The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible
Jump to page : < ... 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 >
Now viewing page 22 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> Members RidesMessage format
 
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-19 11:10 AM (#465210 - in reply to #465125)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

earleebob - 2014-12-18 10:52 PM Hi Raffe did you end up making the clock housing of did you end up finding one? Bob
i have build ...  if someone need this housing i can build ...

Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-19 3:47 PM (#465231 - in reply to #465210)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

 


ge.jpg]


Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-21 3:42 AM (#465385 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

Thats incredible condition of the original Driveshaft .. i have only cleaned ... u joint look like new , boot look like new .. no play on the joints .. no rust ....was covered in mud .. which has protected the metal .. what if I'm not mistaken is not to be painted ... I read on handbook, by the looks of this car has traveled very low miles .. even the axle and transmission  was in the same condition, perhaps Lee Exline can confirm the car have very low miles 

 

 

free image hosting

 

image hosting

 

image share



Edited by raffaplymouth 2014-12-21 4:00 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2014-12-21 4:12 AM (#465386 - in reply to #465385)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
WOW.......that's a brand-new driveline, there!

Years ago, stripped/polished/clear-coated my car's OEM driveline, but there was non-repairable pitting to its finish, thanks to
Indiana (winter-) service life.

The OEM-NEW driveline is supposed to appear in new-shiny (un-preserved) condition, but we won't 'tell' about how to preserve that appearance!





Edited by d500neil 2014-12-21 4:14 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
di_ch_NY56
Posted 2014-12-21 5:37 AM (#465388 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: RE: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1423
1000100100100100
Location: ZH, Switzerland

Wow your drive line looks so wonderful like just out of the factory. What about a coat of clear color (transparent)?

The drive line in my 1956 Chrysler New Yorker had severe pitting from the surface rust. There was no other option than to color it iron grey. I used silicone oil to massage the boot at the b/t. Now it looks as new again.

 

Happy Motoring

 

Dieter

Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-21 7:29 AM (#465398 - in reply to #465386)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

d500neil - 2014-12-21 10:12 AM WOW.......that's a brand-new driveline, there! Years ago, stripped/polished/clear-coated my car's OEM driveline, but there was non-repairable pitting to its finish, thanks to Indiana (winter-) service life. The OEM-NEW driveline is supposed to appear in new-shiny (un-preserved) condition, but we won't 'tell' about how to preserve that appearance!
yes ... Clear paint is a good idea .. But i think original was not painted ...  I think will spray silicone .. This will preserve ...!!

Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-21 7:31 AM (#465399 - in reply to #465388)
Subject: RE: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

di_ch_NY56 - 2014-12-21 11:37 AM

Wow your drive line looks so wonderful like just out of the factory. What about a coat of clear color (transparent)?

The drive line in my 1956 Chrysler New Yorker had severe pitting from the surface rust. There was no other option than to color it iron grey. I used silicone oil to massage the boot at the b/t. Now it looks as new again.

 

Happy Motoring

 

Dieter

yes i think is good .. Massage with silicone oil !

Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-21 7:36 AM (#465400 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

 

 

i Think this is the original master cyl .... No pitting inside ..

 

 

host immagini



Edited by raffaplymouth 2014-12-21 7:44 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-21 7:40 AM (#465402 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

parts cleaned 

 

host image



Edited by raffaplymouth 2014-12-21 7:42 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-21 7:58 AM (#465403 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

invia immagini
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2014-12-21 7:18 PM (#465478 - in reply to #465403)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Expert

Posts: 1912
1000500100100100100
Location: Ontario, Canada
Check the driveshaft carefully. You may find the part # and date stamped on it.
Greg



(image.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments image.jpg (124KB - 281 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d500neil
Posted 2014-12-21 8:36 PM (#465483 - in reply to #465478)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
The only (well, 1-maybe...) problem with applying an OIL to a driveline is dirt contamination/deposits, and, maybe, the need to re-apply
the ointment to the subject, in the future, when the surface-prep wears off.

Best to strip/polish, to the best shine-condition that you can get, and then clear-coat the CRAP out of it....and then, forget about any further maintenance of
its surface, other than a simple wipe-down with a mild solvent/cleaner product, (like Simple Green) before some future car show event.

From way-underneath the car, the drive line will look good, from your vantage point!

Edited by d500neil 2014-12-21 8:38 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
christine-lover
Posted 2014-12-21 8:53 PM (#465486 - in reply to #465483)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 2966
20005001001001001002525
Location: Sept. 1958
That driveshaft turned out very nice, looks mint! There is a product called Sharkhide, sharkhide.com. You can apply it over metal to protect it. Anybody ever try it?

Your Adventurer is coming along so well!!!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
'57ADV
Posted 2014-12-22 4:07 AM (#465503 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: RE: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Regular

Posts: 89
252525
Hi Raffaele, I noticed your post that said you could make a steering wheel clock retainer? If you can make one for me how much will it cost please?

Also, did you get my e mail about reproducing the Adventurer carpet - I am making some progress - waiting for more samples to arrive soon! Also, I noticed the discussion about preserving bare metal. Has anyone tried either Gibbs Oil or Rockit Oil? Both of these products claim to provide long term protection for bare metal and you can even paint over them so are not silicone based. I have used both products for seized nuts etc. and they are both excellent. The Rockit Oil claims to use "Nano Technology". I used it the other day to free off some very rusted bolts and it seemed to "disolve" the rust very quickly. Fantastic stuff. Both products are more expensive than WD40 but I would say both are MUCH better than WD40.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-28 8:16 AM (#466031 - in reply to #465503)
Subject: RE: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

 

 

tail light restoration , new chrome and lens polishing ....lens are original from the car 

 

 

 

host immagini

Top of the page Bottom of the page
The Adventurer
Posted 2014-12-29 4:16 PM (#466124 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: RE: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed

Posts: 1029
100025
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Great Job on the Tail Lights ! I want them for my car !!!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
FIN ME
Posted 2014-12-30 12:09 PM (#466205 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 2791
2000500100100252525
Location: USA - KY
raffaplymouth - 2014-12-19 11:10 AM

earleebob - 2014-12-18 10:52 PM Hi Raffe did you end up making the clock housing of did you end up finding one? Bob
i have build ... if someone need this housing i can build ...



I would like a steering wheel clock housing, Raffey. Could you make one for me too?


.




(photo q12.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments photo q12.JPG (156KB - 287 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-31 12:52 PM (#466316 - in reply to #466205)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

FIN ME - 2014-12-30 6:09 PM
raffaplymouth - 2014-12-19 11:10 AM

earleebob - 2014-12-18 10:52 PM Hi Raffe did you end up making the clock housing of did you end up finding one? Bob
i have build ... if someone need this housing i can build ...

I would like a steering wheel clock housing, Raffey. Could you make one for me too? .
yes !  i can ....  you can contact me in PM !

Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-31 12:56 PM (#466318 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
<p>Hubcaps need restoration</p><p> </p><p> free image upload</p>

Edited by raffaplymouth 2014-12-31 12:58 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
roadkillontheweb
Posted 2014-12-31 6:15 PM (#466347 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1356
10001001001002525
Location: Iowa USA
The mileage on the original 150MPH Adventurer speedometer should be correct.

It is coming along great, when I pulled it out of that field so many years ago it was my dream to see it restored, you are making that happen! So proud even if it isn't mine anymore.

It was the hubcaps that caused me to make the decision to sell the car. I found one NOS cap and it sold for $600. That is when I decided that the car would be too expensive for me to restore and I made the decision to sell. I had an Adventurer coupe for a parts car and stacks of NOS parts accumulated over years of searching but never the raw talent you have or the stack of cash needed to do the job.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2014-12-31 8:19 PM (#466356 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
<p>Yes Lee .. Is the original speedo ... Only cleaned and polished ... No rechrome ...and show around 70 k miles .. I think original miles of this car ... For the Hubcaps .. I have 5 hubcaps .. 3 in good condition ( need only Gold redone ) and two in bad condition ... One is good outside but the spring is broken and one is bad outside but spring is Good . Need remove the good spring and weldind on the good one hubcap... The golding in not perfect but good ... Im undecided if re-gold or not ... Is very difficult re-gold in Italy</p>

Edited by raffaplymouth 2014-12-31 8:20 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
christine-lover
Posted 2015-01-01 2:17 AM (#466374 - in reply to #465400)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 2966
20005001001001001002525
Location: Sept. 1958
raffaplymouth - 2014-12-21 7:36 AM

 

 

i Think this is the original master cyl .... No pitting inside ..

 

 

host immagini



Raffaelle, original master cylinders should have a 7 digit part number in them along bottom, also have a date code, and the bolt head will have the DPCD stamping.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-01-01 2:23 AM (#466375 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
Therefore is not original ... I dont see script
Top of the page Bottom of the page
FIN ME
Posted 2015-01-02 4:27 PM (#466500 - in reply to #466316)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 2791
2000500100100252525
Location: USA - KY
raffaplymouth - 2014-12-31 12:52 PM

FIN ME - 2014-12-30 6:09 PM
raffaplymouth - 2014-12-19 11:10 AM

earleebob - 2014-12-18 10:52 PM Hi Raffe did you end up making the clock housing of did you end up finding one? Bob
i have build ... if someone need this housing i can build ...

I would like a steering wheel clock housing, Raffey. Could you make one for me too? .
yes !  i can ....  you can contact me in PM !



Thank you, Raffie!

I sent you a PM.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
'57ADV
Posted 2015-01-07 12:41 PM (#466924 - in reply to #465210)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Regular

Posts: 89
252525
Hi Rafaele, I'm a bit new to this forum but i tried to post a message for you before and also to e mail you as I got you e mail address from Ed Petrus the technical adviser on '57 DeSotos. Three things to ask you:

I heard from Ed that you were looking for carpet for your beautiful Adventurer? I'm working on having some made and am gathering original samples and obtaining quotes to see what can be done. Are you interested?

I heard from Bob Hamilton at Earlee Products in Australia that you might be able to make me a retainer for my steering whee clock? Is that possible and what is the cost please?

Finally, as we are much nearer to each other than the USA and both have Adventurers, if you would like to come and stay with us to look over my one before I strip it for painting you would be welcome to stay. Mine is quite original I think so it might be useful for you?

Keep up the brilliant work on the convertible - amazing !!

Regards
Mark
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-01-07 1:04 PM (#466929 - in reply to #466924)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

'57ADV - 2015-01-07 6:41 PM Hi Rafaele, I'm a bit new to this forum but i tried to post a message for you before and also to e mail you as I got you e mail address from Ed Petrus the technical adviser on '57 DeSotos. Three things to ask you: I heard from Ed that you were looking for carpet for your beautiful Adventurer? I'm working on having some made and am gathering original samples and obtaining quotes to see what can be done. Are you interested? I heard from Bob Hamilton at Earlee Products in Australia that you might be able to make me a retainer for my steering whee clock? Is that possible and what is the cost please? Finally, as we are much nearer to each other than the USA and both have Adventurers, if you would like to come and stay with us to look over my one before I strip it for painting you would be welcome to stay. Mine is quite original I think so it might be useful for you? Keep up the brilliant work on the convertible - amazing !! Regards Mark :)
YES .. THANKS IM INTERESTED FOR THE CORRECT CARPET ... YES I CAN BUILD THE STEERING CLOCK RETAINER AND LOCK ...  YOU CAN CONTACT AT RAFFAPLYMOUTH@OLDAMERICARS.COM

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Lancer Mike
Posted 2015-01-09 2:22 PM (#467086 - in reply to #466929)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



5000200020001002525
Location: The Mile High City
Hi, Raffaele:

I sent you and e-mail about the steering clock retainer and lock. I would like to buy one too.

Thanks,
Mike

P.S. You have done great work on your Adventurer. I don't post much here, but I enjoy following the thread!

Edited by Lancer Mike 2015-01-09 2:24 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-06-14 1:34 PM (#481468 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
Hi guys !! Some news .. I have receveid all clothing for interior and door Panels !
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-06-14 1:44 PM (#481471 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

upload immagini
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-06-14 1:57 PM (#481473 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

url immagine
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imopar380
Posted 2015-09-29 4:26 PM (#490962 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7106
50002000100
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada
The link above doesn't work.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-09-30 3:38 AM (#491002 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy



Edited by raffaplymouth 2015-09-30 4:08 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-09-30 4:09 AM (#491005 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-09-30 5:29 AM (#491008 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-09-30 6:26 AM (#491010 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-09-30 8:17 AM (#491016 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
HI guys , restarted work since last week, I still have much to do .. soon I will have to 'rebuild the rear panels ... or know someone who sells 2 rear panels ??
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-07 1:23 AM (#491619 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

image share
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-07 1:24 AM (#491620 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
<p> upload immagini</p>
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-07 1:26 AM (#491621 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

host image
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-07 1:28 AM (#491622 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

upload
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-07 1:29 AM (#491623 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

New rebuild rear panels are OK



Edited by raffaplymouth 2015-10-07 1:30 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57desoto
Posted 2015-10-07 6:42 AM (#491632 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1446
100010010010010025
Location: New Castle PA
Raffaele, you are the greatest metal-worker on the planet!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-07 1:28 PM (#491655 - in reply to #491632)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

57desoto - 2015-10-07 12:42 PM Raffaele, you are the greatest metal-worker on the planet!

 

Thanks Edward! !! I Have a question. .. You know if The Heater  harness is inside or outsider  of The firewall? ??

 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
57burb
Posted 2015-10-07 6:46 PM (#491673 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: RE: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 3848
2000100050010010010025
Location: DFW, TX
Hi Raffaele, did you ever get any more information about carpet? Thank you!
Danny
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57desoto
Posted 2015-10-08 7:10 AM (#491716 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1446
100010010010010025
Location: New Castle PA
Raffaele, all of the wiring comes through the grommet near the steering column, if that's what you mean.



(epetrus_s26a_block_in_car.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments epetrus_s26a_block_in_car.jpg (173KB - 260 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-10 2:07 AM (#491869 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
Thanks Edward!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
toddst
Posted 2015-10-10 8:56 AM (#491881 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Elite Veteran

Posts: 726
50010010025
Location: Some Island called Prince Edward
Sadly most of the photos you posted at the beginning of this thread are no longer visible.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-10 12:30 PM (#491896 - in reply to #491881)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy

toddst - 2015-10-10 2:56 PM Sadly most of the photos you posted at the beginning of this thread are no longer visible.
I know this problem... And i dont know what to do... The First pictures was resized with  Imageshack. ..And lost after 4/5 years. .. The Last pictures with " postimage " .... But i dont know in the future ... I can remake all pictures with another resizer. .. or you Have idea?  As you do ????

Top of the page Bottom of the page
roadkillontheweb
Posted 2015-10-10 6:24 PM (#491919 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible



Expert

Posts: 1356
10001001001002525
Location: Iowa USA
Raffy
Have you been on Facebook today.
I found Marilyn's daughter on there/ She is waiting to hear from you.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
raffaplymouth
Posted 2015-10-18 7:31 AM (#492512 - in reply to #201733)
Subject: Re: 1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible


Elite Veteran

Posts: 734
50010010025
Location: Torino - Italy
hi Guys .. anyone know if i can fix the problem of link pictures ??
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : < ... 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 >
Now viewing page 22 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread



(Delete all cookies set by this site)