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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | I think this BELV ysed to be Lancer Mikes ... Looks like MLC ended up with it OR selling it for a Customer..
Located in Chisholm, MN, On US Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1958-Plymouth-Belvedere-UNRESTORED-U...
Description..
This is an “UNrestored” 1958 PLYMOUTH BELVEDERE 2 HARDTOP. This car has NEVER been Hit or Repainted, This car is 100% complete with 96046.4 miles! The inside is excellent. The Drive train is 100% matching, This car on a scale of 1-10 is a solid 8. This is a VERY RARE FIND. This car has VERY LITTLE RUST!!! (See pictures) The Interior even has the orignal clear plastic seat covers, with very little discoloring. This car Interior is Spot Less!! Everything is in working condition!! The 7 botton radio even works!! All the gauges work very well and the Clock, also works!! The headliner is in VERY nice contdition. Under the hood is all ORIGNAL, 318 (was a dual quad engine,owner installed the 4 barrel to save fuel. And we have the ORIGNAL Dual Carb’s and manfold for this car and it will go with the car when sold! Somethings like the gas lines and tank has been replaced by the look of it. The engine Runs VERY WELL, very smooth. No oil leaks have been found where the car sits. The transmission shiftes very well also. All the wiring is in great conition. All the chrome & trim on this car is a solid 8. NO pitting, Rust, very little dimples, here or there. This car has ORGINAL bumper wings Front & Back That Our In MINT condition. This car run & Drives like new! All the Glass, Rubber is in Great condition as well. This car has been in parked inside for a long time. You don’t find them like this. If you want an UNTOUCHED, UNRESTORED Car, then here it is. We have the last 9 to 10 years of paper work to go with this car. Build sheet is still on the upper back seat. Awhile ago, a 4 door Belevedere sold on here for about 19,000 afew months back. If you want to buy this car feel free to email or call us at 1.561.632.4193 We can have the car shipped anywhere you live, Oversea Client our welcome, just email before bidding. Thanks |
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | This WAS Lancer Mikes Car.. he sold it back in April 2008 to a Fellow Member here " Joe Caldwell- Christine's Revenge " in NY,,, Although Joe has Not logged in for a Year...
Here is the Original Thread from back then..
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19905&...
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Location: PL / EU | Beautiful car. I would buy it but ... |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | What a beautiful car!! I'm glad to see it was not converted to a Christine clone after all, as had been reported in another thread! I like the Christine clones myself, but this car is such a good original example, it deserves to stay as it is, IMO. |
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | That car should be keept as it is, with minor careful reparations - really an interesting car! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I love the trunk mat - Yea, my "vote" goes to restoring it the factory color - either way, looks like a great start for some one to do something to it  |
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Location: Connecticut | So are Memory Lane Classics (MLC) and Mopar Mel related ? Ron
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Location: Connecticut | So maybe Lancer Mike can chime in here. MLC claims that this was an original dual quad car. Yet I don't remember that from the original thread when Mike first put the car up for sale. Ron
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | ronbo97 - 2010-01-10 6:13 PM
So are Memory Lane Classics (MLC) and Mopar Mel related ? Ron
YES... But for All the Wrong Reasons....... LOL
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Edited by Rebels-59 Coronet 2010-01-10 1:32 PM
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | ronbo97 - 2010-01-10 6:20 PM
So maybe Lancer Mike can chime in here. MLC claims that this was an original dual quad car. Yet I don't remember that from the original thread when Mike first put the car up for sale. Ron
Ron,, I believe you may be Correct,, I just read the Original Description from the 2008 Thread and Mike does Not mention it,,
Also found another Thread from the Rocky Region from 2008
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19354&...
More Pic,s there Also
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Location: Connecticut | Also noticed that the engine is sprayed gold, which raises all sorts of red flags that something's been done to it, like adding the 4bbl. Also note the rubber fuel line. BTW, if this swap was done, it may have happened way before Lancer Mike owned the car.
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| And the problem with painting the engine gold and adding a 4 bbl with a rubber fuel line would be? God I get tired of you guys picking every car that shows up here apart!!! |
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Location: Connecticut | We're just helping out folks less knowledgeable than us make an informed decision. MLC states that the car started with dual quads, yet someone along the line swapped out the dual quads for a single 4bbl. Lancer Mike never mentioned that the car was an original dual quad car, leading me to believe that it possibly could have been an original 2bbl that had a 4bbl swapped in. I personally love the car and gold color, and would buy it in a second if I had some extra cash laying around. Ron
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| MLC also said that the interior is original, yet I had understood previously when it was for sale that the interior had been replaced, which matches how the pictures look. An original interior would never look as nice as that in over 50 years. Much of what MLC is saying about the car does not match what is previously known about the car from its' last time on the market
Edited by worldantique 2010-01-10 3:50 PM
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Location: Royal Oak, MI | ronbo97 - 2010-01-10 3:06 PM
We're just helping out folks less knowledgeable than us make an informed decision. MLC states that the car started with dual quads, yet someone along the line swapped out the dual quads for a single 4bbl. Lancer Mike never mentioned that the car was an original dual quad car, leading me to believe that it possibly could have been an original 2bbl that had a 4bbl swapped in. I personally love the car and gold color, and would buy it in a second if I had some extra cash laying around. Ron
I didn't think you could get a dual-quad 318 on a Belvedere in 1958. You could, of course, get the 318 with the single 4-barrel "Super-Pak," and the Golden Commando dual-quad 350 was offered across the board that year, but the 318 2X4 was supposed to be "Fury-only," I believe.
That said, who knows what was really allowed via special-order. And I suppose dual quads could have been added to a 318 Super-Pak at the dealer, too... |
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Location: Connecticut | Any non-standard option such as dual quads on a 58 Belv 318 would have to be documented.
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | I still wish i bought this Belv from Mike when i had the Chance,, I was Seriously interested But i had only imported the 59 Chrysler in Late 2007 after doing the Trip to Tulsa and after Paying all the Import and Tax fee,s Money was a little tight.. Should have Sold the Chrysler back then and Got the Belv.. I would have kept it AS IS after getting the Rust Sorted.
another case of IF ONLY..........
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Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | MLC added to the Description..
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On Jan-10-10 at 12:08:44 PST, seller added the following information:
Questions has been brought up, is this a real 318 dual carb setup. The way I can answer this is that they were left in the truck, DATE Coded correct (manifold and carbs) It was supposely change along time ago, to the 4 barrel setup. So we believe that this is,because of the way the shape of the car is right now.
If you want more pic's, please send email address and we will be more than happy to take care of your request.
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Location: Connecticut | Obfuscation at its finest. I have no doubt that it's a 'real 318 dual quad setup'. It just didn't come on this car. Ron
Edited by ronbo97 2010-01-10 8:34 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Thanks for posting this one, Clive. What a sight for sore eyes! Ron's earlier report really had me distressed - I am glad to learn that this one was not "restored" or made into a Christine! Really, it looks just about exactly the way it was when I sold it except for the fancy new battery.
That steering wheel is an upgrade from the original. I replaced the dash pad, the front butt rest was rebuilt and recovered, and I added the bumper wings. I hope the original steering wheel and horn ring stayed with the car! The entire time I owned the car, the engine was painted gold - I know that is not the original color, but I believe the engine is the original engine and the car came with the Power-Pak option, which included the four-barrel carburetor and dual exhaust pipes.
I never ordered the build sheet for the car and I wish I would have. It seems like it came from New Mexico or southern Colorado. The floors and trunk are very solid. Unfortunately, the rockers and fenders were marred by rust. The engine had some compression problems and used a lot of oil, but the car ran very well and I used it as a daily driver during the summer months. It was a pleasure to drive!
I was happy to sell it through this website, but I wonder what it might have fetched on eBay... I guess I will find out now. If anyone here ends up buying it, I am happy to share all I know about the car. |
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Location: Big pimpin' | I cannot believe none of ya'll picked up on that "7-button" radio that still works.....
Edited by dukeboy 2010-01-10 8:58 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Why is it that people cannot be thrilled enough with a car like this ? Why does it need all the extra BS attached to it ? Too many car guys have sh*t for brains. 
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Location: Big pimpin' | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-01-10 9:02 PM
Why is it that people cannot be thrilled enough with a car like this ? Why does it need all the extra BS attached to it ? Too many car guys have sh*t for brains.
Cause it needs a Big Block, dual fours, red interior, and painted red and white! |
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Location: The Mile High City | ronbo97 - 2010-01-10 6:32 PM
Obfuscation at its finest. I have no doubt that it's a 'real 318 dual quad setup'. It just didn't come on this car. Ron
It certainly never had dual fours when I owned it and I was not in possession of a dual quad set up for this car. Like I said, I never obtained build sheet from Chrysler. If perchance this was a dual quad car from the factory, it would be nothing short of a miracle to reunite it with it's original intake and carbs. I think that is an artful bit of sales hype for this lovely Plymouth. |
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Location: The Mile High City | dukeboy - 2010-01-10 6:57 PM
I cannot believe none of ya'll picked up on that "7-button" radio that still works.....
Good eye, Duke! I don't know why any one expects a used car salesman to do anything else but sell used cars by hook or by crook! |
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Location: Connecticut | The fuzzy cell phone pics in the auction seem to say, 'don't look too closely'.
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Location: DFW, TX | Sorry for the big picture, but I figured some of you guys would like this ad from the June '57 Motor Trend. I was looking for one I remember from a '58 or 59 magazine that mentioned specifically a dual-quad and cam setup for the B-engined cars, but didn't see it. I believe it was called the V800 setup and was to be installed at the dealership on a new car, or sold in the parts department for a used car.
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Location: Connecticut | Anyone could walk into a dealership and get the above items at the parts counter. The issue is that the car wasn't equipped with them when it left the factory. That's the definition of 'original'. Ron
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| Me thinks that is YOUR definition of original! |
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Location: Connecticut | carjock - 2010-01-11 6:04 AM Me thinks that is YOUR definition of original! So what's YOUR definition of original ???
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Location: Big pimpin' | What about "Dealer Installed"...Most consider THAT to be "factory" as well.... |
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| I really don't think that an absolute "definition" of original exists!! Remember, I lived through those years and spent plenty of time in dealerships watching the "activities" that went on in there. I can vividly remember customers saying "that is exactly the car I wany, except I want the larger engine, or the torqueflight transmission, or the lower body painted a different color, etc, and the dealer was more than happy to make those swaps for them. The cars were brand new, never privately owned or used, and the configuration in which it was delivered to the original owner is probably the closest to original as I can guess. Factory coding was not very accurate, often filled with errors, and to rely on that for a "pedigree" is naive. I just think you guys are trying to make "science" out of something that was a long way from it!! |
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Location: Connecticut | "Factory" means as delivered from the factory where it was manufactured. "Dealer Installed" means installed afterwards by the dealer. It stands to reason that build sheets or data plates may not always be 100% accurate. But they would be useless if they contained lots of errors. So I like to assume that they are mostly accurate. The 300 Club uses the build sheets (on microfilm) to determine accuracy of a restoration, which I agree with. Dealerships can and would make changes based on customers' requests. If you wanted your 59 Dodge painted pink with green stripes and had enough $$$ to pay for it, then they would do it, as profit was what dealerships were all about, not accuracy. So would you call a car painted in the above color scheme 'original' if that's how the dealership painted the car ? I wouldn't. That's why I defined 'original' as the way it came from the factory. Ron |
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Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | OK kiddies! I will clear this 318 2, 4 feces up!
ABSOULTY NO '58 PLymouth Savoy's, Plaza's or Beveders's, came out of the FACTORY with a 2, 4 318! The ONLY '58 Ply to have the 2, 4 318, was the '58 Fury! It was the standard motor for the '58 Fury.
The 350 GC motor was a FACTORY OPTION and AVAILABLE across the ENTIRE Plymouth line! ANY '58 Plymouth could be had with the 350 GC!
The carbs for the FURY 318 were WCFB's. The carbs for the GC and the rest of the '58 MoPar line (EXCEPT for the 300-D) were AFB's
In '57 the 2, 4 318 was an FACTORY OPTION in ALL '57 Plymouths, except for the FURY, which it was standard!
But, as Ronnie said, the dealer would do ANYthing you wanted! EX; Dr. Golden's 300-G He wanted his 300 painted gold! Period!
It came FACTORY, in primer. And Tag Gallion C-P painted the car GOLD!
So how would you explain that? It actually came FACTORY in primer, but the DEALER painted it gold. |
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| So, Ronbo, if I am reading what you are saying correctly, the car is original once it leaves the factory, but not after something on it is changed? What about tires? Oil and filter? Belts and hoses? Brakes? Worn interior pieces? Damaged body and paint? Any of these could happen within the first three months of the car's life. Is it then no longer original. Very shakey argument for "original"!! |
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Location: Connecticut | What about that little flake of undercoating that came off during shipping ?
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Location: The Mile High City | I talked to the new owner at Memory Lane - seems like a nice enough fella. He didn't mention his name though. He bought the car directly from Johnny Caldwell, who is the fella I sold it to - so it hasn't bounced around a bunch. I told him what I had done to the car and how I came to find it. He didn't seem particularly interested in any of that. He mentioned that he is expecting to get about $30,000 for the car - so the reserve may be quite high. If it does not meet the reserve, he said he would be content to hold on to the car and enjoy it for awhile.
The Corvette owners are the real sticklers for originality; I heard of a fella that used to brag about having the original air in the original tires on his 'vette! I don't even know how that is possible after a period of ten years - weather the car is driven or not! I have another friend who claimed that the windshield washer fluid (I think that's what it was) was the original fluid from the factory in his 1928 Plymouth by Chrysler!
With those type of things, someone can say it - but try to prove it or disprove it! And for such detailed items...in the end, who cares? Remember that original 1920's Buick that sold for a gazillion dollars a few years ago? Original or not, it was a piece of crap!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-01-11 7:35 PM
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Location: Connecticut | Lancer Mike - 2010-01-11 7:26 PM I told him what I had done to the car and how I came to find it. He didn't seem particularly interested in any of that. He mentioned that he is expecting to get about $30,000 for the car - so the reserve may be quite high. He's not interested in details that might contradict the puffery in his auction, such as claims that it's 'an UNTOUCHED, UNRESTORED Car' when you know differently. He's afraid of being liable for misrepresentation. Ron
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2010-01-12 4:26 PM
The Corvette owners are the real sticklers for originality; I heard of a fella that used to brag about having the original air in the original tires on his 'vette! I don't even know how that is possible after a period of ten years - weather the car is driven or not! I have another friend who claimed that the windshield washer fluid (I think that's what it was) was the original fluid from the factory in his 1928 Plymouth by Chrysler!
With those type of things, someone can say it - but try to prove it or disprove it! And for such detailed items...in the end, who cares?
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I have seen plenty of this snobbery with the 300 owners too.
It is all good and fine to KNOW what is original and KNOW all the variables of dealer install, etc. To know or discuss such details is great. It is only when this kind of information get to the Corvette level detailed here that the observant study will be able to spot a douchebag from a hundreds yards. I find those types to be contemptuous boobs, but hey, ... I love good comedy. Some people were just put here on this Earth to be laughed at !
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Location: Royal Oak, MI | Lancer Mike - 2010-01-11 7:26 PM
I talked to the new owner at Memory Lane... He mentioned that he is expecting to get about $30,000 for the car - so the reserve may be quite high. If it does not meet the reserve, he said he would be content to hold on to the car and enjoy it for awhile.!
$30,000? Is that realistic? It is a nice car, but that's... whew!
I was thinking it might go for $18,000, maybe even $20K. Hmmm... maybe I'm the one who's not realistic... |
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Location: Connecticut | Boris56 - 2010-01-11 9:50 PM $30,000? Is that realistic? It is a nice car, but that's... whew! I was thinking it might go for $18,000, maybe even $20K. Hmmm... maybe I'm the one who's not realistic... I think he's trying to make a quick buck. He's into it for about $20-22. IMHO, despite the nice seats, it's worth $12K tops. It's got rust out, folks ! Also, despite the claims of the seller, Lancer Mike said the engine had compression problems and used a lot of oil. Ron
Edited by ronbo97 2010-01-11 10:11 PM
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Location: Harrison, NY | Hello to Foward Look!!!!!! This is Joe from NY and YES I have purchased this Plymouth with the intentions of restoring it however the amount of work needed was beyond my wallet. So everyone here knows... I purchased this 58 from Lancer Mike a year and half ago. I had sold it to Memory Lane Classics who paid very good money and I explained to Edwin that "THIS CAR IS AN ORIGINAL 58 HOWEVER IT WAS BORN WITH A 318 4 BBL, NOT A DUAL QUAD SET UP LIKE IT SAYS IN THIS EBAY AD. I have received numerous phone calls asking me and although the 58 deserves a good home and the new owner should have no problem paying $20K or better! Please know I sold this car as what it is , a 318 V8 4BBL Torqfight. I would ask Mike Sutherland to please add a post as the last owner to agree that this car although nice original, NOT a Dual Quad Set UP and the dual quad being offered is for CLONE purposes only. I have just talked with Edwin at MLC and ask he edits his description to be correct and has agreed. I must say also that Lancer Mike(Mike Sutherland) although a nice guy failed to tell me the car had "Compression Problems" however it might have been he forgot by mistake I hope. PS I have been away Guys and Girls as I retired from the Highway Patrol in NY 9-11 Sick with breathing problems. Thanks to all and bid on this nice car. Joe (914)557-7575
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Location: The Mile High City | I think a proper way to describe my former car is that it still retains a lot of originality, especially compared to most other 1958 Plymouths available today. Although the front fender tops and the passenger side have rust-through, as Ron notes, the frame, trunk pan, floor pans, and a great deal of the driver's side panels are practically rust free.
What I always liked about the car is that nothing was hidden. To my knowledge there was no bondo, body damage, or any repainting done on this car. The engine was fairly reliable and didn't leak oil. The car had some blow-by, but did not smoke from the pipe when warm. Where all of that oil went, I don't know - but it liked to drink oil! As I did then, I would still not recommend that anyone buy this car without looking at it. Once you do look at it in person - it will not mislead you or decieve you.
Knowing what I know about the car, I would not hesitate to recommend that someone purchase it for $14,500 (that's what I sold it for) - perhaps even a bit more. This even after consideration of the financial meltdown we are going through - which had not yet happened when I sold the car.
If I were considering purchasing it back today, I would start to get very reluctant as the price passed the $20,000 mark with the thought that I could probably do better between $20,000 and $25,000 with a nicer Dodge, Chrysler, or DeSoto. North of $25,000, I would start to think that I could do better with nicer 1958 Plymouth Belvedere sport coupe! |
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Location: The Mile High City | Christine'sRevenge - 2010-01-11 8:52 PM
Hello to Foward Look!!!!!! This is Joe from NY and YES I have purchased this Plymouth with the intentions of restoring it however the amount of work needed was beyond my wallet. So everyone here knows... I purchased this 58 from Lancer Mike a year and half ago. I had sold it to Memory Lane Classics who paid very good money and I explained to Edwin that "THIS CAR IS AN ORIGINAL 58 HOWEVER IT WAS BORN WITH A 318 4 BBL, NOT A DUAL QUAD SET UP LIKE IT SAYS IN THIS EBAY AD. I have received numerous phone calls asking me and although the 58 deserves a good home and the new owner should have no problem paying $20K or better! Please know I sold this car as what it is , a 318 V8 4BBL Torqfight. I would ask Mike Sutherland to please add a post as the last owner to agree that this car although nice original, NOT a Dual Quad Set UP and the dual quad being offered is for CLONE purposes only. I have just talked with Edwin at MLC and ask he edits his description to be correct and has agreed. I must say also that Lancer Mike(Mike Sutherland) although a nice guy failed to tell me the car had "Compression Problems" however it might have been he forgot by mistake I hope. PS I have been away Guys and Girls as I retired from the Highway Patrol in NY 9-11 Sick with breathing problems. Thanks to all and bid on this nice car. Joe (914)557-7575
Hi, Joe - good to see you back! I am sorry to hear that I may have left anything out - I never intended to mislead anyone who was interested in this car about its condition. I thought I was as up-front as I could possibly be. I had heard from a mechanic that one of the cylinders had a lower compression (80% or 70%?). I thought the car ran well and drove well and I hope it did for you. I would think that any car with 90,000 + miles on it would have some sort of compression issues. Did you think the engine compression was a problem while you owned it?
No doubt it was not a dual four car - nor could it have been. |
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1958 Plymouth Belvedere "UNRESTORED" in MN
