Attachments CIMG9932a.jpg (116KB - 584 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2013-06-25 3:21 PM (#382850 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Also, as Sid informs, the nylon one will get you a better "firm" feeling
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imp610
Posted 2013-06-25 3:31 PM (#382852 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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That`s the thing what I`m looking for too, doing the desicion to go for a nylon one instead of rubber. And for the fun of doing it myself ! :-D
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VAN HELSING
Posted 2013-11-11 9:43 PM (#410056 - in reply to #382852)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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......

...


Just bumping this up a bit to save me continuing to dig down for it as I'm either going to buy one of Gary's rubbers or make my own out of nylon......... or buy one of Gary's as a template and have a local firm cast me one out of polyurethane...




...........
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wizard
Posted 2013-11-12 1:37 AM (#410073 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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If you will have a local firm cast the insulator out of polyurethane, I really think you could sell some...
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VAN HELSING
Posted 2013-11-12 2:52 AM (#410079 - in reply to #410073)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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.......

.....

I do know a suspension company here that did a batch of shortened polyurethane bump rubbers for another model car I own that was lowered and they did a custom job on these bump rubbers for me in a very pretty purple color ( I didn't want them in purple but it was the leftover from a production run of other poly rubbers they were making at the same time
so just had to take that color ).

I'll ring them tomorrow to discuss a run of these in poly if there is any interest, along with the possibility of the body to frame rubbers discussed in another post of mine.


......

...

Edited by VAN HELSING 2013-11-12 2:54 AM
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samdjr74
Posted 2015-08-14 10:48 AM (#487122 - in reply to #353895)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?


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Hi all,

I know this is an old thread but it really has a lot of great detail in it. The SM doesn't show you exactly how things like the shaft and box go together, thanks to the pics here I know what I'm up against when I replace my old leaking steering gear and rubber coupler.

Thanks,
Sam
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soiouz
Posted 2016-08-15 8:12 AM (#519063 - in reply to #410079)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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VAN HELSING - 2013-11-12 2:52 AM

.......

.....

I do know a suspension company here that did a batch of shortened polyurethane bump rubbers for another model car I own that was lowered and they did a custom job on these bump rubbers for me in a very pretty purple color ( I didn't want them in purple but it was the leftover from a production run of other poly rubbers they were making at the same time
so just had to take that color ).

I'll ring them tomorrow to discuss a run of these in poly if there is any interest, along with the possibility of the body to frame rubbers discussed in another post of mine.


......

...



I know this is pretty old, but was wondering if anyone ever did make nylon repros of this little bugger of a part? I know I would be interested in buying one!
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mikes2nd
Posted 2016-08-15 10:06 AM (#519071 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?


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I think you could take some time and make one pretty easy with a dremel. don't buy it off ebay fmrmpr marks up the 10$ one from Garys and sells it for 50$...

I will make mine with a dremel out of nylon.
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soiouz
Posted 2016-08-15 10:20 AM (#519072 - in reply to #519071)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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mikes2nd - 2016-08-15 10:06 AM

I think you could take some time and make one pretty easy with a dremel. don't buy it off ebay fmrmpr marks up the 10$ one from Garys and sells it for 50$...

I will make mine with a dremel out of nylon.




Looking more closely at an old one I got here, I think you're right and I will at least try my luck at making one first.
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VAN HELSING
Posted 2016-09-07 4:26 AM (#520686 - in reply to #519063)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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soiouz - 2016-08-16 12:12 AM

VAN HELSING - 2013-11-12 2:52 AM

.......

.....

I do know a suspension company here that did a batch of shortened polyurethane bump rubbers for another model car I own that was lowered and they did a custom job on these bump rubbers for me in a very pretty purple color ( I didn't want them in purple but it was the leftover from a production run of other poly rubbers they were making at the same time
so just had to take that color ).

I'll ring them tomorrow to discuss a run of these in poly if there is any interest, along with the possibility of the body to frame rubbers discussed in another post of mine.


......



...



I know this is pretty old, but was wondering if anyone ever did make nylon repros of this little bugger of a part? I know I would be interested in buying one!






........


Sorry, never got back to this post, called the company, they didn't sound too interested in making these for a small market and if they would do it, they required a minimum order ( can't remember exact amount but it was a lot ). There didn't seem to be a lot of interest on here at the time either so I shelved that idea.

I got to a point of doing it myself, bought a vacuum pot, have access to a friends vacuum/evacuator to help remove trapped air bubbles in the casting and was up to the point of buying silicon for making a mold but that's about how far I got with it.

Was looking at a firm but still pliable type polyurethane and had one lined up. It would have been like a hard rubber but with some pliability aspects that would hopefully have done a more durable job.

Was going to have a go at doing some near impossible to find lenses as well, but never got past the vacuum pot stage on that either, too busy with work at the moment.

Maybe later ?

........
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matte
Posted 2016-09-12 6:36 AM (#521044 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Is a 58 Desoto steering shaft insulator the same as a 58 Plymouth steering shaft insulator? Gary Goers and one on eBay lists them as the same but Andy Bernbaum list them as different part numbers..


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soiouz
Posted 2016-09-12 1:08 PM (#521074 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: RE: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Hmm, that's strange. The small insulator itself should be the same.

In fact, I just replaced mine, and the one I used was one in perfect condition out of a 1958 Chrysler steering column and gearbox assembly I had here, and it fit perfectly.


Check out the shape of the one that was in my car... no wonder the steering wheel had "some" play in it!!




Edited by soiouz 2016-09-12 1:12 PM




(14193638_10153828734951938_1620151828_n.jpg)



(14159247_10153828735026938_1501562093_n.jpg)



(14182213_10153828735431938_12954893_n.jpg)



(14101995_10153828735551938_418904261_n.jpg)



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Attachments 14193638_10153828734951938_1620151828_n.jpg (67KB - 517 downloads)
Attachments 14159247_10153828735026938_1501562093_n.jpg (98KB - 468 downloads)
Attachments 14182213_10153828735431938_12954893_n.jpg (111KB - 474 downloads)
Attachments 14101995_10153828735551938_418904261_n.jpg (86KB - 467 downloads)
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matte
Posted 2016-09-13 6:25 AM (#521125 - in reply to #521074)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



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Thanks for uploading the photos and the info about the Chrysler insulator.. Got me out of a pickle.

Where did you get your seat covers and door trim from??



Edited by matte 2016-09-13 6:27 AM
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soiouz
Posted 2016-09-13 6:36 AM (#521126 - in reply to #521125)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



Expert

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Location: Montreal, Canada
matte - 2016-09-13 6:25 AM

Thanks for uploading the photos and the info about the Chrysler insulator.. Got me out of a pickle.

Where did you get your seat covers and door trim from??




The interior is an old Mopar Mel kit.
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matte
Posted 2016-09-14 4:20 AM (#521221 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: RE: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



Elite Veteran

Posts: 977
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Oh well it was a gamble that didn't pay off but I wanted it fast instead of waiting for overseas freight........ The one that I got is way too short and the hole for the pin isn't in the middle. I'm going to order through Andy Bernbaum S-141 so I hope it's the correct one. I need the one that "Soiouz" posted just above.

http://www.oldmoparts.com/parts-steering.aspx

The photo below is the same style I took a punt on but is wrong.



Edited by matte 2016-09-14 4:22 AM




(s-l500.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments s-l500.jpg (7KB - 492 downloads)
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-18 11:35 PM (#570360 - in reply to #353895)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



Veteran

Posts: 267
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Location: Sydney
Hi guys
Sorry for digging up an old thread but need a little help please.

A few question about replacing the insulator above....

Are these the correct ones to suit my 60 New Yorker?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1958-1964-Plymouth-Chrysler-DeSoto-Dodge...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1957-64-MoPar-STEERING-INSULATOR-Plymout...

Is the procedure the same as above for the New Yorker where its accessible from the interior without disturbing the steering box?

Can I remove the column without disturbing or removing the instruments?

I do have a Mopar FSM but the entire section is very ambiguous and does not describe the actual replacement.
Actually the entire manual is not very good!

Thanks for any help
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wizard
Posted 2018-09-19 12:32 AM (#570364 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
Marc, yes it's pretty much the same, the AstraDome will not need to be removed, but the botton cover must be removed.

Important;

- Remove the cancel switch from the steering column (very fragile, handle with care (I can fix broken ones))
- Remove the horn ring and steering wheel
- Remove the steering column upper bezel
- Remove the steering column


Now check if there is a cotter pin that holds the steering shaft to the steering gear coupling - if so, remove and get a new one.

If there is a rolled steel pin, use a heavy sledge as counter sledge while you drive out the pin (steering gear doesn't like heavy side blows to the coupling)

Replace rolled pin with a sturdy cotter pin

The insulator in your links will work, or you make your own.

Steering wheel renovation available in Sweden
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1coolbanana
Posted 2018-09-19 2:03 AM (#570369 - in reply to #175705)
Subject: Re: Steering Column Removal - What's Wrong?



Veteran

Posts: 267
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Location: Sydney
Thanks very much for the info, much appreciated and I will apologise in advance for any forthcoming silly questions :-)
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