The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> The Exhaust Pipe - Modification & PerformanceMessage format
 
jboymechanic
Posted 2010-10-05 2:49 PM (#244313)
Subject: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
I got into a discussion with another guy on this site and I thought I'd bring it to where it belongs, the modification and performance forum. I know trans adapters are available for Chrysler Hemis to be connected to just about any transmission, but to me keeping the original push button gear selector is a MUST. Personally I wouldn't worry about losing the parking brake drum from my TorqueFlite (I have a '56 Imperial Coupe by the way) as I have a newer Mopar 8 3/4 rear with E brake provisions, so I'm curious if any one here has modified their push button controls to work with a GM 700R4, Mopar A518 TorqueFlite, or Ford AOD transmission? If so, how difficult was it? What kind of car was it? Any issues that resulted? Any info on this kind of swap would be greatly appreciated.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57plymouth
Posted 2010-10-05 3:51 PM (#244318 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert

Posts: 3426
2000100010010010010025
Location: Blythewood, SC
I know Imperial Services can make your pushbutton shifter work with a non-pushbutton trans.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1959Dodge
Posted 2010-10-05 3:53 PM (#244320 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert

Posts: 2176
2000100252525
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
I was at a car show about a month ago. There was a "ReaL" (according to the owner) 54 Corvette with the latest corvette running gear (engine and transmission). The Tranny as I recall was an LT60, it was all eletrically/electronically controlled and even had pushputtons (Yep, bushbuttons in the console to control/shift the tranny). I suspects the newer Chrysler/Mopar (actually Merc Benz) are also electronically controlled.
You could use electrical/electronic switches that are engaged by the current pushbuttons to control the tranny, albeit only 3 forward speed control instead of the 5 (alto there are ways to get around that too).

I do have personal experience as far as converting that parking brake from the tranny to the rear brake drums.
My 59 Vert also has a more modern rear end (69 Roadrunner), I was able to buy the cables and a car shop I use was able to add mounts, a swing arm, etc etc in order to make the "conversion" work. My friend Aivar was concerned that it would take a lot more pull to set the brake as it has to pull in the rear drums, but if anything , it takes less effort but if one has "Weak arms" or whatever then step on the brake pedal first and then pull the parking brake handle--almost no pull needed atoll--but not really necessary to do that.
The parking brake works great now, and i'm far more confident that the car will be where I last parked it, than was I with that old parking brake system and in fact, (in my case) it was a "parking break" as it busted time after time!!!
Good luck with your project--it is certainly do-able!

Gary

Edited by 1959Dodge 2010-10-05 3:56 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57plymouth
Posted 2010-10-05 6:03 PM (#244343 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert

Posts: 3426
2000100010010010010025
Location: Blythewood, SC
What I meant was that if you get your factory shifter converted to work with a 904 or 727, it will also work for a 500 or 518 which are overdrive transmissions.

Modern GM and Chrysler transmissions are electrically controlled, so the shifter is basically a switch.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2010-10-05 7:31 PM (#244353 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Here's what Imperial Services had to say:

"We've dipped our toe in that water (700R4/AOD) but never finished anything up. We can shift a 66-later 727/518 (R-N-D-2-1) with your pushbuttons, but can't accommodate the park function on these early cars. The cable kit for the TorqueFlite is $180 plus shipping. It's just a bolt-in, with the exception of one spring that MUST be changed in the valve body (manual valve detent spring). You can order IS-355 directly from the C-Body page (no online ordering on the Imperial page... maybe this winter!). http://www.imperialservices.net/Imperial%20Services%20-%20C-Body%20...

There is a company that makes an electronic shift setup http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/smart-shift/smart-shift-stand... , and we make a billet aluminum switch package that bolts to the back of the pushbutton shifter to go with it. Total investment is around $1500, but you do have the park function, and some fairly slick accessories."
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dukeboy
Posted 2010-10-05 9:43 PM (#244372 - in reply to #244353)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6204
50001000100100
Location: Big pimpin'
Holy moly..$1500.00 for buttons....Hmmm.....I wonder if there's a cheaper, more "Junkyard" way of doing this? I almost had a prototype made up using the original shifter pod and cable, but used a solenoid on the trans and limit switches. (Don't ask me, as the guy I had wiring up all this stuff was an engineer and needed a pet project, but has since gone back to work and hasn't had time to fool with it)...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
B/G 61
Posted 2010-10-05 9:47 PM (#244374 - in reply to #244372)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert

Posts: 2613
2000500100
Location: Parts Unknown
dukeboy - 2010-10-05 9:43 PM

Holy moly..$1500.00 for buttons....Hmmm.....I wonder if there's a cheaper, more "Junkyard" way of doing this?



Yea man, 15hun is nuts - GOTTA be a cheaper way . . . (I would think )



Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-10-06 1:01 AM (#244388 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1062
10002525
Location: STL, MO
I have a 518 in my 58 Ply, My solution was to s-can the pushbutton quadrant, ship the gold button Fury setup I aquired off to a "purist" friend of mine and put a Winters shifter in it. Not correct but I am not giving up park, as for the empty space on the dash? Fabbed up a plate and that's where the o/d button is going. Still a pushbutton trans.... sort of.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2010-10-06 9:28 AM (#244422 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Sounds like I can enjoy a 518 trans in my car (eventually) since I have the emergency brake rear brakes though. $1500 on top of buying and most likely rebuilding a 518 and adapter kit it a bit much.

Handygun, am I reading correctly that you have a 65 Coronet with a Cummins in it? I'd love to see that!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-10-06 10:05 AM (#244432 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1062
10002525
Location: STL, MO
triple nickel
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rodger
Posted 2010-10-06 12:07 PM (#244456 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Expert

Posts: 1506
1000500
Location: Colo Spgs
Jon

The 1 of 2,090 made C-73 Imperials that you have came with a 3.54:1 Rear Axle Gear
Ratio with 8.20 x 15's. If you change to a Over-Drive Transmission with a vehicle that
has a rolling weight of 5,000 pounds you may also think of changing your Rear Axle
Ratio to something of a better number so the engine does not react as if it is always
pulling a long hill, going into the wind or a little of both when you en-gage the O/D.

With the gears of 3.54 and your tyre diameter, what engine speed are you turning
at 75 MPH with no O/D ? Now compute the same with the O/D en-gaged. What
is the O/D en-gaged engine speed at 75 MPH ?



Rodger & Gabby
COS
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dukeboy
Posted 2010-10-06 12:51 PM (#244463 - in reply to #244456)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6204
50001000100100
Location: Big pimpin'
That would depend on how much of an O/D ratio is in the trans..Every one is a little different..I know with the T-5 Mustang GT trans in the General Lee, which is .68 in O/D, @75 MPH with 3.23 gear it cuts 'em back to 2.70 gear..
About a full 700-800 RPM drop in O/D..If the vehicle with 3.23 gear with a 1 to 1 trans in high is turning 2600 RPM's @60 MPH, the .68 will allow it to run @88 MPH @ the same 2600 RPM's...However, one must remember that with lower engine speeds, the driveshaft speed increases Drastically..I've seen Speeds in excess of 10K RPM at WOT/top speed...

Edited by dukeboy 2010-10-06 12:54 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-10-06 12:58 PM (#244466 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1062
10002525
Location: STL, MO
FWIW vans and trucks that these trannys came out of have a similar if not larger tire, worse c/d,less power, equal wt, and 3.54 was a common r&p. I understand your concern but I think it's a non issue on a mild cam,low stall, dual plane combo.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2010-10-06 1:33 PM (#244478 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Imperials in '56 came with 3.07 gears for cars in flatter regions (like my midwestern Imperial) or 3.36 gears in hilly and mountainous regions. Mine originally came with 3.07s and I currently have a 3.23 carrier. If I went to the A518 TorqueFlite, which has an overdrive ratio of 0.69, I would then change my rear gears to either 3.73 or 4.10. That way I would have the best in low end grunt and highway economy. My '98 Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4x4 has 3.55 gears with the same 0.69 ratio overdrive transmission and it has no problem in overdrive at any speed and that ram is heavier and less powerful than the Imperial will be.

By the way, were the A518 in 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive trucks the same? I know my A518 in my Ram is married to the T case so I assumed I would want a 2 wheel drive A518. I know the old 727 TFs came in a longer 2wd version and a shorter 4wd version, not sure if the A518s are the same?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57plymouth
Posted 2010-10-06 3:15 PM (#244495 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert

Posts: 3426
2000100010010010010025
Location: Blythewood, SC
It's not worth the effort to find a 2wd tail housing to convert a 4wd. Just get a 2wd transmission out of a full size truck or van.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rodger
Posted 2010-10-06 5:43 PM (#244526 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Expert

Posts: 1506
1000500
Location: Colo Spgs
Jon

Page 16 of the 1956 Imperial Factory Service Manual matches information
from http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1956/index.htm on the 3.54:1 Rear
Axle Ratio. After looking at the above information, I will say that you have
a unique optioned Imperial ( only the Chrysler Division did offered the 3.36:1
ratio when the New Yorker had the Power-Flite ).

In answer to your A518 ponderings.
The A-518 was offered from 1988 to 1990'ish in a 2 wheel version and a 4 wheel
version. Both versions have the same final drive ration in O/D or with the
transmission with O/D off.

Around here the A-518 Torque-Flite is $175 at the pick & pulls.



Rodger & Gabby
COS
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2010-10-07 6:11 PM (#244656 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Rodger, your comments led me to find a contradiction in the 1956 factory service manual. On page 4-Introduction, the FSM lists 3.36 gears for all C-73 Imperial models. On that same page it lists either 3.07*-3.36 for New Yorker and Deluxe models (the * being the note for cars sold "in some regions with flat terrain"). My guess would be the original buyer of my Imperial requested the gears be switched at the dealer.

On page 16-Rear Axle, the FSM then lists 3.54 with PowerFlite transmission for all C-73 Imperials. I have a late '56 production Imperial so I have a TorqueFlite and I couldn't find any more information for gear ratios in cars with TFs. Can any one clear this up?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rodger
Posted 2010-10-07 10:17 PM (#244714 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Expert

Posts: 1506
1000500
Location: Colo Spgs
Jon

I agree with you about page 16 of the FSM. They must of did some jugging
of thoughts and etc for on page 4 of the issue of FSM that I have, they have
the C-73 Imperials with the Power-Flites using only the 3.36:1 Gears.

The 1957 and 1958 Imperial Data does state the Rear Axle Gears are different.
Also take note the 1957's went to 14 inch wheels as part of the Corperate Mandate
to lower the entire Corperation Roof Height.

*******************************************************************
This is a Bill Watson type of thing.
*******************************************************************



Rodger & Gabby
COS
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2010-10-22 10:11 PM (#246658 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Just picked up a A518 TorqueFlite from a '95 Dodge 3/4 ton van on the cheap, might make this over drive thing a reality right away. Any one have any 3.73 or 3.91 gears for a mopar 8 and 3/4 rear end?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-10-23 10:47 AM (#246703 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1062
10002525
Location: STL, MO
I think that one relies heavily on the computer, there is a thread on Moparts right now on making a 518 work through vacuum switches in the 4x4-truck section
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2010-10-23 1:33 PM (#246723 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Yes, they can be converted to run off pressure switches. Check this link out.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/SwapInformation.htm
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-10-23 5:12 PM (#246749 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1062
10002525
Location: STL, MO
Yeah read it awhile back, I am going to try running just the elec hookup and engage o/d when I need it if that will work, if I wanted a vacuum tranny I would have put a hydramatic in it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Handygun
Posted 2010-10-23 5:13 PM (#246750 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1062
10002525
Location: STL, MO
Yeah read it awhile back, I am going to try running just the elec hookup and engage o/d when I need it if that will work, if I wanted a vacuum tranny I would have put a hydramatic in it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2017-10-02 11:00 PM (#549649 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Hard to believe I've already been sitting on my transmission A518/46RH for 7 years and haven't touched it. Been on my mind lately as both cars are currently out of the house and I need to stay busy. Just drained the fluid and it looks like there was a little water mixed in with the fluid as it drained out. Not a lot, but I'm concerned. I've had this thing stored inside since I bought it, so the water has been in there a while. Hopefully it was just sitting on the bottom of the pan not hurting anything. I did remove the speed gear and looked inside, what I could see was very clean and corrosion free. I have 2.76 gears for the Imperial, so that is kind of like having OD on all the time. I will probably, for now, just look into whether or not this trans is even worth rebuilding. If so, I will do it when time permits. Then, should I ever run into trouble with the original TorqueFlite, I will perform the swap.

I should point out that since starting this thread 7 years ago that retrotekspeed.com doesn't exist any more, nor does their $1500 conversion kit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2017-10-04 11:08 PM (#549792 - in reply to #549649)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
I removed the extension housing to have a look inside of my 46RH (A-518). So far everything looks ok despite small amounts of water visible in the fluid. Hopefully everything in the main case is ok as well. This is a "3 post plug" version, meaning is also has a lockup torque converter.



(thumb_IMG_2227_1024.jpg)



(thumb_IMG_2237_1024.jpg)



(thumb_IMG_2239_1024.jpg)



(thumb_IMG_2238_1024.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments thumb_IMG_2227_1024.jpg (219KB - 25 downloads)
Attachments thumb_IMG_2237_1024.jpg (218KB - 22 downloads)
Attachments thumb_IMG_2239_1024.jpg (174KB - 22 downloads)
Attachments thumb_IMG_2238_1024.jpg (229KB - 25 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
51coronet
Posted 2017-10-05 8:08 PM (#549844 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans


Veteran

Posts: 218
100100
I have one like your sitting waiting to be rebuilt and installed. http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/Push-Button-Conversion-Cable-Set...

looks like A&A has a kit to install tem and retain pushbuttons. The problem with the old torqueflites is there aren't replacement torque converters for them. That 46rh can be built up nice and stout with many available levels of performance and torque converters plus PATC has a kit to auto control the lockup that way you don't worry about it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
jboymechanic
Posted 2017-10-06 8:23 AM (#549879 - in reply to #244313)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1069
10002525
Location: Muskego, WI
I know exactly what you mean about the torque converters for the original TF trans. They can be found, but very expensive.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57chizler
Posted 2017-10-06 3:57 PM (#549895 - in reply to #549844)
Subject: Re: Factory Push Button Trans Control to Modern Over Drive Trans



Expert

Posts: 2781
2000500100100252525
Location: NorCal
51coronet - 2017-10-05 5:08 PM
looks like A&A has a kit to install tem and retain pushbuttons.


Same kit as mentioned in reply #2 above. Several vendors offer the Imperial Services kit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

Search for anything on eBay!

(Delete all cookies set by this site)